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Re: [TalkAntietam] Re: G.A.R. Reno Post #4 Hagerstown

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  • Stephen Recker
    Da ohhh. I meant to say Hayward covers. Stephen
    Message 1 of 24 , Aug 24, 2007
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      Da'ohhh. I meant to say Hayward covers.

      Stephen

      On Friday, August 24, 2007, at 08:08 PM, Scott Hann wrote:

      > I didn't know Gettysburg College had the George Batchelder covers.
    • Stephen Recker
      I contacted the Masonic Temple here in Hagerstown to see if they have any photos of the Masonic Lodge Hall where Reno Post #4 met. No such luck. Here is the
      Message 2 of 24 , Aug 24, 2007
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        I contacted the Masonic Temple here in Hagerstown to see if they have
        any photos of the Masonic Lodge Hall where Reno Post #4 met. No such
        luck. Here is the reply:

        //////////////////////////////////////////////
        In 1822 Mt. Moriah Lodge (Chartered in 1802) joined with the City to
        build a
        combined Market House and Masonic Temple - the site of the present City
        Hall
        at Franklin and Potomac. Mt. Moriah Lodge ceased to exist in 1831.

        Friendship Lodge was Chartered on May 22, 1827 and met at homes in
        Hagerstown and Williamsport until they found a more permanent site in
        1858.
        From July 1858 to April 1, 1888 Friendship Lodge met in the "new
        building"
        at the southeast corner of Public Square. Friendship Lodge then built
        our
        current Temple in 1898 and dedicated it on March 8, 1899, where we have
        been
        ever since.

        We have no pictures of anything prior to the dedication of the current
        Masonic Temple on March 8, 1899.

        If you find anything like that I would be very interested in getting a
        copy.

        Terry Smith, Secretary
        Friendship Lodge No. 84

        ///////////////////////////////////////////////

        This does tell us that the hall was not available for lease until, at
        the earliest, March 1899.

        Stephen
      • Ronald Church
        I have heard it on several occasions that as French s lead brigade (Weber s) approached the Sunken Road they did so with uncapped muskets. Is this true? Ron
        Message 3 of 24 , Aug 31, 2007
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          I have heard it on several occasions that as French's lead brigade
          (Weber's) approached the Sunken Road they did so with uncapped muskets.
          Is this true?

          Ron Church
          Manchester Md
        • G E Mayers
          Ron, I have read that in several sources also. I think that, if you are dealing with a new unit, it might be best to have them load but not cap... As a
          Message 4 of 24 , Aug 31, 2007
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            Ron,

            I have read that in several sources also. I think that, if you
            are dealing with a new unit, it might be best to have them load
            but not cap... As a reenactor who once did infantry, there were
            occasions were my unit was told to load but not cap....

            Yr. Obt. Svt.
            G E "Gerry" Mayers

            To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
            on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
            Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from
            the Almighty God. --Anonymous
            ----- Original Message -----
            From: "Ronald Church" <rchurch@...>
            To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Friday, August 31, 2007 2:31 PM
            Subject: [TalkAntietam] Uncapped muskets?


            >I have heard it on several occasions that as French's lead
            >brigade
            > (Weber's) approached the Sunken Road they did so with uncapped
            > muskets.
            > Is this true?
            >
            > Ron Church
            > Manchester Md
            >
            >
          • Ronald Church
            Gerry, The reasoning for not capping in this instance is understandable 1. These were green troops who, at first hostile file, might pull trigger and break
            Message 5 of 24 , Aug 31, 2007
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              Gerry,

              The reasoning for not capping in this instance is understandable
              1. These were green troops who, at first hostile file, might pull
              trigger and break for the rear .... or the nearest cover, and
              2. Since their destination was on the left of Tyndale up near the
              VC they still had some ground to cover (or so they thought) before
              running into Confederates.

              So it makes sense that they might not have capped their weapons as they
              approached the Sunken Road, but I've not been able find confirmation of it.

              Ron Church

              G E Mayers wrote:
              > Ron,
              >
              > I have read that in several sources also. I think that, if you
              > are dealing with a new unit, it might be best to have them load
              > but not cap... As a reenactor who once did infantry, there were
              > occasions were my unit was told to load but not cap....
              >
              > Yr. Obt. Svt.
              > G E "Gerry" Mayers
              >
              > To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
              > on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
              > Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from
              > the Almighty God. --Anonymous
              > ----- Original Message -----
              > From: "Ronald Church" <rchurch@...>
              > To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
              > Sent: Friday, August 31, 2007 2:31 PM
              > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Uncapped muskets?
              >
              >
              >
              >> I have heard it on several occasions that as French's lead
              >> brigade
              >> (Weber's) approached the Sunken Road they did so with uncapped
              >> muskets.
              >> Is this true?
              >>
              >> Ron Church
              >> Manchester Md
              >>
              >>
              >>
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > Yahoo! Groups Links
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > .
              >
              >
            • joseph_pierro
              ... muskets. ... Carman gives a rather detailed account of the fight made by Weber s brigade (I can send you the particular passage if you wish), but he
              Message 6 of 24 , Aug 31, 2007
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                --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, Ronald Church <rchurch@...> wrote:
                >
                > I have heard it on several occasions that as French's lead brigade
                > (Weber's) approached the Sunken Road they did so with uncapped
                muskets.
                > Is this true?
                >
                > Ron Church
                > Manchester Md
                >
                Carman gives a rather detailed account of the fight made by Weber's
                brigade (I can send you the particular passage if you wish), but he
                doesn't mention their muskets being uncapped.

                It was a well drilled brigade, but new to combat. As others have
                remarked, it would not be unique in a unit like that for weapons to
                have been kept uncapped in the advance in order to maintain fire
                discipline.

                --jake
              • richard@rcroker.com
                At Fredericksburg, Gen Humphries ordered his men to make the infamaous assault up Marye s Heights with unloaded weapons. Noy only uncapped, but unloaded.
                Message 7 of 24 , Sep 1, 2007
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                  At Fredericksburg, Gen Humphries ordered his men to make the infamaous assault up Marye's Heights with unloaded weapons. Noy only uncapped, but unloaded. This on the advice of Gen. Hooker. The logic was that no one should stop to fire. He even had an inspection to make certain no one had a loaded weapon. His men climbed those heights basically armed with spears.
                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: joseph_pierro
                  To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Friday, August 31, 2007 11:34 PM
                  Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Uncapped muskets?


                  --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, Ronald Church <rchurch@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > I have heard it on several occasions that as French's lead brigade
                  > (Weber's) approached the Sunken Road they did so with uncapped
                  muskets.
                  > Is this true?
                  >
                  > Ron Church
                  > Manchester Md
                  >
                  Carman gives a rather detailed account of the fight made by Weber's
                  brigade (I can send you the particular passage if you wish), but he
                  doesn't mention their muskets being uncapped.

                  It was a well drilled brigade, but new to combat. As others have
                  remarked, it would not be unique in a unit like that for weapons to
                  have been kept uncapped in the advance in order to maintain fire
                  discipline.

                  --jake





                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Scott Hann
                  There s a story about a 1st Corps regiment or brigade going into action at Gettysburg on the First Day with unloaded weapons. The men in the ranks reminded
                  Message 8 of 24 , Sep 1, 2007
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                    There's a story about a 1st Corps regiment or brigade going into
                    action at Gettysburg on the First Day with unloaded weapons. The
                    men in the ranks reminded the officers to give the order to load
                    their muskets.



                    --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, <richard@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > At Fredericksburg, Gen Humphries ordered his men to make the
                    infamaous assault up Marye's Heights with unloaded weapons. Noy
                    only uncapped, but unloaded. This on the advice of Gen. Hooker.
                    The logic was that no one should stop to fire. He even had an
                    inspection to make certain no one had a loaded weapon. His men
                    climbed those heights basically armed with spears.
                    > ----- Original Message -----
                    > From: joseph_pierro
                    > To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                    > Sent: Friday, August 31, 2007 11:34 PM
                    > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Uncapped muskets?
                    >
                    >
                    > --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, Ronald Church <rchurch@>
                    wrote:
                    > >
                    > > I have heard it on several occasions that as French's lead
                    brigade
                    > > (Weber's) approached the Sunken Road they did so with uncapped
                    > muskets.
                    > > Is this true?
                    > >
                    > > Ron Church
                    > > Manchester Md
                    > >
                    > Carman gives a rather detailed account of the fight made by
                    Weber's
                    > brigade (I can send you the particular passage if you wish), but
                    he
                    > doesn't mention their muskets being uncapped.
                    >
                    > It was a well drilled brigade, but new to combat. As others have
                    > remarked, it would not be unique in a unit like that for weapons
                    to
                    > have been kept uncapped in the advance in order to maintain fire
                    > discipline.
                    >
                    > --jake
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >
                  • Joseph Pierro
                    Again, that s not unheard of on either side. If the intention is a bayonet charge, and your concern is getting your attacking force to cover the distance in
                    Message 9 of 24 , Sep 1, 2007
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                      Again, that's not unheard of on either side. If the intention is a bayonet charge, and your concern is getting your attacking force to cover the distance in the shortest time possible, the only way to guarantee that they'll cross the space is to send them in with an unloaded weapon. (Even the most disciplined soldier, when charging under fire, will stop to return it--if he has a loaded weapon. It's human nature.)

                      I've come across one Confederate account from the Seven Days fighting that describes his regiment being forced to "ring our muskets"--dropping the rammer down the barrel of the weapon in the presence of an officer or NCO so that he could hear the "ring" of it striking the empty bottom (as opposed to the dull thud of it striking a ball and wadding).



                      ----- Original Message ----
                      From: "richard@..." <richard@...>
                      To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Saturday, September 1, 2007 9:35:24 AM
                      Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Re: Uncapped muskets?

                      At Fredericksburg, Gen Humphries ordered his men to make the infamaous assault up Marye's Heights with unloaded weapons. Noy only uncapped, but unloaded. This on the advice of Gen. Hooker. The logic was that no one should stop to fire. He even had an inspection to make certain no one had a loaded weapon. His men climbed those heights basically armed with spears.
                      ----- Original Message -----
                      From: joseph_pierro
                      To: TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com
                      Sent: Friday, August 31, 2007 11:34 PM
                      Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Uncapped muskets?

                      --- In TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com, Ronald Church <rchurch@... > wrote:
                      >
                      > I have heard it on several occasions that as French's lead brigade
                      > (Weber's) approached the Sunken Road they did so with uncapped
                      muskets.
                      > Is this true?
                      >
                      > Ron Church
                      > Manchester Md
                      >
                      Carman gives a rather detailed account of the fight made by Weber's
                      brigade (I can send you the particular passage if you wish), but he
                      doesn't mention their muskets being uncapped.

                      It was a well drilled brigade, but new to combat. As others have
                      remarked, it would not be unique in a unit like that for weapons to
                      have been kept uncapped in the advance in order to maintain fire
                      discipline.

                      --jake

                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                      ____________________________________________________________________________________
                      Luggage? GPS? Comic books?
                      Check out fitting gifts for grads at Yahoo! Search
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                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Stephen Recker
                      The first bayonet charge on Little Round Top was Patrick Henry O Rourke sending, I believe, the 144th NY over the hill onto a bunch of texans. He did not take
                      Message 10 of 24 , Sep 1, 2007
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                        The first bayonet charge on Little Round Top was Patrick Henry O'Rourke
                        sending, I believe, the 144th NY over the hill onto a bunch of texans.
                        He did not take the time to load. It was 'fix bayonets'.

                        Stephen

                        On Saturday, September 1, 2007, at 10:02 AM, Scott Hann wrote:

                        > There's a story about a 1st Corps regiment or brigade going into
                        > action at Gettysburg on the First Day with unloaded weapons. The
                        > men in the ranks reminded the officers to give the order to load
                        > their muskets.
                      • Thomas Clemens
                        Patrick O Rorke s 146 NY, with a contingent of 5th NY Vols. 3-year men recently added. Thomas G. Clemens D.A. Professor of History Hagerstown Community College
                        Message 11 of 24 , Sep 1, 2007
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                          Patrick O'Rorke's 146 NY, with a contingent of 5th NY Vols. 3-year men recently added.


                          Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
                          Professor of History
                          Hagerstown Community College


                          >>> Stephen Recker <recker@...> 09/01/07 5:38 PM >>>
                          The first bayonet charge on Little Round Top was Patrick Henry O'Rourke
                          sending, I believe, the 144th NY over the hill onto a bunch of texans.
                          He did not take the time to load. It was 'fix bayonets'.

                          Stephen

                          On Saturday, September 1, 2007, at 10:02 AM, Scott Hann wrote:

                          > There's a story about a 1st Corps regiment or brigade going into
                          > action at Gettysburg on the First Day with unloaded weapons. The
                          > men in the ranks reminded the officers to give the order to load
                          > their muskets.
                        • G E Mayers
                          Dear Joseph, This ringing or pinging of the gun barrel is even heard today among CW reenactors during safety inspections, thereby insuring a
                          Message 12 of 24 , Sep 3, 2007
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                            Dear Joseph,

                            This "ringing" or "pinging" of the gun barrel is even heard today
                            among CW reenactors during safety inspections, thereby insuring a
                            cleaned/unfouled barrel.

                            I would personally prefer to advance to battle loaded but not
                            capped, if I knew I was going to be using the bayonet.

                            Yr. Obt. Svt.
                            G E "Gerry" Mayers

                            To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
                            on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
                            Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from
                            the Almighty God. --Anonymous
                            ----- Original Message -----
                            From: "Joseph Pierro" <joseph_pierro@...>
                            To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                            Sent: Saturday, September 01, 2007 10:47 AM
                            Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Re: Uncapped muskets?


                            > Again, that's not unheard of on either side. If the intention
                            > is a bayonet charge, and your concern is getting your attacking
                            > force to cover the distance in the shortest time possible, the
                            > only way to guarantee that they'll cross the space is to send
                            > them in with an unloaded weapon. (Even the most disciplined
                            > soldier, when charging under fire, will stop to return it--if
                            > he has a loaded weapon. It's human nature.)
                            >
                            > I've come across one Confederate account from the Seven Days
                            > fighting that describes his regiment being forced to "ring our
                            > muskets"--dropping the rammer down the barrel of the weapon in
                            > the presence of an officer or NCO so that he could hear the
                            > "ring" of it striking the empty bottom (as opposed to the dull
                            > thud of it striking a ball and wadding).
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > ----- Original Message ----
                            > From: "richard@..." <richard@...>
                            > To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                            > Sent: Saturday, September 1, 2007 9:35:24 AM
                            > Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Re: Uncapped muskets?
                            >
                            > At Fredericksburg, Gen Humphries ordered his men to make the
                            > infamaous assault up Marye's Heights with unloaded weapons. Noy
                            > only uncapped, but unloaded. This on the advice of Gen. Hooker.
                            > The logic was that no one should stop to fire. He even had an
                            > inspection to make certain no one had a loaded weapon. His men
                            > climbed those heights basically armed with spears.
                            > ----- Original Message -----
                            > From: joseph_pierro
                            > To: TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com
                            > Sent: Friday, August 31, 2007 11:34 PM
                            > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Uncapped muskets?
                            >
                            > --- In TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com, Ronald Church
                            > <rchurch@... > wrote:
                            >>
                            >> I have heard it on several occasions that as French's lead
                            >> brigade
                            >> (Weber's) approached the Sunken Road they did so with uncapped
                            > muskets.
                            >> Is this true?
                            >>
                            >> Ron Church
                            >> Manchester Md
                            >>
                            > Carman gives a rather detailed account of the fight made by
                            > Weber's
                            > brigade (I can send you the particular passage if you wish),
                            > but he
                            > doesn't mention their muskets being uncapped.
                            >
                            > It was a well drilled brigade, but new to combat. As others
                            > have
                            > remarked, it would not be unique in a unit like that for
                            > weapons to
                            > have been kept uncapped in the advance in order to maintain
                            > fire
                            > discipline.
                            >
                            > --jake
                            >
                            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > ____________________________________________________________________________________
                            > Luggage? GPS? Comic books?
                            > Check out fitting gifts for grads at Yahoo! Search
                            > http://search.yahoo.com/search?fr=oni_on_mail&p=graduation+gifts&cs=bz
                            >
                            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            >
                            >
                          • G E Mayers
                            Dear Stephen, IIRC O Rorke and his men did not have time for much anything else... basically switch right from column into battle line and charge! Yr. Obt.
                            Message 13 of 24 , Sep 3, 2007
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                              Dear Stephen,

                              IIRC O'Rorke and his men did not have time for much anything
                              else... basically switch right from column into battle line and
                              charge!

                              Yr. Obt. Svt.
                              G E "Gerry" Mayers

                              To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
                              on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
                              Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from
                              the Almighty God. --Anonymous
                              ----- Original Message -----
                              From: "Stephen Recker" <recker@...>
                              To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                              Sent: Saturday, September 01, 2007 5:38 PM
                              Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Re: Uncapped muskets?


                              > The first bayonet charge on Little Round Top was Patrick Henry
                              > O'Rourke
                              > sending, I believe, the 144th NY over the hill onto a bunch of
                              > texans.
                              > He did not take the time to load. It was 'fix bayonets'.
                              >
                              > Stephen
                              >
                              > On Saturday, September 1, 2007, at 10:02 AM, Scott Hann wrote:
                              >
                              >> There's a story about a 1st Corps regiment or brigade going
                              >> into
                              >> action at Gettysburg on the First Day with unloaded weapons.
                              >> The
                              >> men in the ranks reminded the officers to give the order to
                              >> load
                              >> their muskets.
                              >
                              >
                            • Joseph Pierro
                              That, Gerry, is a universal feeling among infantrymen--hence the added precaution (form an officer s pov) of ordering the weapons to be carried unloaded. A
                              Message 14 of 24 , Sep 3, 2007
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                                That, Gerry, is a universal feeling among infantrymen--hence the added precaution (form an officer's pov) of ordering the weapons to be carried unloaded. A solider is much more likely to disobey orders, halt his charge and cap a previously loaded weapon than he will to stop and run through the entire loading sequence.

                                I remember when I was in Basic Training many years ago and my platoon was receiving a block of instruction on the use of the bayonet, at the end of which the drill sergeant told us that if our bayonet ever became stuck in the enemy's ribcage, it could be dislodged by firing a round from our weapons.

                                To which I politely retorted that if my weapon still had a round in it, the bayonet would not be entering the ******* equation.

                                I imagine 19th century soldiers were as practical-minded as I--orders to the contrary notwithstanding. :)

                                --jake


                                ----- Original Message ----
                                From: G E Mayers <gerry1952@...>
                                To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                                Sent: Monday, September 3, 2007 6:57:53 PM
                                Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Re: Uncapped muskets?

                                Dear Joseph,

                                This "ringing" or "pinging" of the gun barrel is even heard today
                                among CW reenactors during safety inspections, thereby insuring a
                                cleaned/unfouled barrel.

                                I would personally prefer to advance to battle loaded but not
                                capped, if I knew I was going to be using the bayonet.

                                Yr. Obt. Svt.
                                G E "Gerry" Mayers

                                To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
                                on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
                                Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from
                                the Almighty God. --Anonymous
                                ----- Original Message -----
                                From: "Joseph Pierro" <joseph_pierro@ yahoo.com>
                                To: <TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com>
                                Sent: Saturday, September 01, 2007 10:47 AM
                                Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Re: Uncapped muskets?

                                > Again, that's not unheard of on either side. If the intention
                                > is a bayonet charge, and your concern is getting your attacking
                                > force to cover the distance in the shortest time possible, the
                                > only way to guarantee that they'll cross the space is to send
                                > them in with an unloaded weapon. (Even the most disciplined
                                > soldier, when charging under fire, will stop to return it--if
                                > he has a loaded weapon. It's human nature.)
                                >
                                > I've come across one Confederate account from the Seven Days
                                > fighting that describes his regiment being forced to "ring our
                                > muskets"--dropping the rammer down the barrel of the weapon in
                                > the presence of an officer or NCO so that he could hear the
                                > "ring" of it striking the empty bottom (as opposed to the dull
                                > thud of it striking a ball and wadding).
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > ----- Original Message ----
                                > From: "richard@rcroker. com" <richard@rcroker. com>
                                > To: TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com
                                > Sent: Saturday, September 1, 2007 9:35:24 AM
                                > Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Re: Uncapped muskets?
                                >
                                > At Fredericksburg, Gen Humphries ordered his men to make the
                                > infamaous assault up Marye's Heights with unloaded weapons. Noy
                                > only uncapped, but unloaded. This on the advice of Gen. Hooker.
                                > The logic was that no one should stop to fire. He even had an
                                > inspection to make certain no one had a loaded weapon. His men
                                > climbed those heights basically armed with spears.
                                > ----- Original Message -----
                                > From: joseph_pierro
                                > To: TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com
                                > Sent: Friday, August 31, 2007 11:34 PM
                                > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Uncapped muskets?
                                >
                                > --- In TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com, Ronald Church
                                > <rchurch@... > wrote:
                                >>
                                >> I have heard it on several occasions that as French's lead
                                >> brigade
                                >> (Weber's) approached the Sunken Road they did so with uncapped
                                > muskets.
                                >> Is this true?
                                >>
                                >> Ron Church
                                >> Manchester Md
                                >>
                                > Carman gives a rather detailed account of the fight made by
                                > Weber's
                                > brigade (I can send you the particular passage if you wish),
                                > but he
                                > doesn't mention their muskets being uncapped.
                                >
                                > It was a well drilled brigade, but new to combat. As others
                                > have
                                > remarked, it would not be unique in a unit like that for
                                > weapons to
                                > have been kept uncapped in the advance in order to maintain
                                > fire
                                > discipline.
                                >
                                > --jake
                                >
                                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
                                > Luggage? GPS? Comic books?
                                > Check out fitting gifts for grads at Yahoo! Search
                                > http://search. yahoo.com/ search?fr= oni_on_mail& p=graduation+ gifts&cs= bz
                                >
                                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                >
                                >





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