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Re: [TalkAntietam] Re: G.A.R. Reno Post #4 Hagerstown

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  • Thomas Clemens
    Which reminds me Steve, Washington County Historical Society needs new members. I ll get you a form the next time I see you. :-) Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
    Message 1 of 24 , Aug 24, 2007
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      Which reminds me Steve, Washington County Historical Society needs new
      members. I'll get you a form the next time I see you. :-)


      Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
      Professor of History
      Hagerstown Community College


      >>> Stephen Recker <recker@...> 08/24/07 3:44 PM >>>
      Scott,

      Well, no pictures of the relics in the hall, but a few more clues.

      I went to the City Planning office at Hagerstown City Hall on the site
      of the old Town Market where G.A.R. Reno Post #4 used to meet. I ran
      into Stephen Bockmiller, esteemed member of this board, and he told me
      that they don't have any pictures of the old hall. He even checked
      around for boxes of old stuff, but to no avail.

      Stephen then directed me to the City Clerk. Here I found something
      interesting. Besides the fact that famed Antietam photographer B.W.T.
      Phreaner refused to pave his sidewalk in 1904, even to the point of the
      case being referred to the Police, there is a city council record from
      March 2, 1905 saying that it needs to be discerned whether the G.A.R.
      boys are going to renew their lease that expires in April 1905. Now,
      the lease I have states that the lease of the space started in 1905. I
      looked back a few years and couldn't find anything, so it is unclear
      when they first occupied the space.

      Just outside the clerk's office, though, are a bunch of old portraits
      of city officials taken around 1910. My guess is that they were taken
      in the old city hall, perhaps even in the Masonic Lodge Room. BTW, that
      is the name of the room they rented - the Masonic Lodge Room. There are
      some cool curtains, but no relic cases.

      Then I went to the Washington County Historical Society. The have some
      great photos of the outside of the old hall. It was built in 1822. The
      top was changed in 1888. Then it was torn down in 1939. The pictures
      are great. I'll send them on.

      Stephen
    • Stephen Recker
      Tom, When I was down there I saw you were on the board, so I filled out my form. Thanks for the nudge! Stephen
      Message 2 of 24 , Aug 24, 2007
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        Tom,

        When I was down there I saw you were on the board, so I filled out my
        form. Thanks for the nudge!

        Stephen


        On Friday, August 24, 2007, at 06:21 PM, Thomas Clemens wrote:

        > Which reminds me Steve, Washington County Historical Society needs new
        > members. I'll get you a form the next time I see you. :-)
        >
      • Stephen Recker
        Sounds like a road trip. I ve still got to get up to Gettysburg College and see those George Batchelder covers. Stephen
        Message 3 of 24 , Aug 24, 2007
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          Sounds like a road trip. I've still got to get up to Gettysburg College
          and see those George Batchelder covers.

          Stephen

          On Friday, August 24, 2007, at 04:36 PM, Scott Hann wrote:

          > Again I owe you big time. According the the website at the USMHI there
          > is an envelope containing information about this Post, whereas they
          > have
          > box(es) of information about other Posts. The next time I get over to
          > Carlisle I'll have to photocopy the information.
          >
        • Scott Hann
          I didn t know Gettysburg College had the George Batchelder covers. One of these days I have to take a trip to the college library to see the letters of Adj.
          Message 4 of 24 , Aug 24, 2007
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            I didn't know Gettysburg College had the George Batchelder covers.
            One of these days I have to take a trip to the college library to
            see the letters of Adj. Henry P. Clare of the 83rd NY. His
            eyewitness account of Pickett's Charge has been published, but I'm
            more anxious to see what he wrote about Antietam. I have a CDV of
            him, which is part of the reason why I'm interested.


            --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, Stephen Recker <recker@...>
            wrote:
            >
            > Sounds like a road trip. I've still got to get up to Gettysburg
            College
            > and see those George Batchelder covers.
            >
            > Stephen
            >
            > On Friday, August 24, 2007, at 04:36 PM, Scott Hann wrote:
            >
            > > Again I owe you big time. According the the website at the USMHI
            there
            > > is an envelope containing information about this Post, whereas
            they
            > > have
            > > box(es) of information about other Posts. The next time I get
            over to
            > > Carlisle I'll have to photocopy the information.
            > >
            >
          • Stephen Recker
            Da ohhh. I meant to say Hayward covers. Stephen
            Message 5 of 24 , Aug 24, 2007
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              Da'ohhh. I meant to say Hayward covers.

              Stephen

              On Friday, August 24, 2007, at 08:08 PM, Scott Hann wrote:

              > I didn't know Gettysburg College had the George Batchelder covers.
            • Stephen Recker
              I contacted the Masonic Temple here in Hagerstown to see if they have any photos of the Masonic Lodge Hall where Reno Post #4 met. No such luck. Here is the
              Message 6 of 24 , Aug 24, 2007
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                I contacted the Masonic Temple here in Hagerstown to see if they have
                any photos of the Masonic Lodge Hall where Reno Post #4 met. No such
                luck. Here is the reply:

                //////////////////////////////////////////////
                In 1822 Mt. Moriah Lodge (Chartered in 1802) joined with the City to
                build a
                combined Market House and Masonic Temple - the site of the present City
                Hall
                at Franklin and Potomac. Mt. Moriah Lodge ceased to exist in 1831.

                Friendship Lodge was Chartered on May 22, 1827 and met at homes in
                Hagerstown and Williamsport until they found a more permanent site in
                1858.
                From July 1858 to April 1, 1888 Friendship Lodge met in the "new
                building"
                at the southeast corner of Public Square. Friendship Lodge then built
                our
                current Temple in 1898 and dedicated it on March 8, 1899, where we have
                been
                ever since.

                We have no pictures of anything prior to the dedication of the current
                Masonic Temple on March 8, 1899.

                If you find anything like that I would be very interested in getting a
                copy.

                Terry Smith, Secretary
                Friendship Lodge No. 84

                ///////////////////////////////////////////////

                This does tell us that the hall was not available for lease until, at
                the earliest, March 1899.

                Stephen
              • Ronald Church
                I have heard it on several occasions that as French s lead brigade (Weber s) approached the Sunken Road they did so with uncapped muskets. Is this true? Ron
                Message 7 of 24 , Aug 31, 2007
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                  I have heard it on several occasions that as French's lead brigade
                  (Weber's) approached the Sunken Road they did so with uncapped muskets.
                  Is this true?

                  Ron Church
                  Manchester Md
                • G E Mayers
                  Ron, I have read that in several sources also. I think that, if you are dealing with a new unit, it might be best to have them load but not cap... As a
                  Message 8 of 24 , Aug 31, 2007
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                    Ron,

                    I have read that in several sources also. I think that, if you
                    are dealing with a new unit, it might be best to have them load
                    but not cap... As a reenactor who once did infantry, there were
                    occasions were my unit was told to load but not cap....

                    Yr. Obt. Svt.
                    G E "Gerry" Mayers

                    To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
                    on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
                    Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from
                    the Almighty God. --Anonymous
                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: "Ronald Church" <rchurch@...>
                    To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                    Sent: Friday, August 31, 2007 2:31 PM
                    Subject: [TalkAntietam] Uncapped muskets?


                    >I have heard it on several occasions that as French's lead
                    >brigade
                    > (Weber's) approached the Sunken Road they did so with uncapped
                    > muskets.
                    > Is this true?
                    >
                    > Ron Church
                    > Manchester Md
                    >
                    >
                  • Ronald Church
                    Gerry, The reasoning for not capping in this instance is understandable 1. These were green troops who, at first hostile file, might pull trigger and break
                    Message 9 of 24 , Aug 31, 2007
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                      Gerry,

                      The reasoning for not capping in this instance is understandable
                      1. These were green troops who, at first hostile file, might pull
                      trigger and break for the rear .... or the nearest cover, and
                      2. Since their destination was on the left of Tyndale up near the
                      VC they still had some ground to cover (or so they thought) before
                      running into Confederates.

                      So it makes sense that they might not have capped their weapons as they
                      approached the Sunken Road, but I've not been able find confirmation of it.

                      Ron Church

                      G E Mayers wrote:
                      > Ron,
                      >
                      > I have read that in several sources also. I think that, if you
                      > are dealing with a new unit, it might be best to have them load
                      > but not cap... As a reenactor who once did infantry, there were
                      > occasions were my unit was told to load but not cap....
                      >
                      > Yr. Obt. Svt.
                      > G E "Gerry" Mayers
                      >
                      > To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
                      > on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
                      > Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from
                      > the Almighty God. --Anonymous
                      > ----- Original Message -----
                      > From: "Ronald Church" <rchurch@...>
                      > To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                      > Sent: Friday, August 31, 2007 2:31 PM
                      > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Uncapped muskets?
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >> I have heard it on several occasions that as French's lead
                      >> brigade
                      >> (Weber's) approached the Sunken Road they did so with uncapped
                      >> muskets.
                      >> Is this true?
                      >>
                      >> Ron Church
                      >> Manchester Md
                      >>
                      >>
                      >>
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Yahoo! Groups Links
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > .
                      >
                      >
                    • joseph_pierro
                      ... muskets. ... Carman gives a rather detailed account of the fight made by Weber s brigade (I can send you the particular passage if you wish), but he
                      Message 10 of 24 , Aug 31, 2007
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                        --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, Ronald Church <rchurch@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > I have heard it on several occasions that as French's lead brigade
                        > (Weber's) approached the Sunken Road they did so with uncapped
                        muskets.
                        > Is this true?
                        >
                        > Ron Church
                        > Manchester Md
                        >
                        Carman gives a rather detailed account of the fight made by Weber's
                        brigade (I can send you the particular passage if you wish), but he
                        doesn't mention their muskets being uncapped.

                        It was a well drilled brigade, but new to combat. As others have
                        remarked, it would not be unique in a unit like that for weapons to
                        have been kept uncapped in the advance in order to maintain fire
                        discipline.

                        --jake
                      • richard@rcroker.com
                        At Fredericksburg, Gen Humphries ordered his men to make the infamaous assault up Marye s Heights with unloaded weapons. Noy only uncapped, but unloaded.
                        Message 11 of 24 , Sep 1, 2007
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                          At Fredericksburg, Gen Humphries ordered his men to make the infamaous assault up Marye's Heights with unloaded weapons. Noy only uncapped, but unloaded. This on the advice of Gen. Hooker. The logic was that no one should stop to fire. He even had an inspection to make certain no one had a loaded weapon. His men climbed those heights basically armed with spears.
                          ----- Original Message -----
                          From: joseph_pierro
                          To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Friday, August 31, 2007 11:34 PM
                          Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Uncapped muskets?


                          --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, Ronald Church <rchurch@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > I have heard it on several occasions that as French's lead brigade
                          > (Weber's) approached the Sunken Road they did so with uncapped
                          muskets.
                          > Is this true?
                          >
                          > Ron Church
                          > Manchester Md
                          >
                          Carman gives a rather detailed account of the fight made by Weber's
                          brigade (I can send you the particular passage if you wish), but he
                          doesn't mention their muskets being uncapped.

                          It was a well drilled brigade, but new to combat. As others have
                          remarked, it would not be unique in a unit like that for weapons to
                          have been kept uncapped in the advance in order to maintain fire
                          discipline.

                          --jake





                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • Scott Hann
                          There s a story about a 1st Corps regiment or brigade going into action at Gettysburg on the First Day with unloaded weapons. The men in the ranks reminded
                          Message 12 of 24 , Sep 1, 2007
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                            There's a story about a 1st Corps regiment or brigade going into
                            action at Gettysburg on the First Day with unloaded weapons. The
                            men in the ranks reminded the officers to give the order to load
                            their muskets.



                            --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, <richard@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > At Fredericksburg, Gen Humphries ordered his men to make the
                            infamaous assault up Marye's Heights with unloaded weapons. Noy
                            only uncapped, but unloaded. This on the advice of Gen. Hooker.
                            The logic was that no one should stop to fire. He even had an
                            inspection to make certain no one had a loaded weapon. His men
                            climbed those heights basically armed with spears.
                            > ----- Original Message -----
                            > From: joseph_pierro
                            > To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                            > Sent: Friday, August 31, 2007 11:34 PM
                            > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Uncapped muskets?
                            >
                            >
                            > --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, Ronald Church <rchurch@>
                            wrote:
                            > >
                            > > I have heard it on several occasions that as French's lead
                            brigade
                            > > (Weber's) approached the Sunken Road they did so with uncapped
                            > muskets.
                            > > Is this true?
                            > >
                            > > Ron Church
                            > > Manchester Md
                            > >
                            > Carman gives a rather detailed account of the fight made by
                            Weber's
                            > brigade (I can send you the particular passage if you wish), but
                            he
                            > doesn't mention their muskets being uncapped.
                            >
                            > It was a well drilled brigade, but new to combat. As others have
                            > remarked, it would not be unique in a unit like that for weapons
                            to
                            > have been kept uncapped in the advance in order to maintain fire
                            > discipline.
                            >
                            > --jake
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            >
                          • Joseph Pierro
                            Again, that s not unheard of on either side. If the intention is a bayonet charge, and your concern is getting your attacking force to cover the distance in
                            Message 13 of 24 , Sep 1, 2007
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                              Again, that's not unheard of on either side. If the intention is a bayonet charge, and your concern is getting your attacking force to cover the distance in the shortest time possible, the only way to guarantee that they'll cross the space is to send them in with an unloaded weapon. (Even the most disciplined soldier, when charging under fire, will stop to return it--if he has a loaded weapon. It's human nature.)

                              I've come across one Confederate account from the Seven Days fighting that describes his regiment being forced to "ring our muskets"--dropping the rammer down the barrel of the weapon in the presence of an officer or NCO so that he could hear the "ring" of it striking the empty bottom (as opposed to the dull thud of it striking a ball and wadding).



                              ----- Original Message ----
                              From: "richard@..." <richard@...>
                              To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                              Sent: Saturday, September 1, 2007 9:35:24 AM
                              Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Re: Uncapped muskets?

                              At Fredericksburg, Gen Humphries ordered his men to make the infamaous assault up Marye's Heights with unloaded weapons. Noy only uncapped, but unloaded. This on the advice of Gen. Hooker. The logic was that no one should stop to fire. He even had an inspection to make certain no one had a loaded weapon. His men climbed those heights basically armed with spears.
                              ----- Original Message -----
                              From: joseph_pierro
                              To: TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com
                              Sent: Friday, August 31, 2007 11:34 PM
                              Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Uncapped muskets?

                              --- In TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com, Ronald Church <rchurch@... > wrote:
                              >
                              > I have heard it on several occasions that as French's lead brigade
                              > (Weber's) approached the Sunken Road they did so with uncapped
                              muskets.
                              > Is this true?
                              >
                              > Ron Church
                              > Manchester Md
                              >
                              Carman gives a rather detailed account of the fight made by Weber's
                              brigade (I can send you the particular passage if you wish), but he
                              doesn't mention their muskets being uncapped.

                              It was a well drilled brigade, but new to combat. As others have
                              remarked, it would not be unique in a unit like that for weapons to
                              have been kept uncapped in the advance in order to maintain fire
                              discipline.

                              --jake

                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                              ____________________________________________________________________________________
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                              Check out fitting gifts for grads at Yahoo! Search
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                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • Stephen Recker
                              The first bayonet charge on Little Round Top was Patrick Henry O Rourke sending, I believe, the 144th NY over the hill onto a bunch of texans. He did not take
                              Message 14 of 24 , Sep 1, 2007
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                                The first bayonet charge on Little Round Top was Patrick Henry O'Rourke
                                sending, I believe, the 144th NY over the hill onto a bunch of texans.
                                He did not take the time to load. It was 'fix bayonets'.

                                Stephen

                                On Saturday, September 1, 2007, at 10:02 AM, Scott Hann wrote:

                                > There's a story about a 1st Corps regiment or brigade going into
                                > action at Gettysburg on the First Day with unloaded weapons. The
                                > men in the ranks reminded the officers to give the order to load
                                > their muskets.
                              • Thomas Clemens
                                Patrick O Rorke s 146 NY, with a contingent of 5th NY Vols. 3-year men recently added. Thomas G. Clemens D.A. Professor of History Hagerstown Community College
                                Message 15 of 24 , Sep 1, 2007
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                                  Patrick O'Rorke's 146 NY, with a contingent of 5th NY Vols. 3-year men recently added.


                                  Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
                                  Professor of History
                                  Hagerstown Community College


                                  >>> Stephen Recker <recker@...> 09/01/07 5:38 PM >>>
                                  The first bayonet charge on Little Round Top was Patrick Henry O'Rourke
                                  sending, I believe, the 144th NY over the hill onto a bunch of texans.
                                  He did not take the time to load. It was 'fix bayonets'.

                                  Stephen

                                  On Saturday, September 1, 2007, at 10:02 AM, Scott Hann wrote:

                                  > There's a story about a 1st Corps regiment or brigade going into
                                  > action at Gettysburg on the First Day with unloaded weapons. The
                                  > men in the ranks reminded the officers to give the order to load
                                  > their muskets.
                                • G E Mayers
                                  Dear Joseph, This ringing or pinging of the gun barrel is even heard today among CW reenactors during safety inspections, thereby insuring a
                                  Message 16 of 24 , Sep 3, 2007
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                                    Dear Joseph,

                                    This "ringing" or "pinging" of the gun barrel is even heard today
                                    among CW reenactors during safety inspections, thereby insuring a
                                    cleaned/unfouled barrel.

                                    I would personally prefer to advance to battle loaded but not
                                    capped, if I knew I was going to be using the bayonet.

                                    Yr. Obt. Svt.
                                    G E "Gerry" Mayers

                                    To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
                                    on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
                                    Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from
                                    the Almighty God. --Anonymous
                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                    From: "Joseph Pierro" <joseph_pierro@...>
                                    To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                                    Sent: Saturday, September 01, 2007 10:47 AM
                                    Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Re: Uncapped muskets?


                                    > Again, that's not unheard of on either side. If the intention
                                    > is a bayonet charge, and your concern is getting your attacking
                                    > force to cover the distance in the shortest time possible, the
                                    > only way to guarantee that they'll cross the space is to send
                                    > them in with an unloaded weapon. (Even the most disciplined
                                    > soldier, when charging under fire, will stop to return it--if
                                    > he has a loaded weapon. It's human nature.)
                                    >
                                    > I've come across one Confederate account from the Seven Days
                                    > fighting that describes his regiment being forced to "ring our
                                    > muskets"--dropping the rammer down the barrel of the weapon in
                                    > the presence of an officer or NCO so that he could hear the
                                    > "ring" of it striking the empty bottom (as opposed to the dull
                                    > thud of it striking a ball and wadding).
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > ----- Original Message ----
                                    > From: "richard@..." <richard@...>
                                    > To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                                    > Sent: Saturday, September 1, 2007 9:35:24 AM
                                    > Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Re: Uncapped muskets?
                                    >
                                    > At Fredericksburg, Gen Humphries ordered his men to make the
                                    > infamaous assault up Marye's Heights with unloaded weapons. Noy
                                    > only uncapped, but unloaded. This on the advice of Gen. Hooker.
                                    > The logic was that no one should stop to fire. He even had an
                                    > inspection to make certain no one had a loaded weapon. His men
                                    > climbed those heights basically armed with spears.
                                    > ----- Original Message -----
                                    > From: joseph_pierro
                                    > To: TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com
                                    > Sent: Friday, August 31, 2007 11:34 PM
                                    > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Uncapped muskets?
                                    >
                                    > --- In TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com, Ronald Church
                                    > <rchurch@... > wrote:
                                    >>
                                    >> I have heard it on several occasions that as French's lead
                                    >> brigade
                                    >> (Weber's) approached the Sunken Road they did so with uncapped
                                    > muskets.
                                    >> Is this true?
                                    >>
                                    >> Ron Church
                                    >> Manchester Md
                                    >>
                                    > Carman gives a rather detailed account of the fight made by
                                    > Weber's
                                    > brigade (I can send you the particular passage if you wish),
                                    > but he
                                    > doesn't mention their muskets being uncapped.
                                    >
                                    > It was a well drilled brigade, but new to combat. As others
                                    > have
                                    > remarked, it would not be unique in a unit like that for
                                    > weapons to
                                    > have been kept uncapped in the advance in order to maintain
                                    > fire
                                    > discipline.
                                    >
                                    > --jake
                                    >
                                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > ____________________________________________________________________________________
                                    > Luggage? GPS? Comic books?
                                    > Check out fitting gifts for grads at Yahoo! Search
                                    > http://search.yahoo.com/search?fr=oni_on_mail&p=graduation+gifts&cs=bz
                                    >
                                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    >
                                    >
                                  • G E Mayers
                                    Dear Stephen, IIRC O Rorke and his men did not have time for much anything else... basically switch right from column into battle line and charge! Yr. Obt.
                                    Message 17 of 24 , Sep 3, 2007
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                                      Dear Stephen,

                                      IIRC O'Rorke and his men did not have time for much anything
                                      else... basically switch right from column into battle line and
                                      charge!

                                      Yr. Obt. Svt.
                                      G E "Gerry" Mayers

                                      To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
                                      on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
                                      Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from
                                      the Almighty God. --Anonymous
                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                      From: "Stephen Recker" <recker@...>
                                      To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                                      Sent: Saturday, September 01, 2007 5:38 PM
                                      Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Re: Uncapped muskets?


                                      > The first bayonet charge on Little Round Top was Patrick Henry
                                      > O'Rourke
                                      > sending, I believe, the 144th NY over the hill onto a bunch of
                                      > texans.
                                      > He did not take the time to load. It was 'fix bayonets'.
                                      >
                                      > Stephen
                                      >
                                      > On Saturday, September 1, 2007, at 10:02 AM, Scott Hann wrote:
                                      >
                                      >> There's a story about a 1st Corps regiment or brigade going
                                      >> into
                                      >> action at Gettysburg on the First Day with unloaded weapons.
                                      >> The
                                      >> men in the ranks reminded the officers to give the order to
                                      >> load
                                      >> their muskets.
                                      >
                                      >
                                    • Joseph Pierro
                                      That, Gerry, is a universal feeling among infantrymen--hence the added precaution (form an officer s pov) of ordering the weapons to be carried unloaded. A
                                      Message 18 of 24 , Sep 3, 2007
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                                        That, Gerry, is a universal feeling among infantrymen--hence the added precaution (form an officer's pov) of ordering the weapons to be carried unloaded. A solider is much more likely to disobey orders, halt his charge and cap a previously loaded weapon than he will to stop and run through the entire loading sequence.

                                        I remember when I was in Basic Training many years ago and my platoon was receiving a block of instruction on the use of the bayonet, at the end of which the drill sergeant told us that if our bayonet ever became stuck in the enemy's ribcage, it could be dislodged by firing a round from our weapons.

                                        To which I politely retorted that if my weapon still had a round in it, the bayonet would not be entering the ******* equation.

                                        I imagine 19th century soldiers were as practical-minded as I--orders to the contrary notwithstanding. :)

                                        --jake


                                        ----- Original Message ----
                                        From: G E Mayers <gerry1952@...>
                                        To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                                        Sent: Monday, September 3, 2007 6:57:53 PM
                                        Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Re: Uncapped muskets?

                                        Dear Joseph,

                                        This "ringing" or "pinging" of the gun barrel is even heard today
                                        among CW reenactors during safety inspections, thereby insuring a
                                        cleaned/unfouled barrel.

                                        I would personally prefer to advance to battle loaded but not
                                        capped, if I knew I was going to be using the bayonet.

                                        Yr. Obt. Svt.
                                        G E "Gerry" Mayers

                                        To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
                                        on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
                                        Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from
                                        the Almighty God. --Anonymous
                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                        From: "Joseph Pierro" <joseph_pierro@ yahoo.com>
                                        To: <TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com>
                                        Sent: Saturday, September 01, 2007 10:47 AM
                                        Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Re: Uncapped muskets?

                                        > Again, that's not unheard of on either side. If the intention
                                        > is a bayonet charge, and your concern is getting your attacking
                                        > force to cover the distance in the shortest time possible, the
                                        > only way to guarantee that they'll cross the space is to send
                                        > them in with an unloaded weapon. (Even the most disciplined
                                        > soldier, when charging under fire, will stop to return it--if
                                        > he has a loaded weapon. It's human nature.)
                                        >
                                        > I've come across one Confederate account from the Seven Days
                                        > fighting that describes his regiment being forced to "ring our
                                        > muskets"--dropping the rammer down the barrel of the weapon in
                                        > the presence of an officer or NCO so that he could hear the
                                        > "ring" of it striking the empty bottom (as opposed to the dull
                                        > thud of it striking a ball and wadding).
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > ----- Original Message ----
                                        > From: "richard@rcroker. com" <richard@rcroker. com>
                                        > To: TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com
                                        > Sent: Saturday, September 1, 2007 9:35:24 AM
                                        > Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Re: Uncapped muskets?
                                        >
                                        > At Fredericksburg, Gen Humphries ordered his men to make the
                                        > infamaous assault up Marye's Heights with unloaded weapons. Noy
                                        > only uncapped, but unloaded. This on the advice of Gen. Hooker.
                                        > The logic was that no one should stop to fire. He even had an
                                        > inspection to make certain no one had a loaded weapon. His men
                                        > climbed those heights basically armed with spears.
                                        > ----- Original Message -----
                                        > From: joseph_pierro
                                        > To: TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com
                                        > Sent: Friday, August 31, 2007 11:34 PM
                                        > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Uncapped muskets?
                                        >
                                        > --- In TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com, Ronald Church
                                        > <rchurch@... > wrote:
                                        >>
                                        >> I have heard it on several occasions that as French's lead
                                        >> brigade
                                        >> (Weber's) approached the Sunken Road they did so with uncapped
                                        > muskets.
                                        >> Is this true?
                                        >>
                                        >> Ron Church
                                        >> Manchester Md
                                        >>
                                        > Carman gives a rather detailed account of the fight made by
                                        > Weber's
                                        > brigade (I can send you the particular passage if you wish),
                                        > but he
                                        > doesn't mention their muskets being uncapped.
                                        >
                                        > It was a well drilled brigade, but new to combat. As others
                                        > have
                                        > remarked, it would not be unique in a unit like that for
                                        > weapons to
                                        > have been kept uncapped in the advance in order to maintain
                                        > fire
                                        > discipline.
                                        >
                                        > --jake
                                        >
                                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
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                                        >
                                        >





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