Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.
 

Re: [TalkAntietam] G.A.R. Reno Post #4 Hagerstown

Expand Messages
  • Stephen Recker
    Scott, Reno Post #4 signed a lease with the mayor of Hagerstown on April 1, 1905 for all that room or hall, known as the Old Town Hall, formerly occupied by
    Message 1 of 24 , Aug 23, 2007
      Scott,

      Reno Post #4 signed a lease with the mayor of Hagerstown on April 1,
      1905 for "all that room or hall, known as the Old Town Hall, formerly
      occupied by the Masonic Lodge, situate in the building on the
      south-east corner of North Potomac Street and East Franklin Street,
      Hagerstown". The building was replaced by the current City Hall, built
      in 1939.

      That said, I have a muster list of the Post from 1899. Unfortunately it
      simply lists the address as "Hagerstown". The post commander was S.D.
      Martin. That might be a clue to something.

      I also have a Quartermaster report from 1910. It lists the commander as
      E C. Mobley.The roster from 1899 lists an Ed. M. Mobley. His address is
      listed as 3 1/2 West Franklin, coincidentally that is the old address
      of famed Antietam battlefield photographer E.M. Recher. The Rose Hill
      Cemetery in Hagerstown has two very old gravestones that read, in part,
      "Sons of E.M. Mobley and E.C. Mobley". Perhaps another rabbit hole?

      Nonetheless, the 1910 quartermaster report says that the post only has
      $400 "Cash invested in Furniture, Flags, etc."

      I got hold of the name of the woman who holds all of the historical
      material for that building. I'll drop by her office tomorrow and see
      what she knows. Maybe she'll have big boxes of stuff hidden away. We
      can only hope.

      I'll send a copy of these materials to you via regular mail. No
      information about or photos of the relics, but perhaps a clue to
      something?

      Stephen



      On Thursday, August 23, 2007, at 11:13 AM, Scott Hann wrote:

      > OK Brian, I'm game. I have my own "ghost stories" that I've
      > personally experienced on the Antietam battlefield, but I'll leave
      > them for another time.
      >
      > I'm seeking information about G.A.R. Reno Post #4 in Hagerstown, MD.
      > Does anyone know if photos from this Post exist, or has any
      > information about the collection it housed? Also, I'm looking for
      > information about early displays of Antietam relics. So-called "relic
      > boards," such as the one that hung in the Antietam Train Station.
      > Thanks, Scott


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Scott Hann
      Steve, who s better than you? Nobody! Thanks for the great info. ... 1, ... formerly ... Street, ... built ... Unfortunately it ... S.D. ... commander as ...
      Message 2 of 24 , Aug 23, 2007
        Steve, who's better than you? Nobody! Thanks for the great info.

        --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, Stephen Recker <recker@...>
        wrote:
        >
        > Scott,
        >
        > Reno Post #4 signed a lease with the mayor of Hagerstown on April
        1,
        > 1905 for "all that room or hall, known as the Old Town Hall,
        formerly
        > occupied by the Masonic Lodge, situate in the building on the
        > south-east corner of North Potomac Street and East Franklin
        Street,
        > Hagerstown". The building was replaced by the current City Hall,
        built
        > in 1939.
        >
        > That said, I have a muster list of the Post from 1899.
        Unfortunately it
        > simply lists the address as "Hagerstown". The post commander was
        S.D.
        > Martin. That might be a clue to something.
        >
        > I also have a Quartermaster report from 1910. It lists the
        commander as
        > E C. Mobley.The roster from 1899 lists an Ed. M. Mobley. His
        address is
        > listed as 3 1/2 West Franklin, coincidentally that is the old
        address
        > of famed Antietam battlefield photographer E.M. Recher. The Rose
        Hill
        > Cemetery in Hagerstown has two very old gravestones that read, in
        part,
        > "Sons of E.M. Mobley and E.C. Mobley". Perhaps another rabbit hole?
        >
        > Nonetheless, the 1910 quartermaster report says that the post only
        has
        > $400 "Cash invested in Furniture, Flags, etc."
        >
        > I got hold of the name of the woman who holds all of the
        historical
        > material for that building. I'll drop by her office tomorrow and
        see
        > what she knows. Maybe she'll have big boxes of stuff hidden away.
        We
        > can only hope.
        >
        > I'll send a copy of these materials to you via regular mail. No
        > information about or photos of the relics, but perhaps a clue to
        > something?
        >
        > Stephen
        >
        >
        >
        > On Thursday, August 23, 2007, at 11:13 AM, Scott Hann wrote:
        >
        > > OK Brian, I'm game. I have my own "ghost stories" that I've
        > > personally experienced on the Antietam battlefield, but I'll
        leave
        > > them for another time.
        > >
        > > I'm seeking information about G.A.R. Reno Post #4 in Hagerstown,
        MD.
        > > Does anyone know if photos from this Post exist, or has any
        > > information about the collection it housed? Also, I'm looking for
        > > information about early displays of Antietam relics. So-
        called "relic
        > > boards," such as the one that hung in the Antietam Train Station.
        > > Thanks, Scott
        >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
      • Stephen Recker
        Kind of you to say, sir. -sjr
        Message 3 of 24 , Aug 23, 2007
          Kind of you to say, sir.

          -sjr

          On Thursday, August 23, 2007, at 05:40 PM, Scott Hann wrote:

          > Steve, who's better than you? Nobody! Thanks for the great info.
          >
        • Stephen Recker
          Scott, Well, no pictures of the relics in the hall, but a few more clues. I went to the City Planning office at Hagerstown City Hall on the site of the old
          Message 4 of 24 , Aug 24, 2007
            Scott,

            Well, no pictures of the relics in the hall, but a few more clues.

            I went to the City Planning office at Hagerstown City Hall on the site
            of the old Town Market where G.A.R. Reno Post #4 used to meet. I ran
            into Stephen Bockmiller, esteemed member of this board, and he told me
            that they don't have any pictures of the old hall. He even checked
            around for boxes of old stuff, but to no avail.

            Stephen then directed me to the City Clerk. Here I found something
            interesting. Besides the fact that famed Antietam photographer B.W.T.
            Phreaner refused to pave his sidewalk in 1904, even to the point of the
            case being referred to the Police, there is a city council record from
            March 2, 1905 saying that it needs to be discerned whether the G.A.R.
            boys are going to renew their lease that expires in April 1905. Now,
            the lease I have states that the lease of the space started in 1905. I
            looked back a few years and couldn't find anything, so it is unclear
            when they first occupied the space.

            Just outside the clerk's office, though, are a bunch of old portraits
            of city officials taken around 1910. My guess is that they were taken
            in the old city hall, perhaps even in the Masonic Lodge Room. BTW, that
            is the name of the room they rented - the Masonic Lodge Room. There are
            some cool curtains, but no relic cases.

            Then I went to the Washington County Historical Society. The have some
            great photos of the outside of the old hall. It was built in 1822. The
            top was changed in 1888. Then it was torn down in 1939. The pictures
            are great. I'll send them on.

            Stephen
          • Scott Hann
            Steve, Again I owe you big time. According the the website at the USMHI there is an envelope containing information about this Post, whereas they have box(es)
            Message 5 of 24 , Aug 24, 2007
              Steve,

              Again I owe you big time. According the the website at the USMHI there
              is an envelope containing information about this Post, whereas they have
              box(es) of information about other Posts. The next time I get over to
              Carlisle I'll have to photocopy the information.

              Scott




              --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, Stephen Recker <recker@...> wrote:
              >
              > Scott,
              >
              > Well, no pictures of the relics in the hall, but a few more clues.
              >
              > I went to the City Planning office at Hagerstown City Hall on the site
              > of the old Town Market where G.A.R. Reno Post #4 used to meet. I ran
              > into Stephen Bockmiller, esteemed member of this board, and he told me
              > that they don't have any pictures of the old hall. He even checked
              > around for boxes of old stuff, but to no avail.
              >
              > Stephen then directed me to the City Clerk. Here I found something
              > interesting. Besides the fact that famed Antietam photographer B.W.T.
              > Phreaner refused to pave his sidewalk in 1904, even to the point of
              the
              > case being referred to the Police, there is a city council record from
              > March 2, 1905 saying that it needs to be discerned whether the G.A.R.
              > boys are going to renew their lease that expires in April 1905. Now,
              > the lease I have states that the lease of the space started in 1905. I
              > looked back a few years and couldn't find anything, so it is unclear
              > when they first occupied the space.
              >
              > Just outside the clerk's office, though, are a bunch of old portraits
              > of city officials taken around 1910. My guess is that they were taken
              > in the old city hall, perhaps even in the Masonic Lodge Room. BTW,
              that
              > is the name of the room they rented - the Masonic Lodge Room. There
              are
              > some cool curtains, but no relic cases.
              >
              > Then I went to the Washington County Historical Society. The have some
              > great photos of the outside of the old hall. It was built in 1822. The
              > top was changed in 1888. Then it was torn down in 1939. The pictures
              > are great. I'll send them on.
              >
              > Stephen
              >
            • Thomas Clemens
              Which reminds me Steve, Washington County Historical Society needs new members. I ll get you a form the next time I see you. :-) Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
              Message 6 of 24 , Aug 24, 2007
                Which reminds me Steve, Washington County Historical Society needs new
                members. I'll get you a form the next time I see you. :-)


                Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
                Professor of History
                Hagerstown Community College


                >>> Stephen Recker <recker@...> 08/24/07 3:44 PM >>>
                Scott,

                Well, no pictures of the relics in the hall, but a few more clues.

                I went to the City Planning office at Hagerstown City Hall on the site
                of the old Town Market where G.A.R. Reno Post #4 used to meet. I ran
                into Stephen Bockmiller, esteemed member of this board, and he told me
                that they don't have any pictures of the old hall. He even checked
                around for boxes of old stuff, but to no avail.

                Stephen then directed me to the City Clerk. Here I found something
                interesting. Besides the fact that famed Antietam photographer B.W.T.
                Phreaner refused to pave his sidewalk in 1904, even to the point of the
                case being referred to the Police, there is a city council record from
                March 2, 1905 saying that it needs to be discerned whether the G.A.R.
                boys are going to renew their lease that expires in April 1905. Now,
                the lease I have states that the lease of the space started in 1905. I
                looked back a few years and couldn't find anything, so it is unclear
                when they first occupied the space.

                Just outside the clerk's office, though, are a bunch of old portraits
                of city officials taken around 1910. My guess is that they were taken
                in the old city hall, perhaps even in the Masonic Lodge Room. BTW, that
                is the name of the room they rented - the Masonic Lodge Room. There are
                some cool curtains, but no relic cases.

                Then I went to the Washington County Historical Society. The have some
                great photos of the outside of the old hall. It was built in 1822. The
                top was changed in 1888. Then it was torn down in 1939. The pictures
                are great. I'll send them on.

                Stephen
              • Stephen Recker
                Tom, When I was down there I saw you were on the board, so I filled out my form. Thanks for the nudge! Stephen
                Message 7 of 24 , Aug 24, 2007
                  Tom,

                  When I was down there I saw you were on the board, so I filled out my
                  form. Thanks for the nudge!

                  Stephen


                  On Friday, August 24, 2007, at 06:21 PM, Thomas Clemens wrote:

                  > Which reminds me Steve, Washington County Historical Society needs new
                  > members. I'll get you a form the next time I see you. :-)
                  >
                • Stephen Recker
                  Sounds like a road trip. I ve still got to get up to Gettysburg College and see those George Batchelder covers. Stephen
                  Message 8 of 24 , Aug 24, 2007
                    Sounds like a road trip. I've still got to get up to Gettysburg College
                    and see those George Batchelder covers.

                    Stephen

                    On Friday, August 24, 2007, at 04:36 PM, Scott Hann wrote:

                    > Again I owe you big time. According the the website at the USMHI there
                    > is an envelope containing information about this Post, whereas they
                    > have
                    > box(es) of information about other Posts. The next time I get over to
                    > Carlisle I'll have to photocopy the information.
                    >
                  • Scott Hann
                    I didn t know Gettysburg College had the George Batchelder covers. One of these days I have to take a trip to the college library to see the letters of Adj.
                    Message 9 of 24 , Aug 24, 2007
                      I didn't know Gettysburg College had the George Batchelder covers.
                      One of these days I have to take a trip to the college library to
                      see the letters of Adj. Henry P. Clare of the 83rd NY. His
                      eyewitness account of Pickett's Charge has been published, but I'm
                      more anxious to see what he wrote about Antietam. I have a CDV of
                      him, which is part of the reason why I'm interested.


                      --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, Stephen Recker <recker@...>
                      wrote:
                      >
                      > Sounds like a road trip. I've still got to get up to Gettysburg
                      College
                      > and see those George Batchelder covers.
                      >
                      > Stephen
                      >
                      > On Friday, August 24, 2007, at 04:36 PM, Scott Hann wrote:
                      >
                      > > Again I owe you big time. According the the website at the USMHI
                      there
                      > > is an envelope containing information about this Post, whereas
                      they
                      > > have
                      > > box(es) of information about other Posts. The next time I get
                      over to
                      > > Carlisle I'll have to photocopy the information.
                      > >
                      >
                    • Stephen Recker
                      Da ohhh. I meant to say Hayward covers. Stephen
                      Message 10 of 24 , Aug 24, 2007
                        Da'ohhh. I meant to say Hayward covers.

                        Stephen

                        On Friday, August 24, 2007, at 08:08 PM, Scott Hann wrote:

                        > I didn't know Gettysburg College had the George Batchelder covers.
                      • Stephen Recker
                        I contacted the Masonic Temple here in Hagerstown to see if they have any photos of the Masonic Lodge Hall where Reno Post #4 met. No such luck. Here is the
                        Message 11 of 24 , Aug 24, 2007
                          I contacted the Masonic Temple here in Hagerstown to see if they have
                          any photos of the Masonic Lodge Hall where Reno Post #4 met. No such
                          luck. Here is the reply:

                          //////////////////////////////////////////////
                          In 1822 Mt. Moriah Lodge (Chartered in 1802) joined with the City to
                          build a
                          combined Market House and Masonic Temple - the site of the present City
                          Hall
                          at Franklin and Potomac. Mt. Moriah Lodge ceased to exist in 1831.

                          Friendship Lodge was Chartered on May 22, 1827 and met at homes in
                          Hagerstown and Williamsport until they found a more permanent site in
                          1858.
                          From July 1858 to April 1, 1888 Friendship Lodge met in the "new
                          building"
                          at the southeast corner of Public Square. Friendship Lodge then built
                          our
                          current Temple in 1898 and dedicated it on March 8, 1899, where we have
                          been
                          ever since.

                          We have no pictures of anything prior to the dedication of the current
                          Masonic Temple on March 8, 1899.

                          If you find anything like that I would be very interested in getting a
                          copy.

                          Terry Smith, Secretary
                          Friendship Lodge No. 84

                          ///////////////////////////////////////////////

                          This does tell us that the hall was not available for lease until, at
                          the earliest, March 1899.

                          Stephen
                        • Ronald Church
                          I have heard it on several occasions that as French s lead brigade (Weber s) approached the Sunken Road they did so with uncapped muskets. Is this true? Ron
                          Message 12 of 24 , Aug 31, 2007
                            I have heard it on several occasions that as French's lead brigade
                            (Weber's) approached the Sunken Road they did so with uncapped muskets.
                            Is this true?

                            Ron Church
                            Manchester Md
                          • G E Mayers
                            Ron, I have read that in several sources also. I think that, if you are dealing with a new unit, it might be best to have them load but not cap... As a
                            Message 13 of 24 , Aug 31, 2007
                              Ron,

                              I have read that in several sources also. I think that, if you
                              are dealing with a new unit, it might be best to have them load
                              but not cap... As a reenactor who once did infantry, there were
                              occasions were my unit was told to load but not cap....

                              Yr. Obt. Svt.
                              G E "Gerry" Mayers

                              To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
                              on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
                              Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from
                              the Almighty God. --Anonymous
                              ----- Original Message -----
                              From: "Ronald Church" <rchurch@...>
                              To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                              Sent: Friday, August 31, 2007 2:31 PM
                              Subject: [TalkAntietam] Uncapped muskets?


                              >I have heard it on several occasions that as French's lead
                              >brigade
                              > (Weber's) approached the Sunken Road they did so with uncapped
                              > muskets.
                              > Is this true?
                              >
                              > Ron Church
                              > Manchester Md
                              >
                              >
                            • Ronald Church
                              Gerry, The reasoning for not capping in this instance is understandable 1. These were green troops who, at first hostile file, might pull trigger and break
                              Message 14 of 24 , Aug 31, 2007
                                Gerry,

                                The reasoning for not capping in this instance is understandable
                                1. These were green troops who, at first hostile file, might pull
                                trigger and break for the rear .... or the nearest cover, and
                                2. Since their destination was on the left of Tyndale up near the
                                VC they still had some ground to cover (or so they thought) before
                                running into Confederates.

                                So it makes sense that they might not have capped their weapons as they
                                approached the Sunken Road, but I've not been able find confirmation of it.

                                Ron Church

                                G E Mayers wrote:
                                > Ron,
                                >
                                > I have read that in several sources also. I think that, if you
                                > are dealing with a new unit, it might be best to have them load
                                > but not cap... As a reenactor who once did infantry, there were
                                > occasions were my unit was told to load but not cap....
                                >
                                > Yr. Obt. Svt.
                                > G E "Gerry" Mayers
                                >
                                > To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
                                > on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
                                > Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from
                                > the Almighty God. --Anonymous
                                > ----- Original Message -----
                                > From: "Ronald Church" <rchurch@...>
                                > To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                                > Sent: Friday, August 31, 2007 2:31 PM
                                > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Uncapped muskets?
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >> I have heard it on several occasions that as French's lead
                                >> brigade
                                >> (Weber's) approached the Sunken Road they did so with uncapped
                                >> muskets.
                                >> Is this true?
                                >>
                                >> Ron Church
                                >> Manchester Md
                                >>
                                >>
                                >>
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > .
                                >
                                >
                              • joseph_pierro
                                ... muskets. ... Carman gives a rather detailed account of the fight made by Weber s brigade (I can send you the particular passage if you wish), but he
                                Message 15 of 24 , Aug 31, 2007
                                  --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, Ronald Church <rchurch@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > I have heard it on several occasions that as French's lead brigade
                                  > (Weber's) approached the Sunken Road they did so with uncapped
                                  muskets.
                                  > Is this true?
                                  >
                                  > Ron Church
                                  > Manchester Md
                                  >
                                  Carman gives a rather detailed account of the fight made by Weber's
                                  brigade (I can send you the particular passage if you wish), but he
                                  doesn't mention their muskets being uncapped.

                                  It was a well drilled brigade, but new to combat. As others have
                                  remarked, it would not be unique in a unit like that for weapons to
                                  have been kept uncapped in the advance in order to maintain fire
                                  discipline.

                                  --jake
                                • richard@rcroker.com
                                  At Fredericksburg, Gen Humphries ordered his men to make the infamaous assault up Marye s Heights with unloaded weapons. Noy only uncapped, but unloaded.
                                  Message 16 of 24 , Sep 1, 2007
                                    At Fredericksburg, Gen Humphries ordered his men to make the infamaous assault up Marye's Heights with unloaded weapons. Noy only uncapped, but unloaded. This on the advice of Gen. Hooker. The logic was that no one should stop to fire. He even had an inspection to make certain no one had a loaded weapon. His men climbed those heights basically armed with spears.
                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                    From: joseph_pierro
                                    To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                                    Sent: Friday, August 31, 2007 11:34 PM
                                    Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Uncapped muskets?


                                    --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, Ronald Church <rchurch@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    > I have heard it on several occasions that as French's lead brigade
                                    > (Weber's) approached the Sunken Road they did so with uncapped
                                    muskets.
                                    > Is this true?
                                    >
                                    > Ron Church
                                    > Manchester Md
                                    >
                                    Carman gives a rather detailed account of the fight made by Weber's
                                    brigade (I can send you the particular passage if you wish), but he
                                    doesn't mention their muskets being uncapped.

                                    It was a well drilled brigade, but new to combat. As others have
                                    remarked, it would not be unique in a unit like that for weapons to
                                    have been kept uncapped in the advance in order to maintain fire
                                    discipline.

                                    --jake





                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  • Scott Hann
                                    There s a story about a 1st Corps regiment or brigade going into action at Gettysburg on the First Day with unloaded weapons. The men in the ranks reminded
                                    Message 17 of 24 , Sep 1, 2007
                                      There's a story about a 1st Corps regiment or brigade going into
                                      action at Gettysburg on the First Day with unloaded weapons. The
                                      men in the ranks reminded the officers to give the order to load
                                      their muskets.



                                      --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, <richard@...> wrote:
                                      >
                                      > At Fredericksburg, Gen Humphries ordered his men to make the
                                      infamaous assault up Marye's Heights with unloaded weapons. Noy
                                      only uncapped, but unloaded. This on the advice of Gen. Hooker.
                                      The logic was that no one should stop to fire. He even had an
                                      inspection to make certain no one had a loaded weapon. His men
                                      climbed those heights basically armed with spears.
                                      > ----- Original Message -----
                                      > From: joseph_pierro
                                      > To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                                      > Sent: Friday, August 31, 2007 11:34 PM
                                      > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Uncapped muskets?
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, Ronald Church <rchurch@>
                                      wrote:
                                      > >
                                      > > I have heard it on several occasions that as French's lead
                                      brigade
                                      > > (Weber's) approached the Sunken Road they did so with uncapped
                                      > muskets.
                                      > > Is this true?
                                      > >
                                      > > Ron Church
                                      > > Manchester Md
                                      > >
                                      > Carman gives a rather detailed account of the fight made by
                                      Weber's
                                      > brigade (I can send you the particular passage if you wish), but
                                      he
                                      > doesn't mention their muskets being uncapped.
                                      >
                                      > It was a well drilled brigade, but new to combat. As others have
                                      > remarked, it would not be unique in a unit like that for weapons
                                      to
                                      > have been kept uncapped in the advance in order to maintain fire
                                      > discipline.
                                      >
                                      > --jake
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      >
                                    • Joseph Pierro
                                      Again, that s not unheard of on either side. If the intention is a bayonet charge, and your concern is getting your attacking force to cover the distance in
                                      Message 18 of 24 , Sep 1, 2007
                                        Again, that's not unheard of on either side. If the intention is a bayonet charge, and your concern is getting your attacking force to cover the distance in the shortest time possible, the only way to guarantee that they'll cross the space is to send them in with an unloaded weapon. (Even the most disciplined soldier, when charging under fire, will stop to return it--if he has a loaded weapon. It's human nature.)

                                        I've come across one Confederate account from the Seven Days fighting that describes his regiment being forced to "ring our muskets"--dropping the rammer down the barrel of the weapon in the presence of an officer or NCO so that he could hear the "ring" of it striking the empty bottom (as opposed to the dull thud of it striking a ball and wadding).



                                        ----- Original Message ----
                                        From: "richard@..." <richard@...>
                                        To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                                        Sent: Saturday, September 1, 2007 9:35:24 AM
                                        Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Re: Uncapped muskets?

                                        At Fredericksburg, Gen Humphries ordered his men to make the infamaous assault up Marye's Heights with unloaded weapons. Noy only uncapped, but unloaded. This on the advice of Gen. Hooker. The logic was that no one should stop to fire. He even had an inspection to make certain no one had a loaded weapon. His men climbed those heights basically armed with spears.
                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                        From: joseph_pierro
                                        To: TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com
                                        Sent: Friday, August 31, 2007 11:34 PM
                                        Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Uncapped muskets?

                                        --- In TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com, Ronald Church <rchurch@... > wrote:
                                        >
                                        > I have heard it on several occasions that as French's lead brigade
                                        > (Weber's) approached the Sunken Road they did so with uncapped
                                        muskets.
                                        > Is this true?
                                        >
                                        > Ron Church
                                        > Manchester Md
                                        >
                                        Carman gives a rather detailed account of the fight made by Weber's
                                        brigade (I can send you the particular passage if you wish), but he
                                        doesn't mention their muskets being uncapped.

                                        It was a well drilled brigade, but new to combat. As others have
                                        remarked, it would not be unique in a unit like that for weapons to
                                        have been kept uncapped in the advance in order to maintain fire
                                        discipline.

                                        --jake

                                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                                        ____________________________________________________________________________________
                                        Luggage? GPS? Comic books?
                                        Check out fitting gifts for grads at Yahoo! Search
                                        http://search.yahoo.com/search?fr=oni_on_mail&p=graduation+gifts&cs=bz

                                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      • Stephen Recker
                                        The first bayonet charge on Little Round Top was Patrick Henry O Rourke sending, I believe, the 144th NY over the hill onto a bunch of texans. He did not take
                                        Message 19 of 24 , Sep 1, 2007
                                          The first bayonet charge on Little Round Top was Patrick Henry O'Rourke
                                          sending, I believe, the 144th NY over the hill onto a bunch of texans.
                                          He did not take the time to load. It was 'fix bayonets'.

                                          Stephen

                                          On Saturday, September 1, 2007, at 10:02 AM, Scott Hann wrote:

                                          > There's a story about a 1st Corps regiment or brigade going into
                                          > action at Gettysburg on the First Day with unloaded weapons. The
                                          > men in the ranks reminded the officers to give the order to load
                                          > their muskets.
                                        • Thomas Clemens
                                          Patrick O Rorke s 146 NY, with a contingent of 5th NY Vols. 3-year men recently added. Thomas G. Clemens D.A. Professor of History Hagerstown Community College
                                          Message 20 of 24 , Sep 1, 2007
                                            Patrick O'Rorke's 146 NY, with a contingent of 5th NY Vols. 3-year men recently added.


                                            Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
                                            Professor of History
                                            Hagerstown Community College


                                            >>> Stephen Recker <recker@...> 09/01/07 5:38 PM >>>
                                            The first bayonet charge on Little Round Top was Patrick Henry O'Rourke
                                            sending, I believe, the 144th NY over the hill onto a bunch of texans.
                                            He did not take the time to load. It was 'fix bayonets'.

                                            Stephen

                                            On Saturday, September 1, 2007, at 10:02 AM, Scott Hann wrote:

                                            > There's a story about a 1st Corps regiment or brigade going into
                                            > action at Gettysburg on the First Day with unloaded weapons. The
                                            > men in the ranks reminded the officers to give the order to load
                                            > their muskets.
                                          • G E Mayers
                                            Dear Joseph, This ringing or pinging of the gun barrel is even heard today among CW reenactors during safety inspections, thereby insuring a
                                            Message 21 of 24 , Sep 3, 2007
                                              Dear Joseph,

                                              This "ringing" or "pinging" of the gun barrel is even heard today
                                              among CW reenactors during safety inspections, thereby insuring a
                                              cleaned/unfouled barrel.

                                              I would personally prefer to advance to battle loaded but not
                                              capped, if I knew I was going to be using the bayonet.

                                              Yr. Obt. Svt.
                                              G E "Gerry" Mayers

                                              To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
                                              on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
                                              Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from
                                              the Almighty God. --Anonymous
                                              ----- Original Message -----
                                              From: "Joseph Pierro" <joseph_pierro@...>
                                              To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                                              Sent: Saturday, September 01, 2007 10:47 AM
                                              Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Re: Uncapped muskets?


                                              > Again, that's not unheard of on either side. If the intention
                                              > is a bayonet charge, and your concern is getting your attacking
                                              > force to cover the distance in the shortest time possible, the
                                              > only way to guarantee that they'll cross the space is to send
                                              > them in with an unloaded weapon. (Even the most disciplined
                                              > soldier, when charging under fire, will stop to return it--if
                                              > he has a loaded weapon. It's human nature.)
                                              >
                                              > I've come across one Confederate account from the Seven Days
                                              > fighting that describes his regiment being forced to "ring our
                                              > muskets"--dropping the rammer down the barrel of the weapon in
                                              > the presence of an officer or NCO so that he could hear the
                                              > "ring" of it striking the empty bottom (as opposed to the dull
                                              > thud of it striking a ball and wadding).
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > ----- Original Message ----
                                              > From: "richard@..." <richard@...>
                                              > To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                                              > Sent: Saturday, September 1, 2007 9:35:24 AM
                                              > Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Re: Uncapped muskets?
                                              >
                                              > At Fredericksburg, Gen Humphries ordered his men to make the
                                              > infamaous assault up Marye's Heights with unloaded weapons. Noy
                                              > only uncapped, but unloaded. This on the advice of Gen. Hooker.
                                              > The logic was that no one should stop to fire. He even had an
                                              > inspection to make certain no one had a loaded weapon. His men
                                              > climbed those heights basically armed with spears.
                                              > ----- Original Message -----
                                              > From: joseph_pierro
                                              > To: TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com
                                              > Sent: Friday, August 31, 2007 11:34 PM
                                              > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Uncapped muskets?
                                              >
                                              > --- In TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com, Ronald Church
                                              > <rchurch@... > wrote:
                                              >>
                                              >> I have heard it on several occasions that as French's lead
                                              >> brigade
                                              >> (Weber's) approached the Sunken Road they did so with uncapped
                                              > muskets.
                                              >> Is this true?
                                              >>
                                              >> Ron Church
                                              >> Manchester Md
                                              >>
                                              > Carman gives a rather detailed account of the fight made by
                                              > Weber's
                                              > brigade (I can send you the particular passage if you wish),
                                              > but he
                                              > doesn't mention their muskets being uncapped.
                                              >
                                              > It was a well drilled brigade, but new to combat. As others
                                              > have
                                              > remarked, it would not be unique in a unit like that for
                                              > weapons to
                                              > have been kept uncapped in the advance in order to maintain
                                              > fire
                                              > discipline.
                                              >
                                              > --jake
                                              >
                                              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > ____________________________________________________________________________________
                                              > Luggage? GPS? Comic books?
                                              > Check out fitting gifts for grads at Yahoo! Search
                                              > http://search.yahoo.com/search?fr=oni_on_mail&p=graduation+gifts&cs=bz
                                              >
                                              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                              >
                                              >
                                            • G E Mayers
                                              Dear Stephen, IIRC O Rorke and his men did not have time for much anything else... basically switch right from column into battle line and charge! Yr. Obt.
                                              Message 22 of 24 , Sep 3, 2007
                                                Dear Stephen,

                                                IIRC O'Rorke and his men did not have time for much anything
                                                else... basically switch right from column into battle line and
                                                charge!

                                                Yr. Obt. Svt.
                                                G E "Gerry" Mayers

                                                To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
                                                on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
                                                Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from
                                                the Almighty God. --Anonymous
                                                ----- Original Message -----
                                                From: "Stephen Recker" <recker@...>
                                                To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                                                Sent: Saturday, September 01, 2007 5:38 PM
                                                Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Re: Uncapped muskets?


                                                > The first bayonet charge on Little Round Top was Patrick Henry
                                                > O'Rourke
                                                > sending, I believe, the 144th NY over the hill onto a bunch of
                                                > texans.
                                                > He did not take the time to load. It was 'fix bayonets'.
                                                >
                                                > Stephen
                                                >
                                                > On Saturday, September 1, 2007, at 10:02 AM, Scott Hann wrote:
                                                >
                                                >> There's a story about a 1st Corps regiment or brigade going
                                                >> into
                                                >> action at Gettysburg on the First Day with unloaded weapons.
                                                >> The
                                                >> men in the ranks reminded the officers to give the order to
                                                >> load
                                                >> their muskets.
                                                >
                                                >
                                              • Joseph Pierro
                                                That, Gerry, is a universal feeling among infantrymen--hence the added precaution (form an officer s pov) of ordering the weapons to be carried unloaded. A
                                                Message 23 of 24 , Sep 3, 2007
                                                  That, Gerry, is a universal feeling among infantrymen--hence the added precaution (form an officer's pov) of ordering the weapons to be carried unloaded. A solider is much more likely to disobey orders, halt his charge and cap a previously loaded weapon than he will to stop and run through the entire loading sequence.

                                                  I remember when I was in Basic Training many years ago and my platoon was receiving a block of instruction on the use of the bayonet, at the end of which the drill sergeant told us that if our bayonet ever became stuck in the enemy's ribcage, it could be dislodged by firing a round from our weapons.

                                                  To which I politely retorted that if my weapon still had a round in it, the bayonet would not be entering the ******* equation.

                                                  I imagine 19th century soldiers were as practical-minded as I--orders to the contrary notwithstanding. :)

                                                  --jake


                                                  ----- Original Message ----
                                                  From: G E Mayers <gerry1952@...>
                                                  To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                                                  Sent: Monday, September 3, 2007 6:57:53 PM
                                                  Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Re: Uncapped muskets?

                                                  Dear Joseph,

                                                  This "ringing" or "pinging" of the gun barrel is even heard today
                                                  among CW reenactors during safety inspections, thereby insuring a
                                                  cleaned/unfouled barrel.

                                                  I would personally prefer to advance to battle loaded but not
                                                  capped, if I knew I was going to be using the bayonet.

                                                  Yr. Obt. Svt.
                                                  G E "Gerry" Mayers

                                                  To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
                                                  on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
                                                  Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from
                                                  the Almighty God. --Anonymous
                                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                                  From: "Joseph Pierro" <joseph_pierro@ yahoo.com>
                                                  To: <TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com>
                                                  Sent: Saturday, September 01, 2007 10:47 AM
                                                  Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Re: Uncapped muskets?

                                                  > Again, that's not unheard of on either side. If the intention
                                                  > is a bayonet charge, and your concern is getting your attacking
                                                  > force to cover the distance in the shortest time possible, the
                                                  > only way to guarantee that they'll cross the space is to send
                                                  > them in with an unloaded weapon. (Even the most disciplined
                                                  > soldier, when charging under fire, will stop to return it--if
                                                  > he has a loaded weapon. It's human nature.)
                                                  >
                                                  > I've come across one Confederate account from the Seven Days
                                                  > fighting that describes his regiment being forced to "ring our
                                                  > muskets"--dropping the rammer down the barrel of the weapon in
                                                  > the presence of an officer or NCO so that he could hear the
                                                  > "ring" of it striking the empty bottom (as opposed to the dull
                                                  > thud of it striking a ball and wadding).
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  > ----- Original Message ----
                                                  > From: "richard@rcroker. com" <richard@rcroker. com>
                                                  > To: TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com
                                                  > Sent: Saturday, September 1, 2007 9:35:24 AM
                                                  > Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Re: Uncapped muskets?
                                                  >
                                                  > At Fredericksburg, Gen Humphries ordered his men to make the
                                                  > infamaous assault up Marye's Heights with unloaded weapons. Noy
                                                  > only uncapped, but unloaded. This on the advice of Gen. Hooker.
                                                  > The logic was that no one should stop to fire. He even had an
                                                  > inspection to make certain no one had a loaded weapon. His men
                                                  > climbed those heights basically armed with spears.
                                                  > ----- Original Message -----
                                                  > From: joseph_pierro
                                                  > To: TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com
                                                  > Sent: Friday, August 31, 2007 11:34 PM
                                                  > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Uncapped muskets?
                                                  >
                                                  > --- In TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com, Ronald Church
                                                  > <rchurch@... > wrote:
                                                  >>
                                                  >> I have heard it on several occasions that as French's lead
                                                  >> brigade
                                                  >> (Weber's) approached the Sunken Road they did so with uncapped
                                                  > muskets.
                                                  >> Is this true?
                                                  >>
                                                  >> Ron Church
                                                  >> Manchester Md
                                                  >>
                                                  > Carman gives a rather detailed account of the fight made by
                                                  > Weber's
                                                  > brigade (I can send you the particular passage if you wish),
                                                  > but he
                                                  > doesn't mention their muskets being uncapped.
                                                  >
                                                  > It was a well drilled brigade, but new to combat. As others
                                                  > have
                                                  > remarked, it would not be unique in a unit like that for
                                                  > weapons to
                                                  > have been kept uncapped in the advance in order to maintain
                                                  > fire
                                                  > discipline.
                                                  >
                                                  > --jake
                                                  >
                                                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
                                                  > Luggage? GPS? Comic books?
                                                  > Check out fitting gifts for grads at Yahoo! Search
                                                  > http://search. yahoo.com/ search?fr= oni_on_mail& p=graduation+ gifts&cs= bz
                                                  >
                                                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                  >
                                                  >





                                                  ____________________________________________________________________________________
                                                  Park yourself in front of a world of choices in alternative vehicles. Visit the Yahoo! Auto Green Center.
                                                  http://autos.yahoo.com/green_center/

                                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.