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Re: Molly's Hole

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  • Brian Downey
    Hi Scott, I understand Molly s Hole is about 200 yards downstream from the bridge. According to the Carman map for noon on September 17th, the closest unit on
    Message 1 of 11 , Aug 6, 2007
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      Hi Scott,

      I understand Molly's Hole is about 200 yards downstream from the
      bridge. According to the Carman map for noon on September 17th, the
      closest unit on the Federal side of the creek would prob have been the
      2nd Maryland (US) of Nagle's Brigade. Also, the 21st Mass (Ferrerro)
      looks to have passed along the creek through that point between noon
      and one.

      On the other side, until withdrawing about 1 pm, were elements of the
      2nd Georgia (Toombs).

      You might like to get more about Molly's Hole from a local expert :)

      My version of Carman's map showing the situation at noon is online
      here: http://aotw.org/maps.php?map_number=9

      Brian



      --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, "Scott Hann"
      <antietamcollector@...> wrote:
      >
      > Hello members. Is anyone familiar with an area known as "Molly's
      > Hole" (below Burnside Bridge)? If so, what troops were in that area?
      > Thanks very much, Scott
      >
    • Scott Hann
      Brian, Thanks, I owe you big time! This information is invaluable to me. Scott ... the ... the ... (Ferrerro) ... noon ... the ... expert :) ... as Molly s
      Message 2 of 11 , Aug 6, 2007
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        Brian,

        Thanks, I owe you big time! This information is invaluable to me.

        Scott


        --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, "Brian Downey" <bdowney@...>
        wrote:
        >
        > Hi Scott,
        >
        > I understand Molly's Hole is about 200 yards downstream from the
        > bridge. According to the Carman map for noon on September 17th,
        the
        > closest unit on the Federal side of the creek would prob have been
        the
        > 2nd Maryland (US) of Nagle's Brigade. Also, the 21st Mass
        (Ferrerro)
        > looks to have passed along the creek through that point between
        noon
        > and one.
        >
        > On the other side, until withdrawing about 1 pm, were elements of
        the
        > 2nd Georgia (Toombs).
        >
        > You might like to get more about Molly's Hole from a local
        expert :)
        >
        > My version of Carman's map showing the situation at noon is online
        > here: http://aotw.org/maps.php?map_number=9
        >
        > Brian
        >
        >
        >
        > --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, "Scott Hann"
        > <antietamcollector@> wrote:
        > >
        > > Hello members. Is anyone familiar with an area known
        as "Molly's
        > > Hole" (below Burnside Bridge)? If so, what troops were in that
        area?
        > > Thanks very much, Scott
        > >
        >
      • Stephen Recker
        Does anyone know the story of George Batchelder s premonition about his death at Antietam? Thanks. Stephen Recker
        Message 3 of 11 , Aug 10, 2007
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          Does anyone know the story of George Batchelder's premonition about his
          death at Antietam? Thanks.

          Stephen Recker
        • RoteBaron@comcast.net
          Stephen, The book entiteld HARVARD MEMORIAL BIOGRPAHIES is online. For Batchelder s story, please use the huge URL that I posted below. If it fails, let me
          Message 4 of 11 , Aug 10, 2007
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            Stephen,

            The book entiteld HARVARD MEMORIAL BIOGRPAHIES is online. For Batchelder's story,
            please use the huge URL that I posted below. If it fails, let me know.

            Pages 1 thru 11 ares for George Batchelder.
            Page 11 contains references to his premonitions.

            http://books.google.com/books?id=-e4AXtDmj5IC&pg=PA1&lpg=PA1&dq=george+batchelder+antietam&source=web&ots=rjRHJPTP1_&sig=4xwx2MGmU1_Nsp-mNKSrq5Pznbg#PPA1,M1

            Tom Shay

            -------------- Original message --------------
            From: Stephen Recker <recker@...>
            Does anyone know the story of George Batchelder's premonition about his
            death at Antietam? Thanks.

            Stephen Recker




            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Marc73@aol.com
            What I found interesting was the fact when he was near death, he mentioned his mother. Countless times I have read about soldiers during the civil war on both
            Message 5 of 11 , Aug 10, 2007
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              What I found interesting was the fact when he was near death, he mentioned his mother. Countless times I have read about soldiers during the civil war on both sides mentioning or calling for their mother as death neared.

              Marc Riddell 83rd PVI
              2nd USSS
              Potomac Legion


              -----Original Message-----
              From: RoteBaron@...
              To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Fri, 10 Aug 2007 11:53 am
              Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] George W. Batchelder 19th MA






              Stephen,

              The book entiteld HARVARD MEMORIAL BIOGRPAHIES is online. For Batchelder's story,
              please use the huge URL that I posted below. If it fails, let me know.

              Pages 1 thru 11 ares for George Batchelder.
              Page 11 contains references to his premonitions.

              http://books.google.com/books?id=-e4AXtDmj5IC&pg=PA1&lpg=PA1&dq=george+batchelder+antietam&source=web&ots=rjRHJPTP1_&sig=4xwx2MGmU1_Nsp-mNKSrq5Pznbg#PPA1,M1

              Tom Shay

              -------------- Original message --------------
              From: Stephen Recker <recker@...>
              Does anyone know the story of George Batchelder's premonition about his
              death at Antietam? Thanks.

              Stephen Recker

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





              ________________________________________________________________________
              AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com.


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Stephen Recker
              Tom, Excellent. Simply amazing. Cheers, Stephen
              Message 6 of 11 , Aug 10, 2007
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                Tom,

                Excellent. Simply amazing.

                Cheers,
                Stephen

                On Friday, August 10, 2007, at 11:53 AM, RoteBaron@... wrote:

                > The book entiteld HARVARD MEMORIAL BIOGRPAHIES is online. For
                > Batchelder's story,
                > please use the huge URL that I posted below. If it fails, let me know.
                >
                > Pages 1 thru 11 ares for George Batchelder.
                > Page 11 contains references to his premonitions.
              • Scott Hann
                ... his ... , Stephen Recker ... his ... Steve, This account is taken from pages 131-132 of the reprint of
                Message 7 of 11 , Aug 11, 2007
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                  --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, Stephen Recker <recker@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Does anyone know the story of George Batchelder's premonition about
                  his
                  > death at Antietam? Thanks.
                  >
                  > Stephen Recker
                  >

                  --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                  <mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com> , Stephen Recker <recker@...>
                  wrote:
                  >
                  > Does anyone know the story of George Batchelder's premonition about
                  his
                  > death at Antietam? Thanks.
                  >
                  > Stephen Recker
                  >

                  Steve,

                  This account is taken from pages 131-132 of the reprint of "History of
                  the Nineteenth Regiment Massachusetts Volunteer Infantry 1861-1865," by
                  Ernest Linden Waitt. If you need more information about Bachelder let
                  me know. I have transcripts of letters he wrote to the Salem newspapers
                  while a member of the 8th as well as the 19th Massachusetts. In
                  particular there's a poignant letter he wrote to his sister days before
                  he was killed.

                  Scott

                  "On the night of Sept. 16, 1862, while the destiny of a nation remained
                  undecided, and while the fate of a multitude of soldiers was obviously
                  pending, it is not strange that the minds of the combatants were imbued
                  with unusual solemnity. Lossing remarks that "the night of the 16th was
                  passed by both armies with the expectation of a heavy battle in the
                  morning. Few officers found relief from anxiety, for it was believed by
                  many that it might be the turning point of the war."
                  Capt. George W. Bachelder and Second Lieut. Edgar M.
                  Newcomb of Company C were fast friends and as they were about to turn
                  in for night, on this eve of the battle of Antietam, Bachelder asked his
                  junior officer, as he sat reading his Bible, to read a chapter
                  aloud. Surprised at the captain's request, he happily complied
                  and was asked to continue until several chapters had been read. Then,
                  under the same blanket, they lay down to rest, but not to sleep,
                  for Capt. Bachelder, as if forewarned of the fate which was to be his
                  within a few hours, talked as he never had before to Newcomb in regard
                  to the affairs of the company; telling him, among other things, of
                  certain money, "The Company Fund," which he had from time to time
                  sent home to his father in Lynn for safe keeping, advising him in regard
                  to matters pertaining to the company and making in general such
                  arrangements as one would make if taking leave of them forever. Then
                  they slept,—Capt. Bachelder his last on earth, for he was killed in
                  the battle of the following day; Newcomb being spared, but to
                  answer the final summons in the next battle,—Fredericksburg.







                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • G E Mayers
                  Unbelievable........a true gentle man... I wonder how many others of both sides had similar premonitions of death at Sharpsburg on that fateful day and
                  Message 8 of 11 , Aug 13, 2007
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                    Unbelievable........a true "gentle" man... I wonder how many
                    others of both sides had similar premonitions of death at
                    Sharpsburg on that fateful day and handled their final affairs
                    with the same thoughtfulness and courage?

                    Yr. Obt. Svt.
                    G E "Gerry" Mayers

                    To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
                    on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
                    Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from
                    the Almighty God. --Anonymous
                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: <RoteBaron@...>
                    To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                    Sent: Friday, August 10, 2007 11:53 AM
                    Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] George W. Batchelder 19th MA


                    > Stephen,
                    >
                    > The book entiteld HARVARD MEMORIAL BIOGRPAHIES is online. For
                    > Batchelder's story,
                    > please use the huge URL that I posted below. If it fails, let
                    > me know.
                    >
                    > Pages 1 thru 11 ares for George Batchelder.
                    > Page 11 contains references to his premonitions.
                    >
                    > http://books.google.com/books?id=-e4AXtDmj5IC&pg=PA1&lpg=PA1&dq=george+batchelder+antietam&source=web&ots=rjRHJPTP1_&sig=4xwx2MGmU1_Nsp-mNKSrq5Pznbg#PPA1,M1
                    >
                    > Tom Shay
                    >
                    > -------------- Original message --------------
                    > From: Stephen Recker <recker@...>
                    > Does anyone know the story of George Batchelder's premonition
                    > about his
                    > death at Antietam? Thanks.
                    >
                    > Stephen Recker
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >
                    >
                  • richard@rcroker.com
                    When I can across Sam Zook s premonition of death prior to Fredericksburg, I almost left it out...I thought it was too much of a cliche. Since he confided it
                    Message 9 of 11 , Aug 13, 2007
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                      When I can across Sam Zook's premonition of death prior to Fredericksburg, I almost left it out...I thought it was too much of a cliche. Since he confided it to Hancock the night before, I felt like I had to leave it in and let the fiction critics hammar me for it. What the heck -- I already had a frail, stuttering Irishman...
                      What I guess I'm saying is, it's not much of a stretch to suggest that virtually every soldier has such thoughts "just before the battle..."
                      ----- Original Message -----
                      From: G E Mayers
                      To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Monday, August 13, 2007 8:29 PM
                      Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] George W. Batchelder 19th MA


                      Unbelievable........a true "gentle" man... I wonder how many
                      others of both sides had similar premonitions of death at
                      Sharpsburg on that fateful day and handled their final affairs
                      with the same thoughtfulness and courage?

                      Yr. Obt. Svt.
                      G E "Gerry" Mayers

                      To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
                      on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
                      Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from
                      the Almighty God. --Anonymous
                      ----- Original Message -----
                      From: <RoteBaron@...>
                      To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                      Sent: Friday, August 10, 2007 11:53 AM
                      Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] George W. Batchelder 19th MA

                      > Stephen,
                      >
                      > The book entiteld HARVARD MEMORIAL BIOGRPAHIES is online. For
                      > Batchelder's story,
                      > please use the huge URL that I posted below. If it fails, let
                      > me know.
                      >
                      > Pages 1 thru 11 ares for George Batchelder.
                      > Page 11 contains references to his premonitions.
                      >
                      > http://books.google.com/books?id=-e4AXtDmj5IC&pg=PA1&lpg=PA1&dq=george+batchelder+antietam&source=web&ots=rjRHJPTP1_&sig=4xwx2MGmU1_Nsp-mNKSrq5Pznbg#PPA1,M1
                      >
                      > Tom Shay
                      >
                      > -------------- Original message --------------
                      > From: Stephen Recker <recker@...>
                      > Does anyone know the story of George Batchelder's premonition
                      > about his
                      > death at Antietam? Thanks.
                      >
                      > Stephen Recker
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >
                      >





                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • barringer63
                      ... Fredericksburg, I almost left it out...I thought it was too much of a cliche. Since he confided it to Hancock the night before, I felt like I had to leave
                      Message 10 of 11 , Aug 13, 2007
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                        Richard Croker wrote:
                        >
                        > When I can across Sam Zook's premonition of death prior to
                        Fredericksburg, I almost left it out...I thought it was too much of a
                        cliche. Since he confided it to Hancock the night before, I felt like
                        I had to leave it in and let the fiction critics hammar me for it.
                        What the heck -- I already had a frail, stuttering Irishman...
                        > What I guess I'm saying is, it's not much of a stretch to suggest
                        that virtually every soldier has such thoughts "just before the
                        battle..."

                        Then there's the private who before every battle, wrote in his
                        journal, "today I was killed." IIRC, he survived the war. :-)

                        Teej
                        >
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