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Molly's Hole

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  • Scott Hann
    Hello members. Is anyone familiar with an area known as Molly s Hole (below Burnside Bridge)? If so, what troops were in that area? Thanks very much, Scott
    Message 1 of 11 , Aug 6, 2007
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      Hello members. Is anyone familiar with an area known as "Molly's
      Hole" (below Burnside Bridge)? If so, what troops were in that area?
      Thanks very much, Scott
    • Brian Downey
      Hi Scott, I understand Molly s Hole is about 200 yards downstream from the bridge. According to the Carman map for noon on September 17th, the closest unit on
      Message 2 of 11 , Aug 6, 2007
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        Hi Scott,

        I understand Molly's Hole is about 200 yards downstream from the
        bridge. According to the Carman map for noon on September 17th, the
        closest unit on the Federal side of the creek would prob have been the
        2nd Maryland (US) of Nagle's Brigade. Also, the 21st Mass (Ferrerro)
        looks to have passed along the creek through that point between noon
        and one.

        On the other side, until withdrawing about 1 pm, were elements of the
        2nd Georgia (Toombs).

        You might like to get more about Molly's Hole from a local expert :)

        My version of Carman's map showing the situation at noon is online
        here: http://aotw.org/maps.php?map_number=9

        Brian



        --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, "Scott Hann"
        <antietamcollector@...> wrote:
        >
        > Hello members. Is anyone familiar with an area known as "Molly's
        > Hole" (below Burnside Bridge)? If so, what troops were in that area?
        > Thanks very much, Scott
        >
      • Scott Hann
        Brian, Thanks, I owe you big time! This information is invaluable to me. Scott ... the ... the ... (Ferrerro) ... noon ... the ... expert :) ... as Molly s
        Message 3 of 11 , Aug 6, 2007
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          Brian,

          Thanks, I owe you big time! This information is invaluable to me.

          Scott


          --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, "Brian Downey" <bdowney@...>
          wrote:
          >
          > Hi Scott,
          >
          > I understand Molly's Hole is about 200 yards downstream from the
          > bridge. According to the Carman map for noon on September 17th,
          the
          > closest unit on the Federal side of the creek would prob have been
          the
          > 2nd Maryland (US) of Nagle's Brigade. Also, the 21st Mass
          (Ferrerro)
          > looks to have passed along the creek through that point between
          noon
          > and one.
          >
          > On the other side, until withdrawing about 1 pm, were elements of
          the
          > 2nd Georgia (Toombs).
          >
          > You might like to get more about Molly's Hole from a local
          expert :)
          >
          > My version of Carman's map showing the situation at noon is online
          > here: http://aotw.org/maps.php?map_number=9
          >
          > Brian
          >
          >
          >
          > --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, "Scott Hann"
          > <antietamcollector@> wrote:
          > >
          > > Hello members. Is anyone familiar with an area known
          as "Molly's
          > > Hole" (below Burnside Bridge)? If so, what troops were in that
          area?
          > > Thanks very much, Scott
          > >
          >
        • Stephen Recker
          Does anyone know the story of George Batchelder s premonition about his death at Antietam? Thanks. Stephen Recker
          Message 4 of 11 , Aug 10, 2007
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            Does anyone know the story of George Batchelder's premonition about his
            death at Antietam? Thanks.

            Stephen Recker
          • RoteBaron@comcast.net
            Stephen, The book entiteld HARVARD MEMORIAL BIOGRPAHIES is online. For Batchelder s story, please use the huge URL that I posted below. If it fails, let me
            Message 5 of 11 , Aug 10, 2007
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              Stephen,

              The book entiteld HARVARD MEMORIAL BIOGRPAHIES is online. For Batchelder's story,
              please use the huge URL that I posted below. If it fails, let me know.

              Pages 1 thru 11 ares for George Batchelder.
              Page 11 contains references to his premonitions.

              http://books.google.com/books?id=-e4AXtDmj5IC&pg=PA1&lpg=PA1&dq=george+batchelder+antietam&source=web&ots=rjRHJPTP1_&sig=4xwx2MGmU1_Nsp-mNKSrq5Pznbg#PPA1,M1

              Tom Shay

              -------------- Original message --------------
              From: Stephen Recker <recker@...>
              Does anyone know the story of George Batchelder's premonition about his
              death at Antietam? Thanks.

              Stephen Recker




              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Marc73@aol.com
              What I found interesting was the fact when he was near death, he mentioned his mother. Countless times I have read about soldiers during the civil war on both
              Message 6 of 11 , Aug 10, 2007
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                What I found interesting was the fact when he was near death, he mentioned his mother. Countless times I have read about soldiers during the civil war on both sides mentioning or calling for their mother as death neared.

                Marc Riddell 83rd PVI
                2nd USSS
                Potomac Legion


                -----Original Message-----
                From: RoteBaron@...
                To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Fri, 10 Aug 2007 11:53 am
                Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] George W. Batchelder 19th MA






                Stephen,

                The book entiteld HARVARD MEMORIAL BIOGRPAHIES is online. For Batchelder's story,
                please use the huge URL that I posted below. If it fails, let me know.

                Pages 1 thru 11 ares for George Batchelder.
                Page 11 contains references to his premonitions.

                http://books.google.com/books?id=-e4AXtDmj5IC&pg=PA1&lpg=PA1&dq=george+batchelder+antietam&source=web&ots=rjRHJPTP1_&sig=4xwx2MGmU1_Nsp-mNKSrq5Pznbg#PPA1,M1

                Tom Shay

                -------------- Original message --------------
                From: Stephen Recker <recker@...>
                Does anyone know the story of George Batchelder's premonition about his
                death at Antietam? Thanks.

                Stephen Recker

                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                ________________________________________________________________________
                AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com.


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Stephen Recker
                Tom, Excellent. Simply amazing. Cheers, Stephen
                Message 7 of 11 , Aug 10, 2007
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                  Tom,

                  Excellent. Simply amazing.

                  Cheers,
                  Stephen

                  On Friday, August 10, 2007, at 11:53 AM, RoteBaron@... wrote:

                  > The book entiteld HARVARD MEMORIAL BIOGRPAHIES is online. For
                  > Batchelder's story,
                  > please use the huge URL that I posted below. If it fails, let me know.
                  >
                  > Pages 1 thru 11 ares for George Batchelder.
                  > Page 11 contains references to his premonitions.
                • Scott Hann
                  ... his ... , Stephen Recker ... his ... Steve, This account is taken from pages 131-132 of the reprint of
                  Message 8 of 11 , Aug 11, 2007
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                    --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, Stephen Recker <recker@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Does anyone know the story of George Batchelder's premonition about
                    his
                    > death at Antietam? Thanks.
                    >
                    > Stephen Recker
                    >

                    --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                    <mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com> , Stephen Recker <recker@...>
                    wrote:
                    >
                    > Does anyone know the story of George Batchelder's premonition about
                    his
                    > death at Antietam? Thanks.
                    >
                    > Stephen Recker
                    >

                    Steve,

                    This account is taken from pages 131-132 of the reprint of "History of
                    the Nineteenth Regiment Massachusetts Volunteer Infantry 1861-1865," by
                    Ernest Linden Waitt. If you need more information about Bachelder let
                    me know. I have transcripts of letters he wrote to the Salem newspapers
                    while a member of the 8th as well as the 19th Massachusetts. In
                    particular there's a poignant letter he wrote to his sister days before
                    he was killed.

                    Scott

                    "On the night of Sept. 16, 1862, while the destiny of a nation remained
                    undecided, and while the fate of a multitude of soldiers was obviously
                    pending, it is not strange that the minds of the combatants were imbued
                    with unusual solemnity. Lossing remarks that "the night of the 16th was
                    passed by both armies with the expectation of a heavy battle in the
                    morning. Few officers found relief from anxiety, for it was believed by
                    many that it might be the turning point of the war."
                    Capt. George W. Bachelder and Second Lieut. Edgar M.
                    Newcomb of Company C were fast friends and as they were about to turn
                    in for night, on this eve of the battle of Antietam, Bachelder asked his
                    junior officer, as he sat reading his Bible, to read a chapter
                    aloud. Surprised at the captain's request, he happily complied
                    and was asked to continue until several chapters had been read. Then,
                    under the same blanket, they lay down to rest, but not to sleep,
                    for Capt. Bachelder, as if forewarned of the fate which was to be his
                    within a few hours, talked as he never had before to Newcomb in regard
                    to the affairs of the company; telling him, among other things, of
                    certain money, "The Company Fund," which he had from time to time
                    sent home to his father in Lynn for safe keeping, advising him in regard
                    to matters pertaining to the company and making in general such
                    arrangements as one would make if taking leave of them forever. Then
                    they slept,—Capt. Bachelder his last on earth, for he was killed in
                    the battle of the following day; Newcomb being spared, but to
                    answer the final summons in the next battle,—Fredericksburg.







                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • G E Mayers
                    Unbelievable........a true gentle man... I wonder how many others of both sides had similar premonitions of death at Sharpsburg on that fateful day and
                    Message 9 of 11 , Aug 13, 2007
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                      Unbelievable........a true "gentle" man... I wonder how many
                      others of both sides had similar premonitions of death at
                      Sharpsburg on that fateful day and handled their final affairs
                      with the same thoughtfulness and courage?

                      Yr. Obt. Svt.
                      G E "Gerry" Mayers

                      To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
                      on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
                      Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from
                      the Almighty God. --Anonymous
                      ----- Original Message -----
                      From: <RoteBaron@...>
                      To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                      Sent: Friday, August 10, 2007 11:53 AM
                      Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] George W. Batchelder 19th MA


                      > Stephen,
                      >
                      > The book entiteld HARVARD MEMORIAL BIOGRPAHIES is online. For
                      > Batchelder's story,
                      > please use the huge URL that I posted below. If it fails, let
                      > me know.
                      >
                      > Pages 1 thru 11 ares for George Batchelder.
                      > Page 11 contains references to his premonitions.
                      >
                      > http://books.google.com/books?id=-e4AXtDmj5IC&pg=PA1&lpg=PA1&dq=george+batchelder+antietam&source=web&ots=rjRHJPTP1_&sig=4xwx2MGmU1_Nsp-mNKSrq5Pznbg#PPA1,M1
                      >
                      > Tom Shay
                      >
                      > -------------- Original message --------------
                      > From: Stephen Recker <recker@...>
                      > Does anyone know the story of George Batchelder's premonition
                      > about his
                      > death at Antietam? Thanks.
                      >
                      > Stephen Recker
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >
                      >
                    • richard@rcroker.com
                      When I can across Sam Zook s premonition of death prior to Fredericksburg, I almost left it out...I thought it was too much of a cliche. Since he confided it
                      Message 10 of 11 , Aug 13, 2007
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                        When I can across Sam Zook's premonition of death prior to Fredericksburg, I almost left it out...I thought it was too much of a cliche. Since he confided it to Hancock the night before, I felt like I had to leave it in and let the fiction critics hammar me for it. What the heck -- I already had a frail, stuttering Irishman...
                        What I guess I'm saying is, it's not much of a stretch to suggest that virtually every soldier has such thoughts "just before the battle..."
                        ----- Original Message -----
                        From: G E Mayers
                        To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                        Sent: Monday, August 13, 2007 8:29 PM
                        Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] George W. Batchelder 19th MA


                        Unbelievable........a true "gentle" man... I wonder how many
                        others of both sides had similar premonitions of death at
                        Sharpsburg on that fateful day and handled their final affairs
                        with the same thoughtfulness and courage?

                        Yr. Obt. Svt.
                        G E "Gerry" Mayers

                        To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
                        on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
                        Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from
                        the Almighty God. --Anonymous
                        ----- Original Message -----
                        From: <RoteBaron@...>
                        To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                        Sent: Friday, August 10, 2007 11:53 AM
                        Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] George W. Batchelder 19th MA

                        > Stephen,
                        >
                        > The book entiteld HARVARD MEMORIAL BIOGRPAHIES is online. For
                        > Batchelder's story,
                        > please use the huge URL that I posted below. If it fails, let
                        > me know.
                        >
                        > Pages 1 thru 11 ares for George Batchelder.
                        > Page 11 contains references to his premonitions.
                        >
                        > http://books.google.com/books?id=-e4AXtDmj5IC&pg=PA1&lpg=PA1&dq=george+batchelder+antietam&source=web&ots=rjRHJPTP1_&sig=4xwx2MGmU1_Nsp-mNKSrq5Pznbg#PPA1,M1
                        >
                        > Tom Shay
                        >
                        > -------------- Original message --------------
                        > From: Stephen Recker <recker@...>
                        > Does anyone know the story of George Batchelder's premonition
                        > about his
                        > death at Antietam? Thanks.
                        >
                        > Stephen Recker
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        >
                        >





                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • barringer63
                        ... Fredericksburg, I almost left it out...I thought it was too much of a cliche. Since he confided it to Hancock the night before, I felt like I had to leave
                        Message 11 of 11 , Aug 13, 2007
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                          Richard Croker wrote:
                          >
                          > When I can across Sam Zook's premonition of death prior to
                          Fredericksburg, I almost left it out...I thought it was too much of a
                          cliche. Since he confided it to Hancock the night before, I felt like
                          I had to leave it in and let the fiction critics hammar me for it.
                          What the heck -- I already had a frail, stuttering Irishman...
                          > What I guess I'm saying is, it's not much of a stretch to suggest
                          that virtually every soldier has such thoughts "just before the
                          battle..."

                          Then there's the private who before every battle, wrote in his
                          journal, "today I was killed." IIRC, he survived the war. :-)

                          Teej
                          >
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