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Re: [TalkAntietam] South Mountain

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  • Stephen Recker
    Thanks guys. I ll head out right now. Stephen ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    Message 1 of 25 , Apr 13, 2007
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      Thanks guys. I'll head out right now.

      Stephen

      On Thursday, April 12, 2007, at 11:04 PM, Ronald Church wrote:

      > The name of the road is Dahlgren Road. It's about a mile long and joins
      > with Frost Town Road which connects to Mount Tabor Road which loops
      > back
      > into and back into Alt. 40 opposite Bolivar Road. If you haven't
      > driven the
      > loop I highly recommend it. I recommend starting at Mt. Tabor Road. The
      > last half of it heading up toward the crest will reveal some of the
      > most
      > Godawful terrain imagineable for an attack. Imagine the boys in blue
      > down
      > at the bottom at Frost Town Road where they assembled, having to
      > attack up
      > the hill toward the crest. Has to be seen to be appreciated.
      > Ron Church
      > Manchester MD
      >
      > ----- Original Message -----
      > From: "Harry Smeltzer" <hjs21@...>
      > To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
      > Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2007 10:12 PM
      > Subject: RE: [TalkAntietam] South Mountain
      >
      > > Just east of the Dahlgren Chapel there's a road that takes you up to
      > a
      > > good
      > > spot. Tom Clemens can help you with the road name.and will warn you
      > of
      > > the
      > > dangers of trying to get a tour bus up there!
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > Harry
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > -----Original Message-----
      > > From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
      > [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com]
      > > On
      > > Behalf Of Stephen Recker
      > > Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2007 5:42 PM
      > > To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
      > > Subject: [TalkAntietam] South Mountain
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > Where is the best place to interpret the Turner's Gap action north of
      > > the National Pike? I'm talking about George Gordon Meade. I'm looking
      > > for a modern road name. Thanks.
      > >
      > > Stephen
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > Yahoo! Groups Links
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      >
      >

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • rchurch@qis.net
      Meade s forces generally fanned out across the low area and drove up the ravine on your right. Hatch followed Dahlgren Road for several hundred yards beyond
      Message 2 of 25 , Apr 13, 2007
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        Meade's forces generally fanned out across the low area and drove up the ravine
        on your right. Hatch followed Dahlgren Road for several hundred yards beyond
        Frost Town Road then turned left off of the road and advanced up the hill
        through heavy woods on the left. Wish I could be there with you.

        Ron




        Quoting Stephen Recker <recker@...>:

        > Thanks guys. I'll head out right now.
        >
        > Stephen
        >
        > On Thursday, April 12, 2007, at 11:04 PM, Ronald Church wrote:
        >
        > > The name of the road is Dahlgren Road. It's about a mile long and joins
        > > with Frost Town Road which connects to Mount Tabor Road which loops
        > > back
        > > into and back into Alt. 40 opposite Bolivar Road. If you haven't
        > > driven the
        > > loop I highly recommend it. I recommend starting at Mt. Tabor Road. The
        > > last half of it heading up toward the crest will reveal some of the
        > > most
        > > Godawful terrain imagineable for an attack. Imagine the boys in blue
        > > down
        > > at the bottom at Frost Town Road where they assembled, having to
        > > attack up
        > > the hill toward the crest. Has to be seen to be appreciated.
        > > Ron Church
        > > Manchester MD
        > >
        > > ----- Original Message -----
        > > From: "Harry Smeltzer" <hjs21@...>
        > > To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
        > > Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2007 10:12 PM
        > > Subject: RE: [TalkAntietam] South Mountain
        > >
        > > > Just east of the Dahlgren Chapel there's a road that takes you up to
        > > a
        > > > good
        > > > spot. Tom Clemens can help you with the road name.and will warn you
        > > of
        > > > the
        > > > dangers of trying to get a tour bus up there!
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > Harry
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > -----Original Message-----
        > > > From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
        > > [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com]
        > > > On
        > > > Behalf Of Stephen Recker
        > > > Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2007 5:42 PM
        > > > To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
        > > > Subject: [TalkAntietam] South Mountain
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > Where is the best place to interpret the Turner's Gap action north of
        > > > the National Pike? I'm talking about George Gordon Meade. I'm looking
        > > > for a modern road name. Thanks.
        > > >
        > > > Stephen
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > >
        > >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        >
        >
      • Thomas Clemens
        Stephen, You can also head to Zittlestown Road and the MD Park entrance, turn right and then right again, following signs for Skycroft. That road takes you
        Message 3 of 25 , Apr 13, 2007
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          Stephen,
          You can also head to Zittlestown Road and the MD Park entrance, turn right and then right again, following signs for Skycroft. That road takes you down the other side of the ravine where Meade attacked and is also a way to view the field.
          And Harry, Bite me! :-)

          Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
          Professor of History
          Hagerstown Community College


          >>> Stephen Recker <recker@...> 04/13/07 8:32 AM >>>
          Thanks guys. I'll head out right now.

          Stephen

          On Thursday, April 12, 2007, at 11:04 PM, Ronald Church wrote:

          > The name of the road is Dahlgren Road. It's about a mile long and joins
          > with Frost Town Road which connects to Mount Tabor Road which loops
          > back
          > into and back into Alt. 40 opposite Bolivar Road. If you haven't
          > driven the
          > loop I highly recommend it. I recommend starting at Mt. Tabor Road. The
          > last half of it heading up toward the crest will reveal some of the
          > most
          > Godawful terrain imagineable for an attack. Imagine the boys in blue
          > down
          > at the bottom at Frost Town Road where they assembled, having to
          > attack up
          > the hill toward the crest. Has to be seen to be appreciated.
          > Ron Church
          > Manchester MD
          >
          > ----- Original Message -----
          > From: "Harry Smeltzer" <hjs21@...>
          > To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
          > Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2007 10:12 PM
          > Subject: RE: [TalkAntietam] South Mountain
          >
          > > Just east of the Dahlgren Chapel there's a road that takes you up to
          > a
          > > good
          > > spot. Tom Clemens can help you with the road name.and will warn you
          > of
          > > the
          > > dangers of trying to get a tour bus up there!
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > Harry
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > -----Original Message-----
          > > From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
          > [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com]
          > > On
          > > Behalf Of Stephen Recker
          > > Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2007 5:42 PM
          > > To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
          > > Subject: [TalkAntietam] South Mountain
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > Where is the best place to interpret the Turner's Gap action north of
          > > the National Pike? I'm talking about George Gordon Meade. I'm looking
          > > for a modern road name. Thanks.
          > >
          > > Stephen
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > Yahoo! Groups Links
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          >
          >

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





          Yahoo! Groups Links
        • jdpolaski@aol.com
          I have a good question for the group. Does anyone know of Signal flags being used at the Washington Monument? And if so what units were they and what
          Message 4 of 25 , Apr 13, 2007
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            I have a good question for the group. Does anyone know of Signal flags being
            used at the Washington Monument? And if so what units were they and what
            communications did they send out.



            ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Adam Zimmerli
            According to Edward Porter Alexander: I was riding with Gen. Lee when we came within a mile or two of the fight [for Turner s Gap] & some one discovered a
            Message 5 of 25 , Apr 13, 2007
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              According to Edward Porter Alexander:
              "I was riding with Gen. Lee when we came within a mile or two of the
              fight [for Turner's Gap] & some one discovered a small party of
              people on what seemed to be an old tower on the mountain top [the
              Washington Monument] about a mile north of the pass. There were some
              indications that it might be a signal party of the enemy sending
              messages of our approach, &, itching to have some personal role in
              a fight, I suggested to Gen. Lee that I might take a few men & go
              recapture it. He approved & had eight men sent with me from some
              brigade, I forget whose. I got in cover of some woods & then struck
              up the mountain side &, after a hard, hot climb, at last got up &
              around the tower (which seemed to have been built originally for a
              windmill) before the party on it knew of my approach. But they were
              plainly all natives of the vicinity attracted by the firing and up
              there to see the battle. I was quite disgusted at the peaceful
              character of my capture & left them after seeing that the position
              gave no valuable view of the enemy's ground & I pushed on to the
              front & right, towards the firing." Pages 142-143, Fighting for the
              Confederacy.

              According to the footnotes of the book, the tower was actually
              effectively in ruins by 1862. If EPA didn't think it gave a good
              view of the federals, could the same be said of the confederate army
              moving out of Boonsboro? I wonder, since it would be something one
              would assume he would think about.

              Anybody know where the 8 men came from?

              --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, jdpolaski@... wrote:
              >
              > I have a good question for the group. Does anyone know of Signal
              flags being
              > used at the Washington Monument? And if so what units were they
              and what
              > communications did they send out.
              >
              >
              >
              > ************************************** See what's free at
              http://www.aol.com
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
            • Stephen Recker
              Tom, That is great. Thanks. Now I ll just stand back out of the way... Stephen
              Message 6 of 25 , Apr 13, 2007
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                Tom,

                That is great. Thanks.

                Now I'll just stand back out of the way...<g>

                Stephen




                On Friday, April 13, 2007, at 03:53 PM, Thomas Clemens wrote:

                > Stephen,
                > You can also head to Zittlestown Road and the MD Park entrance, turn
                > right and then right again, following signs for Skycroft. That road
                > takes you down the other side of the ravine where Meade attacked and
                > is also a way to view the field.
                > And Harry, Bite me! :-)
                >
                > Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
                > Professor of History
                > Hagerstown Community College
              • Thomas Clemens
                It would have been more useful to the the Union thant the COnfederates, but EPA s account is the only real solid mention of it. It was uded i nthe Gettysburg
                Message 7 of 25 , Apr 14, 2007
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                  It would have been more useful to the the Union thant the COnfederates, but EPA's account is the only real solid mention of it. It was uded i nthe Gettysburg by Union signalman, including Wm. J. L. Nicodemus.


                  Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
                  Professor of History
                  Hagerstown Community College


                  >>> "Adam Zimmerli" <azimmerli@...> 04/13/07 6:56 PM >>>
                  According to Edward Porter Alexander:
                  "I was riding with Gen. Lee when we came within a mile or two of the
                  fight [for Turner's Gap] & some one discovered a small party of
                  people on what seemed to be an old tower on the mountain top [the
                  Washington Monument] about a mile north of the pass. There were some
                  indications that it might be a signal party of the enemy sending
                  messages of our approach, &, itching to have some personal role in
                  a fight, I suggested to Gen. Lee that I might take a few men & go
                  recapture it. He approved & had eight men sent with me from some
                  brigade, I forget whose. I got in cover of some woods & then struck
                  up the mountain side &, after a hard, hot climb, at last got up &
                  around the tower (which seemed to have been built originally for a
                  windmill) before the party on it knew of my approach. But they were
                  plainly all natives of the vicinity attracted by the firing and up
                  there to see the battle. I was quite disgusted at the peaceful
                  character of my capture & left them after seeing that the position
                  gave no valuable view of the enemy's ground & I pushed on to the
                  front & right, towards the firing." Pages 142-143, Fighting for the
                  Confederacy.

                  According to the footnotes of the book, the tower was actually
                  effectively in ruins by 1862. If EPA didn't think it gave a good
                  view of the federals, could the same be said of the confederate army
                  moving out of Boonsboro? I wonder, since it would be something one
                  would assume he would think about.

                  Anybody know where the 8 men came from?

                  --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, jdpolaski@... wrote:
                  >
                  > I have a good question for the group. Does anyone know of Signal
                  flags being
                  > used at the Washington Monument? And if so what units were they
                  and what
                  > communications did they send out.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > ************************************** See what's free at
                  http://www.aol.com
                  >
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                • Stephen Recker
                  Does anyone know of any writings regarding trouble citizens of Maryland got into for joining Lee s army during the Maryland Campaign? Thanks. Stephen
                  Message 8 of 25 , Apr 19, 2007
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                    Does anyone know of any writings regarding trouble citizens of Maryland
                    got into for joining Lee's army during the Maryland Campaign? Thanks.

                    Stephen
                  • G E Mayers
                    Stephen, Not sure, but there is an interesting account of a citizen of Pennsylvania who left the state to try to jine up with Lee s Army during the same
                    Message 9 of 25 , Apr 19, 2007
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                      Stephen,

                      Not sure, but there is an interesting account of a citizen of
                      Pennsylvania who left the state to try to jine up with Lee's Army
                      during the same campaign, was captured and then when he returned home
                      to his home town under guard as a prisoner of war, it got dicey for a
                      bit.

                      Scott Mingus Sr. might be able to give you the story if you contact
                      him at scottmingus@...

                      Yr. Obt. Svt.
                      G E "Gerry" Mayers

                      To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even on
                      one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the Union, a
                      passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from the Almighty
                      God. --Anonymous
                      ----- Original Message -----
                      From: "Stephen Recker" <recker@...>
                      To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                      Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2007 9:00 PM
                      Subject: [TalkAntietam] Treason?


                      > Does anyone know of any writings regarding trouble citizens of
                      > Maryland
                      > got into for joining Lee's army during the Maryland Campaign?
                      > Thanks.
                      >
                      > Stephen
                      >
                      >
                    • Stephen Recker
                      Thanks. maybe it s in his new book. Stephen
                      Message 10 of 25 , Apr 19, 2007
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                        Thanks. maybe it's in his new book.

                        Stephen

                        On Thursday, April 19, 2007, at 09:08 PM, G E Mayers wrote:

                        > Not sure, but there is an interesting account of a citizen of
                        > Pennsylvania who left the state to try to jine up with Lee's Army
                        > during the same campaign, was captured and then when he returned home
                        > to his home town under guard as a prisoner of war, it got dicey for a
                        > bit.
                      • G E Mayers
                        Stephen, Yes, it is. Yr. Obt. Svt. G E Gerry Mayers To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even on one s mother s side, is an
                        Message 11 of 25 , Apr 20, 2007
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                          Stephen,

                          Yes, it is.

                          Yr. Obt. Svt.
                          G E "Gerry" Mayers

                          To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even on
                          one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the Union, a
                          passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from the Almighty
                          God. --Anonymous
                          ----- Original Message -----
                          From: "Stephen Recker" <recker@...>
                          To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                          Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2007 9:40 PM
                          Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Treason?


                          > Thanks. maybe it's in his new book.
                          >
                          > Stephen
                          >
                          > On Thursday, April 19, 2007, at 09:08 PM, G E Mayers wrote:
                          >
                          >> Not sure, but there is an interesting account of a citizen of
                          >> Pennsylvania who left the state to try to jine up with Lee's Army
                          >> during the same campaign, was captured and then when he returned
                          >> home
                          >> to his home town under guard as a prisoner of war, it got dicey for
                          >> a
                          >> bit.
                          >
                          >
                        • colliszouave@yahoo.com
                          Besides John Hoptak s book and the work of Carman, edited and annotated by Clemens, what others are must-haves re: South Mountain? Respectfully, Mike Peters
                          Message 12 of 25 , Apr 17, 2011
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                            Besides John Hoptak's book and the work of Carman, edited and annotated by Clemens, what others are "must-haves" re: South Mountain?

                            Respectfully,

                            Mike Peters
                            Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
                          • G E Mayers
                            Mike; Although it does have many errors in it, I would still recommend J M Priest s book Before Antietam as a good guide for South Mountain fighting. Also,
                            Message 13 of 25 , Apr 17, 2011
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                              Mike;

                              Although it does have many errors in it, I would still recommend J M
                              Priest's book "Before Antietam" as a good guide for South Mountain fighting.
                              Also, the War College Guide to Antietam has excellent section on South
                              Mountain, but I understand (IIRC???) it might be out of print.

                              Yr. Obt. Svt.
                              G E "Gerry" Mayers

                              To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even on one's
                              mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the Union, a passport to
                              any foreign country, and a benediction from the Almighty God. --Anonymous

                              -----Original Message-----
                              From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com]On
                              Behalf Of colliszouave@...
                              Sent: Sunday, April 17, 2011 6:56 PM
                              To: Talk Antietam
                              Subject: [TalkAntietam] South Mountain



                              Besides John Hoptak's book and the work of Carman, edited and annotated by
                              Clemens, what others are "must-haves" re: South Mountain?

                              Respectfully,

                              Mike Peters
                              Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry






                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • Jim Rosebrock
                              Mike You should also consider Tim Reese s book on the Battle of Crampton s Gap. It is titled Sealed With Their Lives. I don t know if you can get it new.
                              Message 14 of 25 , Apr 17, 2011
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                                Mike
                                You should also consider Tim Reese's book on the Battle of Crampton's Gap. It
                                is titled Sealed With Their Lives. I don't know if you can get it new. Amazon
                                has it here. It is out of print (I think) and a little expensive but worth your
                                consideration.
                                Regards
                                Jim Rosebrock





                                ________________________________
                                From: "colliszouave@..." <colliszouave@...>
                                To: Talk Antietam <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                                Sent: Sun, April 17, 2011 6:55:34 PM
                                Subject: [TalkAntietam] South Mountain


                                Besides John Hoptak's book and the work of Carman, edited and annotated by
                                Clemens, what others are "must-haves" re: South Mountain?

                                Respectfully,

                                Mike Peters
                                Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry




                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              • colliszouave@yahoo.com
                                Thank you Gerry, Jim and Steve! ... From: G E Mayers Sender: Talk Antietam To: Talk Antietam ReplyTo: Talk Antietam Subject: RE: [TalkAntietam] South Mountain
                                Message 15 of 25 , Apr 17, 2011
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                                  Thank you Gerry, Jim and Steve!
                                  ------Original Message------
                                  From: G E Mayers
                                  Sender: Talk Antietam
                                  To: Talk Antietam
                                  ReplyTo: Talk Antietam
                                  Subject: RE: [TalkAntietam] South Mountain
                                  Sent: Apr 17, 2011 8:51 PM

                                  Mike;

                                  Although it does have many errors in it, I would still recommend J M
                                  Priest's book "Before Antietam" as a good guide for South Mountain fighting.
                                  Also, the War College Guide to Antietam has excellent section on South
                                  Mountain, but I understand (IIRC???) it might be out of print.

                                  Yr. Obt. Svt.
                                  G E "Gerry" Mayers

                                  To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even on one's
                                  mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the Union, a passport to
                                  any foreign country, and a benediction from the Almighty God. --Anonymous

                                  -----Original Message-----
                                  From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com]On
                                  Behalf Of colliszouave@...
                                  Sent: Sunday, April 17, 2011 6:56 PM
                                  To: Talk Antietam
                                  Subject: [TalkAntietam] South Mountain



                                  Besides John Hoptak's book and the work of Carman, edited and annotated by
                                  Clemens, what others are "must-haves" re: South Mountain?

                                  Respectfully,

                                  Mike Peters
                                  Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry






                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



                                  ------------------------------------


                                  Yahoo! Groups Links





                                  Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
                                • G E Mayers
                                  Mike; You might also find the late Joseph Harsh s book Taken at the Flood to have much useful information as well. Yr. Obt. Svt. G E Gerry Mayers To Be A
                                  Message 16 of 25 , Apr 17, 2011
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                                    Mike;

                                    You might also find the late Joseph Harsh's book "Taken at the Flood" to
                                    have much useful information as well.

                                    Yr. Obt. Svt.
                                    G E "Gerry" Mayers

                                    To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even on one's
                                    mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the Union, a passport to
                                    any foreign country, and a benediction from the Almighty God. --Anonymous

                                    -----Original Message-----
                                    From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com]On
                                    Behalf Of colliszouave@...
                                    Sent: Sunday, April 17, 2011 9:39 PM
                                    To: Talk Antietam
                                    Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] South Mountain



                                    Thank you Gerry, Jim and Steve!
                                    ------Original Message------
                                    From: G E Mayers
                                    Sender: Talk Antietam
                                    To: Talk Antietam
                                    ReplyTo: Talk Antietam
                                    Subject: RE: [TalkAntietam] South Mountain
                                    Sent: Apr 17, 2011 8:51 PM

                                    Mike;

                                    Although it does have many errors in it, I would still recommend J M
                                    Priest's book "Before Antietam" as a good guide for South Mountain
                                    fighting.
                                    Also, the War College Guide to Antietam has excellent section on South
                                    Mountain, but I understand (IIRC???) it might be out of print.

                                    Yr. Obt. Svt.
                                    G E "Gerry" Mayers

                                    To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even on one's
                                    mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the Union, a passport to
                                    any foreign country, and a benediction from the Almighty God. --Anonymous

                                    -----Original Message-----
                                    From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com]On
                                    Behalf Of colliszouave@...
                                    Sent: Sunday, April 17, 2011 6:56 PM
                                    To: Talk Antietam
                                    Subject: [TalkAntietam] South Mountain



                                    Besides John Hoptak's book and the work of Carman, edited and annotated by
                                    Clemens, what others are "must-haves" re: South Mountain?

                                    Respectfully,

                                    Mike Peters
                                    Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry






                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



                                    ------------------------------------


                                    Yahoo! Groups Links





                                    Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry




                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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