Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: Added Upon/New Member

Expand Messages
  • Quentin Holt
    ... To T.R. Livesey and All: Yes, it was a strange kind of a freedom that allowed someone to own someone else. I gave it a lot of thought when I was a child
    Message 1 of 29 , Mar 7, 2007
    • 0 Attachment
      --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, T.R.Livesey <tlivesey@...> wrote:
      >
      To T.R. Livesey and All:

      Yes, it was a strange kind of a freedom that allowed someone to own
      someone else. I gave it a lot of thought when I was a child because
      I was very often treated and made to feel like I was solidly owned
      by my parents and strictly for their purposes. I did not have a
      pleasant childhood at all mostly because of that situation and
      matters related to it.

      Do you know that all 13 of the original states of the United States
      were slave states when the Constitution was ratified? Some of them,
      like the New England and mid-Atlantic states later abolished slavery
      by state law. Many people in the South did not like slavery either,
      but what were they going to do? It was like having a tiger by the
      tail. You wish that you didn't, but you don't dare let go. It was
      unsettling to say the least. Generally speaking, I think that we
      should be very cautious about judging people of one era of history by
      the standards of a later era. We can only guess what people a
      century and a half from now will think of us.

      The War was, generally speaking, not much kinder to Negroes than it
      was to other people. For one thing, many of those who joined the
      Federal Army's colored units died from wounds and disease just like
      men in the other units. Worst of all and least generally known in
      modern times was that there were untold tens or hundreds of thousands
      of freed slaves who died from malnutition, unsanitary conditions, bad
      water, disease, and violence throughout the devastated portions of
      South after the War. They tended to gather in squalid camps by
      rivers and just die there unreported and unrecorded in this world.
      Most Negroes who had an opportunity to stay where they were before
      the War and continue what they were doing were happy to choose to
      stay.

      When the awful "Reconstruction" era subsided in 1876, Negroes really
      felt the anger of the white South taken out on them. We all know the
      story well.

      In our day I look around me and I think I can see the "curious
      institution" of slavery returning in another form. Is it not a form
      of slavery when one must work from January 2 until a late May or
      June "Tax Freedom Day" just to pay his or her federal, state, and
      local taxes? Then one can have the rest of the year's income to
      support self, family, and church. Here in King County, Washington,
      we have a County Executive and a majority on the County Council who,
      like other "liberals," have the attitude that people like Iris and I
      exist only to provide limitless revenue for every fool boondoggle and
      government extravagance that their fertile minds can imagine. As if
      we had it!

      For my part, as I would not wish to be a slave, neither would I wish
      to hold someone else in bondage.

      Quentin Mark Holt




      When I visit battlefields, I too am saddened by the ways that
      Americans used to
      > regard and treat one another. Specifically, I am saddened how it
      was once thought
      > that it was OK, or normal, or even good, that people of one race
      could own as
      > property the people of another race. I do take some comfort in the
      fact that the
      > mess that the Founding Fathers left was eventually repaired, and
      their ideals had
      > a chance to be realized.
      >
      > T.R. Livesey
      > tlivesey@...
      >
      > On Tue Mar 6 23:30 , Mark Holt <que182001@...> sent:
      >
      > >To All:
      > >
      > > I am Quentin Holt of Renton, Washington State. I have been an
      amateur
      > historian since deep into my childhood, and I am now 58 years old.
      I am
      > well-read and widely traveled and have a lifelong penchant for
      thinking for
      > myself. I am a male-type person and have never been into emotional
      breakdowns or
      > serious failures to function. I was nearly a dozen years between
      the National
      > Guard and the Army Reserve. I am a graduate of the Infantry School
      at Fort Benning.
      > >
      > .
      > .
      > .
      > > When I visited the blood-soaked, ghost-haunted battlefields of
      the War, I felt
      > like I was like most other tourists there except that I may have
      been more
      > knowledgeable about the history of the War and that I was alone in
      my visits.
      > Like most any caring and decent person, I was also saddened by the
      ways that
      > Americans used to regard and treat one another, but it did not go
      beyond the
      > normal at the time.
      > >
      >
    • Brian Downey
      Greetings Quentin, Among many more significant things, you wrote ... A Landscape Turned Red by Stephen W. Sears... is the complete story of the
      Message 2 of 29 , Mar 8, 2007
      • 0 Attachment
        Greetings Quentin,

        Among many more significant things, you wrote "... A Landscape Turned
        Red by Stephen W. Sears... is the complete story of the
        Sharpsburg/Antietam campaign."

        To me, "the complete story" implies Landscape Turned Red is singularly
        authoritative or particularly comprehensive. I don't think it is
        either. But then, I don't know that any single work could be.

        I'd be curious to hear more of your view of the book.

        Brian

        --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, Mark Holt <que182001@...> wrote:
        >
        > To Thomas Klemons and All,
        >

        No "K" in Clemens!
      • James W. Durney
        ... I would be inclined to require more than one book on Antietam. The battle has not produced a Coddington , that I know of. Joseph Harsh has done some
        Message 3 of 29 , Mar 8, 2007
        • 0 Attachment
          --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, "Brian Downey" <bdowney@...> wrote:
          >
          > Greetings Quentin,
          >
          > Among many more significant things, you wrote "... A Landscape Turned
          > Red by Stephen W. Sears... is the complete story of the
          > Sharpsburg/Antietam campaign."
          >
          > To me, "the complete story" implies Landscape Turned Red is singularly
          > authoritative or particularly comprehensive. I don't think it is
          > either. But then, I don't know that any single work could be.
          >
          > I'd be curious to hear more of your view of the book.
          >
          > Brian
          >

          I would be inclined to require more than one book on Antietam. The
          battle has not produced a "Coddington", that I know of. Joseph Harsh
          has done some very detailed work and that needs to be mentioned. Nor
          do I think we can dismiss John Priest's book. I agree Sears is the
          best read of the bunch.

          James
        • Thomas Clemens
          I d agree that Sears is very well written. Would also agree that no single volume is definitive, however I would argue that had Joe Harsh finished his
          Message 4 of 29 , Mar 8, 2007
          • 0 Attachment
            I'd agree that Sears is very well written. Would also agree that no single volume is definitive, however I would argue that had Joe Harsh finished his multi-volume work on the Union perspective, together with Confederate trilogy, they would be definitive. But very long.



            Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
            Professor of History
            Hagerstown Community College



            >>> "James W. Durney" JWD2044@...> 03/08/07 1:56 PM >>

            I would be inclined to require more than one book on Antietam. The
            battle has not produced a "Coddington", that I know of. Joseph Harsh
            has done some very detailed work and that needs to be mentioned. Nor
            do I think we can dismiss John Priest's book. I agree Sears is the
            best read of the bunch.

            James





            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • James W. Durney
            ... the Union perspective, together with Confederate trilogy, they would be definitive. But very long. ... I would only argue it would be very very very long.
            Message 5 of 29 , Mar 8, 2007
            • 0 Attachment
              --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, "Thomas Clemens" <clemenst@...>
              wrote:
              >
              > I would argue that had Joe Harsh finished his multi-volume work on
              the Union perspective, together with Confederate trilogy, they would be
              definitive. But very long.
              >
              >

              I would only argue it would be very very very long. Having read some
              of your work, I hope to see a book on the battle some day.

              James
            • T.R.Livesey
              ... This tiger by the tail thing is a bunch of nonsense. None of the major conflicts over slavery were about slavery in the south; it was all about slavery
              Message 6 of 29 , Mar 9, 2007
              • 0 Attachment
                On Thu Mar 8 0:57 , 'Quentin Holt' que182001@...> sent:

                >--- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, T.R.Livesey wrote:
                >>
                >To T.R. Livesey and All:
                >
                >
                >Do you know that all 13 of the original states of the United States
                >were slave states when the Constitution was ratified? Some of them,
                >like the New England and mid-Atlantic states later abolished slavery
                >by state law. Many people in the South did not like slavery either,
                >but what were they going to do? It was like having a tiger by the
                >tail. You wish that you didn't, but you don't dare let go. It was
                >unsettling to say the least. Generally speaking, I think that we
                >should be very cautious about judging people of one era of history by
                >the standards of a later era. We can only guess what people a
                >century and a half from now will think of us.

                This 'tiger by the tail' thing is a bunch of nonsense. None of the major
                conflicts over slavery were about slavery in the south; it was all about slavery
                in the west (Missouri Compromise, Kansas-Nebraska, etc), slavery in the north
                (Dred Scott) and slavery in the Capital. No matter how ‘dangerous’, volatile, or
                explosive slavery might be, its supporters were bent on spreading it to every
                region of the country. Lincoln made this argument in his debates with Douglas:
                if a man had something dangerous, toxic, and explosive in your in one part of
                your house, why would you want to spread it everywhere in your house? If you
                bought a new house, why would you bring the dangerous, explosive, toxic thing
                into the new house? And if some of the toxic substance leaked onto your
                neighbor’s property, why would you demand a law that made your neighbor obligated
                to help you scoop up the toxic substance and bring it back to your house? If you
                tolerate something only because you don’t know what to do with it, your don’t
                turn around and try to grow it and make it flourish.

                That aside, the historical record proves that slavery was not a tiger by the
                tail. After all, emancipation eventually did happen, and the tiger got let go.
                There were no widespread reprisals of blacks on whites, except in the imagination
                of the authors of "Birth of a Nation".

                As for your comment about judging people by our standards, are you saying that
                respect for basic human dignity was not a standard of the 19th century? They
                lived under 'all men are created equal', just like we do. I think if the George
                Wallaces of the world thought a little bit less about their immediate interests
                and a little more about how the future will judge them, the world would be a much
                better place.


                >
                >
                >In our day I look around me and I think I can see the "curious
                >institution" of slavery returning in another form. Is it not a form
                >of slavery when one must work from January 2 until a late May or
                >June "Tax Freedom Day" just to pay his or her federal, state, and
                >local taxes? Then one can have the rest of the year's income to
                >support self, family, and church. Here in King County, Washington,
                >we have a County Executive and a majority on the County Council who,
                >like other "liberals," have the attitude that people like Iris and I
                >exist only to provide limitless revenue for every fool boondoggle and
                >government extravagance that their fertile minds can imagine. As if
                >we had it!
                >

                We don't discuss modern politics in this group.

                T.R. Livesey
                tlivesey@...
              • James W. Durney
                ... saying that ... century? TR, my Irish family history will answer your question with a resounding YES . Read The Harp and the Eagle by Susannah Ural
                Message 7 of 29 , Mar 9, 2007
                • 0 Attachment
                  --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, T.R.Livesey <tlivesey@...> wrote:
                  >
                  >
                  > As for your comment about judging people by our standards, are you
                  saying that
                  > respect for basic human dignity was not a standard of the 19th
                  century?

                  TR, my Irish family history will answer your question with a
                  resounding 'YES'. Read "The Harp and the Eagle" by Susannah Ural
                  Bruce. BTW, the Germans were not a great deal better off bur that side
                  of my family didn't come to America until after the war.

                  James
                • T.R.Livesey
                  Aspiring to something is different than actually practising it. Or, failing in something doesn t mean you never meant to succeed. Atrocities continue to the
                  Message 8 of 29 , Mar 9, 2007
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Aspiring to something is different than actually practising it. Or, failing in
                    something doesn't mean you never meant to succeed. Atrocities continue to the
                    present day, and probably will continue forever. Does that prove that there is no
                    such thing as respect for human dignity?

                    T.R. Livesey
                    tlivesey@...

                    On Fri Mar 9 18:26 , 'James W. Durney' <JWD2044@...> sent:

                    >--- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, T.R.Livesey wrote:
                    >>
                    >>
                    >> As for your comment about judging people by our standards, are you
                    >saying that
                    >> respect for basic human dignity was not a standard of the 19th
                    >century?
                    >
                    >TR, my Irish family history will answer your question with a
                    >resounding 'YES'. Read "The Harp and the Eagle" by Susannah Ural
                    >Bruce. BTW, the Germans were not a great deal better off bur that side
                    >of my family didn't come to America until after the war.
                    >
                    >James
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >Yahoo! Groups Links
                    >
                    > To visit your group on the web, go to:
                    > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TalkAntietam/
                    >
                    > Your email settings:
                    > Individual Email | Traditional
                    >
                    > To change settings online go to:
                    > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TalkAntietam/join
                    > (Yahoo! ID required)
                    >
                    > To change settings via email:
                    >
                    TalkAntietam-digest@yahoogroups.com','','','')">TalkAntietam-digest@yahoogroups.com
                    >
                    TalkAntietam-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com','','','')">TalkAntietam-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com
                    >
                    > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                    > TalkAntietam-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                    >
                    > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
                    > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                    >
                  • Mark Holt
                    Human dignity was a big thing in the 19th century. Many slaves were treated not only with dignity but with love. This was especially true in relationships in
                    Message 9 of 29 , Mar 10, 2007
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Human dignity was a big thing in the 19th century. Many slaves were treated not only with dignity but with love. This was especially true in relationships in which only one or a very few slaves belonged to a family. People who were mean to slaves were, more often than not, just mean in general. A person who was good to slaves was, more often than not, good to animals, family, and neighbors.

                      I believe that, when I come before God's judgment, my being a non-slave-owner will be of minor import. What will really matter is how I treated all people around me.

                      "James W. Durney" <JWD2044@...> wrote:
                      --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, T.R.Livesey <tlivesey@...> wrote:
                      >
                      >
                      > As for your comment about judging people by our standards, are you
                      saying that
                      > respect for basic human dignity was not a standard of the 19th
                      century?

                      TR, my Irish family history will answer your question with a
                      resounding 'YES'. Read "The Harp and the Eagle" by Susannah Ural
                      Bruce. BTW, the Germans were not a great deal better off bur that side
                      of my family didn't come to America until after the war.

                      James








                      test'; ">

                      ---------------------------------
                      Don't pick lemons.
                      See all the new 2007 cars at Yahoo! Autos.

                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Brian Downey
                      Greetings friends, The recent discussion topic about slavery is well outside the scope and charter of this goup. Besides, you all know where it ll go... Not
                      Message 10 of 29 , Mar 10, 2007
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Greetings friends,

                        The recent discussion topic about slavery is well outside the scope
                        and charter of this goup. Besides, you all know where it'll go...

                        Not that it isn't an important subject, or that we don't all have a
                        right to say what we think, just that the conversation belongs elsewhere.

                        I'd be happy to point the interested to other internet groups which
                        are appropriate for that subject. I'd also be glad to have private
                        email from anyone who'd like to talk about it further.

                        Thanks,
                        Brian
                      • robert blama
                        I agree, I ususally dont say much
                        Message 11 of 29 , Mar 11, 2007
                        • 0 Attachment
                          I agree, I ususally dont say much< i just listend and pick up great info but I want it concentrated on Antietam, Would discuss other topics in another forum.

                          ----- Original Message -----
                          From: Brian Downey
                          To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Saturday, March 10, 2007 11:45 AM
                          Subject: [TalkAntietam] Off topic posting reminder


                          Greetings friends,

                          The recent discussion topic about slavery is well outside the scope
                          and charter of this goup. Besides, you all know where it'll go...

                          Not that it isn't an important subject, or that we don't all have a
                          right to say what we think, just that the conversation belongs elsewhere.

                          I'd be happy to point the interested to other internet groups which
                          are appropriate for that subject. I'd also be glad to have private
                          email from anyone who'd like to talk about it further.

                          Thanks,
                          Brian





                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • Adam Zimmerli
                          I have to say I m a fan of Joe Harsh s trilogy, but as far as a definitive study, I hear that Ezra Carman s study will be coming out this summer (at a thousand
                          Message 12 of 29 , Apr 8 7:21 AM
                          • 0 Attachment
                            I have to say I'm a fan of Joe Harsh's trilogy, but as far as a
                            definitive study, I hear that Ezra Carman's study will be coming out
                            this summer (at a thousand pages and a hundred dollars).

                            --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, "James W. Durney" <JWD2044@...>
                            wrote:
                            >
                            > --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, "Thomas Clemens" <clemenst@>
                            > wrote:
                            > >
                            > > I would argue that had Joe Harsh finished his multi-volume work on
                            > the Union perspective, together with Confederate trilogy, they would
                            be
                            > definitive. But very long.
                            > >
                            > >
                            >
                            > I would only argue it would be very very very long. Having read some
                            > of your work, I hope to see a book on the battle some day.
                            >
                            > James
                            >
                          • mfitz54@aol.com
                            I was at a seminar on Antietam at which Joe Harsh spoke and he talked about how invaluable Ezra Carmen s writings on Antietam were to him. He did talk about
                            Message 13 of 29 , Apr 8 7:44 AM
                            • 0 Attachment
                              I was at a seminar on Antietam at which Joe Harsh spoke and he talked about how invaluable Ezra Carmen's writings on Antietam were to him. He did talk about how he
                              wanted to write the Union side of the battle in which Carmen's work would have been
                              a major source.
                              How is Mr. Harsh? I understand he had been ill.

                              Mike Fitzpatrick


                              -----Original Message-----
                              From: azimmerli@...
                              To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                              Sent: Sun, 8 Apr 2007 10:21 AM
                              Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: The Complete Story of Antietam


                              I have to say I'm a fan of Joe Harsh's trilogy, but as far as a
                              definitive study, I hear that Ezra Carman's study will be coming out
                              this summer (at a thousand pages and a hundred dollars).

                              --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, "James W. Durney" <JWD2044@...>
                              wrote:
                              >
                              > --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, "Thomas Clemens" <clemenst@>
                              > wrote:
                              > >
                              > > I would argue that had Joe Harsh finished his multi-volume work on
                              > the Union perspective, together with Confederate trilogy, they would
                              be
                              > definitive. But very long.
                              > >
                              > >
                              >
                              > I would only argue it would be very very very long. Having read some
                              > of your work, I hope to see a book on the battle some day.
                              >
                              > James
                              >



                              ________________________________________________________________________
                              AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com.


                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • G E Mayers
                              Mike, Joe Harsh suffered a stroke a few years ago which, along with complications from diabetes, made it impossible for him to complete his project on
                              Message 14 of 29 , Apr 8 9:41 AM
                              • 0 Attachment
                                Mike,

                                Joe Harsh suffered a stroke a few years ago which, along with
                                complications from diabetes, made it impossible for him to complete
                                his project on McClellan and the Army of the Potomac.

                                Yr. Obt. Svt.
                                G E "Gerry" Mayers

                                To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even on
                                one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the Union, a
                                passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from the Almighty
                                God. --Anonymous
                                ----- Original Message -----
                                From: <mfitz54@...>
                                To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                                Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2007 10:44 AM
                                Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Re: The Complete Story of Antietam


                                >I was at a seminar on Antietam at which Joe Harsh spoke and he talked
                                >about how invaluable Ezra Carmen's writings on Antietam were to him.
                                >He did talk about how he
                                > wanted to write the Union side of the battle in which Carmen's work
                                > would have been
                                > a major source.
                                > How is Mr. Harsh? I understand he had been ill.
                                >
                                > Mike Fitzpatrick
                                >
                                >
                                > -----Original Message-----
                                > From: azimmerli@...
                                > To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                                > Sent: Sun, 8 Apr 2007 10:21 AM
                                > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: The Complete Story of Antietam
                                >
                                >
                                > I have to say I'm a fan of Joe Harsh's trilogy, but as far as a
                                > definitive study, I hear that Ezra Carman's study will be coming out
                                > this summer (at a thousand pages and a hundred dollars).
                                >
                                > --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, "James W. Durney" <JWD2044@...>
                                > wrote:
                                >>
                                >> --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, "Thomas Clemens" <clemenst@>
                                >> wrote:
                                >> >
                                >> > I would argue that had Joe Harsh finished his multi-volume work
                                >> > on
                                >> the Union perspective, together with Confederate trilogy, they
                                >> would
                                > be
                                >> definitive. But very long.
                                >> >
                                >> >
                                >>
                                >> I would only argue it would be very very very long. Having read
                                >> some
                                >> of your work, I hope to see a book on the battle some day.
                                >>
                                >> James
                                >>
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > ________________________________________________________________________
                                > AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's
                                > free from AOL at AOL.com.
                                >
                                >
                                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                >
                                >
                              • G E Mayers
                                Dear Adam, The book which you refer to about Carman has been referred to as less than a definitive study. Dr. Thomas Clemens, who won his Doctorate on an
                                Message 15 of 29 , Apr 8 9:42 AM
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  Dear Adam,

                                  The book which you refer to about Carman has been referred to as less
                                  than a definitive study. Dr. Thomas Clemens, who won his Doctorate on
                                  an annotation of the Carman work, would be probably the best person
                                  qualified for a definitive work on the Carman manuscript.

                                  Yr. Obt. Svt.
                                  G E "Gerry" Mayers

                                  To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even on
                                  one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the Union, a
                                  passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from the Almighty
                                  God. --Anonymous
                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                  From: "Adam Zimmerli" <azimmerli@...>
                                  To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                                  Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2007 10:21 AM
                                  Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: The Complete Story of Antietam


                                  I have to say I'm a fan of Joe Harsh's trilogy, but as far as a
                                  definitive study, I hear that Ezra Carman's study will be coming out
                                  this summer (at a thousand pages and a hundred dollars).

                                  --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, "James W. Durney" <JWD2044@...>
                                  wrote:
                                  >
                                  > --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, "Thomas Clemens" <clemenst@>
                                  > wrote:
                                  > >
                                  > > I would argue that had Joe Harsh finished his multi-volume work on
                                  > the Union perspective, together with Confederate trilogy, they would
                                  be
                                  > definitive. But very long.
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > I would only argue it would be very very very long. Having read
                                  > some
                                  > of your work, I hope to see a book on the battle some day.
                                  >
                                  > James
                                  >
                                • mfitz54@aol.com
                                  Thank you. I m very sorry to hear that. Mike ... From: gerry1952@verizon.net To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, 8 Apr 2007 12:41 PM Subject: Re:
                                  Message 16 of 29 , Apr 8 11:48 AM
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    Thank you. I'm very sorry to hear that.

                                    Mike

                                    -----Original Message-----
                                    From: gerry1952@...
                                    To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                                    Sent: Sun, 8 Apr 2007 12:41 PM
                                    Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Re: The Complete Story of Antietam


                                    Mike,

                                    Joe Harsh suffered a stroke a few years ago which, along with
                                    complications from diabetes, made it impossible for him to complete
                                    his project on McClellan and the Army of the Potomac.

                                    Yr. Obt. Svt.
                                    G E "Gerry" Mayers

                                    To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even on
                                    one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the Union, a
                                    passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from the Almighty
                                    God. --Anonymous
                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                    From: <mfitz54@...>
                                    To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                                    Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2007 10:44 AM
                                    Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Re: The Complete Story of Antietam

                                    >I was at a seminar on Antietam at which Joe Harsh spoke and he talked
                                    >about how invaluable Ezra Carmen's writings on Antietam were to him.
                                    >He did talk about how he
                                    > wanted to write the Union side of the battle in which Carmen's work
                                    > would have been
                                    > a major source.
                                    > How is Mr. Harsh? I understand he had been ill.
                                    >
                                    > Mike Fitzpatrick
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > -----Original Message-----
                                    > From: azimmerli@...
                                    > To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                                    > Sent: Sun, 8 Apr 2007 10:21 AM
                                    > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: The Complete Story of Antietam
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > I have to say I'm a fan of Joe Harsh's trilogy, but as far as a
                                    > definitive study, I hear that Ezra Carman's study will be coming out
                                    > this summer (at a thousand pages and a hundred dollars).
                                    >
                                    > --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, "James W. Durney" <JWD2044@...>
                                    > wrote:
                                    >>
                                    >> --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, "Thomas Clemens" <clemenst@>
                                    >> wrote:
                                    >> >
                                    >> > I would argue that had Joe Harsh finished his multi-volume work
                                    >> > on
                                    >> the Union perspective, together with Confederate trilogy, they
                                    >> would
                                    > be
                                    >> definitive. But very long.
                                    >> >
                                    >> >
                                    >>
                                    >> I would only argue it would be very very very long. Having read
                                    >> some
                                    >> of your work, I hope to see a book on the battle some day.
                                    >>
                                    >> James
                                    >>
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > __________________________________________________________
                                    > AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's
                                    > free from AOL at AOL.com.
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    >
                                    >



                                    ________________________________________________________________________
                                    AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com.


                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  • James W. Durney
                                    Anyone know if it is possible to get him to sign his books? James
                                    Message 17 of 29 , Apr 8 5:27 PM
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      Anyone know if it is possible to get him to sign his books?

                                      James

                                      > -----Original Message-----
                                      > From: gerry1952@...
                                      > To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                                      > Sent: Sun, 8 Apr 2007 12:41 PM
                                      > Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Re: The Complete Story of Antietam
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > Mike,
                                      >
                                      > Joe Harsh suffered a stroke a few years ago which, along with
                                      > complications from diabetes, made it impossible for him to complete
                                      > his project on McClellan and the Army of the Potomac.
                                      >
                                    • G E Mayers
                                      Dear James, The only possible way I know of might be to send a book of his to the publisher and ask them to forward to him for signature, but am not sure. Yr.
                                      Message 18 of 29 , Apr 8 5:40 PM
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        Dear James,

                                        The only possible way I know of might be to send a book of his to the
                                        publisher and ask them to forward to him for signature, but am not
                                        sure.

                                        Yr. Obt. Svt.
                                        G E "Gerry" Mayers

                                        To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even on
                                        one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the Union, a
                                        passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from the Almighty
                                        God. --Anonymous
                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                        From: "James W. Durney" <JWD2044@...>
                                        To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                                        Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2007 8:27 PM
                                        Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: The Complete Story of Antietam


                                        Anyone know if it is possible to get him to sign his books?

                                        James

                                        > -----Original Message-----
                                        > From: gerry1952@...
                                        > To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                                        > Sent: Sun, 8 Apr 2007 12:41 PM
                                        > Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Re: The Complete Story of Antietam
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > Mike,
                                        >
                                        > Joe Harsh suffered a stroke a few years ago which, along with
                                        > complications from diabetes, made it impossible for him to complete
                                        > his project on McClellan and the Army of the Potomac.
                                        >
                                      • Thomas Clemens
                                        Yes, but he doesn t travel much. You d most likely need to call him and go to his house. Thomas G. Clemens D.A. Professor of History Hagerstown Community
                                        Message 19 of 29 , Apr 9 6:03 AM
                                        • 0 Attachment
                                          Yes, but he doesn't travel much. You'd most likely need to call him and go to his house.


                                          Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
                                          Professor of History
                                          Hagerstown Community College



                                          >>> "James W. Durney" <JWD2044@...> 04/08/07 8:27 PM >>>

                                          Anyone know if it is possible to get him to sign his books?

                                          James

                                          > -----Original Message-----
                                          > From: gerry1952@...
                                          > To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                                          > Sent: Sun, 8 Apr 2007 12:41 PM
                                          > Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Re: The Complete Story of Antietam
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > Mike,
                                          >
                                          > Joe Harsh suffered a stroke a few years ago which, along with
                                          > complications from diabetes, made it impossible for him to complete
                                          > his project on McClellan and the Army of the Potomac.
                                          >





                                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                        • James W. Durney
                                          ... and go to his house. ... Would you email me off-line, I have all of his books and would like to get them signed. James
                                          Message 20 of 29 , Apr 9 2:53 PM
                                          • 0 Attachment
                                            --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, "Thomas Clemens" <clemenst@...>
                                            wrote:
                                            >
                                            > Yes, but he doesn't travel much. You'd most likely need to call him
                                            and go to his house.
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
                                            > Professor of History
                                            > Hagerstown Community College

                                            Would you email me off-line, I have all of his books and would like to
                                            get them signed.

                                            James
                                          • joseph_pierro
                                            Dear Adam (and Gerry): There seems to be a little confusion about this book. It is not a study ABOUT Carman or his work (a biography of Carman was written soem
                                            Message 21 of 29 , Jun 23, 2007
                                            • 0 Attachment
                                              Dear Adam (and Gerry):

                                              There seems to be a little confusion about this book.

                                              It is not a study ABOUT Carman or his work (a biography of Carman was
                                              written soem years ago by a student of Joe Harsh's, but it remains an
                                              unpublished thesis); the book Adam appears to be referencing is the
                                              (soon to be) published and annotated edition of Carman's own 1,400
                                              page manuscript (Tom Clemens and I differ as to the number of pages;
                                              my count comes in a little over 1,400.)

                                              As for it being "less than definitive"--well, it is THE narrative
                                              that has shaped the park's own interpretation of the battle to this
                                              day. Murfin, Sears, and Harsh all rely upon it. Which is not to say
                                              it doesn't have its problems (it IS a 100 year old work, crafted when
                                              standards of scholarship weren't as fixed and rigorous as a modern
                                              work faces), but even those wirters who disagree with Carman's
                                              interpretations first begin by taking him head-on. In Landscape
                                              Turned Red, Sears called it the most detailed history of the battle
                                              ever written. Nothing has changed since then to alter the truth of
                                              that statement.

                                              Carman's a bit like Freeman in that regard--writers can disagree with
                                              everythign he said, but they can't write on the subject without
                                              coming to grips with his work at some point.

                                              Had Dr. Harsh continued his series, I'd would no doubt have been an
                                              exhaustive campaign study. I question, however, whether he would
                                              have gone into the tactical specificity Carman provided. I would
                                              agree that Harsh's work--even in its current state--supplants (though
                                              owes a debt to) Carman's as a large-unit, strategic/operational study.

                                              I'm not sure how Gerry might have heard anything--positive or
                                              otherwise--about it, as it hasn't yet reached print. (Five people
                                              have seen my edition to date. I'll let their reactions speak for
                                              themselves on the book's Amazon page.) Perhaps his opinion will
                                              improve once he sees it. ;)

                                              --Joseph Pierro
                                              Hanover Co., Va.

                                              --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, "G E Mayers" <gerry1952@...>
                                              wrote:
                                              >
                                              > Dear Adam,
                                              >
                                              > The book which you refer to about Carman has been referred to as
                                              less
                                              > than a definitive study. Dr. Thomas Clemens, who won his Doctorate
                                              on
                                              > an annotation of the Carman work, would be probably the best person
                                              > qualified for a definitive work on the Carman manuscript.
                                              >
                                              > Yr. Obt. Svt.
                                              > G E "Gerry" Mayers
                                              >
                                              > To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even on
                                              > one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the Union,
                                              a
                                              > passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from the
                                              Almighty
                                              > God. --Anonymous
                                              > ----- Original Message -----
                                              > From: "Adam Zimmerli" <azimmerli@...>
                                              > To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                                              > Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2007 10:21 AM
                                              > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: The Complete Story of Antietam
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > I have to say I'm a fan of Joe Harsh's trilogy, but as far as a
                                              > definitive study, I hear that Ezra Carman's study will be coming out
                                              > this summer (at a thousand pages and a hundred dollars).
                                              >
                                              > --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, "James W. Durney" <JWD2044@>
                                              > wrote:
                                              > >
                                              > > --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, "Thomas Clemens" <clemenst@>
                                              > > wrote:
                                              > > >
                                              > > > I would argue that had Joe Harsh finished his multi-volume work
                                              on
                                              > > the Union perspective, together with Confederate trilogy, they
                                              would
                                              > be
                                              > > definitive. But very long.
                                              > > >
                                              > > >
                                              > >
                                              > > I would only argue it would be very very very long. Having read
                                              > > some
                                              > > of your work, I hope to see a book on the battle some day.
                                              > >
                                              > > James
                                              > >
                                              >
                                            • G E Mayers
                                              Dear Joseph, I think I understand now what you meant in your previous email to which I responded. Carman was the unofficial official Historian of the Battle of
                                              Message 22 of 29 , Jun 24, 2007
                                              • 0 Attachment
                                                Dear Joseph,

                                                I think I understand now what you meant in your previous email to
                                                which I responded. Carman was the unofficial official Historian
                                                of the Battle of Antietam for the Battlefield Board and as such
                                                carried on a most exhaustive correspondence with surviving
                                                veterans of both sides.

                                                Being himself also a veteran of the fighting at Antietam where he
                                                was colonel of the Thirteenth New Jersey, a nine month unit which
                                                literally learned how to go through the motions of loading its
                                                muskets under Confederate fire (talk about "on the job
                                                training"!!!!), Carman had a personal interest in getting the
                                                facts right. I agree with you that Carman's manuscript continues
                                                to remain one of the highest sources for primary information
                                                about the battle but, like most all documentation, the manuscript
                                                is not without its flaws.

                                                Another very worthwhile work is that authored by Francis Palfrey
                                                titled "The Antietam and Fredericksburg", which can be purchased
                                                in paperback form. IIRC Stephen Sears did the introduction to the
                                                paperback edition. I have the book and have read it and found it
                                                a very good source and containing much valuable information.

                                                Yr. Obt. Svt.
                                                G E "Gerry" Mayers

                                                To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
                                                on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
                                                Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from
                                                the Almighty God. --Anonymous
                                                ----- Original Message -----
                                                From: "joseph_pierro" <joseph_pierro@...>
                                                To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                                                Sent: Saturday, June 23, 2007 10:05 PM
                                                Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: The Complete Story of Antietam


                                                Dear Adam (and Gerry):

                                                There seems to be a little confusion about this book.

                                                It is not a study ABOUT Carman or his work (a biography of Carman
                                                was
                                                written soem years ago by a student of Joe Harsh's, but it
                                                remains an
                                                unpublished thesis); the book Adam appears to be referencing is
                                                the
                                                (soon to be) published and annotated edition of Carman's own
                                                1,400
                                                page manuscript (Tom Clemens and I differ as to the number of
                                                pages;
                                                my count comes in a little over 1,400.)

                                                As for it being "less than definitive"--well, it is THE narrative
                                                that has shaped the park's own interpretation of the battle to
                                                this
                                                day. Murfin, Sears, and Harsh all rely upon it. Which is not to
                                                say
                                                it doesn't have its problems (it IS a 100 year old work, crafted
                                                when
                                                standards of scholarship weren't as fixed and rigorous as a
                                                modern
                                                work faces), but even those wirters who disagree with Carman's
                                                interpretations first begin by taking him head-on. In Landscape
                                                Turned Red, Sears called it the most detailed history of the
                                                battle
                                                ever written. Nothing has changed since then to alter the truth
                                                of
                                                that statement.

                                                Carman's a bit like Freeman in that regard--writers can disagree
                                                with
                                                everythign he said, but they can't write on the subject without
                                                coming to grips with his work at some point.

                                                Had Dr. Harsh continued his series, I'd would no doubt have been
                                                an
                                                exhaustive campaign study. I question, however, whether he would
                                                have gone into the tactical specificity Carman provided. I would
                                                agree that Harsh's work--even in its current state--supplants
                                                (though
                                                owes a debt to) Carman's as a large-unit, strategic/operational
                                                study.

                                                I'm not sure how Gerry might have heard anything--positive or
                                                otherwise--about it, as it hasn't yet reached print. (Five
                                                people
                                                have seen my edition to date. I'll let their reactions speak for
                                                themselves on the book's Amazon page.) Perhaps his opinion will
                                                improve once he sees it. ;)

                                                --Joseph Pierro
                                                Hanover Co., Va.

                                                --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, "G E Mayers" <gerry1952@...>
                                                wrote:
                                                >
                                                > Dear Adam,
                                                >
                                                > The book which you refer to about Carman has been referred to
                                                > as
                                                less
                                                > than a definitive study. Dr. Thomas Clemens, who won his
                                                > Doctorate
                                                on
                                                > an annotation of the Carman work, would be probably the best
                                                > person
                                                > qualified for a definitive work on the Carman manuscript.
                                                >
                                                > Yr. Obt. Svt.
                                                > G E "Gerry" Mayers
                                                >
                                                > To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
                                                > on
                                                > one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
                                                > Union,
                                                a
                                                > passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from the
                                                Almighty
                                                > God. --Anonymous
                                                > ----- Original Message -----
                                                > From: "Adam Zimmerli" <azimmerli@...>
                                                > To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                                                > Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2007 10:21 AM
                                                > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: The Complete Story of Antietam
                                                >
                                                >
                                                > I have to say I'm a fan of Joe Harsh's trilogy, but as far as a
                                                > definitive study, I hear that Ezra Carman's study will be
                                                > coming out
                                                > this summer (at a thousand pages and a hundred dollars).
                                                >
                                                > --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, "James W. Durney"
                                                > <JWD2044@>
                                                > wrote:
                                                > >
                                                > > --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, "Thomas Clemens"
                                                > > <clemenst@>
                                                > > wrote:
                                                > > >
                                                > > > I would argue that had Joe Harsh finished his multi-volume
                                                > > > work
                                                on
                                                > > the Union perspective, together with Confederate trilogy,
                                                > > they
                                                would
                                                > be
                                                > > definitive. But very long.
                                                > > >
                                                > > >
                                                > >
                                                > > I would only argue it would be very very very long. Having
                                                > > read
                                                > > some
                                                > > of your work, I hope to see a book on the battle some day> >
                                                > > James
                                                > >
                                                >
                                              • Joseph Pierro
                                                Dear Gerry: Please call me Jake. All my friends do. My apologies if i misquoted your earlier statement. As I read the post, someone made reference to the
                                                Message 23 of 29 , Jun 24, 2007
                                                • 0 Attachment
                                                  Dear Gerry:

                                                  Please call me Jake. All my friends do.

                                                  My apologies if i misquoted your earlier statement. As I read the post, someone made reference to the "about to be published" Carman manuscript as "the definitive work.

                                                  Your statement in reply was something on the lines of "hardly definitive"--which I took as a remark upon my job of EDITING it. I see that you meant to refer to Carman's manuscript itself.

                                                  To which, I concur that Carman is HARDLY the last work on the subject. In fact, he owes (and openly acknowledges) quite a debt to Palfrey (quoting him verbatim and at length in many passages) and other contemporaries. In that regard, I am not aware of ANY author who has written all that can be said on Antietam. (I'm hard pressed to think of any historian who has done that for ANY Civil War battle.)

                                                  I think the word "definitive" sprang up in this conversation as a result of my use of the word in the subtitle to my edition of Carman. Marketing cache aside, I used the term in its literal sense. Carman's manuscript represnets the sum total of his reserach into the battle--research which formed the basis of the "official narrative" of Antietam as constructed by the Battlefield Board, and which has served--on some level--as the basis for all subsequent histories of the fight.

                                                  Consciously or not, everyone who writes on Antietam is in some way beginning with Carman. The govenrment's account of the battle--as expressed not only in print, but in the layout of Antietam National Battlefield itself, in what was presevred and what was omitted, what was foregrounded and what was relegated to the sidelines--is the narrative Carman constructed for them.

                                                  Which is to say (a point I express in my introduction) that Carman's work has "defined" all subsequent research. It's the baseline to which others historians have either adhered or deviated--but, by definition, they have never worked in isolation from it.

                                                  As for its flaws, I am the first to admit there are boths errors of fact and errors of interpretation in Carman's work. (So too with every history.)

                                                  I go back to my use of the word "baseline." I for one would never argue that Carman's work (by which I refer to the sum of his inquiries into Antietam, of which the Maryland Campaign is but one expression) is (or ever intended to be) the "last" word on the subject. I would argue, however, that it is, if not the FIRST word, the most influential on the subsequent course of Antietam historiography.



                                                  ----- Original Message ----
                                                  From: G E Mayers <gerry1952@...>
                                                  To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                                                  Sent: Sunday, June 24, 2007 10:39:12 PM
                                                  Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Re: The Complete Story of Antietam

                                                  Dear Joseph,

                                                  I think I understand now what you meant in your previous email to
                                                  which I responded. Carman was the unofficial official Historian
                                                  of the Battle of Antietam for the Battlefield Board and as such
                                                  carried on a most exhaustive correspondence with surviving
                                                  veterans of both sides.

                                                  Being himself also a veteran of the fighting at Antietam where he
                                                  was colonel of the Thirteenth New Jersey, a nine month unit which
                                                  literally learned how to go through the motions of loading its
                                                  muskets under Confederate fire (talk about "on the job
                                                  training"!!! !), Carman had a personal interest in getting the
                                                  facts right. I agree with you that Carman's manuscript continues
                                                  to remain one of the highest sources for primary information
                                                  about the battle but, like most all documentation, the manuscript
                                                  is not without its flaws.

                                                  Another very worthwhile work is that authored by Francis Palfrey
                                                  titled "The Antietam and Fredericksburg" , which can be purchased
                                                  in paperback form. IIRC Stephen Sears did the introduction to the
                                                  paperback edition. I have the book and have read it and found it
                                                  a very good source and containing much valuable information.

                                                  Yr. Obt. Svt.
                                                  G E "Gerry" Mayers

                                                  To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
                                                  on one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
                                                  Union, a passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from
                                                  the Almighty God. --Anonymous
                                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                                  From: "joseph_pierro" <joseph_pierro@ yahoo.com>
                                                  To: <TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com>
                                                  Sent: Saturday, June 23, 2007 10:05 PM
                                                  Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: The Complete Story of Antietam

                                                  Dear Adam (and Gerry):

                                                  There seems to be a little confusion about this book.

                                                  It is not a study ABOUT Carman or his work (a biography of Carman
                                                  was
                                                  written soem years ago by a student of Joe Harsh's, but it
                                                  remains an
                                                  unpublished thesis); the book Adam appears to be referencing is
                                                  the
                                                  (soon to be) published and annotated edition of Carman's own
                                                  1,400
                                                  page manuscript (Tom Clemens and I differ as to the number of
                                                  pages;
                                                  my count comes in a little over 1,400.)

                                                  As for it being "less than definitive"- -well, it is THE narrative
                                                  that has shaped the park's own interpretation of the battle to
                                                  this
                                                  day. Murfin, Sears, and Harsh all rely upon it. Which is not to
                                                  say
                                                  it doesn't have its problems (it IS a 100 year old work, crafted
                                                  when
                                                  standards of scholarship weren't as fixed and rigorous as a
                                                  modern
                                                  work faces), but even those wirters who disagree with Carman's
                                                  interpretations first begin by taking him head-on. In Landscape
                                                  Turned Red, Sears called it the most detailed history of the
                                                  battle
                                                  ever written. Nothing has changed since then to alter the truth
                                                  of
                                                  that statement.

                                                  Carman's a bit like Freeman in that regard--writers can disagree
                                                  with
                                                  everythign he said, but they can't write on the subject without
                                                  coming to grips with his work at some point.

                                                  Had Dr. Harsh continued his series, I'd would no doubt have been
                                                  an
                                                  exhaustive campaign study. I question, however, whether he would
                                                  have gone into the tactical specificity Carman provided. I would
                                                  agree that Harsh's work--even in its current state--supplants
                                                  (though
                                                  owes a debt to) Carman's as a large-unit, strategic/operation al
                                                  study.

                                                  I'm not sure how Gerry might have heard anything--positive or
                                                  otherwise--about it, as it hasn't yet reached print. (Five
                                                  people
                                                  have seen my edition to date. I'll let their reactions speak for
                                                  themselves on the book's Amazon page.) Perhaps his opinion will
                                                  improve once he sees it. ;)

                                                  --Joseph Pierro
                                                  Hanover Co., Va.

                                                  --- In TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com, "G E Mayers" <gerry1952@. ..>
                                                  wrote:
                                                  >
                                                  > Dear Adam,
                                                  >
                                                  > The book which you refer to about Carman has been referred to
                                                  > as
                                                  less
                                                  > than a definitive study. Dr. Thomas Clemens, who won his
                                                  > Doctorate
                                                  on
                                                  > an annotation of the Carman work, would be probably the best
                                                  > person
                                                  > qualified for a definitive work on the Carman manuscript.
                                                  >
                                                  > Yr. Obt. Svt.
                                                  > G E "Gerry" Mayers
                                                  >
                                                  > To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
                                                  > on
                                                  > one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
                                                  > Union,
                                                  a
                                                  > passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from the
                                                  Almighty
                                                  > God. --Anonymous
                                                  > ----- Original Message -----
                                                  > From: "Adam Zimmerli" <azimmerli@. ..>
                                                  > To: <TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com>
                                                  > Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2007 10:21 AM
                                                  > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: The Complete Story of Antietam
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  > I have to say I'm a fan of Joe Harsh's trilogy, but as far as a
                                                  > definitive study, I hear that Ezra Carman's study will be
                                                  > coming out
                                                  > this summer (at a thousand pages and a hundred dollars).
                                                  >
                                                  > --- In TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com, "James W. Durney"
                                                  > <JWD2044@>
                                                  > wrote:
                                                  > >
                                                  > > --- In TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com, "Thomas Clemens"
                                                  > > <clemenst@>
                                                  > > wrote:
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > > I would argue that had Joe Harsh finished his multi-volume
                                                  > > > work
                                                  on
                                                  > > the Union perspective, together with Confederate trilogy,
                                                  > > they
                                                  would
                                                  > be
                                                  > > definitive. But very long.
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > >
                                                  > >
                                                  > > I would only argue it would be very very very long. Having
                                                  > > read
                                                  > > some
                                                  > > of your work, I hope to see a book on the battle some day> >
                                                  > > James
                                                  > >
                                                  >






                                                  ____________________________________________________________________________________
                                                  We won't tell. Get more on shows you hate to love
                                                  (and love to hate): Yahoo! TV's Guilty Pleasures list.
                                                  http://tv.yahoo.com/collections/265

                                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                • Stephen Recker
                                                  I just spoke to a buddy of mine that is planning on going to the huge Antietam Conference at the end of this month. He was holding back because he wasn t sure
                                                  Message 24 of 29 , Jul 2, 2007
                                                  • 0 Attachment
                                                    I just spoke to a buddy of mine that is planning on going to the huge
                                                    Antietam Conference at the end of this month. He was holding back
                                                    because he wasn't sure there was still going to be room for him. I
                                                    checked it out and there is still plenty of room for folks who want to
                                                    attend. I thought I would post a note here about it so that anyone else
                                                    who wanted to go yet hadn't signed up might be assured that the
                                                    opportunity has not passed.

                                                    Info can be found at: www.chambersburgcivilwarseminars.org

                                                    I'm particularly excited to go on John Hoptak's Final Assault walk. He
                                                    says that he is going to go in an area little travelled. Ending, no
                                                    doubt, with a long speech at the monument for the 48th PA ;-)

                                                    Who else is going?

                                                    Stephen Recker
                                                  Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.