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Re: [TalkAntietam] Crossing the Potomac

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  • G E Mayers
    Stephen, Is it possible Fitz Lee could have divided his command to efficiently cross at both places? And, could it also be possible, the cavalry crossing where
    Message 1 of 17 , Jan 14, 2007
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      Stephen,

      Is it possible Fitz Lee could have divided his command to efficiently
      cross at both places? And, could it also be possible, the cavalry
      crossing where Carman et al. mention was to provide a mobile screening
      force in case any Federal forces try to "bushwhack" the rear of the
      ANV as it made the crossing?

      Yr. Obt. Svt.
      G E "Gerry" Mayers

      To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even on
      one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the Union, a
      passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from the Almighty
      God. --Anonymous
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: "Stephen Recker" <recker@...>
      To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Saturday, January 13, 2007 9:34 PM
      Subject: [TalkAntietam] Crossing the Potomac


      >I went to Poolesville today trying to get my head around the early
      >part
      > of the campaign. The Civil War Trails marker map has Fitz-Hugh Lee
      > crossing the Potomac at Edward's Ferry and coming up from the south.
      > As
      > I read it, Carman, Harsh and a bunch of other folks have him
      > crossing
      > at White's Ford, all stuck behind the infantry dring the crossing.
      > Am I
      > missing something? Thanks.
      >
      > Stephen
      >
      >
    • Thomas Clemens
      Steve, I am convinced that the cavalry crossed behind Jackson at White s Ford. it may be confusing for some since there is a White s Ferry too, and of course
      Message 2 of 17 , Jan 14, 2007
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        Steve,
        I am convinced that the cavalry crossed behind Jackson at White's Ford.
        it may be confusing for some since there is a White's Ferry too, and of
        course Edward's Ferry. But the crossing of cavalry at either Ferry
        would be time consuming. The ford could be crossed quickly and easily,
        although following the infantry would be a delay. But even cavalry
        could not wade the Ferries, so I think the sign is misleading. By the
        way, Wite's Ferry was called Conrad's Ferry at the time.

        Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
        Professor of History
        Hagerstown Community College


        >>> Stephen Recker <recker@...> 01/13/07 9:34 PM >>>
        I went to Poolesville today trying to get my head around the early part
        of the campaign. The Civil War Trails marker map has Fitz-Hugh Lee
        crossing the Potomac at Edward's Ferry and coming up from the south. As
        I read it, Carman, Harsh and a bunch of other folks have him crossing
        at White's Ford, all stuck behind the infantry dring the crossing. Am I
        missing something? Thanks.

        Stephen
      • Stephen Recker
        Tom, Thanks. I was wondering about the name change. I just saw an old map and it had an arrow towards Conrad s Ferry. I m thinking, sheesh, not ANOTHER
        Message 3 of 17 , Jan 14, 2007
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          Tom,

          Thanks. I was wondering about the name change. I just saw an old map
          and it had an arrow towards Conrad's Ferry. I'm thinking, sheesh, not
          ANOTHER crossing!

          Stephen

          On Sunday, January 14, 2007, at 04:27 PM, Thomas Clemens wrote:

          > I am convinced that the cavalry crossed behind Jackson at White's Ford.
          > it may be confusing for some since there is a White's Ferry too, and of
          > course Edward's Ferry. But the crossing of cavalry at either Ferry
          > would be time consuming. The ford could be crossed quickly and easily,
          > although following the infantry would be a delay. But even cavalry
          > could not wade the Ferries, so I think the sign is misleading. By the
          > way, Wite's Ferry was called Conrad's Ferry at the time.
          >
        • Cory Newby
          Tom, I love the new Antietam web site, but those bottom-of-the-page factoids are not always accurate. This is a cut-and-paste from one seen today: William
          Message 4 of 17 , Jan 20, 2007
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            Tom,

            I love the new Antietam web site, but those bottom-of-the-page factoids are not always accurate. This is a cut-and-paste from one seen today:

            William McKinley served at Antietam as a Commissary Sergeant in the
            23rd Ohio Infantry before becoming the nation’s 24th President. A
            monument to him at Antietam was dedicated in his memory on October 13,
            1903, two years after he was assisinated.

            Unfortunately, McKinley was the 25th President and "assassinated" is mis-spelled.

            Cory Newby



            ----- Original Message ----
            From: Tom Shay <RoteBaron@...>
            To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Saturday, January 13, 2007 6:22:07 PM
            Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Artillery Question













            Here is the info that I had found on NPS Antietam website. I think it had appeared as a factoid at bottom of the screen (including the spelling mistake):



            "Over 500 cannons particpated in the Battle of Antietam, firing over 50000 rounds of ammunition."



            Tom Shay



            ----- Original Message -----

            From: bdowney@aotw. org

            To: TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com

            Sent: Saturday, January 13, 2007 1:42 PM

            Subject: RE: [TalkAntietam] Artillery Question



            Hi Mike,



            I've not seen the 50,000 figure in print, that I can recall. I thought

            at first that the number must be way too high, but perhaps not. Using

            Johnson/Anderson figures for guns at Sharpsburg on the 17th as 542 (301

            Fed, 241 Confed), 50 000 is just under 100 rounds per gun present.



            This still sounds like a lot, but is not out of the question. Anybody

            got decent stats? Tom?



            Brian



            > -------- Original Message --------

            > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Artillery Question

            > From: Darmok4349@aol. com

            > Date: Sat, January 13, 2007 12:32 am

            > To: TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com

            >

            > In doing my research I had found a statistic that stated that there were

            > over 50,000 artillery rounds fired at the Battle of Antietam.

            >

            > I thought I saw it on the NPS site, but now I can't find it again. Did I

            > imagine this number? Does anyone know the correct answer, and were it can be

            > found?

            >

            > Mike

            >

            >

            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

            >

            >

            >

            >

            >

            > Yahoo! Groups Links

            >

            >

            >



            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]














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          • Tom Shay
            Cory, I forwarded your comments to Stephanie Gray at Antietam NPS. Thanks for pointing them out. Tom Shay ... From: Cory Newby To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
            Message 5 of 17 , Jan 21, 2007
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              Cory,

              I forwarded your comments to Stephanie Gray at Antietam NPS.
              Thanks for pointing them out.

              Tom Shay

              ----- Original Message -----
              From: Cory Newby
              To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Saturday, January 20, 2007 9:18 PM
              Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Artillery Question




              I love the new Antietam web site, but those bottom-of-the-page factoids are not always accurate. This is a cut-and-paste from one seen today:

              William McKinley served at Antietam as a Commissary Sergeant in the
              23rd Ohio Infantry before becoming the nation's 24th President. A
              monument to him at Antietam was dedicated in his memory on October 13,
              1903, two years after he was assisinated.

              Unfortunately, McKinley was the 25th President and "assassinated" is mis-spelled.

              Cory Newby

              Visit Your Group
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            • G E Mayers
              Cory; Tom said he has already taken care of this.......... Yr. Obt. Svt. G E Gerry Mayers To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even on
              Message 6 of 17 , Jan 22, 2007
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                Cory;

                Tom said he has already taken care of this..........

                Yr. Obt. Svt.
                G E "Gerry" Mayers

                To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even on
                one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the Union, a
                passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from the Almighty
                God. --Anonymous
                ----- Original Message -----
                From: "Cory Newby" <corykv@...>
                To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                Sent: Saturday, January 20, 2007 9:18 PM
                Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Artillery Question



                Tom,

                I love the new Antietam web site, but those bottom-of-the-page
                factoids are not always accurate. This is a cut-and-paste from one
                seen today:

                William McKinley served at Antietam as a Commissary Sergeant in the
                23rd Ohio Infantry before becoming the nation's 24th President. A
                monument to him at Antietam was dedicated in his memory on October 13,
                1903, two years after he was assisinated.

                Unfortunately, McKinley was the 25th President and "assassinated" is
                mis-spelled.

                Cory Newby



                ----- Original Message ----
                From: Tom Shay <RoteBaron@...>
                To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Saturday, January 13, 2007 6:22:07 PM
                Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Artillery Question













                Here is the info that I had found on NPS Antietam website.
                I think it had appeared as a factoid at bottom of the screen
                (including the spelling mistake):



                "Over 500 cannons particpated in the Battle of Antietam, firing over
                50000 rounds of ammunition."



                Tom Shay



                ----- Original Message -----

                From: bdowney@aotw. org

                To: TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com

                Sent: Saturday, January 13, 2007 1:42 PM

                Subject: RE: [TalkAntietam] Artillery Question



                Hi Mike,



                I've not seen the 50,000 figure in print, that I can recall. I thought

                at first that the number must be way too high, but perhaps not.
                Using

                Johnson/Anderson figures for guns at Sharpsburg on the 17th as 542
                (301

                Fed, 241 Confed), 50 000 is just under 100 rounds per gun present.



                This still sounds like a lot, but is not out of the question. Anybody

                got decent stats? Tom?



                Brian



                > -------- Original Message --------

                > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Artillery Question

                > From: Darmok4349@aol. com

                > Date: Sat, January 13, 2007 12:32 am

                > To: TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com

                >

                > In doing my research I had found a statistic that stated that
                there were

                > over 50,000 artillery rounds fired at the Battle of Antietam.

                >

                > I thought I saw it on the NPS site, but now I can't find it again.
                Did I

                > imagine this number? Does anyone know the correct answer, and were
                it can be

                > found?

                >

                > Mike

                >

                >

                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                >

                >

                >

                >

                >

                > Yahoo! Groups Links

                >

                >

                >



                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]














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                Get your game face on with the latest PS3 news and previews at Yahoo!
                Games.
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              • Cory Newby
                Gerry, Tom, I didn t mean to sound overly critical -- I only intended to warn caution when using those factoids as sources (relevant to the original artillery
                Message 7 of 17 , Jan 26, 2007
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                  Gerry, Tom,

                  I didn't mean to sound overly critical -- I only intended to warn caution when using those factoids as sources (relevant to the original artillery question). Typos happen. Even in light of the typos (which will be flushed out), the new NPS site is a considerable enhancement from its previous version.

                  Best Regards,
                  Cory Newby





                  ----- Original Message ----
                  From: G E Mayers <gerry1952@...>
                  To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Monday, January 22, 2007 8:58:18 AM
                  Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Artillery Question

                  Cory;

                  Tom said he has already taken care of this........ ..

                  Yr. Obt. Svt.
                  G E "Gerry" Mayers

                  To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even on
                  one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the Union, a
                  passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from the Almighty
                  God. --Anonymous
                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: "Cory Newby" <corykv@yahoo. com>
                  To: <TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com>
                  Sent: Saturday, January 20, 2007 9:18 PM
                  Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Artillery Question

                  Tom,

                  I love the new Antietam web site, but those bottom-of-the- page
                  factoids are not always accurate. This is a cut-and-paste from one
                  seen today:

                  William McKinley served at Antietam as a Commissary Sergeant in the
                  23rd Ohio Infantry before becoming the nation's 24th President. A
                  monument to him at Antietam was dedicated in his memory on October 13,
                  1903, two years after he was assisinated.

                  Unfortunately, McKinley was the 25th President and "assassinated" is
                  mis-spelled.

                  Cory Newby

                  ----- Original Message ----
                  From: Tom Shay <RoteBaron@comcast. net>
                  To: TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com
                  Sent: Saturday, January 13, 2007 6:22:07 PM
                  Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Artillery Question

                  Here is the info that I had found on NPS Antietam website.
                  I think it had appeared as a factoid at bottom of the screen
                  (including the spelling mistake):

                  "Over 500 cannons particpated in the Battle of Antietam, firing over
                  50000 rounds of ammunition."

                  Tom Shay

                  ----- Original Message -----

                  From: bdowney@aotw. org

                  To: TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com

                  Sent: Saturday, January 13, 2007 1:42 PM

                  Subject: RE: [TalkAntietam] Artillery Question

                  Hi Mike,

                  I've not seen the 50,000 figure in print, that I can recall. I thought

                  at first that the number must be way too high, but perhaps not.
                  Using

                  Johnson/Anderson figures for guns at Sharpsburg on the 17th as 542
                  (301

                  Fed, 241 Confed), 50 000 is just under 100 rounds per gun present.

                  This still sounds like a lot, but is not out of the question. Anybody

                  got decent stats? Tom?

                  Brian

                  > -------- Original Message --------

                  > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Artillery Question

                  > From: Darmok4349@aol. com

                  > Date: Sat, January 13, 2007 12:32 am

                  > To: TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com

                  >

                  > In doing my research I had found a statistic that stated that
                  there were

                  > over 50,000 artillery rounds fired at the Battle of Antietam.

                  >

                  > I thought I saw it on the NPS site, but now I can't find it again.
                  Did I

                  > imagine this number? Does anyone know the correct answer, and were
                  it can be

                  > found?

                  >

                  > Mike

                  >

                  >

                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                  >

                  >

                  >

                  >

                  >

                  > Yahoo! Groups Links

                  >

                  >

                  >

                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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                • Mark A. Pflum
                  ... is? ... Well, I can t say that this figure is definitive or nay. However, if you take into consideration that every piece that went into action during the
                  Message 8 of 17 , Jan 26, 2007
                  • 0 Attachment
                    --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, Darmok4349@... wrote:
                    >
                    > Thanks,
                    >
                    > Any Idea on how to find out what the NPS source for this information
                    is?
                    >
                    > Mike
                    >


                    Well, I can't say that this figure is definitive or nay. However, if
                    you take into consideration that every piece that went into action
                    during the battle had between 128 (12Pdr.) and 200 (10Pdr. and 3")
                    rounds with it, and that most of them expended at least 80% of their
                    ammunition, you find that the figure's truth is entirely possible.

                    This also is assuming that none of the caissons were sent to the rear
                    to refill . . .

                    Mark A. Pflum
                    Ringgold !!!
                  • Thomas Clemens
                    I think Mark has it right. If someone REALLY wanted to know they could go to the National Archives and pull out the quarterly returns for the units involved,
                    Message 9 of 17 , Jan 27, 2007
                    • 0 Attachment
                      I think Mark has it right. If someone REALLY wanted to know they could go to the National Archives and pull out the quarterly returns for the units involved, see what their supply of ammo was on Sept. 1 and then compare to Jan. 1 1863 and see what re-supply they report. I doubt anybody at the park did that, I think it is a general figure. A few of the after-action reports mention the amount of ammo expended, Tompkins RI for example expended somewhere around 1,100 rounds for six guns. The 20 pdr. Parrotts expended nearly all their ammo, etc. so the figure is likely an accurate estimate.

                      Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
                      Professor of History
                      Hagerstown Community College


                      >>> "Mark A. Pflum" <ringgold_redleg@...> 01/27/07 2:12 AM >>>
                      --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, Darmok4349@... wrote:
                      >
                      > Thanks,
                      >
                      > Any Idea on how to find out what the NPS source for this information
                      is?
                      >
                      > Mike
                      >


                      Well, I can't say that this figure is definitive or nay. However, if
                      you take into consideration that every piece that went into action
                      during the battle had between 128 (12Pdr.) and 200 (10Pdr. and 3")
                      rounds with it, and that most of them expended at least 80% of their
                      ammunition, you find that the figure's truth is entirely possible.

                      This also is assuming that none of the caissons were sent to the rear
                      to refill . . .

                      Mark A. Pflum
                      Ringgold !!!
                    • G E Mayers
                      Dear Mark, Glad to hear from you after all this time! Hope you are healthy, etc. Yr. Obt. Svt. G E Gerry Mayers To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage,
                      Message 10 of 17 , Jan 27, 2007
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Dear Mark,

                        Glad to hear from you after all this time! Hope you are healthy, etc.

                        Yr. Obt. Svt.
                        G E "Gerry" Mayers

                        To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even on
                        one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the Union, a
                        passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from the Almighty
                        God. --Anonymous
                        ----- Original Message -----
                        From: "Mark A. Pflum" <ringgold_redleg@...>
                        To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                        Sent: Saturday, January 27, 2007 2:12 AM
                        Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Artillery Question


                        --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, Darmok4349@... wrote:
                        >
                        > Thanks,
                        >
                        > Any Idea on how to find out what the NPS source for this information
                        is?
                        >
                        > Mike
                        >


                        Well, I can't say that this figure is definitive or nay. However, if
                        you take into consideration that every piece that went into action
                        during the battle had between 128 (12Pdr.) and 200 (10Pdr. and 3")
                        rounds with it, and that most of them expended at least 80% of their
                        ammunition, you find that the figure's truth is entirely possible.

                        This also is assuming that none of the caissons were sent to the rear
                        to refill . . .

                        Mark A. Pflum
                        Ringgold !!!
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