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Re: [TalkAntietam] Crossing the Potomac

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  • Stephen Recker
    Thanks! Stephen
    Message 1 of 17 , Jan 14, 2007
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      Thanks!

      Stephen

      On Saturday, January 13, 2007, at 10:31 PM, bdowney@... wrote:

      > FWIW I agree with your interpretation. Cavalry crossed at White's on
      > the afternoon of the 5th behind most of Jackson's Command. They then
      > turn south/east toward Poolsville.
      >
    • G E Mayers
      Stephen, Is it possible Fitz Lee could have divided his command to efficiently cross at both places? And, could it also be possible, the cavalry crossing where
      Message 2 of 17 , Jan 14, 2007
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        Stephen,

        Is it possible Fitz Lee could have divided his command to efficiently
        cross at both places? And, could it also be possible, the cavalry
        crossing where Carman et al. mention was to provide a mobile screening
        force in case any Federal forces try to "bushwhack" the rear of the
        ANV as it made the crossing?

        Yr. Obt. Svt.
        G E "Gerry" Mayers

        To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even on
        one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the Union, a
        passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from the Almighty
        God. --Anonymous
        ----- Original Message -----
        From: "Stephen Recker" <recker@...>
        To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Saturday, January 13, 2007 9:34 PM
        Subject: [TalkAntietam] Crossing the Potomac


        >I went to Poolesville today trying to get my head around the early
        >part
        > of the campaign. The Civil War Trails marker map has Fitz-Hugh Lee
        > crossing the Potomac at Edward's Ferry and coming up from the south.
        > As
        > I read it, Carman, Harsh and a bunch of other folks have him
        > crossing
        > at White's Ford, all stuck behind the infantry dring the crossing.
        > Am I
        > missing something? Thanks.
        >
        > Stephen
        >
        >
      • Thomas Clemens
        Steve, I am convinced that the cavalry crossed behind Jackson at White s Ford. it may be confusing for some since there is a White s Ferry too, and of course
        Message 3 of 17 , Jan 14, 2007
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          Steve,
          I am convinced that the cavalry crossed behind Jackson at White's Ford.
          it may be confusing for some since there is a White's Ferry too, and of
          course Edward's Ferry. But the crossing of cavalry at either Ferry
          would be time consuming. The ford could be crossed quickly and easily,
          although following the infantry would be a delay. But even cavalry
          could not wade the Ferries, so I think the sign is misleading. By the
          way, Wite's Ferry was called Conrad's Ferry at the time.

          Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
          Professor of History
          Hagerstown Community College


          >>> Stephen Recker <recker@...> 01/13/07 9:34 PM >>>
          I went to Poolesville today trying to get my head around the early part
          of the campaign. The Civil War Trails marker map has Fitz-Hugh Lee
          crossing the Potomac at Edward's Ferry and coming up from the south. As
          I read it, Carman, Harsh and a bunch of other folks have him crossing
          at White's Ford, all stuck behind the infantry dring the crossing. Am I
          missing something? Thanks.

          Stephen
        • Stephen Recker
          Tom, Thanks. I was wondering about the name change. I just saw an old map and it had an arrow towards Conrad s Ferry. I m thinking, sheesh, not ANOTHER
          Message 4 of 17 , Jan 14, 2007
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            Tom,

            Thanks. I was wondering about the name change. I just saw an old map
            and it had an arrow towards Conrad's Ferry. I'm thinking, sheesh, not
            ANOTHER crossing!

            Stephen

            On Sunday, January 14, 2007, at 04:27 PM, Thomas Clemens wrote:

            > I am convinced that the cavalry crossed behind Jackson at White's Ford.
            > it may be confusing for some since there is a White's Ferry too, and of
            > course Edward's Ferry. But the crossing of cavalry at either Ferry
            > would be time consuming. The ford could be crossed quickly and easily,
            > although following the infantry would be a delay. But even cavalry
            > could not wade the Ferries, so I think the sign is misleading. By the
            > way, Wite's Ferry was called Conrad's Ferry at the time.
            >
          • Cory Newby
            Tom, I love the new Antietam web site, but those bottom-of-the-page factoids are not always accurate. This is a cut-and-paste from one seen today: William
            Message 5 of 17 , Jan 20, 2007
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              Tom,

              I love the new Antietam web site, but those bottom-of-the-page factoids are not always accurate. This is a cut-and-paste from one seen today:

              William McKinley served at Antietam as a Commissary Sergeant in the
              23rd Ohio Infantry before becoming the nation’s 24th President. A
              monument to him at Antietam was dedicated in his memory on October 13,
              1903, two years after he was assisinated.

              Unfortunately, McKinley was the 25th President and "assassinated" is mis-spelled.

              Cory Newby



              ----- Original Message ----
              From: Tom Shay <RoteBaron@...>
              To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Saturday, January 13, 2007 6:22:07 PM
              Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Artillery Question













              Here is the info that I had found on NPS Antietam website. I think it had appeared as a factoid at bottom of the screen (including the spelling mistake):



              "Over 500 cannons particpated in the Battle of Antietam, firing over 50000 rounds of ammunition."



              Tom Shay



              ----- Original Message -----

              From: bdowney@aotw. org

              To: TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com

              Sent: Saturday, January 13, 2007 1:42 PM

              Subject: RE: [TalkAntietam] Artillery Question



              Hi Mike,



              I've not seen the 50,000 figure in print, that I can recall. I thought

              at first that the number must be way too high, but perhaps not. Using

              Johnson/Anderson figures for guns at Sharpsburg on the 17th as 542 (301

              Fed, 241 Confed), 50 000 is just under 100 rounds per gun present.



              This still sounds like a lot, but is not out of the question. Anybody

              got decent stats? Tom?



              Brian



              > -------- Original Message --------

              > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Artillery Question

              > From: Darmok4349@aol. com

              > Date: Sat, January 13, 2007 12:32 am

              > To: TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com

              >

              > In doing my research I had found a statistic that stated that there were

              > over 50,000 artillery rounds fired at the Battle of Antietam.

              >

              > I thought I saw it on the NPS site, but now I can't find it again. Did I

              > imagine this number? Does anyone know the correct answer, and were it can be

              > found?

              >

              > Mike

              >

              >

              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

              >

              >

              >

              >

              >

              > Yahoo! Groups Links

              >

              >

              >



              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]














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            • Tom Shay
              Cory, I forwarded your comments to Stephanie Gray at Antietam NPS. Thanks for pointing them out. Tom Shay ... From: Cory Newby To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
              Message 6 of 17 , Jan 21, 2007
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                Cory,

                I forwarded your comments to Stephanie Gray at Antietam NPS.
                Thanks for pointing them out.

                Tom Shay

                ----- Original Message -----
                From: Cory Newby
                To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Saturday, January 20, 2007 9:18 PM
                Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Artillery Question




                I love the new Antietam web site, but those bottom-of-the-page factoids are not always accurate. This is a cut-and-paste from one seen today:

                William McKinley served at Antietam as a Commissary Sergeant in the
                23rd Ohio Infantry before becoming the nation's 24th President. A
                monument to him at Antietam was dedicated in his memory on October 13,
                1903, two years after he was assisinated.

                Unfortunately, McKinley was the 25th President and "assassinated" is mis-spelled.

                Cory Newby

                Visit Your Group
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              • G E Mayers
                Cory; Tom said he has already taken care of this.......... Yr. Obt. Svt. G E Gerry Mayers To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even on
                Message 7 of 17 , Jan 22, 2007
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                  Cory;

                  Tom said he has already taken care of this..........

                  Yr. Obt. Svt.
                  G E "Gerry" Mayers

                  To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even on
                  one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the Union, a
                  passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from the Almighty
                  God. --Anonymous
                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: "Cory Newby" <corykv@...>
                  To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                  Sent: Saturday, January 20, 2007 9:18 PM
                  Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Artillery Question



                  Tom,

                  I love the new Antietam web site, but those bottom-of-the-page
                  factoids are not always accurate. This is a cut-and-paste from one
                  seen today:

                  William McKinley served at Antietam as a Commissary Sergeant in the
                  23rd Ohio Infantry before becoming the nation's 24th President. A
                  monument to him at Antietam was dedicated in his memory on October 13,
                  1903, two years after he was assisinated.

                  Unfortunately, McKinley was the 25th President and "assassinated" is
                  mis-spelled.

                  Cory Newby



                  ----- Original Message ----
                  From: Tom Shay <RoteBaron@...>
                  To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Saturday, January 13, 2007 6:22:07 PM
                  Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Artillery Question













                  Here is the info that I had found on NPS Antietam website.
                  I think it had appeared as a factoid at bottom of the screen
                  (including the spelling mistake):



                  "Over 500 cannons particpated in the Battle of Antietam, firing over
                  50000 rounds of ammunition."



                  Tom Shay



                  ----- Original Message -----

                  From: bdowney@aotw. org

                  To: TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com

                  Sent: Saturday, January 13, 2007 1:42 PM

                  Subject: RE: [TalkAntietam] Artillery Question



                  Hi Mike,



                  I've not seen the 50,000 figure in print, that I can recall. I thought

                  at first that the number must be way too high, but perhaps not.
                  Using

                  Johnson/Anderson figures for guns at Sharpsburg on the 17th as 542
                  (301

                  Fed, 241 Confed), 50 000 is just under 100 rounds per gun present.



                  This still sounds like a lot, but is not out of the question. Anybody

                  got decent stats? Tom?



                  Brian



                  > -------- Original Message --------

                  > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Artillery Question

                  > From: Darmok4349@aol. com

                  > Date: Sat, January 13, 2007 12:32 am

                  > To: TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com

                  >

                  > In doing my research I had found a statistic that stated that
                  there were

                  > over 50,000 artillery rounds fired at the Battle of Antietam.

                  >

                  > I thought I saw it on the NPS site, but now I can't find it again.
                  Did I

                  > imagine this number? Does anyone know the correct answer, and were
                  it can be

                  > found?

                  >

                  > Mike

                  >

                  >

                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                  >

                  >

                  >

                  >

                  >

                  > Yahoo! Groups Links

                  >

                  >

                  >



                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]














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                  Be a PS3 game guru.
                  Get your game face on with the latest PS3 news and previews at Yahoo!
                  Games.
                  http://videogames.yahoo.com/platform?platform=120121

                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Cory Newby
                  Gerry, Tom, I didn t mean to sound overly critical -- I only intended to warn caution when using those factoids as sources (relevant to the original artillery
                  Message 8 of 17 , Jan 26, 2007
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                    Gerry, Tom,

                    I didn't mean to sound overly critical -- I only intended to warn caution when using those factoids as sources (relevant to the original artillery question). Typos happen. Even in light of the typos (which will be flushed out), the new NPS site is a considerable enhancement from its previous version.

                    Best Regards,
                    Cory Newby





                    ----- Original Message ----
                    From: G E Mayers <gerry1952@...>
                    To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Monday, January 22, 2007 8:58:18 AM
                    Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Artillery Question

                    Cory;

                    Tom said he has already taken care of this........ ..

                    Yr. Obt. Svt.
                    G E "Gerry" Mayers

                    To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even on
                    one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the Union, a
                    passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from the Almighty
                    God. --Anonymous
                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: "Cory Newby" <corykv@yahoo. com>
                    To: <TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com>
                    Sent: Saturday, January 20, 2007 9:18 PM
                    Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Artillery Question

                    Tom,

                    I love the new Antietam web site, but those bottom-of-the- page
                    factoids are not always accurate. This is a cut-and-paste from one
                    seen today:

                    William McKinley served at Antietam as a Commissary Sergeant in the
                    23rd Ohio Infantry before becoming the nation's 24th President. A
                    monument to him at Antietam was dedicated in his memory on October 13,
                    1903, two years after he was assisinated.

                    Unfortunately, McKinley was the 25th President and "assassinated" is
                    mis-spelled.

                    Cory Newby

                    ----- Original Message ----
                    From: Tom Shay <RoteBaron@comcast. net>
                    To: TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com
                    Sent: Saturday, January 13, 2007 6:22:07 PM
                    Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Artillery Question

                    Here is the info that I had found on NPS Antietam website.
                    I think it had appeared as a factoid at bottom of the screen
                    (including the spelling mistake):

                    "Over 500 cannons particpated in the Battle of Antietam, firing over
                    50000 rounds of ammunition."

                    Tom Shay

                    ----- Original Message -----

                    From: bdowney@aotw. org

                    To: TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com

                    Sent: Saturday, January 13, 2007 1:42 PM

                    Subject: RE: [TalkAntietam] Artillery Question

                    Hi Mike,

                    I've not seen the 50,000 figure in print, that I can recall. I thought

                    at first that the number must be way too high, but perhaps not.
                    Using

                    Johnson/Anderson figures for guns at Sharpsburg on the 17th as 542
                    (301

                    Fed, 241 Confed), 50 000 is just under 100 rounds per gun present.

                    This still sounds like a lot, but is not out of the question. Anybody

                    got decent stats? Tom?

                    Brian

                    > -------- Original Message --------

                    > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Artillery Question

                    > From: Darmok4349@aol. com

                    > Date: Sat, January 13, 2007 12:32 am

                    > To: TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com

                    >

                    > In doing my research I had found a statistic that stated that
                    there were

                    > over 50,000 artillery rounds fired at the Battle of Antietam.

                    >

                    > I thought I saw it on the NPS site, but now I can't find it again.
                    Did I

                    > imagine this number? Does anyone know the correct answer, and were
                    it can be

                    > found?

                    >

                    > Mike

                    >

                    >

                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                    >

                    >

                    >

                    >

                    >

                    > Yahoo! Groups Links

                    >

                    >

                    >

                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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                  • Mark A. Pflum
                    ... is? ... Well, I can t say that this figure is definitive or nay. However, if you take into consideration that every piece that went into action during the
                    Message 9 of 17 , Jan 26, 2007
                    • 0 Attachment
                      --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, Darmok4349@... wrote:
                      >
                      > Thanks,
                      >
                      > Any Idea on how to find out what the NPS source for this information
                      is?
                      >
                      > Mike
                      >


                      Well, I can't say that this figure is definitive or nay. However, if
                      you take into consideration that every piece that went into action
                      during the battle had between 128 (12Pdr.) and 200 (10Pdr. and 3")
                      rounds with it, and that most of them expended at least 80% of their
                      ammunition, you find that the figure's truth is entirely possible.

                      This also is assuming that none of the caissons were sent to the rear
                      to refill . . .

                      Mark A. Pflum
                      Ringgold !!!
                    • Thomas Clemens
                      I think Mark has it right. If someone REALLY wanted to know they could go to the National Archives and pull out the quarterly returns for the units involved,
                      Message 10 of 17 , Jan 27, 2007
                      • 0 Attachment
                        I think Mark has it right. If someone REALLY wanted to know they could go to the National Archives and pull out the quarterly returns for the units involved, see what their supply of ammo was on Sept. 1 and then compare to Jan. 1 1863 and see what re-supply they report. I doubt anybody at the park did that, I think it is a general figure. A few of the after-action reports mention the amount of ammo expended, Tompkins RI for example expended somewhere around 1,100 rounds for six guns. The 20 pdr. Parrotts expended nearly all their ammo, etc. so the figure is likely an accurate estimate.

                        Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
                        Professor of History
                        Hagerstown Community College


                        >>> "Mark A. Pflum" <ringgold_redleg@...> 01/27/07 2:12 AM >>>
                        --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, Darmok4349@... wrote:
                        >
                        > Thanks,
                        >
                        > Any Idea on how to find out what the NPS source for this information
                        is?
                        >
                        > Mike
                        >


                        Well, I can't say that this figure is definitive or nay. However, if
                        you take into consideration that every piece that went into action
                        during the battle had between 128 (12Pdr.) and 200 (10Pdr. and 3")
                        rounds with it, and that most of them expended at least 80% of their
                        ammunition, you find that the figure's truth is entirely possible.

                        This also is assuming that none of the caissons were sent to the rear
                        to refill . . .

                        Mark A. Pflum
                        Ringgold !!!
                      • G E Mayers
                        Dear Mark, Glad to hear from you after all this time! Hope you are healthy, etc. Yr. Obt. Svt. G E Gerry Mayers To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage,
                        Message 11 of 17 , Jan 27, 2007
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Dear Mark,

                          Glad to hear from you after all this time! Hope you are healthy, etc.

                          Yr. Obt. Svt.
                          G E "Gerry" Mayers

                          To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even on
                          one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the Union, a
                          passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from the Almighty
                          God. --Anonymous
                          ----- Original Message -----
                          From: "Mark A. Pflum" <ringgold_redleg@...>
                          To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                          Sent: Saturday, January 27, 2007 2:12 AM
                          Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Artillery Question


                          --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, Darmok4349@... wrote:
                          >
                          > Thanks,
                          >
                          > Any Idea on how to find out what the NPS source for this information
                          is?
                          >
                          > Mike
                          >


                          Well, I can't say that this figure is definitive or nay. However, if
                          you take into consideration that every piece that went into action
                          during the battle had between 128 (12Pdr.) and 200 (10Pdr. and 3")
                          rounds with it, and that most of them expended at least 80% of their
                          ammunition, you find that the figure's truth is entirely possible.

                          This also is assuming that none of the caissons were sent to the rear
                          to refill . . .

                          Mark A. Pflum
                          Ringgold !!!
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