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Re: [TalkAntietam] Artillery Question

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  • Darmok4349@aol.com
    Thanks, Any Idea on how to find out what the NPS source for this information is? Mike [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    Message 1 of 17 , Jan 14, 2007
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      Thanks,

      Any Idea on how to find out what the NPS source for this information is?

      Mike


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Stephen Recker
      Thanks! Stephen
      Message 2 of 17 , Jan 14, 2007
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        Thanks!

        Stephen

        On Saturday, January 13, 2007, at 10:31 PM, bdowney@... wrote:

        > FWIW I agree with your interpretation. Cavalry crossed at White's on
        > the afternoon of the 5th behind most of Jackson's Command. They then
        > turn south/east toward Poolsville.
        >
      • G E Mayers
        Stephen, Is it possible Fitz Lee could have divided his command to efficiently cross at both places? And, could it also be possible, the cavalry crossing where
        Message 3 of 17 , Jan 14, 2007
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          Stephen,

          Is it possible Fitz Lee could have divided his command to efficiently
          cross at both places? And, could it also be possible, the cavalry
          crossing where Carman et al. mention was to provide a mobile screening
          force in case any Federal forces try to "bushwhack" the rear of the
          ANV as it made the crossing?

          Yr. Obt. Svt.
          G E "Gerry" Mayers

          To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even on
          one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the Union, a
          passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from the Almighty
          God. --Anonymous
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: "Stephen Recker" <recker@...>
          To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Saturday, January 13, 2007 9:34 PM
          Subject: [TalkAntietam] Crossing the Potomac


          >I went to Poolesville today trying to get my head around the early
          >part
          > of the campaign. The Civil War Trails marker map has Fitz-Hugh Lee
          > crossing the Potomac at Edward's Ferry and coming up from the south.
          > As
          > I read it, Carman, Harsh and a bunch of other folks have him
          > crossing
          > at White's Ford, all stuck behind the infantry dring the crossing.
          > Am I
          > missing something? Thanks.
          >
          > Stephen
          >
          >
        • Thomas Clemens
          Steve, I am convinced that the cavalry crossed behind Jackson at White s Ford. it may be confusing for some since there is a White s Ferry too, and of course
          Message 4 of 17 , Jan 14, 2007
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            Steve,
            I am convinced that the cavalry crossed behind Jackson at White's Ford.
            it may be confusing for some since there is a White's Ferry too, and of
            course Edward's Ferry. But the crossing of cavalry at either Ferry
            would be time consuming. The ford could be crossed quickly and easily,
            although following the infantry would be a delay. But even cavalry
            could not wade the Ferries, so I think the sign is misleading. By the
            way, Wite's Ferry was called Conrad's Ferry at the time.

            Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
            Professor of History
            Hagerstown Community College


            >>> Stephen Recker <recker@...> 01/13/07 9:34 PM >>>
            I went to Poolesville today trying to get my head around the early part
            of the campaign. The Civil War Trails marker map has Fitz-Hugh Lee
            crossing the Potomac at Edward's Ferry and coming up from the south. As
            I read it, Carman, Harsh and a bunch of other folks have him crossing
            at White's Ford, all stuck behind the infantry dring the crossing. Am I
            missing something? Thanks.

            Stephen
          • Stephen Recker
            Tom, Thanks. I was wondering about the name change. I just saw an old map and it had an arrow towards Conrad s Ferry. I m thinking, sheesh, not ANOTHER
            Message 5 of 17 , Jan 14, 2007
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              Tom,

              Thanks. I was wondering about the name change. I just saw an old map
              and it had an arrow towards Conrad's Ferry. I'm thinking, sheesh, not
              ANOTHER crossing!

              Stephen

              On Sunday, January 14, 2007, at 04:27 PM, Thomas Clemens wrote:

              > I am convinced that the cavalry crossed behind Jackson at White's Ford.
              > it may be confusing for some since there is a White's Ferry too, and of
              > course Edward's Ferry. But the crossing of cavalry at either Ferry
              > would be time consuming. The ford could be crossed quickly and easily,
              > although following the infantry would be a delay. But even cavalry
              > could not wade the Ferries, so I think the sign is misleading. By the
              > way, Wite's Ferry was called Conrad's Ferry at the time.
              >
            • Cory Newby
              Tom, I love the new Antietam web site, but those bottom-of-the-page factoids are not always accurate. This is a cut-and-paste from one seen today: William
              Message 6 of 17 , Jan 20, 2007
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                Tom,

                I love the new Antietam web site, but those bottom-of-the-page factoids are not always accurate. This is a cut-and-paste from one seen today:

                William McKinley served at Antietam as a Commissary Sergeant in the
                23rd Ohio Infantry before becoming the nation’s 24th President. A
                monument to him at Antietam was dedicated in his memory on October 13,
                1903, two years after he was assisinated.

                Unfortunately, McKinley was the 25th President and "assassinated" is mis-spelled.

                Cory Newby



                ----- Original Message ----
                From: Tom Shay <RoteBaron@...>
                To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Saturday, January 13, 2007 6:22:07 PM
                Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Artillery Question













                Here is the info that I had found on NPS Antietam website. I think it had appeared as a factoid at bottom of the screen (including the spelling mistake):



                "Over 500 cannons particpated in the Battle of Antietam, firing over 50000 rounds of ammunition."



                Tom Shay



                ----- Original Message -----

                From: bdowney@aotw. org

                To: TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com

                Sent: Saturday, January 13, 2007 1:42 PM

                Subject: RE: [TalkAntietam] Artillery Question



                Hi Mike,



                I've not seen the 50,000 figure in print, that I can recall. I thought

                at first that the number must be way too high, but perhaps not. Using

                Johnson/Anderson figures for guns at Sharpsburg on the 17th as 542 (301

                Fed, 241 Confed), 50 000 is just under 100 rounds per gun present.



                This still sounds like a lot, but is not out of the question. Anybody

                got decent stats? Tom?



                Brian



                > -------- Original Message --------

                > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Artillery Question

                > From: Darmok4349@aol. com

                > Date: Sat, January 13, 2007 12:32 am

                > To: TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com

                >

                > In doing my research I had found a statistic that stated that there were

                > over 50,000 artillery rounds fired at the Battle of Antietam.

                >

                > I thought I saw it on the NPS site, but now I can't find it again. Did I

                > imagine this number? Does anyone know the correct answer, and were it can be

                > found?

                >

                > Mike

                >

                >

                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                >

                >

                >

                >

                >

                > Yahoo! Groups Links

                >

                >

                >



                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]














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              • Tom Shay
                Cory, I forwarded your comments to Stephanie Gray at Antietam NPS. Thanks for pointing them out. Tom Shay ... From: Cory Newby To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                Message 7 of 17 , Jan 21, 2007
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                  Cory,

                  I forwarded your comments to Stephanie Gray at Antietam NPS.
                  Thanks for pointing them out.

                  Tom Shay

                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: Cory Newby
                  To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Saturday, January 20, 2007 9:18 PM
                  Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Artillery Question




                  I love the new Antietam web site, but those bottom-of-the-page factoids are not always accurate. This is a cut-and-paste from one seen today:

                  William McKinley served at Antietam as a Commissary Sergeant in the
                  23rd Ohio Infantry before becoming the nation's 24th President. A
                  monument to him at Antietam was dedicated in his memory on October 13,
                  1903, two years after he was assisinated.

                  Unfortunately, McKinley was the 25th President and "assassinated" is mis-spelled.

                  Cory Newby

                  Visit Your Group
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                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • G E Mayers
                  Cory; Tom said he has already taken care of this.......... Yr. Obt. Svt. G E Gerry Mayers To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even on
                  Message 8 of 17 , Jan 22, 2007
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                    Cory;

                    Tom said he has already taken care of this..........

                    Yr. Obt. Svt.
                    G E "Gerry" Mayers

                    To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even on
                    one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the Union, a
                    passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from the Almighty
                    God. --Anonymous
                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: "Cory Newby" <corykv@...>
                    To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                    Sent: Saturday, January 20, 2007 9:18 PM
                    Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Artillery Question



                    Tom,

                    I love the new Antietam web site, but those bottom-of-the-page
                    factoids are not always accurate. This is a cut-and-paste from one
                    seen today:

                    William McKinley served at Antietam as a Commissary Sergeant in the
                    23rd Ohio Infantry before becoming the nation's 24th President. A
                    monument to him at Antietam was dedicated in his memory on October 13,
                    1903, two years after he was assisinated.

                    Unfortunately, McKinley was the 25th President and "assassinated" is
                    mis-spelled.

                    Cory Newby



                    ----- Original Message ----
                    From: Tom Shay <RoteBaron@...>
                    To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Saturday, January 13, 2007 6:22:07 PM
                    Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Artillery Question













                    Here is the info that I had found on NPS Antietam website.
                    I think it had appeared as a factoid at bottom of the screen
                    (including the spelling mistake):



                    "Over 500 cannons particpated in the Battle of Antietam, firing over
                    50000 rounds of ammunition."



                    Tom Shay



                    ----- Original Message -----

                    From: bdowney@aotw. org

                    To: TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com

                    Sent: Saturday, January 13, 2007 1:42 PM

                    Subject: RE: [TalkAntietam] Artillery Question



                    Hi Mike,



                    I've not seen the 50,000 figure in print, that I can recall. I thought

                    at first that the number must be way too high, but perhaps not.
                    Using

                    Johnson/Anderson figures for guns at Sharpsburg on the 17th as 542
                    (301

                    Fed, 241 Confed), 50 000 is just under 100 rounds per gun present.



                    This still sounds like a lot, but is not out of the question. Anybody

                    got decent stats? Tom?



                    Brian



                    > -------- Original Message --------

                    > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Artillery Question

                    > From: Darmok4349@aol. com

                    > Date: Sat, January 13, 2007 12:32 am

                    > To: TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com

                    >

                    > In doing my research I had found a statistic that stated that
                    there were

                    > over 50,000 artillery rounds fired at the Battle of Antietam.

                    >

                    > I thought I saw it on the NPS site, but now I can't find it again.
                    Did I

                    > imagine this number? Does anyone know the correct answer, and were
                    it can be

                    > found?

                    >

                    > Mike

                    >

                    >

                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                    >

                    >

                    >

                    >

                    >

                    > Yahoo! Groups Links

                    >

                    >

                    >



                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]














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                    ____________________________________________________________________________________
                    Be a PS3 game guru.
                    Get your game face on with the latest PS3 news and previews at Yahoo!
                    Games.
                    http://videogames.yahoo.com/platform?platform=120121

                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Cory Newby
                    Gerry, Tom, I didn t mean to sound overly critical -- I only intended to warn caution when using those factoids as sources (relevant to the original artillery
                    Message 9 of 17 , Jan 26, 2007
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                      Gerry, Tom,

                      I didn't mean to sound overly critical -- I only intended to warn caution when using those factoids as sources (relevant to the original artillery question). Typos happen. Even in light of the typos (which will be flushed out), the new NPS site is a considerable enhancement from its previous version.

                      Best Regards,
                      Cory Newby





                      ----- Original Message ----
                      From: G E Mayers <gerry1952@...>
                      To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Monday, January 22, 2007 8:58:18 AM
                      Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Artillery Question

                      Cory;

                      Tom said he has already taken care of this........ ..

                      Yr. Obt. Svt.
                      G E "Gerry" Mayers

                      To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even on
                      one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the Union, a
                      passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from the Almighty
                      God. --Anonymous
                      ----- Original Message -----
                      From: "Cory Newby" <corykv@yahoo. com>
                      To: <TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com>
                      Sent: Saturday, January 20, 2007 9:18 PM
                      Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Artillery Question

                      Tom,

                      I love the new Antietam web site, but those bottom-of-the- page
                      factoids are not always accurate. This is a cut-and-paste from one
                      seen today:

                      William McKinley served at Antietam as a Commissary Sergeant in the
                      23rd Ohio Infantry before becoming the nation's 24th President. A
                      monument to him at Antietam was dedicated in his memory on October 13,
                      1903, two years after he was assisinated.

                      Unfortunately, McKinley was the 25th President and "assassinated" is
                      mis-spelled.

                      Cory Newby

                      ----- Original Message ----
                      From: Tom Shay <RoteBaron@comcast. net>
                      To: TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com
                      Sent: Saturday, January 13, 2007 6:22:07 PM
                      Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Artillery Question

                      Here is the info that I had found on NPS Antietam website.
                      I think it had appeared as a factoid at bottom of the screen
                      (including the spelling mistake):

                      "Over 500 cannons particpated in the Battle of Antietam, firing over
                      50000 rounds of ammunition."

                      Tom Shay

                      ----- Original Message -----

                      From: bdowney@aotw. org

                      To: TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com

                      Sent: Saturday, January 13, 2007 1:42 PM

                      Subject: RE: [TalkAntietam] Artillery Question

                      Hi Mike,

                      I've not seen the 50,000 figure in print, that I can recall. I thought

                      at first that the number must be way too high, but perhaps not.
                      Using

                      Johnson/Anderson figures for guns at Sharpsburg on the 17th as 542
                      (301

                      Fed, 241 Confed), 50 000 is just under 100 rounds per gun present.

                      This still sounds like a lot, but is not out of the question. Anybody

                      got decent stats? Tom?

                      Brian

                      > -------- Original Message --------

                      > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Artillery Question

                      > From: Darmok4349@aol. com

                      > Date: Sat, January 13, 2007 12:32 am

                      > To: TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com

                      >

                      > In doing my research I had found a statistic that stated that
                      there were

                      > over 50,000 artillery rounds fired at the Battle of Antietam.

                      >

                      > I thought I saw it on the NPS site, but now I can't find it again.
                      Did I

                      > imagine this number? Does anyone know the correct answer, and were
                      it can be

                      > found?

                      >

                      > Mike

                      >

                      >

                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                      >

                      >

                      >

                      >

                      >

                      > Yahoo! Groups Links

                      >

                      >

                      >

                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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                    • Mark A. Pflum
                      ... is? ... Well, I can t say that this figure is definitive or nay. However, if you take into consideration that every piece that went into action during the
                      Message 10 of 17 , Jan 26, 2007
                      • 0 Attachment
                        --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, Darmok4349@... wrote:
                        >
                        > Thanks,
                        >
                        > Any Idea on how to find out what the NPS source for this information
                        is?
                        >
                        > Mike
                        >


                        Well, I can't say that this figure is definitive or nay. However, if
                        you take into consideration that every piece that went into action
                        during the battle had between 128 (12Pdr.) and 200 (10Pdr. and 3")
                        rounds with it, and that most of them expended at least 80% of their
                        ammunition, you find that the figure's truth is entirely possible.

                        This also is assuming that none of the caissons were sent to the rear
                        to refill . . .

                        Mark A. Pflum
                        Ringgold !!!
                      • Thomas Clemens
                        I think Mark has it right. If someone REALLY wanted to know they could go to the National Archives and pull out the quarterly returns for the units involved,
                        Message 11 of 17 , Jan 27, 2007
                        • 0 Attachment
                          I think Mark has it right. If someone REALLY wanted to know they could go to the National Archives and pull out the quarterly returns for the units involved, see what their supply of ammo was on Sept. 1 and then compare to Jan. 1 1863 and see what re-supply they report. I doubt anybody at the park did that, I think it is a general figure. A few of the after-action reports mention the amount of ammo expended, Tompkins RI for example expended somewhere around 1,100 rounds for six guns. The 20 pdr. Parrotts expended nearly all their ammo, etc. so the figure is likely an accurate estimate.

                          Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
                          Professor of History
                          Hagerstown Community College


                          >>> "Mark A. Pflum" <ringgold_redleg@...> 01/27/07 2:12 AM >>>
                          --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, Darmok4349@... wrote:
                          >
                          > Thanks,
                          >
                          > Any Idea on how to find out what the NPS source for this information
                          is?
                          >
                          > Mike
                          >


                          Well, I can't say that this figure is definitive or nay. However, if
                          you take into consideration that every piece that went into action
                          during the battle had between 128 (12Pdr.) and 200 (10Pdr. and 3")
                          rounds with it, and that most of them expended at least 80% of their
                          ammunition, you find that the figure's truth is entirely possible.

                          This also is assuming that none of the caissons were sent to the rear
                          to refill . . .

                          Mark A. Pflum
                          Ringgold !!!
                        • G E Mayers
                          Dear Mark, Glad to hear from you after all this time! Hope you are healthy, etc. Yr. Obt. Svt. G E Gerry Mayers To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage,
                          Message 12 of 17 , Jan 27, 2007
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Dear Mark,

                            Glad to hear from you after all this time! Hope you are healthy, etc.

                            Yr. Obt. Svt.
                            G E "Gerry" Mayers

                            To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even on
                            one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the Union, a
                            passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from the Almighty
                            God. --Anonymous
                            ----- Original Message -----
                            From: "Mark A. Pflum" <ringgold_redleg@...>
                            To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                            Sent: Saturday, January 27, 2007 2:12 AM
                            Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Artillery Question


                            --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, Darmok4349@... wrote:
                            >
                            > Thanks,
                            >
                            > Any Idea on how to find out what the NPS source for this information
                            is?
                            >
                            > Mike
                            >


                            Well, I can't say that this figure is definitive or nay. However, if
                            you take into consideration that every piece that went into action
                            during the battle had between 128 (12Pdr.) and 200 (10Pdr. and 3")
                            rounds with it, and that most of them expended at least 80% of their
                            ammunition, you find that the figure's truth is entirely possible.

                            This also is assuming that none of the caissons were sent to the rear
                            to refill . . .

                            Mark A. Pflum
                            Ringgold !!!
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