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Crossing the Potomac

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  • Stephen Recker
    I went to Poolesville today trying to get my head around the early part of the campaign. The Civil War Trails marker map has Fitz-Hugh Lee crossing the Potomac
    Message 1 of 17 , Jan 13, 2007
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      I went to Poolesville today trying to get my head around the early part
      of the campaign. The Civil War Trails marker map has Fitz-Hugh Lee
      crossing the Potomac at Edward's Ferry and coming up from the south. As
      I read it, Carman, Harsh and a bunch of other folks have him crossing
      at White's Ford, all stuck behind the infantry dring the crossing. Am I
      missing something? Thanks.

      Stephen
    • bdowney@aotw.org
      FWIW I agree with your interpretation. Cavalry crossed at White s on the afternoon of the 5th behind most of Jackson s Command. They then turn south/east
      Message 2 of 17 , Jan 13, 2007
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        FWIW I agree with your interpretation. Cavalry crossed at White's on the afternoon of the 5th behind most of Jackson's Command. They then turn south/east toward Poolsville.


        > From: Stephen Recker
        > Date: Sat, January 13, 2007 9:34 pm
        > To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
        >
        > I went to Poolesville today trying to get my head around the early part
        > of the campaign. The Civil War Trails marker map has Fitz-Hugh Lee
        > crossing the Potomac at Edward's Ferry and coming up from the south. As
        > I read it, Carman, Harsh and a bunch of other folks have him crossing
        > at White's Ford, all stuck behind the infantry dring the crossing. Am I
        > missing something? Thanks.
        >
        > Stephen
        >
      • Darmok4349@aol.com
        Thanks, Any Idea on how to find out what the NPS source for this information is? Mike [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        Message 3 of 17 , Jan 14, 2007
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          Thanks,

          Any Idea on how to find out what the NPS source for this information is?

          Mike


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Stephen Recker
          Thanks! Stephen
          Message 4 of 17 , Jan 14, 2007
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            Thanks!

            Stephen

            On Saturday, January 13, 2007, at 10:31 PM, bdowney@... wrote:

            > FWIW I agree with your interpretation. Cavalry crossed at White's on
            > the afternoon of the 5th behind most of Jackson's Command. They then
            > turn south/east toward Poolsville.
            >
          • G E Mayers
            Stephen, Is it possible Fitz Lee could have divided his command to efficiently cross at both places? And, could it also be possible, the cavalry crossing where
            Message 5 of 17 , Jan 14, 2007
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              Stephen,

              Is it possible Fitz Lee could have divided his command to efficiently
              cross at both places? And, could it also be possible, the cavalry
              crossing where Carman et al. mention was to provide a mobile screening
              force in case any Federal forces try to "bushwhack" the rear of the
              ANV as it made the crossing?

              Yr. Obt. Svt.
              G E "Gerry" Mayers

              To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even on
              one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the Union, a
              passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from the Almighty
              God. --Anonymous
              ----- Original Message -----
              From: "Stephen Recker" <recker@...>
              To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Saturday, January 13, 2007 9:34 PM
              Subject: [TalkAntietam] Crossing the Potomac


              >I went to Poolesville today trying to get my head around the early
              >part
              > of the campaign. The Civil War Trails marker map has Fitz-Hugh Lee
              > crossing the Potomac at Edward's Ferry and coming up from the south.
              > As
              > I read it, Carman, Harsh and a bunch of other folks have him
              > crossing
              > at White's Ford, all stuck behind the infantry dring the crossing.
              > Am I
              > missing something? Thanks.
              >
              > Stephen
              >
              >
            • Thomas Clemens
              Steve, I am convinced that the cavalry crossed behind Jackson at White s Ford. it may be confusing for some since there is a White s Ferry too, and of course
              Message 6 of 17 , Jan 14, 2007
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                Steve,
                I am convinced that the cavalry crossed behind Jackson at White's Ford.
                it may be confusing for some since there is a White's Ferry too, and of
                course Edward's Ferry. But the crossing of cavalry at either Ferry
                would be time consuming. The ford could be crossed quickly and easily,
                although following the infantry would be a delay. But even cavalry
                could not wade the Ferries, so I think the sign is misleading. By the
                way, Wite's Ferry was called Conrad's Ferry at the time.

                Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
                Professor of History
                Hagerstown Community College


                >>> Stephen Recker <recker@...> 01/13/07 9:34 PM >>>
                I went to Poolesville today trying to get my head around the early part
                of the campaign. The Civil War Trails marker map has Fitz-Hugh Lee
                crossing the Potomac at Edward's Ferry and coming up from the south. As
                I read it, Carman, Harsh and a bunch of other folks have him crossing
                at White's Ford, all stuck behind the infantry dring the crossing. Am I
                missing something? Thanks.

                Stephen
              • Stephen Recker
                Tom, Thanks. I was wondering about the name change. I just saw an old map and it had an arrow towards Conrad s Ferry. I m thinking, sheesh, not ANOTHER
                Message 7 of 17 , Jan 14, 2007
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                  Tom,

                  Thanks. I was wondering about the name change. I just saw an old map
                  and it had an arrow towards Conrad's Ferry. I'm thinking, sheesh, not
                  ANOTHER crossing!

                  Stephen

                  On Sunday, January 14, 2007, at 04:27 PM, Thomas Clemens wrote:

                  > I am convinced that the cavalry crossed behind Jackson at White's Ford.
                  > it may be confusing for some since there is a White's Ferry too, and of
                  > course Edward's Ferry. But the crossing of cavalry at either Ferry
                  > would be time consuming. The ford could be crossed quickly and easily,
                  > although following the infantry would be a delay. But even cavalry
                  > could not wade the Ferries, so I think the sign is misleading. By the
                  > way, Wite's Ferry was called Conrad's Ferry at the time.
                  >
                • Cory Newby
                  Tom, I love the new Antietam web site, but those bottom-of-the-page factoids are not always accurate. This is a cut-and-paste from one seen today: William
                  Message 8 of 17 , Jan 20, 2007
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                    Tom,

                    I love the new Antietam web site, but those bottom-of-the-page factoids are not always accurate. This is a cut-and-paste from one seen today:

                    William McKinley served at Antietam as a Commissary Sergeant in the
                    23rd Ohio Infantry before becoming the nation’s 24th President. A
                    monument to him at Antietam was dedicated in his memory on October 13,
                    1903, two years after he was assisinated.

                    Unfortunately, McKinley was the 25th President and "assassinated" is mis-spelled.

                    Cory Newby



                    ----- Original Message ----
                    From: Tom Shay <RoteBaron@...>
                    To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Saturday, January 13, 2007 6:22:07 PM
                    Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Artillery Question













                    Here is the info that I had found on NPS Antietam website. I think it had appeared as a factoid at bottom of the screen (including the spelling mistake):



                    "Over 500 cannons particpated in the Battle of Antietam, firing over 50000 rounds of ammunition."



                    Tom Shay



                    ----- Original Message -----

                    From: bdowney@aotw. org

                    To: TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com

                    Sent: Saturday, January 13, 2007 1:42 PM

                    Subject: RE: [TalkAntietam] Artillery Question



                    Hi Mike,



                    I've not seen the 50,000 figure in print, that I can recall. I thought

                    at first that the number must be way too high, but perhaps not. Using

                    Johnson/Anderson figures for guns at Sharpsburg on the 17th as 542 (301

                    Fed, 241 Confed), 50 000 is just under 100 rounds per gun present.



                    This still sounds like a lot, but is not out of the question. Anybody

                    got decent stats? Tom?



                    Brian



                    > -------- Original Message --------

                    > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Artillery Question

                    > From: Darmok4349@aol. com

                    > Date: Sat, January 13, 2007 12:32 am

                    > To: TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com

                    >

                    > In doing my research I had found a statistic that stated that there were

                    > over 50,000 artillery rounds fired at the Battle of Antietam.

                    >

                    > I thought I saw it on the NPS site, but now I can't find it again. Did I

                    > imagine this number? Does anyone know the correct answer, and were it can be

                    > found?

                    >

                    > Mike

                    >

                    >

                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                    >

                    >

                    >

                    >

                    >

                    > Yahoo! Groups Links

                    >

                    >

                    >



                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]














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                  • Tom Shay
                    Cory, I forwarded your comments to Stephanie Gray at Antietam NPS. Thanks for pointing them out. Tom Shay ... From: Cory Newby To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                    Message 9 of 17 , Jan 21, 2007
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                      Cory,

                      I forwarded your comments to Stephanie Gray at Antietam NPS.
                      Thanks for pointing them out.

                      Tom Shay

                      ----- Original Message -----
                      From: Cory Newby
                      To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Saturday, January 20, 2007 9:18 PM
                      Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Artillery Question




                      I love the new Antietam web site, but those bottom-of-the-page factoids are not always accurate. This is a cut-and-paste from one seen today:

                      William McKinley served at Antietam as a Commissary Sergeant in the
                      23rd Ohio Infantry before becoming the nation's 24th President. A
                      monument to him at Antietam was dedicated in his memory on October 13,
                      1903, two years after he was assisinated.

                      Unfortunately, McKinley was the 25th President and "assassinated" is mis-spelled.

                      Cory Newby

                      Visit Your Group
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                    • G E Mayers
                      Cory; Tom said he has already taken care of this.......... Yr. Obt. Svt. G E Gerry Mayers To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even on
                      Message 10 of 17 , Jan 22, 2007
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                        Cory;

                        Tom said he has already taken care of this..........

                        Yr. Obt. Svt.
                        G E "Gerry" Mayers

                        To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even on
                        one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the Union, a
                        passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from the Almighty
                        God. --Anonymous
                        ----- Original Message -----
                        From: "Cory Newby" <corykv@...>
                        To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                        Sent: Saturday, January 20, 2007 9:18 PM
                        Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Artillery Question



                        Tom,

                        I love the new Antietam web site, but those bottom-of-the-page
                        factoids are not always accurate. This is a cut-and-paste from one
                        seen today:

                        William McKinley served at Antietam as a Commissary Sergeant in the
                        23rd Ohio Infantry before becoming the nation's 24th President. A
                        monument to him at Antietam was dedicated in his memory on October 13,
                        1903, two years after he was assisinated.

                        Unfortunately, McKinley was the 25th President and "assassinated" is
                        mis-spelled.

                        Cory Newby



                        ----- Original Message ----
                        From: Tom Shay <RoteBaron@...>
                        To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                        Sent: Saturday, January 13, 2007 6:22:07 PM
                        Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Artillery Question













                        Here is the info that I had found on NPS Antietam website.
                        I think it had appeared as a factoid at bottom of the screen
                        (including the spelling mistake):



                        "Over 500 cannons particpated in the Battle of Antietam, firing over
                        50000 rounds of ammunition."



                        Tom Shay



                        ----- Original Message -----

                        From: bdowney@aotw. org

                        To: TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com

                        Sent: Saturday, January 13, 2007 1:42 PM

                        Subject: RE: [TalkAntietam] Artillery Question



                        Hi Mike,



                        I've not seen the 50,000 figure in print, that I can recall. I thought

                        at first that the number must be way too high, but perhaps not.
                        Using

                        Johnson/Anderson figures for guns at Sharpsburg on the 17th as 542
                        (301

                        Fed, 241 Confed), 50 000 is just under 100 rounds per gun present.



                        This still sounds like a lot, but is not out of the question. Anybody

                        got decent stats? Tom?



                        Brian



                        > -------- Original Message --------

                        > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Artillery Question

                        > From: Darmok4349@aol. com

                        > Date: Sat, January 13, 2007 12:32 am

                        > To: TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com

                        >

                        > In doing my research I had found a statistic that stated that
                        there were

                        > over 50,000 artillery rounds fired at the Battle of Antietam.

                        >

                        > I thought I saw it on the NPS site, but now I can't find it again.
                        Did I

                        > imagine this number? Does anyone know the correct answer, and were
                        it can be

                        > found?

                        >

                        > Mike

                        >

                        >

                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                        >

                        >

                        >

                        >

                        >

                        > Yahoo! Groups Links

                        >

                        >

                        >



                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]














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                        Be a PS3 game guru.
                        Get your game face on with the latest PS3 news and previews at Yahoo!
                        Games.
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                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Cory Newby
                        Gerry, Tom, I didn t mean to sound overly critical -- I only intended to warn caution when using those factoids as sources (relevant to the original artillery
                        Message 11 of 17 , Jan 26, 2007
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                          Gerry, Tom,

                          I didn't mean to sound overly critical -- I only intended to warn caution when using those factoids as sources (relevant to the original artillery question). Typos happen. Even in light of the typos (which will be flushed out), the new NPS site is a considerable enhancement from its previous version.

                          Best Regards,
                          Cory Newby





                          ----- Original Message ----
                          From: G E Mayers <gerry1952@...>
                          To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Monday, January 22, 2007 8:58:18 AM
                          Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Artillery Question

                          Cory;

                          Tom said he has already taken care of this........ ..

                          Yr. Obt. Svt.
                          G E "Gerry" Mayers

                          To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even on
                          one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the Union, a
                          passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from the Almighty
                          God. --Anonymous
                          ----- Original Message -----
                          From: "Cory Newby" <corykv@yahoo. com>
                          To: <TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com>
                          Sent: Saturday, January 20, 2007 9:18 PM
                          Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Artillery Question

                          Tom,

                          I love the new Antietam web site, but those bottom-of-the- page
                          factoids are not always accurate. This is a cut-and-paste from one
                          seen today:

                          William McKinley served at Antietam as a Commissary Sergeant in the
                          23rd Ohio Infantry before becoming the nation's 24th President. A
                          monument to him at Antietam was dedicated in his memory on October 13,
                          1903, two years after he was assisinated.

                          Unfortunately, McKinley was the 25th President and "assassinated" is
                          mis-spelled.

                          Cory Newby

                          ----- Original Message ----
                          From: Tom Shay <RoteBaron@comcast. net>
                          To: TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com
                          Sent: Saturday, January 13, 2007 6:22:07 PM
                          Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Artillery Question

                          Here is the info that I had found on NPS Antietam website.
                          I think it had appeared as a factoid at bottom of the screen
                          (including the spelling mistake):

                          "Over 500 cannons particpated in the Battle of Antietam, firing over
                          50000 rounds of ammunition."

                          Tom Shay

                          ----- Original Message -----

                          From: bdowney@aotw. org

                          To: TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com

                          Sent: Saturday, January 13, 2007 1:42 PM

                          Subject: RE: [TalkAntietam] Artillery Question

                          Hi Mike,

                          I've not seen the 50,000 figure in print, that I can recall. I thought

                          at first that the number must be way too high, but perhaps not.
                          Using

                          Johnson/Anderson figures for guns at Sharpsburg on the 17th as 542
                          (301

                          Fed, 241 Confed), 50 000 is just under 100 rounds per gun present.

                          This still sounds like a lot, but is not out of the question. Anybody

                          got decent stats? Tom?

                          Brian

                          > -------- Original Message --------

                          > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Artillery Question

                          > From: Darmok4349@aol. com

                          > Date: Sat, January 13, 2007 12:32 am

                          > To: TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com

                          >

                          > In doing my research I had found a statistic that stated that
                          there were

                          > over 50,000 artillery rounds fired at the Battle of Antietam.

                          >

                          > I thought I saw it on the NPS site, but now I can't find it again.
                          Did I

                          > imagine this number? Does anyone know the correct answer, and were
                          it can be

                          > found?

                          >

                          > Mike

                          >

                          >

                          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                          >

                          >

                          >

                          >

                          >

                          > Yahoo! Groups Links

                          >

                          >

                          >

                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • Mark A. Pflum
                          ... is? ... Well, I can t say that this figure is definitive or nay. However, if you take into consideration that every piece that went into action during the
                          Message 12 of 17 , Jan 26, 2007
                          • 0 Attachment
                            --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, Darmok4349@... wrote:
                            >
                            > Thanks,
                            >
                            > Any Idea on how to find out what the NPS source for this information
                            is?
                            >
                            > Mike
                            >


                            Well, I can't say that this figure is definitive or nay. However, if
                            you take into consideration that every piece that went into action
                            during the battle had between 128 (12Pdr.) and 200 (10Pdr. and 3")
                            rounds with it, and that most of them expended at least 80% of their
                            ammunition, you find that the figure's truth is entirely possible.

                            This also is assuming that none of the caissons were sent to the rear
                            to refill . . .

                            Mark A. Pflum
                            Ringgold !!!
                          • Thomas Clemens
                            I think Mark has it right. If someone REALLY wanted to know they could go to the National Archives and pull out the quarterly returns for the units involved,
                            Message 13 of 17 , Jan 27, 2007
                            • 0 Attachment
                              I think Mark has it right. If someone REALLY wanted to know they could go to the National Archives and pull out the quarterly returns for the units involved, see what their supply of ammo was on Sept. 1 and then compare to Jan. 1 1863 and see what re-supply they report. I doubt anybody at the park did that, I think it is a general figure. A few of the after-action reports mention the amount of ammo expended, Tompkins RI for example expended somewhere around 1,100 rounds for six guns. The 20 pdr. Parrotts expended nearly all their ammo, etc. so the figure is likely an accurate estimate.

                              Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
                              Professor of History
                              Hagerstown Community College


                              >>> "Mark A. Pflum" <ringgold_redleg@...> 01/27/07 2:12 AM >>>
                              --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, Darmok4349@... wrote:
                              >
                              > Thanks,
                              >
                              > Any Idea on how to find out what the NPS source for this information
                              is?
                              >
                              > Mike
                              >


                              Well, I can't say that this figure is definitive or nay. However, if
                              you take into consideration that every piece that went into action
                              during the battle had between 128 (12Pdr.) and 200 (10Pdr. and 3")
                              rounds with it, and that most of them expended at least 80% of their
                              ammunition, you find that the figure's truth is entirely possible.

                              This also is assuming that none of the caissons were sent to the rear
                              to refill . . .

                              Mark A. Pflum
                              Ringgold !!!
                            • G E Mayers
                              Dear Mark, Glad to hear from you after all this time! Hope you are healthy, etc. Yr. Obt. Svt. G E Gerry Mayers To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage,
                              Message 14 of 17 , Jan 27, 2007
                              • 0 Attachment
                                Dear Mark,

                                Glad to hear from you after all this time! Hope you are healthy, etc.

                                Yr. Obt. Svt.
                                G E "Gerry" Mayers

                                To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even on
                                one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the Union, a
                                passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from the Almighty
                                God. --Anonymous
                                ----- Original Message -----
                                From: "Mark A. Pflum" <ringgold_redleg@...>
                                To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                                Sent: Saturday, January 27, 2007 2:12 AM
                                Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Artillery Question


                                --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, Darmok4349@... wrote:
                                >
                                > Thanks,
                                >
                                > Any Idea on how to find out what the NPS source for this information
                                is?
                                >
                                > Mike
                                >


                                Well, I can't say that this figure is definitive or nay. However, if
                                you take into consideration that every piece that went into action
                                during the battle had between 128 (12Pdr.) and 200 (10Pdr. and 3")
                                rounds with it, and that most of them expended at least 80% of their
                                ammunition, you find that the figure's truth is entirely possible.

                                This also is assuming that none of the caissons were sent to the rear
                                to refill . . .

                                Mark A. Pflum
                                Ringgold !!!
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