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RE: [TalkAntietam] Artillery Question

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  • bdowney@aotw.org
    Hi Mike, I ve not seen the 50,000 figure in print, that I can recall. I thought at first that the number must be way too high, but perhaps not. Using
    Message 1 of 17 , Jan 13, 2007
      Hi Mike,

      I've not seen the 50,000 figure in print, that I can recall. I thought
      at first that the number must be way too high, but perhaps not. Using
      Johnson/Anderson figures for guns at Sharpsburg on the 17th as 542 (301
      Fed, 241 Confed), 50 000 is just under 100 rounds per gun present.

      This still sounds like a lot, but is not out of the question. Anybody
      got decent stats? Tom?

      Brian



      > -------- Original Message --------
      > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Artillery Question
      > From: Darmok4349@...
      > Date: Sat, January 13, 2007 12:32 am
      > To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
      >
      > In doing my research I had found a statistic that stated that there were
      > over 50,000 artillery rounds fired at the Battle of Antietam.
      >
      > I thought I saw it on the NPS site, but now I can't find it again. Did I
      > imagine this number? Does anyone know the correct answer, and were it can be
      > found?
      >
      > Mike
      >
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > Yahoo! Groups Links
      >
      >
      >
    • Tom Shay
      Here is the info that I had found on NPS Antietam website. I think it had appeared as a factoid at bottom of the screen (including the spelling mistake): Over
      Message 2 of 17 , Jan 13, 2007
        Here is the info that I had found on NPS Antietam website. I think it had appeared as a factoid at bottom of the screen (including the spelling mistake):

        "Over 500 cannons particpated in the Battle of Antietam, firing over 50000 rounds of ammunition."

        Tom Shay

        ----- Original Message -----
        From: bdowney@...
        To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Saturday, January 13, 2007 1:42 PM
        Subject: RE: [TalkAntietam] Artillery Question


        Hi Mike,

        I've not seen the 50,000 figure in print, that I can recall. I thought
        at first that the number must be way too high, but perhaps not. Using
        Johnson/Anderson figures for guns at Sharpsburg on the 17th as 542 (301
        Fed, 241 Confed), 50 000 is just under 100 rounds per gun present.

        This still sounds like a lot, but is not out of the question. Anybody
        got decent stats? Tom?

        Brian

        > -------- Original Message --------
        > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Artillery Question
        > From: Darmok4349@...
        > Date: Sat, January 13, 2007 12:32 am
        > To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
        >
        > In doing my research I had found a statistic that stated that there were
        > over 50,000 artillery rounds fired at the Battle of Antietam.
        >
        > I thought I saw it on the NPS site, but now I can't find it again. Did I
        > imagine this number? Does anyone know the correct answer, and were it can be
        > found?
        >
        > Mike
        >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        >




        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Stephen Recker
        I went to Poolesville today trying to get my head around the early part of the campaign. The Civil War Trails marker map has Fitz-Hugh Lee crossing the Potomac
        Message 3 of 17 , Jan 13, 2007
          I went to Poolesville today trying to get my head around the early part
          of the campaign. The Civil War Trails marker map has Fitz-Hugh Lee
          crossing the Potomac at Edward's Ferry and coming up from the south. As
          I read it, Carman, Harsh and a bunch of other folks have him crossing
          at White's Ford, all stuck behind the infantry dring the crossing. Am I
          missing something? Thanks.

          Stephen
        • bdowney@aotw.org
          FWIW I agree with your interpretation. Cavalry crossed at White s on the afternoon of the 5th behind most of Jackson s Command. They then turn south/east
          Message 4 of 17 , Jan 13, 2007
            FWIW I agree with your interpretation. Cavalry crossed at White's on the afternoon of the 5th behind most of Jackson's Command. They then turn south/east toward Poolsville.


            > From: Stephen Recker
            > Date: Sat, January 13, 2007 9:34 pm
            > To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
            >
            > I went to Poolesville today trying to get my head around the early part
            > of the campaign. The Civil War Trails marker map has Fitz-Hugh Lee
            > crossing the Potomac at Edward's Ferry and coming up from the south. As
            > I read it, Carman, Harsh and a bunch of other folks have him crossing
            > at White's Ford, all stuck behind the infantry dring the crossing. Am I
            > missing something? Thanks.
            >
            > Stephen
            >
          • Darmok4349@aol.com
            Thanks, Any Idea on how to find out what the NPS source for this information is? Mike [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            Message 5 of 17 , Jan 14, 2007
              Thanks,

              Any Idea on how to find out what the NPS source for this information is?

              Mike


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Stephen Recker
              Thanks! Stephen
              Message 6 of 17 , Jan 14, 2007
                Thanks!

                Stephen

                On Saturday, January 13, 2007, at 10:31 PM, bdowney@... wrote:

                > FWIW I agree with your interpretation. Cavalry crossed at White's on
                > the afternoon of the 5th behind most of Jackson's Command. They then
                > turn south/east toward Poolsville.
                >
              • G E Mayers
                Stephen, Is it possible Fitz Lee could have divided his command to efficiently cross at both places? And, could it also be possible, the cavalry crossing where
                Message 7 of 17 , Jan 14, 2007
                  Stephen,

                  Is it possible Fitz Lee could have divided his command to efficiently
                  cross at both places? And, could it also be possible, the cavalry
                  crossing where Carman et al. mention was to provide a mobile screening
                  force in case any Federal forces try to "bushwhack" the rear of the
                  ANV as it made the crossing?

                  Yr. Obt. Svt.
                  G E "Gerry" Mayers

                  To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even on
                  one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the Union, a
                  passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from the Almighty
                  God. --Anonymous
                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: "Stephen Recker" <recker@...>
                  To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                  Sent: Saturday, January 13, 2007 9:34 PM
                  Subject: [TalkAntietam] Crossing the Potomac


                  >I went to Poolesville today trying to get my head around the early
                  >part
                  > of the campaign. The Civil War Trails marker map has Fitz-Hugh Lee
                  > crossing the Potomac at Edward's Ferry and coming up from the south.
                  > As
                  > I read it, Carman, Harsh and a bunch of other folks have him
                  > crossing
                  > at White's Ford, all stuck behind the infantry dring the crossing.
                  > Am I
                  > missing something? Thanks.
                  >
                  > Stephen
                  >
                  >
                • Thomas Clemens
                  Steve, I am convinced that the cavalry crossed behind Jackson at White s Ford. it may be confusing for some since there is a White s Ferry too, and of course
                  Message 8 of 17 , Jan 14, 2007
                    Steve,
                    I am convinced that the cavalry crossed behind Jackson at White's Ford.
                    it may be confusing for some since there is a White's Ferry too, and of
                    course Edward's Ferry. But the crossing of cavalry at either Ferry
                    would be time consuming. The ford could be crossed quickly and easily,
                    although following the infantry would be a delay. But even cavalry
                    could not wade the Ferries, so I think the sign is misleading. By the
                    way, Wite's Ferry was called Conrad's Ferry at the time.

                    Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
                    Professor of History
                    Hagerstown Community College


                    >>> Stephen Recker <recker@...> 01/13/07 9:34 PM >>>
                    I went to Poolesville today trying to get my head around the early part
                    of the campaign. The Civil War Trails marker map has Fitz-Hugh Lee
                    crossing the Potomac at Edward's Ferry and coming up from the south. As
                    I read it, Carman, Harsh and a bunch of other folks have him crossing
                    at White's Ford, all stuck behind the infantry dring the crossing. Am I
                    missing something? Thanks.

                    Stephen
                  • Stephen Recker
                    Tom, Thanks. I was wondering about the name change. I just saw an old map and it had an arrow towards Conrad s Ferry. I m thinking, sheesh, not ANOTHER
                    Message 9 of 17 , Jan 14, 2007
                      Tom,

                      Thanks. I was wondering about the name change. I just saw an old map
                      and it had an arrow towards Conrad's Ferry. I'm thinking, sheesh, not
                      ANOTHER crossing!

                      Stephen

                      On Sunday, January 14, 2007, at 04:27 PM, Thomas Clemens wrote:

                      > I am convinced that the cavalry crossed behind Jackson at White's Ford.
                      > it may be confusing for some since there is a White's Ferry too, and of
                      > course Edward's Ferry. But the crossing of cavalry at either Ferry
                      > would be time consuming. The ford could be crossed quickly and easily,
                      > although following the infantry would be a delay. But even cavalry
                      > could not wade the Ferries, so I think the sign is misleading. By the
                      > way, Wite's Ferry was called Conrad's Ferry at the time.
                      >
                    • Cory Newby
                      Tom, I love the new Antietam web site, but those bottom-of-the-page factoids are not always accurate. This is a cut-and-paste from one seen today: William
                      Message 10 of 17 , Jan 20, 2007
                        Tom,

                        I love the new Antietam web site, but those bottom-of-the-page factoids are not always accurate. This is a cut-and-paste from one seen today:

                        William McKinley served at Antietam as a Commissary Sergeant in the
                        23rd Ohio Infantry before becoming the nation’s 24th President. A
                        monument to him at Antietam was dedicated in his memory on October 13,
                        1903, two years after he was assisinated.

                        Unfortunately, McKinley was the 25th President and "assassinated" is mis-spelled.

                        Cory Newby



                        ----- Original Message ----
                        From: Tom Shay <RoteBaron@...>
                        To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                        Sent: Saturday, January 13, 2007 6:22:07 PM
                        Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Artillery Question













                        Here is the info that I had found on NPS Antietam website. I think it had appeared as a factoid at bottom of the screen (including the spelling mistake):



                        "Over 500 cannons particpated in the Battle of Antietam, firing over 50000 rounds of ammunition."



                        Tom Shay



                        ----- Original Message -----

                        From: bdowney@aotw. org

                        To: TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com

                        Sent: Saturday, January 13, 2007 1:42 PM

                        Subject: RE: [TalkAntietam] Artillery Question



                        Hi Mike,



                        I've not seen the 50,000 figure in print, that I can recall. I thought

                        at first that the number must be way too high, but perhaps not. Using

                        Johnson/Anderson figures for guns at Sharpsburg on the 17th as 542 (301

                        Fed, 241 Confed), 50 000 is just under 100 rounds per gun present.



                        This still sounds like a lot, but is not out of the question. Anybody

                        got decent stats? Tom?



                        Brian



                        > -------- Original Message --------

                        > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Artillery Question

                        > From: Darmok4349@aol. com

                        > Date: Sat, January 13, 2007 12:32 am

                        > To: TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com

                        >

                        > In doing my research I had found a statistic that stated that there were

                        > over 50,000 artillery rounds fired at the Battle of Antietam.

                        >

                        > I thought I saw it on the NPS site, but now I can't find it again. Did I

                        > imagine this number? Does anyone know the correct answer, and were it can be

                        > found?

                        >

                        > Mike

                        >

                        >

                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                        >

                        >

                        >

                        >

                        >

                        > Yahoo! Groups Links

                        >

                        >

                        >



                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]














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                      • Tom Shay
                        Cory, I forwarded your comments to Stephanie Gray at Antietam NPS. Thanks for pointing them out. Tom Shay ... From: Cory Newby To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                        Message 11 of 17 , Jan 21, 2007
                          Cory,

                          I forwarded your comments to Stephanie Gray at Antietam NPS.
                          Thanks for pointing them out.

                          Tom Shay

                          ----- Original Message -----
                          From: Cory Newby
                          To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Saturday, January 20, 2007 9:18 PM
                          Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Artillery Question




                          I love the new Antietam web site, but those bottom-of-the-page factoids are not always accurate. This is a cut-and-paste from one seen today:

                          William McKinley served at Antietam as a Commissary Sergeant in the
                          23rd Ohio Infantry before becoming the nation's 24th President. A
                          monument to him at Antietam was dedicated in his memory on October 13,
                          1903, two years after he was assisinated.

                          Unfortunately, McKinley was the 25th President and "assassinated" is mis-spelled.

                          Cory Newby

                          Visit Your Group
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                        • G E Mayers
                          Cory; Tom said he has already taken care of this.......... Yr. Obt. Svt. G E Gerry Mayers To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even on
                          Message 12 of 17 , Jan 22, 2007
                            Cory;

                            Tom said he has already taken care of this..........

                            Yr. Obt. Svt.
                            G E "Gerry" Mayers

                            To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even on
                            one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the Union, a
                            passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from the Almighty
                            God. --Anonymous
                            ----- Original Message -----
                            From: "Cory Newby" <corykv@...>
                            To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                            Sent: Saturday, January 20, 2007 9:18 PM
                            Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Artillery Question



                            Tom,

                            I love the new Antietam web site, but those bottom-of-the-page
                            factoids are not always accurate. This is a cut-and-paste from one
                            seen today:

                            William McKinley served at Antietam as a Commissary Sergeant in the
                            23rd Ohio Infantry before becoming the nation's 24th President. A
                            monument to him at Antietam was dedicated in his memory on October 13,
                            1903, two years after he was assisinated.

                            Unfortunately, McKinley was the 25th President and "assassinated" is
                            mis-spelled.

                            Cory Newby



                            ----- Original Message ----
                            From: Tom Shay <RoteBaron@...>
                            To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                            Sent: Saturday, January 13, 2007 6:22:07 PM
                            Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Artillery Question













                            Here is the info that I had found on NPS Antietam website.
                            I think it had appeared as a factoid at bottom of the screen
                            (including the spelling mistake):



                            "Over 500 cannons particpated in the Battle of Antietam, firing over
                            50000 rounds of ammunition."



                            Tom Shay



                            ----- Original Message -----

                            From: bdowney@aotw. org

                            To: TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com

                            Sent: Saturday, January 13, 2007 1:42 PM

                            Subject: RE: [TalkAntietam] Artillery Question



                            Hi Mike,



                            I've not seen the 50,000 figure in print, that I can recall. I thought

                            at first that the number must be way too high, but perhaps not.
                            Using

                            Johnson/Anderson figures for guns at Sharpsburg on the 17th as 542
                            (301

                            Fed, 241 Confed), 50 000 is just under 100 rounds per gun present.



                            This still sounds like a lot, but is not out of the question. Anybody

                            got decent stats? Tom?



                            Brian



                            > -------- Original Message --------

                            > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Artillery Question

                            > From: Darmok4349@aol. com

                            > Date: Sat, January 13, 2007 12:32 am

                            > To: TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com

                            >

                            > In doing my research I had found a statistic that stated that
                            there were

                            > over 50,000 artillery rounds fired at the Battle of Antietam.

                            >

                            > I thought I saw it on the NPS site, but now I can't find it again.
                            Did I

                            > imagine this number? Does anyone know the correct answer, and were
                            it can be

                            > found?

                            >

                            > Mike

                            >

                            >

                            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                            >

                            >

                            >

                            >

                            >

                            > Yahoo! Groups Links

                            >

                            >

                            >



                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]














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                          • Cory Newby
                            Gerry, Tom, I didn t mean to sound overly critical -- I only intended to warn caution when using those factoids as sources (relevant to the original artillery
                            Message 13 of 17 , Jan 26, 2007
                              Gerry, Tom,

                              I didn't mean to sound overly critical -- I only intended to warn caution when using those factoids as sources (relevant to the original artillery question). Typos happen. Even in light of the typos (which will be flushed out), the new NPS site is a considerable enhancement from its previous version.

                              Best Regards,
                              Cory Newby





                              ----- Original Message ----
                              From: G E Mayers <gerry1952@...>
                              To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                              Sent: Monday, January 22, 2007 8:58:18 AM
                              Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Artillery Question

                              Cory;

                              Tom said he has already taken care of this........ ..

                              Yr. Obt. Svt.
                              G E "Gerry" Mayers

                              To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even on
                              one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the Union, a
                              passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from the Almighty
                              God. --Anonymous
                              ----- Original Message -----
                              From: "Cory Newby" <corykv@yahoo. com>
                              To: <TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com>
                              Sent: Saturday, January 20, 2007 9:18 PM
                              Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Artillery Question

                              Tom,

                              I love the new Antietam web site, but those bottom-of-the- page
                              factoids are not always accurate. This is a cut-and-paste from one
                              seen today:

                              William McKinley served at Antietam as a Commissary Sergeant in the
                              23rd Ohio Infantry before becoming the nation's 24th President. A
                              monument to him at Antietam was dedicated in his memory on October 13,
                              1903, two years after he was assisinated.

                              Unfortunately, McKinley was the 25th President and "assassinated" is
                              mis-spelled.

                              Cory Newby

                              ----- Original Message ----
                              From: Tom Shay <RoteBaron@comcast. net>
                              To: TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com
                              Sent: Saturday, January 13, 2007 6:22:07 PM
                              Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Artillery Question

                              Here is the info that I had found on NPS Antietam website.
                              I think it had appeared as a factoid at bottom of the screen
                              (including the spelling mistake):

                              "Over 500 cannons particpated in the Battle of Antietam, firing over
                              50000 rounds of ammunition."

                              Tom Shay

                              ----- Original Message -----

                              From: bdowney@aotw. org

                              To: TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com

                              Sent: Saturday, January 13, 2007 1:42 PM

                              Subject: RE: [TalkAntietam] Artillery Question

                              Hi Mike,

                              I've not seen the 50,000 figure in print, that I can recall. I thought

                              at first that the number must be way too high, but perhaps not.
                              Using

                              Johnson/Anderson figures for guns at Sharpsburg on the 17th as 542
                              (301

                              Fed, 241 Confed), 50 000 is just under 100 rounds per gun present.

                              This still sounds like a lot, but is not out of the question. Anybody

                              got decent stats? Tom?

                              Brian

                              > -------- Original Message --------

                              > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Artillery Question

                              > From: Darmok4349@aol. com

                              > Date: Sat, January 13, 2007 12:32 am

                              > To: TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com

                              >

                              > In doing my research I had found a statistic that stated that
                              there were

                              > over 50,000 artillery rounds fired at the Battle of Antietam.

                              >

                              > I thought I saw it on the NPS site, but now I can't find it again.
                              Did I

                              > imagine this number? Does anyone know the correct answer, and were
                              it can be

                              > found?

                              >

                              > Mike

                              >

                              >

                              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                              >

                              >

                              >

                              >

                              >

                              > Yahoo! Groups Links

                              >

                              >

                              >

                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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                            • Mark A. Pflum
                              ... is? ... Well, I can t say that this figure is definitive or nay. However, if you take into consideration that every piece that went into action during the
                              Message 14 of 17 , Jan 26, 2007
                                --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, Darmok4349@... wrote:
                                >
                                > Thanks,
                                >
                                > Any Idea on how to find out what the NPS source for this information
                                is?
                                >
                                > Mike
                                >


                                Well, I can't say that this figure is definitive or nay. However, if
                                you take into consideration that every piece that went into action
                                during the battle had between 128 (12Pdr.) and 200 (10Pdr. and 3")
                                rounds with it, and that most of them expended at least 80% of their
                                ammunition, you find that the figure's truth is entirely possible.

                                This also is assuming that none of the caissons were sent to the rear
                                to refill . . .

                                Mark A. Pflum
                                Ringgold !!!
                              • Thomas Clemens
                                I think Mark has it right. If someone REALLY wanted to know they could go to the National Archives and pull out the quarterly returns for the units involved,
                                Message 15 of 17 , Jan 27, 2007
                                  I think Mark has it right. If someone REALLY wanted to know they could go to the National Archives and pull out the quarterly returns for the units involved, see what their supply of ammo was on Sept. 1 and then compare to Jan. 1 1863 and see what re-supply they report. I doubt anybody at the park did that, I think it is a general figure. A few of the after-action reports mention the amount of ammo expended, Tompkins RI for example expended somewhere around 1,100 rounds for six guns. The 20 pdr. Parrotts expended nearly all their ammo, etc. so the figure is likely an accurate estimate.

                                  Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
                                  Professor of History
                                  Hagerstown Community College


                                  >>> "Mark A. Pflum" <ringgold_redleg@...> 01/27/07 2:12 AM >>>
                                  --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, Darmok4349@... wrote:
                                  >
                                  > Thanks,
                                  >
                                  > Any Idea on how to find out what the NPS source for this information
                                  is?
                                  >
                                  > Mike
                                  >


                                  Well, I can't say that this figure is definitive or nay. However, if
                                  you take into consideration that every piece that went into action
                                  during the battle had between 128 (12Pdr.) and 200 (10Pdr. and 3")
                                  rounds with it, and that most of them expended at least 80% of their
                                  ammunition, you find that the figure's truth is entirely possible.

                                  This also is assuming that none of the caissons were sent to the rear
                                  to refill . . .

                                  Mark A. Pflum
                                  Ringgold !!!
                                • G E Mayers
                                  Dear Mark, Glad to hear from you after all this time! Hope you are healthy, etc. Yr. Obt. Svt. G E Gerry Mayers To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage,
                                  Message 16 of 17 , Jan 27, 2007
                                    Dear Mark,

                                    Glad to hear from you after all this time! Hope you are healthy, etc.

                                    Yr. Obt. Svt.
                                    G E "Gerry" Mayers

                                    To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even on
                                    one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the Union, a
                                    passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from the Almighty
                                    God. --Anonymous
                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                    From: "Mark A. Pflum" <ringgold_redleg@...>
                                    To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                                    Sent: Saturday, January 27, 2007 2:12 AM
                                    Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Artillery Question


                                    --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, Darmok4349@... wrote:
                                    >
                                    > Thanks,
                                    >
                                    > Any Idea on how to find out what the NPS source for this information
                                    is?
                                    >
                                    > Mike
                                    >


                                    Well, I can't say that this figure is definitive or nay. However, if
                                    you take into consideration that every piece that went into action
                                    during the battle had between 128 (12Pdr.) and 200 (10Pdr. and 3")
                                    rounds with it, and that most of them expended at least 80% of their
                                    ammunition, you find that the figure's truth is entirely possible.

                                    This also is assuming that none of the caissons were sent to the rear
                                    to refill . . .

                                    Mark A. Pflum
                                    Ringgold !!!
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