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Artillery Question

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  • Darmok4349@aol.com
    In doing my research I had found a statistic that stated that there were over 50,000 artillery rounds fired at the Battle of Antietam. I thought I saw it on
    Message 1 of 17 , Jan 12, 2007
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      In doing my research I had found a statistic that stated that there were
      over 50,000 artillery rounds fired at the Battle of Antietam.

      I thought I saw it on the NPS site, but now I can't find it again. Did I
      imagine this number? Does anyone know the correct answer, and were it can be
      found?

      Mike


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • bdowney@aotw.org
      Hi Mike, I ve not seen the 50,000 figure in print, that I can recall. I thought at first that the number must be way too high, but perhaps not. Using
      Message 2 of 17 , Jan 13, 2007
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        Hi Mike,

        I've not seen the 50,000 figure in print, that I can recall. I thought
        at first that the number must be way too high, but perhaps not. Using
        Johnson/Anderson figures for guns at Sharpsburg on the 17th as 542 (301
        Fed, 241 Confed), 50 000 is just under 100 rounds per gun present.

        This still sounds like a lot, but is not out of the question. Anybody
        got decent stats? Tom?

        Brian



        > -------- Original Message --------
        > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Artillery Question
        > From: Darmok4349@...
        > Date: Sat, January 13, 2007 12:32 am
        > To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
        >
        > In doing my research I had found a statistic that stated that there were
        > over 50,000 artillery rounds fired at the Battle of Antietam.
        >
        > I thought I saw it on the NPS site, but now I can't find it again. Did I
        > imagine this number? Does anyone know the correct answer, and were it can be
        > found?
        >
        > Mike
        >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        >
      • Tom Shay
        Here is the info that I had found on NPS Antietam website. I think it had appeared as a factoid at bottom of the screen (including the spelling mistake): Over
        Message 3 of 17 , Jan 13, 2007
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          Here is the info that I had found on NPS Antietam website. I think it had appeared as a factoid at bottom of the screen (including the spelling mistake):

          "Over 500 cannons particpated in the Battle of Antietam, firing over 50000 rounds of ammunition."

          Tom Shay

          ----- Original Message -----
          From: bdowney@...
          To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Saturday, January 13, 2007 1:42 PM
          Subject: RE: [TalkAntietam] Artillery Question


          Hi Mike,

          I've not seen the 50,000 figure in print, that I can recall. I thought
          at first that the number must be way too high, but perhaps not. Using
          Johnson/Anderson figures for guns at Sharpsburg on the 17th as 542 (301
          Fed, 241 Confed), 50 000 is just under 100 rounds per gun present.

          This still sounds like a lot, but is not out of the question. Anybody
          got decent stats? Tom?

          Brian

          > -------- Original Message --------
          > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Artillery Question
          > From: Darmok4349@...
          > Date: Sat, January 13, 2007 12:32 am
          > To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
          >
          > In doing my research I had found a statistic that stated that there were
          > over 50,000 artillery rounds fired at the Battle of Antietam.
          >
          > I thought I saw it on the NPS site, but now I can't find it again. Did I
          > imagine this number? Does anyone know the correct answer, and were it can be
          > found?
          >
          > Mike
          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >




          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Stephen Recker
          I went to Poolesville today trying to get my head around the early part of the campaign. The Civil War Trails marker map has Fitz-Hugh Lee crossing the Potomac
          Message 4 of 17 , Jan 13, 2007
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            I went to Poolesville today trying to get my head around the early part
            of the campaign. The Civil War Trails marker map has Fitz-Hugh Lee
            crossing the Potomac at Edward's Ferry and coming up from the south. As
            I read it, Carman, Harsh and a bunch of other folks have him crossing
            at White's Ford, all stuck behind the infantry dring the crossing. Am I
            missing something? Thanks.

            Stephen
          • bdowney@aotw.org
            FWIW I agree with your interpretation. Cavalry crossed at White s on the afternoon of the 5th behind most of Jackson s Command. They then turn south/east
            Message 5 of 17 , Jan 13, 2007
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              FWIW I agree with your interpretation. Cavalry crossed at White's on the afternoon of the 5th behind most of Jackson's Command. They then turn south/east toward Poolsville.


              > From: Stephen Recker
              > Date: Sat, January 13, 2007 9:34 pm
              > To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
              >
              > I went to Poolesville today trying to get my head around the early part
              > of the campaign. The Civil War Trails marker map has Fitz-Hugh Lee
              > crossing the Potomac at Edward's Ferry and coming up from the south. As
              > I read it, Carman, Harsh and a bunch of other folks have him crossing
              > at White's Ford, all stuck behind the infantry dring the crossing. Am I
              > missing something? Thanks.
              >
              > Stephen
              >
            • Darmok4349@aol.com
              Thanks, Any Idea on how to find out what the NPS source for this information is? Mike [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              Message 6 of 17 , Jan 14, 2007
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                Thanks,

                Any Idea on how to find out what the NPS source for this information is?

                Mike


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Stephen Recker
                Thanks! Stephen
                Message 7 of 17 , Jan 14, 2007
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                  Thanks!

                  Stephen

                  On Saturday, January 13, 2007, at 10:31 PM, bdowney@... wrote:

                  > FWIW I agree with your interpretation. Cavalry crossed at White's on
                  > the afternoon of the 5th behind most of Jackson's Command. They then
                  > turn south/east toward Poolsville.
                  >
                • G E Mayers
                  Stephen, Is it possible Fitz Lee could have divided his command to efficiently cross at both places? And, could it also be possible, the cavalry crossing where
                  Message 8 of 17 , Jan 14, 2007
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                    Stephen,

                    Is it possible Fitz Lee could have divided his command to efficiently
                    cross at both places? And, could it also be possible, the cavalry
                    crossing where Carman et al. mention was to provide a mobile screening
                    force in case any Federal forces try to "bushwhack" the rear of the
                    ANV as it made the crossing?

                    Yr. Obt. Svt.
                    G E "Gerry" Mayers

                    To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even on
                    one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the Union, a
                    passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from the Almighty
                    God. --Anonymous
                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: "Stephen Recker" <recker@...>
                    To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                    Sent: Saturday, January 13, 2007 9:34 PM
                    Subject: [TalkAntietam] Crossing the Potomac


                    >I went to Poolesville today trying to get my head around the early
                    >part
                    > of the campaign. The Civil War Trails marker map has Fitz-Hugh Lee
                    > crossing the Potomac at Edward's Ferry and coming up from the south.
                    > As
                    > I read it, Carman, Harsh and a bunch of other folks have him
                    > crossing
                    > at White's Ford, all stuck behind the infantry dring the crossing.
                    > Am I
                    > missing something? Thanks.
                    >
                    > Stephen
                    >
                    >
                  • Thomas Clemens
                    Steve, I am convinced that the cavalry crossed behind Jackson at White s Ford. it may be confusing for some since there is a White s Ferry too, and of course
                    Message 9 of 17 , Jan 14, 2007
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                      Steve,
                      I am convinced that the cavalry crossed behind Jackson at White's Ford.
                      it may be confusing for some since there is a White's Ferry too, and of
                      course Edward's Ferry. But the crossing of cavalry at either Ferry
                      would be time consuming. The ford could be crossed quickly and easily,
                      although following the infantry would be a delay. But even cavalry
                      could not wade the Ferries, so I think the sign is misleading. By the
                      way, Wite's Ferry was called Conrad's Ferry at the time.

                      Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
                      Professor of History
                      Hagerstown Community College


                      >>> Stephen Recker <recker@...> 01/13/07 9:34 PM >>>
                      I went to Poolesville today trying to get my head around the early part
                      of the campaign. The Civil War Trails marker map has Fitz-Hugh Lee
                      crossing the Potomac at Edward's Ferry and coming up from the south. As
                      I read it, Carman, Harsh and a bunch of other folks have him crossing
                      at White's Ford, all stuck behind the infantry dring the crossing. Am I
                      missing something? Thanks.

                      Stephen
                    • Stephen Recker
                      Tom, Thanks. I was wondering about the name change. I just saw an old map and it had an arrow towards Conrad s Ferry. I m thinking, sheesh, not ANOTHER
                      Message 10 of 17 , Jan 14, 2007
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                        Tom,

                        Thanks. I was wondering about the name change. I just saw an old map
                        and it had an arrow towards Conrad's Ferry. I'm thinking, sheesh, not
                        ANOTHER crossing!

                        Stephen

                        On Sunday, January 14, 2007, at 04:27 PM, Thomas Clemens wrote:

                        > I am convinced that the cavalry crossed behind Jackson at White's Ford.
                        > it may be confusing for some since there is a White's Ferry too, and of
                        > course Edward's Ferry. But the crossing of cavalry at either Ferry
                        > would be time consuming. The ford could be crossed quickly and easily,
                        > although following the infantry would be a delay. But even cavalry
                        > could not wade the Ferries, so I think the sign is misleading. By the
                        > way, Wite's Ferry was called Conrad's Ferry at the time.
                        >
                      • Cory Newby
                        Tom, I love the new Antietam web site, but those bottom-of-the-page factoids are not always accurate. This is a cut-and-paste from one seen today: William
                        Message 11 of 17 , Jan 20, 2007
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                          Tom,

                          I love the new Antietam web site, but those bottom-of-the-page factoids are not always accurate. This is a cut-and-paste from one seen today:

                          William McKinley served at Antietam as a Commissary Sergeant in the
                          23rd Ohio Infantry before becoming the nation’s 24th President. A
                          monument to him at Antietam was dedicated in his memory on October 13,
                          1903, two years after he was assisinated.

                          Unfortunately, McKinley was the 25th President and "assassinated" is mis-spelled.

                          Cory Newby



                          ----- Original Message ----
                          From: Tom Shay <RoteBaron@...>
                          To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Saturday, January 13, 2007 6:22:07 PM
                          Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Artillery Question













                          Here is the info that I had found on NPS Antietam website. I think it had appeared as a factoid at bottom of the screen (including the spelling mistake):



                          "Over 500 cannons particpated in the Battle of Antietam, firing over 50000 rounds of ammunition."



                          Tom Shay



                          ----- Original Message -----

                          From: bdowney@aotw. org

                          To: TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com

                          Sent: Saturday, January 13, 2007 1:42 PM

                          Subject: RE: [TalkAntietam] Artillery Question



                          Hi Mike,



                          I've not seen the 50,000 figure in print, that I can recall. I thought

                          at first that the number must be way too high, but perhaps not. Using

                          Johnson/Anderson figures for guns at Sharpsburg on the 17th as 542 (301

                          Fed, 241 Confed), 50 000 is just under 100 rounds per gun present.



                          This still sounds like a lot, but is not out of the question. Anybody

                          got decent stats? Tom?



                          Brian



                          > -------- Original Message --------

                          > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Artillery Question

                          > From: Darmok4349@aol. com

                          > Date: Sat, January 13, 2007 12:32 am

                          > To: TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com

                          >

                          > In doing my research I had found a statistic that stated that there were

                          > over 50,000 artillery rounds fired at the Battle of Antietam.

                          >

                          > I thought I saw it on the NPS site, but now I can't find it again. Did I

                          > imagine this number? Does anyone know the correct answer, and were it can be

                          > found?

                          >

                          > Mike

                          >

                          >

                          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                          >

                          >

                          >

                          >

                          >

                          > Yahoo! Groups Links

                          >

                          >

                          >



                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]














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                        • Tom Shay
                          Cory, I forwarded your comments to Stephanie Gray at Antietam NPS. Thanks for pointing them out. Tom Shay ... From: Cory Newby To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                          Message 12 of 17 , Jan 21, 2007
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Cory,

                            I forwarded your comments to Stephanie Gray at Antietam NPS.
                            Thanks for pointing them out.

                            Tom Shay

                            ----- Original Message -----
                            From: Cory Newby
                            To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                            Sent: Saturday, January 20, 2007 9:18 PM
                            Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Artillery Question




                            I love the new Antietam web site, but those bottom-of-the-page factoids are not always accurate. This is a cut-and-paste from one seen today:

                            William McKinley served at Antietam as a Commissary Sergeant in the
                            23rd Ohio Infantry before becoming the nation's 24th President. A
                            monument to him at Antietam was dedicated in his memory on October 13,
                            1903, two years after he was assisinated.

                            Unfortunately, McKinley was the 25th President and "assassinated" is mis-spelled.

                            Cory Newby

                            Visit Your Group
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                          • G E Mayers
                            Cory; Tom said he has already taken care of this.......... Yr. Obt. Svt. G E Gerry Mayers To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even on
                            Message 13 of 17 , Jan 22, 2007
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                              Cory;

                              Tom said he has already taken care of this..........

                              Yr. Obt. Svt.
                              G E "Gerry" Mayers

                              To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even on
                              one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the Union, a
                              passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from the Almighty
                              God. --Anonymous
                              ----- Original Message -----
                              From: "Cory Newby" <corykv@...>
                              To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                              Sent: Saturday, January 20, 2007 9:18 PM
                              Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Artillery Question



                              Tom,

                              I love the new Antietam web site, but those bottom-of-the-page
                              factoids are not always accurate. This is a cut-and-paste from one
                              seen today:

                              William McKinley served at Antietam as a Commissary Sergeant in the
                              23rd Ohio Infantry before becoming the nation's 24th President. A
                              monument to him at Antietam was dedicated in his memory on October 13,
                              1903, two years after he was assisinated.

                              Unfortunately, McKinley was the 25th President and "assassinated" is
                              mis-spelled.

                              Cory Newby



                              ----- Original Message ----
                              From: Tom Shay <RoteBaron@...>
                              To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                              Sent: Saturday, January 13, 2007 6:22:07 PM
                              Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Artillery Question













                              Here is the info that I had found on NPS Antietam website.
                              I think it had appeared as a factoid at bottom of the screen
                              (including the spelling mistake):



                              "Over 500 cannons particpated in the Battle of Antietam, firing over
                              50000 rounds of ammunition."



                              Tom Shay



                              ----- Original Message -----

                              From: bdowney@aotw. org

                              To: TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com

                              Sent: Saturday, January 13, 2007 1:42 PM

                              Subject: RE: [TalkAntietam] Artillery Question



                              Hi Mike,



                              I've not seen the 50,000 figure in print, that I can recall. I thought

                              at first that the number must be way too high, but perhaps not.
                              Using

                              Johnson/Anderson figures for guns at Sharpsburg on the 17th as 542
                              (301

                              Fed, 241 Confed), 50 000 is just under 100 rounds per gun present.



                              This still sounds like a lot, but is not out of the question. Anybody

                              got decent stats? Tom?



                              Brian



                              > -------- Original Message --------

                              > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Artillery Question

                              > From: Darmok4349@aol. com

                              > Date: Sat, January 13, 2007 12:32 am

                              > To: TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com

                              >

                              > In doing my research I had found a statistic that stated that
                              there were

                              > over 50,000 artillery rounds fired at the Battle of Antietam.

                              >

                              > I thought I saw it on the NPS site, but now I can't find it again.
                              Did I

                              > imagine this number? Does anyone know the correct answer, and were
                              it can be

                              > found?

                              >

                              > Mike

                              >

                              >

                              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                              >

                              >

                              >

                              >

                              >

                              > Yahoo! Groups Links

                              >

                              >

                              >



                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]














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                            • Cory Newby
                              Gerry, Tom, I didn t mean to sound overly critical -- I only intended to warn caution when using those factoids as sources (relevant to the original artillery
                              Message 14 of 17 , Jan 26, 2007
                              • 0 Attachment
                                Gerry, Tom,

                                I didn't mean to sound overly critical -- I only intended to warn caution when using those factoids as sources (relevant to the original artillery question). Typos happen. Even in light of the typos (which will be flushed out), the new NPS site is a considerable enhancement from its previous version.

                                Best Regards,
                                Cory Newby





                                ----- Original Message ----
                                From: G E Mayers <gerry1952@...>
                                To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                                Sent: Monday, January 22, 2007 8:58:18 AM
                                Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Artillery Question

                                Cory;

                                Tom said he has already taken care of this........ ..

                                Yr. Obt. Svt.
                                G E "Gerry" Mayers

                                To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even on
                                one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the Union, a
                                passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from the Almighty
                                God. --Anonymous
                                ----- Original Message -----
                                From: "Cory Newby" <corykv@yahoo. com>
                                To: <TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com>
                                Sent: Saturday, January 20, 2007 9:18 PM
                                Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Artillery Question

                                Tom,

                                I love the new Antietam web site, but those bottom-of-the- page
                                factoids are not always accurate. This is a cut-and-paste from one
                                seen today:

                                William McKinley served at Antietam as a Commissary Sergeant in the
                                23rd Ohio Infantry before becoming the nation's 24th President. A
                                monument to him at Antietam was dedicated in his memory on October 13,
                                1903, two years after he was assisinated.

                                Unfortunately, McKinley was the 25th President and "assassinated" is
                                mis-spelled.

                                Cory Newby

                                ----- Original Message ----
                                From: Tom Shay <RoteBaron@comcast. net>
                                To: TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com
                                Sent: Saturday, January 13, 2007 6:22:07 PM
                                Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Artillery Question

                                Here is the info that I had found on NPS Antietam website.
                                I think it had appeared as a factoid at bottom of the screen
                                (including the spelling mistake):

                                "Over 500 cannons particpated in the Battle of Antietam, firing over
                                50000 rounds of ammunition."

                                Tom Shay

                                ----- Original Message -----

                                From: bdowney@aotw. org

                                To: TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com

                                Sent: Saturday, January 13, 2007 1:42 PM

                                Subject: RE: [TalkAntietam] Artillery Question

                                Hi Mike,

                                I've not seen the 50,000 figure in print, that I can recall. I thought

                                at first that the number must be way too high, but perhaps not.
                                Using

                                Johnson/Anderson figures for guns at Sharpsburg on the 17th as 542
                                (301

                                Fed, 241 Confed), 50 000 is just under 100 rounds per gun present.

                                This still sounds like a lot, but is not out of the question. Anybody

                                got decent stats? Tom?

                                Brian

                                > -------- Original Message --------

                                > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Artillery Question

                                > From: Darmok4349@aol. com

                                > Date: Sat, January 13, 2007 12:32 am

                                > To: TalkAntietam@ yahoogroups. com

                                >

                                > In doing my research I had found a statistic that stated that
                                there were

                                > over 50,000 artillery rounds fired at the Battle of Antietam.

                                >

                                > I thought I saw it on the NPS site, but now I can't find it again.
                                Did I

                                > imagine this number? Does anyone know the correct answer, and were
                                it can be

                                > found?

                                >

                                > Mike

                                >

                                >

                                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                                >

                                >

                                >

                                >

                                >

                                > Yahoo! Groups Links

                                >

                                >

                                >

                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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                              • Mark A. Pflum
                                ... is? ... Well, I can t say that this figure is definitive or nay. However, if you take into consideration that every piece that went into action during the
                                Message 15 of 17 , Jan 26, 2007
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, Darmok4349@... wrote:
                                  >
                                  > Thanks,
                                  >
                                  > Any Idea on how to find out what the NPS source for this information
                                  is?
                                  >
                                  > Mike
                                  >


                                  Well, I can't say that this figure is definitive or nay. However, if
                                  you take into consideration that every piece that went into action
                                  during the battle had between 128 (12Pdr.) and 200 (10Pdr. and 3")
                                  rounds with it, and that most of them expended at least 80% of their
                                  ammunition, you find that the figure's truth is entirely possible.

                                  This also is assuming that none of the caissons were sent to the rear
                                  to refill . . .

                                  Mark A. Pflum
                                  Ringgold !!!
                                • Thomas Clemens
                                  I think Mark has it right. If someone REALLY wanted to know they could go to the National Archives and pull out the quarterly returns for the units involved,
                                  Message 16 of 17 , Jan 27, 2007
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    I think Mark has it right. If someone REALLY wanted to know they could go to the National Archives and pull out the quarterly returns for the units involved, see what their supply of ammo was on Sept. 1 and then compare to Jan. 1 1863 and see what re-supply they report. I doubt anybody at the park did that, I think it is a general figure. A few of the after-action reports mention the amount of ammo expended, Tompkins RI for example expended somewhere around 1,100 rounds for six guns. The 20 pdr. Parrotts expended nearly all their ammo, etc. so the figure is likely an accurate estimate.

                                    Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
                                    Professor of History
                                    Hagerstown Community College


                                    >>> "Mark A. Pflum" <ringgold_redleg@...> 01/27/07 2:12 AM >>>
                                    --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, Darmok4349@... wrote:
                                    >
                                    > Thanks,
                                    >
                                    > Any Idea on how to find out what the NPS source for this information
                                    is?
                                    >
                                    > Mike
                                    >


                                    Well, I can't say that this figure is definitive or nay. However, if
                                    you take into consideration that every piece that went into action
                                    during the battle had between 128 (12Pdr.) and 200 (10Pdr. and 3")
                                    rounds with it, and that most of them expended at least 80% of their
                                    ammunition, you find that the figure's truth is entirely possible.

                                    This also is assuming that none of the caissons were sent to the rear
                                    to refill . . .

                                    Mark A. Pflum
                                    Ringgold !!!
                                  • G E Mayers
                                    Dear Mark, Glad to hear from you after all this time! Hope you are healthy, etc. Yr. Obt. Svt. G E Gerry Mayers To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage,
                                    Message 17 of 17 , Jan 27, 2007
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      Dear Mark,

                                      Glad to hear from you after all this time! Hope you are healthy, etc.

                                      Yr. Obt. Svt.
                                      G E "Gerry" Mayers

                                      To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even on
                                      one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the Union, a
                                      passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from the Almighty
                                      God. --Anonymous
                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                      From: "Mark A. Pflum" <ringgold_redleg@...>
                                      To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                                      Sent: Saturday, January 27, 2007 2:12 AM
                                      Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Artillery Question


                                      --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, Darmok4349@... wrote:
                                      >
                                      > Thanks,
                                      >
                                      > Any Idea on how to find out what the NPS source for this information
                                      is?
                                      >
                                      > Mike
                                      >


                                      Well, I can't say that this figure is definitive or nay. However, if
                                      you take into consideration that every piece that went into action
                                      during the battle had between 128 (12Pdr.) and 200 (10Pdr. and 3")
                                      rounds with it, and that most of them expended at least 80% of their
                                      ammunition, you find that the figure's truth is entirely possible.

                                      This also is assuming that none of the caissons were sent to the rear
                                      to refill . . .

                                      Mark A. Pflum
                                      Ringgold !!!
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