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Re: re Battlefield off beaten path sites and question

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  • dickeyr46
    Gerry, The suggestion of the area around the Locher cabin and the Hauser Ridge are excellent. Do not miss the NW portion of the West Woods where the 1st Minn
    Message 1 of 16 , May 19 5:03 AM
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      Gerry,

      The suggestion of the area around the Locher cabin and the Hauser
      Ridge are excellent. Do not miss the NW portion of the West Woods
      where the 1st Minn was greeted with Pelham's artillery as they emeged
      from the woods. This NW corner tree line appears to be fairly true to
      the Carmen-Cope maps.

      Here's a suggestion for another easy to get to spot... it is the
      northeast corner of the Cornfield. If you get the NPS broucher "The
      Cornfield Trail," this location is marked as stop 4. It is easily
      reached by walking from Auto Tour Stop 4, north through the Cornfield
      using the trail, and then east along the northern Cornfield fence to
      where the Cornfield meets the East Woods. This spot trully is a
      location of "serenity and sacrifice." This spot is peaceful, with no
      vehicle traffic and little foot traffic. Yet, this corner of the
      Cornfield equaled or exceeded the violence of the western side where
      Gibbons fought. From the initial passing of Duryea's brigade at 6 am,
      to the attacks by Hay's Tigers, Hartsuff's men, and Law's Brigade, the
      stand by the Penn. Reserves, Ripley and Gordon facing each other, and
      finally Tyndale rolling up Colquitt's flank, this corner overlooked 3
      hours of back-and-forth sacrifice. This location is also neat in that
      most of the states had units in action in this vicinity. This corner
      was described as "...dead men literally piled upon and across each
      other" by one of Tyndale's regimental commanders. Of note is what you
      can't see from here... you can't see Miller's farm house, nor can you
      see the West Woods. This is a fantastic spot to appreciate how
      restrictive the terrain could be.

      Well, that's a suggestion as a way to appreciate the Cornfield from
      other than the "standard" read from Auto Stop 4.

      Ron Dickey

      --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, "G E Mayers" <gerry1952@...> wrote:
      >
      > Gang,
      >
      > In October (October 15th) I will be hosting a tour at Sharpsburg
      > (Antietam) battlefield for the Civil War Discussion Group Fall 2006
      > Muster. I realize some members of this board are also members of the
      > other board.... but this is not a cross posting.
      >
      > I write with three main requests:
      > 1. In addition to the remaining portion of the West Woods between the
      > Philadelphia Brigade park and the SR 64 bypass, what other off the
      > beaten path areas in the park are there in the area of the Morning
      > Phases of the battle that can be visited with needing special
      > permission to do so?
      >
      >
    • G E Mayers
      Dear Ron, Thank you for the excellent suggestion! I will make contact at ANBP with one of the rangers to arrange for a copy of that brochure to be sent. Is
      Message 2 of 16 , May 19 5:37 AM
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        Dear Ron,

        Thank you for the excellent suggestion! I will make contact at ANBP
        with one of the rangers to arrange for a copy of that brochure to be
        sent.

        Is there also a brochure of the NW corner of the West Woods where
        Pelham had his artillery?

        Yr. Obt. Svt.
        G E "Gerry" Mayers

        To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even on
        one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the Union, a
        passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from the Almighty
        God. --Anonymous
        ----- Original Message -----
        From: "dickeyr46" <dickeyr46@...>
        To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Friday, May 19, 2006 8:03 AM
        Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: re Battlefield off beaten path sites and
        question


        > Gerry,
        >
        > The suggestion of the area around the Locher cabin and the Hauser
        > Ridge are excellent. Do not miss the NW portion of the West Woods
        > where the 1st Minn was greeted with Pelham's artillery as they
        > emeged
        > from the woods. This NW corner tree line appears to be fairly true
        > to
        > the Carmen-Cope maps.
        >
        > Here's a suggestion for another easy to get to spot... it is the
        > northeast corner of the Cornfield. If you get the NPS broucher "The
        > Cornfield Trail," this location is marked as stop 4. It is easily
        > reached by walking from Auto Tour Stop 4, north through the
        > Cornfield
        > using the trail, and then east along the northern Cornfield fence to
        > where the Cornfield meets the East Woods. This spot trully is a
        > location of "serenity and sacrifice." This spot is peaceful, with no
        > vehicle traffic and little foot traffic. Yet, this corner of the
        > Cornfield equaled or exceeded the violence of the western side where
        > Gibbons fought. From the initial passing of Duryea's brigade at 6
        > am,
        > to the attacks by Hay's Tigers, Hartsuff's men, and Law's Brigade,
        > the
        > stand by the Penn. Reserves, Ripley and Gordon facing each other,
        > and
        > finally Tyndale rolling up Colquitt's flank, this corner overlooked
        > 3
        > hours of back-and-forth sacrifice. This location is also neat in
        > that
        > most of the states had units in action in this vicinity. This corner
        > was described as "...dead men literally piled upon and across each
        > other" by one of Tyndale's regimental commanders. Of note is what
        > you
        > can't see from here... you can't see Miller's farm house, nor can
        > you
        > see the West Woods. This is a fantastic spot to appreciate how
        > restrictive the terrain could be.
        >
        > Well, that's a suggestion as a way to appreciate the Cornfield from
        > other than the "standard" read from Auto Stop 4.
        >
        > Ron Dickey
        >
        > --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, "G E Mayers" <gerry1952@...>
        > wrote:
        >>
        >> Gang,
        >>
        >> In October (October 15th) I will be hosting a tour at Sharpsburg
        >> (Antietam) battlefield for the Civil War Discussion Group Fall 2006
        >> Muster. I realize some members of this board are also members of
        >> the
        >> other board.... but this is not a cross posting.
        >>
        >> I write with three main requests:
        >> 1. In addition to the remaining portion of the West Woods between
        >> the
        >> Philadelphia Brigade park and the SR 64 bypass, what other off the
        >> beaten path areas in the park are there in the area of the Morning
        >> Phases of the battle that can be visited with needing special
        >> permission to do so?
        >>
        >>
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > SPONSORED LINKS Civil war history Civil war battles Civil war
        >
        >
        > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
        > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
        >
        > a.. Visit your group "TalkAntietam" on the web.
        >
        > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
        > TalkAntietam-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
        >
        > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
        > Service.
        >
        >
        > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
        >
        >
      • dickeyr46
        Gerry, I ve never seen a brochure that covers the terrain west of Hwy 65. Perhaps some of the other members might know of one. Map 5 of the Battle Maps Brian
        Message 3 of 16 , May 19 8:19 AM
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          Gerry,

          I've never seen a brochure that covers the terrain west of Hwy 65.
          Perhaps some of the other members might know of one. Map 5 of the
          Battle Maps Brian Downey has posted on AoTW,
          http://aotw.org/maps.php?map_number=5, is excellent. It clearly shows
          the 1st Minn and the 13th Vir, which was posted from Early's Brigade
          as support for the horse artillery. Another good source of what the
          terrain is like is the map Todd Livsey did,
          http://www.westwoodgalleries.com/antietam/maps/viewmaps.html. He has
          overlaid the 1862 vegetation and roads with white lines depicting the
          modern roads. Todd has also marked the park boundary in purple. Both
          of these maps help.

          If I were drawing a map, this is what I'd do. From the Dunker Church,
          walk west out Confederate Ave. past the 34th NY and 125th PA
          monuments. Carefully cross Hwy 65 bypass and continue west along the
          dirt park road about 200 meters. This should put you at a small tree
          line running N and S. Head N along the line. It is a bit rough... rock
          out croppings. Hauser Ridge rises to your left and there is open
          "pasture" to your right. You'll see the Locher barn first and then the
          cabin to the right. They are marked as A. Poffenberger on most maps.
          The barn is visible from Hwy 65; the cabin is not because of
          vegetation. Continue NNW for a couple of hundred more meters. It is
          amazing how the vegetaion and terrain reveal themselves. This area is
          where Grigsby's men and the artillery stopped and held Gorman's
          Brigade while McLaws' brigades and others attacked.

          The 15th Mass. monument is just NE of the Locher cabin, on the east
          side of Hwy 65. I found the other good place to cross 65 is to follow
          the farm path from the cabin, south to the barn. There is a gate in
          the fence at the barn making it easy to get to the road for crossing.
          The original War Dept. tour road is east of and parallels 65 here.
          Head north a hundred meters for the 15th Mass. monument. Few people
          recognize that tablets and monuments are along this "path."

          I've been too verbose and perhaps stated the obvious, but I hope this
          helps on your tour.

          Ron Dickey

          --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, "G E Mayers" <gerry1952@...> wrote:
          >
          > Dear Ron,
          >
          > Thank you for the excellent suggestion! I will make contact at ANBP
          > with one of the rangers to arrange for a copy of that brochure to be
          > sent.
          >
          > Is there also a brochure of the NW corner of the West Woods where
          > Pelham had his artillery?
          >
          > Yr. Obt. Svt.
          > G E "Gerry" Mayers
          >
          > To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even on
          > one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the Union, a
          > passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from the Almighty
          > God. --Anonymous
          > ----- Original Message -----
          > From: "dickeyr46" <dickeyr46@...>
          > To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
          > Sent: Friday, May 19, 2006 8:03 AM
          > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: re Battlefield off beaten path sites and
          > question
          >
          >
          > > Gerry,
          > >
          > > The suggestion of the area around the Locher cabin and the Hauser
          > > Ridge are excellent. Do not miss the NW portion of the West Woods
          > > where the 1st Minn was greeted with Pelham's artillery as they
          > > emeged
          > > from the woods. This NW corner tree line appears to be fairly true
          > > to
          > > the Carmen-Cope maps.
          > >
        • G E Mayers
          Dear Ron, Not at all. Thank you for your help. Yr. Obt. Svt. G E Gerry Mayers To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even on one s
          Message 4 of 16 , May 22 2:25 PM
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            Dear Ron,

            Not at all. Thank you for your help.

            Yr. Obt. Svt.
            G E "Gerry" Mayers

            To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even on
            one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the Union, a
            passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from the Almighty
            God. --Anonymous
            ----- Original Message -----
            From: "dickeyr46" <dickeyr46@...>
            To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Friday, May 19, 2006 11:19 AM
            Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: re Battlefield off beaten path sites and
            question


            > Gerry,
            >
            > I've never seen a brochure that covers the terrain west of Hwy 65.
            > Perhaps some of the other members might know of one. Map 5 of the
            > Battle Maps Brian Downey has posted on AoTW,
            > http://aotw.org/maps.php?map_number=5, is excellent. It clearly
            > shows
            > the 1st Minn and the 13th Vir, which was posted from Early's Brigade
            > as support for the horse artillery. Another good source of what the
            > terrain is like is the map Todd Livsey did,
            > http://www.westwoodgalleries.com/antietam/maps/viewmaps.html. He has
            > overlaid the 1862 vegetation and roads with white lines depicting
            > the
            > modern roads. Todd has also marked the park boundary in purple. Both
            > of these maps help.
            >
            > If I were drawing a map, this is what I'd do. From the Dunker
            > Church,
            > walk west out Confederate Ave. past the 34th NY and 125th PA
            > monuments. Carefully cross Hwy 65 bypass and continue west along the
            > dirt park road about 200 meters. This should put you at a small tree
            > line running N and S. Head N along the line. It is a bit rough...
            > rock
            > out croppings. Hauser Ridge rises to your left and there is open
            > "pasture" to your right. You'll see the Locher barn first and then
            > the
            > cabin to the right. They are marked as A. Poffenberger on most maps.
            > The barn is visible from Hwy 65; the cabin is not because of
            > vegetation. Continue NNW for a couple of hundred more meters. It is
            > amazing how the vegetaion and terrain reveal themselves. This area
            > is
            > where Grigsby's men and the artillery stopped and held Gorman's
            > Brigade while McLaws' brigades and others attacked.
            >
            > The 15th Mass. monument is just NE of the Locher cabin, on the east
            > side of Hwy 65. I found the other good place to cross 65 is to
            > follow
            > the farm path from the cabin, south to the barn. There is a gate in
            > the fence at the barn making it easy to get to the road for
            > crossing.
            > The original War Dept. tour road is east of and parallels 65 here.
            > Head north a hundred meters for the 15th Mass. monument. Few people
            > recognize that tablets and monuments are along this "path."
            >
            > I've been too verbose and perhaps stated the obvious, but I hope
            > this
            > helps on your tour.
            >
            > Ron Dickey
            >
            > --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, "G E Mayers" <gerry1952@...>
            > wrote:
            >>
            >> Dear Ron,
            >>
            >> Thank you for the excellent suggestion! I will make contact at ANBP
            >> with one of the rangers to arrange for a copy of that brochure to
            >> be
            >> sent.
            >>
            >> Is there also a brochure of the NW corner of the West Woods where
            >> Pelham had his artillery?
            >>
            >> Yr. Obt. Svt.
            >> G E "Gerry" Mayers
            >>
            >> To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even on
            >> one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the Union,
            >> a
            >> passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from the
            >> Almighty
            >> God. --Anonymous
            >> ----- Original Message -----
            >> From: "dickeyr46" <dickeyr46@...>
            >> To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
            >> Sent: Friday, May 19, 2006 8:03 AM
            >> Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: re Battlefield off beaten path sites
            >> and
            >> question
            >>
            >>
            >> > Gerry,
            >> >
            >> > The suggestion of the area around the Locher cabin and the Hauser
            >> > Ridge are excellent. Do not miss the NW portion of the West Woods
            >> > where the 1st Minn was greeted with Pelham's artillery as they
            >> > emeged
            >> > from the woods. This NW corner tree line appears to be fairly
            >> > true
            >> > to
            >> > the Carmen-Cope maps.
            >> >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > SPONSORED LINKS Civil war history Civil war battles Civil war
            >
            >
            > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
            > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
            >
            > a.. Visit your group "TalkAntietam" on the web.
            >
            > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
            > TalkAntietam-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
            >
            > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
            > Service.
            >
            >
            > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
            >
            >
          • susansevier2003
            Ron, Thanks for suggesting the Cornfield trail. Yesterday (Memorial Day weekend) I walked the trail from Autostop 4. It was early Sunday morning -- hazy but
            Message 5 of 16 , May 29 5:48 AM
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              Ron,

              Thanks for suggesting the Cornfield trail. Yesterday (Memorial Day
              weekend) I walked the trail from Autostop 4. It was early Sunday
              morning -- hazy but sunny; beautiful. As you predicted, I encountered
              no one, although I did meet a fox, trotting along the northern
              fenceline, that bounded off into the wheat when it saw me. It's only
              when one walks the ground that one sees how deceptively contured
              Miller's fields are. What looks like level ground from the road is
              really a quirky patchwork of undulations. It would compartmentalize any
              small-unit action here, the enemy appearing and disappearing from a
              soldier's view as he moved forward.

              The trail, after running east, turns north again towards Mansfield
              Ave/Poffenberger lane. In this vicinity, at "the northwest angle" of
              the woods and cornfield the artist Frank H. Schell [Battles & Leaders]
              sketched Confederate wounded, including "a tall, young Georgian with a
              shattered ankle" sitting next to his dead father. Would these have been
              members of Colquitt's command?

              David


              --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, "dickeyr46" <dickeyr46@...> wrote:
              >
              > Gerry,
              >
              > The suggestion of the area around the Locher cabin and the Hauser
              > Ridge are excellent. Do not miss the NW portion of the West Woods
              > where the 1st Minn was greeted with Pelham's artillery as they emeged
              > from the woods. This NW corner tree line appears to be fairly true to
              > the Carmen-Cope maps.
              >
              > Here's a suggestion for another easy to get to spot... it is the
              > northeast corner of the Cornfield. If you get the NPS broucher "The
              > Cornfield Trail," this location is marked as stop 4. It is easily
              > reached by walking from Auto Tour Stop 4, north through the Cornfield
              > using the trail, and then east along the northern Cornfield fence to
              > where the Cornfield meets the East Woods. This spot trully is a
              > location of "serenity and sacrifice." This spot is peaceful, with no
              > vehicle traffic and little foot traffic. Yet, this corner of the
              > Cornfield equaled or exceeded the violence of the western side where
              > Gibbons fought. From the initial passing of Duryea's brigade at 6 am,
              > to the attacks by Hay's Tigers, Hartsuff's men, and Law's Brigade, the
              > stand by the Penn. Reserves, Ripley and Gordon facing each other, and
              > finally Tyndale rolling up Colquitt's flank, this corner overlooked 3
              > hours of back-and-forth sacrifice. This location is also neat in that
              > most of the states had units in action in this vicinity. This corner
              > was described as "...dead men literally piled upon and across each
              > other" by one of Tyndale's regimental commanders. Of note is what you
              > can't see from here... you can't see Miller's farm house, nor can you
              > see the West Woods. This is a fantastic spot to appreciate how
              > restrictive the terrain could be.
              >
              > Well, that's a suggestion as a way to appreciate the Cornfield from
              > other than the "standard" read from Auto Stop 4.
              >
              > Ron Dickey
              >
              > --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, "G E Mayers" gerry1952@ wrote:
              > >
              > > Gang,
              > >
              > > In October (October 15th) I will be hosting a tour at Sharpsburg
              > > (Antietam) battlefield for the Civil War Discussion Group Fall 2006
              > > Muster. I realize some members of this board are also members of the
              > > other board.... but this is not a cross posting.
              > >
              > > I write with three main requests:
              > > 1. In addition to the remaining portion of the West Woods between
              the
              > > Philadelphia Brigade park and the SR 64 bypass, what other off the
              > > beaten path areas in the park are there in the area of the Morning
              > > Phases of the battle that can be visited with needing special
              > > permission to do so?
              > >
              > >
              >
            • Thomas Clemens
              More likely C. M. Douglas brigade from Lawton s Div. Thomas G. Clemens D.A. Professor of History Hagerstown Community College
              Message 6 of 16 , May 29 11:09 AM
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                More likely C. M. Douglas' brigade from Lawton's Div.

                Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
                Professor of History
                Hagerstown Community College


                >>> camdensquare@... 05/29/06 8:48 AM >>>
              • susansevier2003
                After I posted my first message about Schell, I noticed John M. Priest includes this incident in his Antietam book. Priest says that Frank Schell sketched the
                Message 7 of 16 , May 30 2:03 PM
                • 0 Attachment
                  After I posted my first message about Schell, I noticed John M. Priest
                  includes this incident in his Antietam book. Priest says that Frank
                  Schell sketched the wounded Confederate and his dead father shortly
                  after the artist "crossed the left of the 21 Georgia's former line"
                  (page 167). The 21st GA, part of Trimble's [Walker's] brigade, had
                  been sent forward to shore up Lawton and Ripley's line between Mumma's
                  lane and the Cornfield.




                  --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                  <mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com> , "Thomas Clemens" <clemenst@...>
                  wrote:
                  >
                  > More likely C. M. Douglas' brigade from Lawton's Div.
                  >
                  > Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
                  > Professor of History
                  > Hagerstown Community College
                  >
                  >
                  > >>> camdensquare@... 05/29/06 8:48 AM >>>
                  >




                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Thomas Clemens
                  Yes that makes sense too. Good. Thomas G. Clemens D.A. Professor of History Hagerstown Community College
                  Message 8 of 16 , May 31 7:03 PM
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Yes that makes sense too. Good.

                    Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
                    Professor of History
                    Hagerstown Community College


                    >>> camdensquare@... 05/30/06 5:03 PM >>>
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