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Re: [TalkAntietam] re Battlefield off beaten path sites and question

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  • G E Mayers
    That would be great Stephen! Please contact me privately with a copy of the photo, if you can send it electronically. Yr. Obt. Svt. G E Gerry Mayers To Be A
    Message 1 of 16 , May 12, 2006
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      That would be great Stephen! Please contact me privately with a copy
      of the photo, if you can send it electronically.

      Yr. Obt. Svt.
      G E "Gerry" Mayers

      To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even on
      one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the Union, a
      passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from the Almighty
      God. --Anonymous
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: "Stephen Recker" <recker@...>
      To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Friday, May 12, 2006 9:38 AM
      Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] re Battlefield off beaten path sites and
      question


      > I've got an old photo of the Rocky Ledge from about 1900 that you
      > can
      > use. The view is wide open, not a shrub in sight.
      >
      > Stephen
      >
      > On Friday, May 12, 2006, at 09:07 AM, RoteBaron@... wrote:
      >
      >> The "Rock Ledge" is another less-visited site, which I documented
      >> on
      >> my CWRT website: http://home.comcast.net/~schuylkillcwrt/
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
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      >
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    • dickeyr46
      Gerry, The suggestion of the area around the Locher cabin and the Hauser Ridge are excellent. Do not miss the NW portion of the West Woods where the 1st Minn
      Message 2 of 16 , May 19, 2006
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        Gerry,

        The suggestion of the area around the Locher cabin and the Hauser
        Ridge are excellent. Do not miss the NW portion of the West Woods
        where the 1st Minn was greeted with Pelham's artillery as they emeged
        from the woods. This NW corner tree line appears to be fairly true to
        the Carmen-Cope maps.

        Here's a suggestion for another easy to get to spot... it is the
        northeast corner of the Cornfield. If you get the NPS broucher "The
        Cornfield Trail," this location is marked as stop 4. It is easily
        reached by walking from Auto Tour Stop 4, north through the Cornfield
        using the trail, and then east along the northern Cornfield fence to
        where the Cornfield meets the East Woods. This spot trully is a
        location of "serenity and sacrifice." This spot is peaceful, with no
        vehicle traffic and little foot traffic. Yet, this corner of the
        Cornfield equaled or exceeded the violence of the western side where
        Gibbons fought. From the initial passing of Duryea's brigade at 6 am,
        to the attacks by Hay's Tigers, Hartsuff's men, and Law's Brigade, the
        stand by the Penn. Reserves, Ripley and Gordon facing each other, and
        finally Tyndale rolling up Colquitt's flank, this corner overlooked 3
        hours of back-and-forth sacrifice. This location is also neat in that
        most of the states had units in action in this vicinity. This corner
        was described as "...dead men literally piled upon and across each
        other" by one of Tyndale's regimental commanders. Of note is what you
        can't see from here... you can't see Miller's farm house, nor can you
        see the West Woods. This is a fantastic spot to appreciate how
        restrictive the terrain could be.

        Well, that's a suggestion as a way to appreciate the Cornfield from
        other than the "standard" read from Auto Stop 4.

        Ron Dickey

        --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, "G E Mayers" <gerry1952@...> wrote:
        >
        > Gang,
        >
        > In October (October 15th) I will be hosting a tour at Sharpsburg
        > (Antietam) battlefield for the Civil War Discussion Group Fall 2006
        > Muster. I realize some members of this board are also members of the
        > other board.... but this is not a cross posting.
        >
        > I write with three main requests:
        > 1. In addition to the remaining portion of the West Woods between the
        > Philadelphia Brigade park and the SR 64 bypass, what other off the
        > beaten path areas in the park are there in the area of the Morning
        > Phases of the battle that can be visited with needing special
        > permission to do so?
        >
        >
      • G E Mayers
        Dear Ron, Thank you for the excellent suggestion! I will make contact at ANBP with one of the rangers to arrange for a copy of that brochure to be sent. Is
        Message 3 of 16 , May 19, 2006
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          Dear Ron,

          Thank you for the excellent suggestion! I will make contact at ANBP
          with one of the rangers to arrange for a copy of that brochure to be
          sent.

          Is there also a brochure of the NW corner of the West Woods where
          Pelham had his artillery?

          Yr. Obt. Svt.
          G E "Gerry" Mayers

          To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even on
          one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the Union, a
          passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from the Almighty
          God. --Anonymous
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: "dickeyr46" <dickeyr46@...>
          To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Friday, May 19, 2006 8:03 AM
          Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: re Battlefield off beaten path sites and
          question


          > Gerry,
          >
          > The suggestion of the area around the Locher cabin and the Hauser
          > Ridge are excellent. Do not miss the NW portion of the West Woods
          > where the 1st Minn was greeted with Pelham's artillery as they
          > emeged
          > from the woods. This NW corner tree line appears to be fairly true
          > to
          > the Carmen-Cope maps.
          >
          > Here's a suggestion for another easy to get to spot... it is the
          > northeast corner of the Cornfield. If you get the NPS broucher "The
          > Cornfield Trail," this location is marked as stop 4. It is easily
          > reached by walking from Auto Tour Stop 4, north through the
          > Cornfield
          > using the trail, and then east along the northern Cornfield fence to
          > where the Cornfield meets the East Woods. This spot trully is a
          > location of "serenity and sacrifice." This spot is peaceful, with no
          > vehicle traffic and little foot traffic. Yet, this corner of the
          > Cornfield equaled or exceeded the violence of the western side where
          > Gibbons fought. From the initial passing of Duryea's brigade at 6
          > am,
          > to the attacks by Hay's Tigers, Hartsuff's men, and Law's Brigade,
          > the
          > stand by the Penn. Reserves, Ripley and Gordon facing each other,
          > and
          > finally Tyndale rolling up Colquitt's flank, this corner overlooked
          > 3
          > hours of back-and-forth sacrifice. This location is also neat in
          > that
          > most of the states had units in action in this vicinity. This corner
          > was described as "...dead men literally piled upon and across each
          > other" by one of Tyndale's regimental commanders. Of note is what
          > you
          > can't see from here... you can't see Miller's farm house, nor can
          > you
          > see the West Woods. This is a fantastic spot to appreciate how
          > restrictive the terrain could be.
          >
          > Well, that's a suggestion as a way to appreciate the Cornfield from
          > other than the "standard" read from Auto Stop 4.
          >
          > Ron Dickey
          >
          > --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, "G E Mayers" <gerry1952@...>
          > wrote:
          >>
          >> Gang,
          >>
          >> In October (October 15th) I will be hosting a tour at Sharpsburg
          >> (Antietam) battlefield for the Civil War Discussion Group Fall 2006
          >> Muster. I realize some members of this board are also members of
          >> the
          >> other board.... but this is not a cross posting.
          >>
          >> I write with three main requests:
          >> 1. In addition to the remaining portion of the West Woods between
          >> the
          >> Philadelphia Brigade park and the SR 64 bypass, what other off the
          >> beaten path areas in the park are there in the area of the Morning
          >> Phases of the battle that can be visited with needing special
          >> permission to do so?
          >>
          >>
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > SPONSORED LINKS Civil war history Civil war battles Civil war
          >
          >
          > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
          > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
          >
          > a.. Visit your group "TalkAntietam" on the web.
          >
          > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
          > TalkAntietam-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
          >
          > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
          > Service.
          >
          >
          > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
          >
          >
        • dickeyr46
          Gerry, I ve never seen a brochure that covers the terrain west of Hwy 65. Perhaps some of the other members might know of one. Map 5 of the Battle Maps Brian
          Message 4 of 16 , May 19, 2006
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            Gerry,

            I've never seen a brochure that covers the terrain west of Hwy 65.
            Perhaps some of the other members might know of one. Map 5 of the
            Battle Maps Brian Downey has posted on AoTW,
            http://aotw.org/maps.php?map_number=5, is excellent. It clearly shows
            the 1st Minn and the 13th Vir, which was posted from Early's Brigade
            as support for the horse artillery. Another good source of what the
            terrain is like is the map Todd Livsey did,
            http://www.westwoodgalleries.com/antietam/maps/viewmaps.html. He has
            overlaid the 1862 vegetation and roads with white lines depicting the
            modern roads. Todd has also marked the park boundary in purple. Both
            of these maps help.

            If I were drawing a map, this is what I'd do. From the Dunker Church,
            walk west out Confederate Ave. past the 34th NY and 125th PA
            monuments. Carefully cross Hwy 65 bypass and continue west along the
            dirt park road about 200 meters. This should put you at a small tree
            line running N and S. Head N along the line. It is a bit rough... rock
            out croppings. Hauser Ridge rises to your left and there is open
            "pasture" to your right. You'll see the Locher barn first and then the
            cabin to the right. They are marked as A. Poffenberger on most maps.
            The barn is visible from Hwy 65; the cabin is not because of
            vegetation. Continue NNW for a couple of hundred more meters. It is
            amazing how the vegetaion and terrain reveal themselves. This area is
            where Grigsby's men and the artillery stopped and held Gorman's
            Brigade while McLaws' brigades and others attacked.

            The 15th Mass. monument is just NE of the Locher cabin, on the east
            side of Hwy 65. I found the other good place to cross 65 is to follow
            the farm path from the cabin, south to the barn. There is a gate in
            the fence at the barn making it easy to get to the road for crossing.
            The original War Dept. tour road is east of and parallels 65 here.
            Head north a hundred meters for the 15th Mass. monument. Few people
            recognize that tablets and monuments are along this "path."

            I've been too verbose and perhaps stated the obvious, but I hope this
            helps on your tour.

            Ron Dickey

            --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, "G E Mayers" <gerry1952@...> wrote:
            >
            > Dear Ron,
            >
            > Thank you for the excellent suggestion! I will make contact at ANBP
            > with one of the rangers to arrange for a copy of that brochure to be
            > sent.
            >
            > Is there also a brochure of the NW corner of the West Woods where
            > Pelham had his artillery?
            >
            > Yr. Obt. Svt.
            > G E "Gerry" Mayers
            >
            > To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even on
            > one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the Union, a
            > passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from the Almighty
            > God. --Anonymous
            > ----- Original Message -----
            > From: "dickeyr46" <dickeyr46@...>
            > To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
            > Sent: Friday, May 19, 2006 8:03 AM
            > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: re Battlefield off beaten path sites and
            > question
            >
            >
            > > Gerry,
            > >
            > > The suggestion of the area around the Locher cabin and the Hauser
            > > Ridge are excellent. Do not miss the NW portion of the West Woods
            > > where the 1st Minn was greeted with Pelham's artillery as they
            > > emeged
            > > from the woods. This NW corner tree line appears to be fairly true
            > > to
            > > the Carmen-Cope maps.
            > >
          • G E Mayers
            Dear Ron, Not at all. Thank you for your help. Yr. Obt. Svt. G E Gerry Mayers To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even on one s
            Message 5 of 16 , May 22, 2006
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              Dear Ron,

              Not at all. Thank you for your help.

              Yr. Obt. Svt.
              G E "Gerry" Mayers

              To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even on
              one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the Union, a
              passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from the Almighty
              God. --Anonymous
              ----- Original Message -----
              From: "dickeyr46" <dickeyr46@...>
              To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Friday, May 19, 2006 11:19 AM
              Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: re Battlefield off beaten path sites and
              question


              > Gerry,
              >
              > I've never seen a brochure that covers the terrain west of Hwy 65.
              > Perhaps some of the other members might know of one. Map 5 of the
              > Battle Maps Brian Downey has posted on AoTW,
              > http://aotw.org/maps.php?map_number=5, is excellent. It clearly
              > shows
              > the 1st Minn and the 13th Vir, which was posted from Early's Brigade
              > as support for the horse artillery. Another good source of what the
              > terrain is like is the map Todd Livsey did,
              > http://www.westwoodgalleries.com/antietam/maps/viewmaps.html. He has
              > overlaid the 1862 vegetation and roads with white lines depicting
              > the
              > modern roads. Todd has also marked the park boundary in purple. Both
              > of these maps help.
              >
              > If I were drawing a map, this is what I'd do. From the Dunker
              > Church,
              > walk west out Confederate Ave. past the 34th NY and 125th PA
              > monuments. Carefully cross Hwy 65 bypass and continue west along the
              > dirt park road about 200 meters. This should put you at a small tree
              > line running N and S. Head N along the line. It is a bit rough...
              > rock
              > out croppings. Hauser Ridge rises to your left and there is open
              > "pasture" to your right. You'll see the Locher barn first and then
              > the
              > cabin to the right. They are marked as A. Poffenberger on most maps.
              > The barn is visible from Hwy 65; the cabin is not because of
              > vegetation. Continue NNW for a couple of hundred more meters. It is
              > amazing how the vegetaion and terrain reveal themselves. This area
              > is
              > where Grigsby's men and the artillery stopped and held Gorman's
              > Brigade while McLaws' brigades and others attacked.
              >
              > The 15th Mass. monument is just NE of the Locher cabin, on the east
              > side of Hwy 65. I found the other good place to cross 65 is to
              > follow
              > the farm path from the cabin, south to the barn. There is a gate in
              > the fence at the barn making it easy to get to the road for
              > crossing.
              > The original War Dept. tour road is east of and parallels 65 here.
              > Head north a hundred meters for the 15th Mass. monument. Few people
              > recognize that tablets and monuments are along this "path."
              >
              > I've been too verbose and perhaps stated the obvious, but I hope
              > this
              > helps on your tour.
              >
              > Ron Dickey
              >
              > --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, "G E Mayers" <gerry1952@...>
              > wrote:
              >>
              >> Dear Ron,
              >>
              >> Thank you for the excellent suggestion! I will make contact at ANBP
              >> with one of the rangers to arrange for a copy of that brochure to
              >> be
              >> sent.
              >>
              >> Is there also a brochure of the NW corner of the West Woods where
              >> Pelham had his artillery?
              >>
              >> Yr. Obt. Svt.
              >> G E "Gerry" Mayers
              >>
              >> To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even on
              >> one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the Union,
              >> a
              >> passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from the
              >> Almighty
              >> God. --Anonymous
              >> ----- Original Message -----
              >> From: "dickeyr46" <dickeyr46@...>
              >> To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
              >> Sent: Friday, May 19, 2006 8:03 AM
              >> Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: re Battlefield off beaten path sites
              >> and
              >> question
              >>
              >>
              >> > Gerry,
              >> >
              >> > The suggestion of the area around the Locher cabin and the Hauser
              >> > Ridge are excellent. Do not miss the NW portion of the West Woods
              >> > where the 1st Minn was greeted with Pelham's artillery as they
              >> > emeged
              >> > from the woods. This NW corner tree line appears to be fairly
              >> > true
              >> > to
              >> > the Carmen-Cope maps.
              >> >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > SPONSORED LINKS Civil war history Civil war battles Civil war
              >
              >
              > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
              > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
              >
              > a.. Visit your group "TalkAntietam" on the web.
              >
              > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
              > TalkAntietam-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
              >
              > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
              > Service.
              >
              >
              > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
              >
              >
            • susansevier2003
              Ron, Thanks for suggesting the Cornfield trail. Yesterday (Memorial Day weekend) I walked the trail from Autostop 4. It was early Sunday morning -- hazy but
              Message 6 of 16 , May 29, 2006
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                Ron,

                Thanks for suggesting the Cornfield trail. Yesterday (Memorial Day
                weekend) I walked the trail from Autostop 4. It was early Sunday
                morning -- hazy but sunny; beautiful. As you predicted, I encountered
                no one, although I did meet a fox, trotting along the northern
                fenceline, that bounded off into the wheat when it saw me. It's only
                when one walks the ground that one sees how deceptively contured
                Miller's fields are. What looks like level ground from the road is
                really a quirky patchwork of undulations. It would compartmentalize any
                small-unit action here, the enemy appearing and disappearing from a
                soldier's view as he moved forward.

                The trail, after running east, turns north again towards Mansfield
                Ave/Poffenberger lane. In this vicinity, at "the northwest angle" of
                the woods and cornfield the artist Frank H. Schell [Battles & Leaders]
                sketched Confederate wounded, including "a tall, young Georgian with a
                shattered ankle" sitting next to his dead father. Would these have been
                members of Colquitt's command?

                David


                --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, "dickeyr46" <dickeyr46@...> wrote:
                >
                > Gerry,
                >
                > The suggestion of the area around the Locher cabin and the Hauser
                > Ridge are excellent. Do not miss the NW portion of the West Woods
                > where the 1st Minn was greeted with Pelham's artillery as they emeged
                > from the woods. This NW corner tree line appears to be fairly true to
                > the Carmen-Cope maps.
                >
                > Here's a suggestion for another easy to get to spot... it is the
                > northeast corner of the Cornfield. If you get the NPS broucher "The
                > Cornfield Trail," this location is marked as stop 4. It is easily
                > reached by walking from Auto Tour Stop 4, north through the Cornfield
                > using the trail, and then east along the northern Cornfield fence to
                > where the Cornfield meets the East Woods. This spot trully is a
                > location of "serenity and sacrifice." This spot is peaceful, with no
                > vehicle traffic and little foot traffic. Yet, this corner of the
                > Cornfield equaled or exceeded the violence of the western side where
                > Gibbons fought. From the initial passing of Duryea's brigade at 6 am,
                > to the attacks by Hay's Tigers, Hartsuff's men, and Law's Brigade, the
                > stand by the Penn. Reserves, Ripley and Gordon facing each other, and
                > finally Tyndale rolling up Colquitt's flank, this corner overlooked 3
                > hours of back-and-forth sacrifice. This location is also neat in that
                > most of the states had units in action in this vicinity. This corner
                > was described as "...dead men literally piled upon and across each
                > other" by one of Tyndale's regimental commanders. Of note is what you
                > can't see from here... you can't see Miller's farm house, nor can you
                > see the West Woods. This is a fantastic spot to appreciate how
                > restrictive the terrain could be.
                >
                > Well, that's a suggestion as a way to appreciate the Cornfield from
                > other than the "standard" read from Auto Stop 4.
                >
                > Ron Dickey
                >
                > --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, "G E Mayers" gerry1952@ wrote:
                > >
                > > Gang,
                > >
                > > In October (October 15th) I will be hosting a tour at Sharpsburg
                > > (Antietam) battlefield for the Civil War Discussion Group Fall 2006
                > > Muster. I realize some members of this board are also members of the
                > > other board.... but this is not a cross posting.
                > >
                > > I write with three main requests:
                > > 1. In addition to the remaining portion of the West Woods between
                the
                > > Philadelphia Brigade park and the SR 64 bypass, what other off the
                > > beaten path areas in the park are there in the area of the Morning
                > > Phases of the battle that can be visited with needing special
                > > permission to do so?
                > >
                > >
                >
              • Thomas Clemens
                More likely C. M. Douglas brigade from Lawton s Div. Thomas G. Clemens D.A. Professor of History Hagerstown Community College
                Message 7 of 16 , May 29, 2006
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                  More likely C. M. Douglas' brigade from Lawton's Div.

                  Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
                  Professor of History
                  Hagerstown Community College


                  >>> camdensquare@... 05/29/06 8:48 AM >>>
                • susansevier2003
                  After I posted my first message about Schell, I noticed John M. Priest includes this incident in his Antietam book. Priest says that Frank Schell sketched the
                  Message 8 of 16 , May 30, 2006
                  • 0 Attachment
                    After I posted my first message about Schell, I noticed John M. Priest
                    includes this incident in his Antietam book. Priest says that Frank
                    Schell sketched the wounded Confederate and his dead father shortly
                    after the artist "crossed the left of the 21 Georgia's former line"
                    (page 167). The 21st GA, part of Trimble's [Walker's] brigade, had
                    been sent forward to shore up Lawton and Ripley's line between Mumma's
                    lane and the Cornfield.




                    --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                    <mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com> , "Thomas Clemens" <clemenst@...>
                    wrote:
                    >
                    > More likely C. M. Douglas' brigade from Lawton's Div.
                    >
                    > Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
                    > Professor of History
                    > Hagerstown Community College
                    >
                    >
                    > >>> camdensquare@... 05/29/06 8:48 AM >>>
                    >




                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Thomas Clemens
                    Yes that makes sense too. Good. Thomas G. Clemens D.A. Professor of History Hagerstown Community College
                    Message 9 of 16 , May 31, 2006
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Yes that makes sense too. Good.

                      Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
                      Professor of History
                      Hagerstown Community College


                      >>> camdensquare@... 05/30/06 5:03 PM >>>
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