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Re: [TalkAntietam] re Battlefield off beaten path sites and question

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  • G E Mayers
    Thanks Stephen. Re the options in Question No. 1, how would I get past the Locher cabin, etc safely? And also how would I find the spot where Doubleday had
    Message 1 of 16 , May 12, 2006
      Thanks Stephen. Re the options in Question No. 1, how would I get past
      the Locher cabin, etc safely? And also how would I find the spot where
      Doubleday had some of his artillery?

      Yr. Obt. Svt.
      G E "Gerry" Mayers

      To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even on
      one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the Union, a
      passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from the Almighty
      God. --Anonymous
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: "Stephen Recker" <recker@...>
      To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Friday, May 12, 2006 8:12 AM
      Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] re Battlefield off beaten path sites and
      question


      > 1. Nicodemus Heights and Hauser Ridge require permission of the
      > owners,
      > but you can go a bit west of the Locher cabin without it and see
      > some
      > great spots relative to the attack on the 15th Mass. The space in
      > between Philadelphia Brigade Park and Rt. 65 is open to the public.
      > I've got a neat old photo of Jackson's rocks back there without the
      > woods. The north side of the J. Poffenberger Farm where Doubleday
      > had
      > some cannon is a neat spot and is open. Brian Baracz took us there
      > last
      > year.
      >
      > 2. Brian just did a great walking tour of the east side of Burnside
      > Bridge. I would talk to him.
      >
      > 3. Yes, there is a nice brochure of this trail. You can get it at
      > the
      > visitor center desk. The hike is pretty challenging. There are a few
      > variations for the hearty few. You can start with a walk down to
      > Snavely Ford and then follow Rodman's path all the way through the
      > woods to the position of the 12th Ohio where you could pick up the
      > park
      > trail. You could end with a walk up to the 9th New York. I have done
      > both of these with Brian, Keith Snyder and Mike Gamble, all park
      > rangers who I am sure would be glad to point you to some great
      > stories,
      > maps and photos.
      >
      > Stephen
      >
      > On Thursday, May 11, 2006, at 10:06 PM, G E Mayers wrote:
      >
      >> 1. In addition to the remaining portion of the West Woods between
      >> the
      >> Philadelphia Brigade park and the SR 64 bypass, what other off the
      >> beaten path areas in the park are there in the area of the Morning
      >> Phases of the battle that can be visited with needing special
      >> permission to do so?
      >>
      >> 2. Which of the rangers at the park would be best choices for me to
      >> contact with respects to obtaining information on question no. 1 as
      >> well as the entire area of Burnside's Assault in the afternoon of
      >> September 17th?
      >>
      >> 3. Does anyone know if there is a brochure or other material
      >> available
      >> for the Otto Farm Trail? How difficult or challenging is the trail
      >> to
      >> hike? The last time I was on the ground of the Otto Farm was during
      >> the last Muster of the old ADG a few years ago. Realizing that a
      >> lot
      >> of work has been done over the last couple years in that sector,
      >> any
      >> assistance with trail routes, etc is much appreciated.
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > SPONSORED LINKS Civil war history Civil war battles Civil war
      >
      >
      > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
      > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
      >
      > a.. Visit your group "TalkAntietam" on the web.
      >
      > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
      > TalkAntietam-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
      >
      > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
      > Service.
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    • G E Mayers
      Dear Tom; Thank you for the note. If you know of other locations sort of off the beaten track, please advise. The CWDG Fall Muster is a combination Gettysburg
      Message 2 of 16 , May 12, 2006
        Dear Tom;

        Thank you for the note. If you know of other locations sort of off the
        beaten track, please advise.

        The CWDG Fall Muster is a combination Gettysburg muster (Friday and
        Saturday) and a Sharpsburg muster (Sunday), the weekend of October
        13-15. Allan Shikhvarg, the CWDG Fall Muster Meister for Life, has
        posted the schedule at the following link:

        http://www.cwdgonline.org/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&p=15036#15036

        Contact Allan directly if you have any questions or you can respond
        via the online board.

        Yr. Obt. Svt.
        G E "Gerry" Mayers

        To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even on
        one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the Union, a
        passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from the Almighty
        God. --Anonymous
        ----- Original Message -----
        From: <RoteBaron@...>
        To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Friday, May 12, 2006 7:49 AM
        Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] re Battlefield off beaten path sites and
        question


        >I picked up the new brochure for the Otto Farm trail in September.
        >The trail terrain is now easily walkable. Of course it has some
        >modest climbs and descents, and it is a decent walk from the parkng
        >lot to the southwest end of the cornfield.
        >
        > Let me know if I can assist in anything regarding the Antietam
        > muster.
        >
        > I've been off CWDG for two months and have tried to re-subscibe via
        > my new email. I'll try again today
        >
        > Tom Shay
        >
        > -------------- Original message --------------
        > From: "G E Mayers" <gerry1952@...>
        >
        >> Gang,
        >>
        >> In October (October 15th) I will be hosting a tour at Sharpsburg
        >> (Antietam) battlefield for the Civil War Discussion Group Fall 2006
        >> Muster. I realize some members of this board are also members of
        >> the
        >> other board.... but this is not a cross posting.
        >>
        >> I write with three main requests:
        >> 1. In addition to the remaining portion of the West Woods between
        >> the
        >> Philadelphia Brigade park and the SR 64 bypass, what other off the
        >> beaten path areas in the park are there in the area of the Morning
        >> Phases of the battle that can be visited with needing special
        >> permission to do so?
        >>
        >> 2. Which of the rangers at the park would be best choices for me to
        >> contact with respects to obtaining information on question no. 1 as
        >> well as the entire area of Burnside's Assault in the afternoon of
        >> September 17th?
        >>
        >> 3. Does anyone know if there is a brochure or other material
        >> available
        >> for the Otto Farm Trail? How difficult or challenging is the trail
        >> to
        >> hike? The last time I was on the ground of the Otto Farm was during
        >> the last Muster of the old ADG a few years ago. Realizing that a
        >> lot
        >> of work has been done over the last couple years in that sector,
        >> any
        >> assistance with trail routes, etc is much appreciated.
        >>
        >> Yr. Obt. Svt.
        >> G E "Gerry" Mayers
        >>
        >> To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even on
        >> one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the Union,
        >> a
        >> passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from the
        >> Almighty
        >> God. --Anonymous
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >> Yahoo! Groups Links
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > SPONSORED LINKS Civil war history Civil war battles Civil war
        >
        >
        > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
        > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
        >
        > a.. Visit your group "TalkAntietam" on the web.
        >
        > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
        > TalkAntietam-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
        >
        > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
        > Service.
        >
        >
        > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
        >
        >
      • RoteBaron@comcast.net
        I finally manage to re-subscribe to CWDG this morning! I have hiked past the Locher Cabin up to Hauser Ridge many times with rangers. Much of the terrain is
        Message 3 of 16 , May 12, 2006
          I finally manage to re-subscribe to CWDG this morning!

          I have hiked past the Locher Cabin up to Hauser Ridge many times with rangers. Much of the terrain is grassy with some rock outcroppings, then there is the climb to top of the ridge. Obviously crops along ridge can vary by season.

          The "Rock Ledge" is another less-visited site, which I documented on my CWRT website: http://home.comcast.net/~schuylkillcwrt/

          By Doubleday gun positions, are you referring to the J. Poffenberger Hill location? The farm is now open and easily accessible.

          There are plenty of other sites to visit, depanding on itinerary and time available.

          Tom Shay
          -------------- Original message --------------
          From: "G E Mayers" <gerry1952@...>

          > Dear Tom;
          >
          > Thank you for the note. If you know of other locations sort of off the
          > beaten track, please advise.
          >
          > The CWDG Fall Muster is a combination Gettysburg muster (Friday and
          > Saturday) and a Sharpsburg muster (Sunday), the weekend of October
          > 13-15. Allan Shikhvarg, the CWDG Fall Muster Meister for Life, has
          > posted the schedule at the following link:
          >
          > http://www.cwdgonline.org/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&p=15036#15036
          >
          > Contact Allan directly if you have any questions or you can respond
          > via the online board.
          >
          > Yr. Obt. Svt.
          > G E "Gerry" Mayers
          >
          > To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even on
          > one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the Union, a
          > passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from the Almighty
          > God. --Anonymous
          > ----- Original Message -----
          > From:
          > To:
          > Sent: Friday, May 12, 2006 7:49 AM
          > Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] re Battlefield off beaten path sites and
          > question
          >
          >
          > >I picked up the new brochure for the Otto Farm trail in September.
          > >The trail terrain is now easily walkable. Of course it has some
          > >modest climbs and descents, and it is a decent walk from the parkng
          > >lot to the southwest end of the cornfield.
          > >
          > > Let me know if I can assist in anything regarding the Antietam
          > > muster.
          > >
          > > I've been off CWDG for two months and have tried to re-subscibe via
          > > my new email. I'll try again today
          > >
          > > Tom Shay
          > >
          > > -------------- Original message --------------
          > > From: "G E Mayers"
          > >
          > >> Gang,
          > >>
          > >> In October (October 15th) I will be hosting a tour at Sharpsburg
          > >> (Antietam) battlefield for the Civil War Discussion Group Fall 2006
          > >> Muster. I realize some members of this board are also members of
          > >> the
          > >> other board.... but this is not a cross posting.
          > >>
          > >> I write with three main requests:
          > >> 1. In addition to the remaining portion of the West Woods between
          > >> the
          > >> Philadelphia Brigade park and the SR 64 bypass, what other off the
          > >> beaten path areas in the park are there in the area of the Morning
          > >> Phases of the battle that can be visited with needing special
          > >> permission to do so?
          > >>
          > >> 2. Which of the rangers at the park would be best choices for me to
          > >> contact with respects to obtaining information on question no. 1 as
          > >> well as the entire area of Burnside's Assault in the afternoon of
          > >> September 17th?
          > >>
          > >> 3. Does anyone know if there is a brochure or other material
          > >> available
          > >> for the Otto Farm Trail? How difficult or challenging is the trail
          > >> to
          > >> hike? The last time I was on the ground of the Otto Farm was during
          > >> the last Muster of the old ADG a few years ago. Realizing that a
          > >> lot
          > >> of work has been done over the last couple years in that sector,
          > >> any
          > >> assistance with trail routes, etc is much appreciated.
          > >>
          > >> Yr. Obt. Svt.
          > >> G E "Gerry" Mayers
          > >>
          > >> To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even on
          > >> one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the Union,
          > >> a
          > >> passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from the
          > >> Almighty
          > >> God. --Anonymous
          > >>
          > >>
          > >>
          > >>
          > >>
          > >>
          > >>
          > >> Yahoo! Groups Links
          > >>
          > >>
          > >>
          > >>
          > >>
          > >>
          > >
          > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > SPONSORED LINKS Civil war history Civil war battles Civil war
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
          > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
          > >
          > > a.. Visit your group "TalkAntietam" on the web.
          > >
          > > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
          > > TalkAntietam-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
          > >
          > > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
          > > Service.
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
          > >
          > >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Stephen Recker
          I ve got an old photo of the Rocky Ledge from about 1900 that you can use. The view is wide open, not a shrub in sight. Stephen
          Message 4 of 16 , May 12, 2006
            I've got an old photo of the Rocky Ledge from about 1900 that you can
            use. The view is wide open, not a shrub in sight.

            Stephen

            On Friday, May 12, 2006, at 09:07 AM, RoteBaron@... wrote:

            > The "Rock Ledge" is another less-visited site, which I documented on
            > my CWRT website: http://home.comcast.net/~schuylkillcwrt/
          • G E Mayers
            That would be great Stephen! Please contact me privately with a copy of the photo, if you can send it electronically. Yr. Obt. Svt. G E Gerry Mayers To Be A
            Message 5 of 16 , May 12, 2006
              That would be great Stephen! Please contact me privately with a copy
              of the photo, if you can send it electronically.

              Yr. Obt. Svt.
              G E "Gerry" Mayers

              To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even on
              one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the Union, a
              passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from the Almighty
              God. --Anonymous
              ----- Original Message -----
              From: "Stephen Recker" <recker@...>
              To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Friday, May 12, 2006 9:38 AM
              Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] re Battlefield off beaten path sites and
              question


              > I've got an old photo of the Rocky Ledge from about 1900 that you
              > can
              > use. The view is wide open, not a shrub in sight.
              >
              > Stephen
              >
              > On Friday, May 12, 2006, at 09:07 AM, RoteBaron@... wrote:
              >
              >> The "Rock Ledge" is another less-visited site, which I documented
              >> on
              >> my CWRT website: http://home.comcast.net/~schuylkillcwrt/
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
              > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
              >
              > a.. Visit your group "TalkAntietam" on the web.
              >
              > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
              > TalkAntietam-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
              >
              > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
              > Service.
              >
              >
              > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
              >
              >
            • dickeyr46
              Gerry, The suggestion of the area around the Locher cabin and the Hauser Ridge are excellent. Do not miss the NW portion of the West Woods where the 1st Minn
              Message 6 of 16 , May 19, 2006
                Gerry,

                The suggestion of the area around the Locher cabin and the Hauser
                Ridge are excellent. Do not miss the NW portion of the West Woods
                where the 1st Minn was greeted with Pelham's artillery as they emeged
                from the woods. This NW corner tree line appears to be fairly true to
                the Carmen-Cope maps.

                Here's a suggestion for another easy to get to spot... it is the
                northeast corner of the Cornfield. If you get the NPS broucher "The
                Cornfield Trail," this location is marked as stop 4. It is easily
                reached by walking from Auto Tour Stop 4, north through the Cornfield
                using the trail, and then east along the northern Cornfield fence to
                where the Cornfield meets the East Woods. This spot trully is a
                location of "serenity and sacrifice." This spot is peaceful, with no
                vehicle traffic and little foot traffic. Yet, this corner of the
                Cornfield equaled or exceeded the violence of the western side where
                Gibbons fought. From the initial passing of Duryea's brigade at 6 am,
                to the attacks by Hay's Tigers, Hartsuff's men, and Law's Brigade, the
                stand by the Penn. Reserves, Ripley and Gordon facing each other, and
                finally Tyndale rolling up Colquitt's flank, this corner overlooked 3
                hours of back-and-forth sacrifice. This location is also neat in that
                most of the states had units in action in this vicinity. This corner
                was described as "...dead men literally piled upon and across each
                other" by one of Tyndale's regimental commanders. Of note is what you
                can't see from here... you can't see Miller's farm house, nor can you
                see the West Woods. This is a fantastic spot to appreciate how
                restrictive the terrain could be.

                Well, that's a suggestion as a way to appreciate the Cornfield from
                other than the "standard" read from Auto Stop 4.

                Ron Dickey

                --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, "G E Mayers" <gerry1952@...> wrote:
                >
                > Gang,
                >
                > In October (October 15th) I will be hosting a tour at Sharpsburg
                > (Antietam) battlefield for the Civil War Discussion Group Fall 2006
                > Muster. I realize some members of this board are also members of the
                > other board.... but this is not a cross posting.
                >
                > I write with three main requests:
                > 1. In addition to the remaining portion of the West Woods between the
                > Philadelphia Brigade park and the SR 64 bypass, what other off the
                > beaten path areas in the park are there in the area of the Morning
                > Phases of the battle that can be visited with needing special
                > permission to do so?
                >
                >
              • G E Mayers
                Dear Ron, Thank you for the excellent suggestion! I will make contact at ANBP with one of the rangers to arrange for a copy of that brochure to be sent. Is
                Message 7 of 16 , May 19, 2006
                  Dear Ron,

                  Thank you for the excellent suggestion! I will make contact at ANBP
                  with one of the rangers to arrange for a copy of that brochure to be
                  sent.

                  Is there also a brochure of the NW corner of the West Woods where
                  Pelham had his artillery?

                  Yr. Obt. Svt.
                  G E "Gerry" Mayers

                  To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even on
                  one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the Union, a
                  passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from the Almighty
                  God. --Anonymous
                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: "dickeyr46" <dickeyr46@...>
                  To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                  Sent: Friday, May 19, 2006 8:03 AM
                  Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: re Battlefield off beaten path sites and
                  question


                  > Gerry,
                  >
                  > The suggestion of the area around the Locher cabin and the Hauser
                  > Ridge are excellent. Do not miss the NW portion of the West Woods
                  > where the 1st Minn was greeted with Pelham's artillery as they
                  > emeged
                  > from the woods. This NW corner tree line appears to be fairly true
                  > to
                  > the Carmen-Cope maps.
                  >
                  > Here's a suggestion for another easy to get to spot... it is the
                  > northeast corner of the Cornfield. If you get the NPS broucher "The
                  > Cornfield Trail," this location is marked as stop 4. It is easily
                  > reached by walking from Auto Tour Stop 4, north through the
                  > Cornfield
                  > using the trail, and then east along the northern Cornfield fence to
                  > where the Cornfield meets the East Woods. This spot trully is a
                  > location of "serenity and sacrifice." This spot is peaceful, with no
                  > vehicle traffic and little foot traffic. Yet, this corner of the
                  > Cornfield equaled or exceeded the violence of the western side where
                  > Gibbons fought. From the initial passing of Duryea's brigade at 6
                  > am,
                  > to the attacks by Hay's Tigers, Hartsuff's men, and Law's Brigade,
                  > the
                  > stand by the Penn. Reserves, Ripley and Gordon facing each other,
                  > and
                  > finally Tyndale rolling up Colquitt's flank, this corner overlooked
                  > 3
                  > hours of back-and-forth sacrifice. This location is also neat in
                  > that
                  > most of the states had units in action in this vicinity. This corner
                  > was described as "...dead men literally piled upon and across each
                  > other" by one of Tyndale's regimental commanders. Of note is what
                  > you
                  > can't see from here... you can't see Miller's farm house, nor can
                  > you
                  > see the West Woods. This is a fantastic spot to appreciate how
                  > restrictive the terrain could be.
                  >
                  > Well, that's a suggestion as a way to appreciate the Cornfield from
                  > other than the "standard" read from Auto Stop 4.
                  >
                  > Ron Dickey
                  >
                  > --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, "G E Mayers" <gerry1952@...>
                  > wrote:
                  >>
                  >> Gang,
                  >>
                  >> In October (October 15th) I will be hosting a tour at Sharpsburg
                  >> (Antietam) battlefield for the Civil War Discussion Group Fall 2006
                  >> Muster. I realize some members of this board are also members of
                  >> the
                  >> other board.... but this is not a cross posting.
                  >>
                  >> I write with three main requests:
                  >> 1. In addition to the remaining portion of the West Woods between
                  >> the
                  >> Philadelphia Brigade park and the SR 64 bypass, what other off the
                  >> beaten path areas in the park are there in the area of the Morning
                  >> Phases of the battle that can be visited with needing special
                  >> permission to do so?
                  >>
                  >>
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > SPONSORED LINKS Civil war history Civil war battles Civil war
                  >
                  >
                  > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                  > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
                  >
                  > a.. Visit your group "TalkAntietam" on the web.
                  >
                  > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                  > TalkAntietam-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                  >
                  > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                  > Service.
                  >
                  >
                  > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                  >
                  >
                • dickeyr46
                  Gerry, I ve never seen a brochure that covers the terrain west of Hwy 65. Perhaps some of the other members might know of one. Map 5 of the Battle Maps Brian
                  Message 8 of 16 , May 19, 2006
                    Gerry,

                    I've never seen a brochure that covers the terrain west of Hwy 65.
                    Perhaps some of the other members might know of one. Map 5 of the
                    Battle Maps Brian Downey has posted on AoTW,
                    http://aotw.org/maps.php?map_number=5, is excellent. It clearly shows
                    the 1st Minn and the 13th Vir, which was posted from Early's Brigade
                    as support for the horse artillery. Another good source of what the
                    terrain is like is the map Todd Livsey did,
                    http://www.westwoodgalleries.com/antietam/maps/viewmaps.html. He has
                    overlaid the 1862 vegetation and roads with white lines depicting the
                    modern roads. Todd has also marked the park boundary in purple. Both
                    of these maps help.

                    If I were drawing a map, this is what I'd do. From the Dunker Church,
                    walk west out Confederate Ave. past the 34th NY and 125th PA
                    monuments. Carefully cross Hwy 65 bypass and continue west along the
                    dirt park road about 200 meters. This should put you at a small tree
                    line running N and S. Head N along the line. It is a bit rough... rock
                    out croppings. Hauser Ridge rises to your left and there is open
                    "pasture" to your right. You'll see the Locher barn first and then the
                    cabin to the right. They are marked as A. Poffenberger on most maps.
                    The barn is visible from Hwy 65; the cabin is not because of
                    vegetation. Continue NNW for a couple of hundred more meters. It is
                    amazing how the vegetaion and terrain reveal themselves. This area is
                    where Grigsby's men and the artillery stopped and held Gorman's
                    Brigade while McLaws' brigades and others attacked.

                    The 15th Mass. monument is just NE of the Locher cabin, on the east
                    side of Hwy 65. I found the other good place to cross 65 is to follow
                    the farm path from the cabin, south to the barn. There is a gate in
                    the fence at the barn making it easy to get to the road for crossing.
                    The original War Dept. tour road is east of and parallels 65 here.
                    Head north a hundred meters for the 15th Mass. monument. Few people
                    recognize that tablets and monuments are along this "path."

                    I've been too verbose and perhaps stated the obvious, but I hope this
                    helps on your tour.

                    Ron Dickey

                    --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, "G E Mayers" <gerry1952@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Dear Ron,
                    >
                    > Thank you for the excellent suggestion! I will make contact at ANBP
                    > with one of the rangers to arrange for a copy of that brochure to be
                    > sent.
                    >
                    > Is there also a brochure of the NW corner of the West Woods where
                    > Pelham had his artillery?
                    >
                    > Yr. Obt. Svt.
                    > G E "Gerry" Mayers
                    >
                    > To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even on
                    > one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the Union, a
                    > passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from the Almighty
                    > God. --Anonymous
                    > ----- Original Message -----
                    > From: "dickeyr46" <dickeyr46@...>
                    > To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                    > Sent: Friday, May 19, 2006 8:03 AM
                    > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: re Battlefield off beaten path sites and
                    > question
                    >
                    >
                    > > Gerry,
                    > >
                    > > The suggestion of the area around the Locher cabin and the Hauser
                    > > Ridge are excellent. Do not miss the NW portion of the West Woods
                    > > where the 1st Minn was greeted with Pelham's artillery as they
                    > > emeged
                    > > from the woods. This NW corner tree line appears to be fairly true
                    > > to
                    > > the Carmen-Cope maps.
                    > >
                  • G E Mayers
                    Dear Ron, Not at all. Thank you for your help. Yr. Obt. Svt. G E Gerry Mayers To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even on one s
                    Message 9 of 16 , May 22, 2006
                      Dear Ron,

                      Not at all. Thank you for your help.

                      Yr. Obt. Svt.
                      G E "Gerry" Mayers

                      To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even on
                      one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the Union, a
                      passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from the Almighty
                      God. --Anonymous
                      ----- Original Message -----
                      From: "dickeyr46" <dickeyr46@...>
                      To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                      Sent: Friday, May 19, 2006 11:19 AM
                      Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: re Battlefield off beaten path sites and
                      question


                      > Gerry,
                      >
                      > I've never seen a brochure that covers the terrain west of Hwy 65.
                      > Perhaps some of the other members might know of one. Map 5 of the
                      > Battle Maps Brian Downey has posted on AoTW,
                      > http://aotw.org/maps.php?map_number=5, is excellent. It clearly
                      > shows
                      > the 1st Minn and the 13th Vir, which was posted from Early's Brigade
                      > as support for the horse artillery. Another good source of what the
                      > terrain is like is the map Todd Livsey did,
                      > http://www.westwoodgalleries.com/antietam/maps/viewmaps.html. He has
                      > overlaid the 1862 vegetation and roads with white lines depicting
                      > the
                      > modern roads. Todd has also marked the park boundary in purple. Both
                      > of these maps help.
                      >
                      > If I were drawing a map, this is what I'd do. From the Dunker
                      > Church,
                      > walk west out Confederate Ave. past the 34th NY and 125th PA
                      > monuments. Carefully cross Hwy 65 bypass and continue west along the
                      > dirt park road about 200 meters. This should put you at a small tree
                      > line running N and S. Head N along the line. It is a bit rough...
                      > rock
                      > out croppings. Hauser Ridge rises to your left and there is open
                      > "pasture" to your right. You'll see the Locher barn first and then
                      > the
                      > cabin to the right. They are marked as A. Poffenberger on most maps.
                      > The barn is visible from Hwy 65; the cabin is not because of
                      > vegetation. Continue NNW for a couple of hundred more meters. It is
                      > amazing how the vegetaion and terrain reveal themselves. This area
                      > is
                      > where Grigsby's men and the artillery stopped and held Gorman's
                      > Brigade while McLaws' brigades and others attacked.
                      >
                      > The 15th Mass. monument is just NE of the Locher cabin, on the east
                      > side of Hwy 65. I found the other good place to cross 65 is to
                      > follow
                      > the farm path from the cabin, south to the barn. There is a gate in
                      > the fence at the barn making it easy to get to the road for
                      > crossing.
                      > The original War Dept. tour road is east of and parallels 65 here.
                      > Head north a hundred meters for the 15th Mass. monument. Few people
                      > recognize that tablets and monuments are along this "path."
                      >
                      > I've been too verbose and perhaps stated the obvious, but I hope
                      > this
                      > helps on your tour.
                      >
                      > Ron Dickey
                      >
                      > --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, "G E Mayers" <gerry1952@...>
                      > wrote:
                      >>
                      >> Dear Ron,
                      >>
                      >> Thank you for the excellent suggestion! I will make contact at ANBP
                      >> with one of the rangers to arrange for a copy of that brochure to
                      >> be
                      >> sent.
                      >>
                      >> Is there also a brochure of the NW corner of the West Woods where
                      >> Pelham had his artillery?
                      >>
                      >> Yr. Obt. Svt.
                      >> G E "Gerry" Mayers
                      >>
                      >> To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even on
                      >> one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the Union,
                      >> a
                      >> passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from the
                      >> Almighty
                      >> God. --Anonymous
                      >> ----- Original Message -----
                      >> From: "dickeyr46" <dickeyr46@...>
                      >> To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                      >> Sent: Friday, May 19, 2006 8:03 AM
                      >> Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: re Battlefield off beaten path sites
                      >> and
                      >> question
                      >>
                      >>
                      >> > Gerry,
                      >> >
                      >> > The suggestion of the area around the Locher cabin and the Hauser
                      >> > Ridge are excellent. Do not miss the NW portion of the West Woods
                      >> > where the 1st Minn was greeted with Pelham's artillery as they
                      >> > emeged
                      >> > from the woods. This NW corner tree line appears to be fairly
                      >> > true
                      >> > to
                      >> > the Carmen-Cope maps.
                      >> >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > SPONSORED LINKS Civil war history Civil war battles Civil war
                      >
                      >
                      > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                      > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
                      >
                      > a.. Visit your group "TalkAntietam" on the web.
                      >
                      > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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                      >
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                      >
                    • susansevier2003
                      Ron, Thanks for suggesting the Cornfield trail. Yesterday (Memorial Day weekend) I walked the trail from Autostop 4. It was early Sunday morning -- hazy but
                      Message 10 of 16 , May 29, 2006
                        Ron,

                        Thanks for suggesting the Cornfield trail. Yesterday (Memorial Day
                        weekend) I walked the trail from Autostop 4. It was early Sunday
                        morning -- hazy but sunny; beautiful. As you predicted, I encountered
                        no one, although I did meet a fox, trotting along the northern
                        fenceline, that bounded off into the wheat when it saw me. It's only
                        when one walks the ground that one sees how deceptively contured
                        Miller's fields are. What looks like level ground from the road is
                        really a quirky patchwork of undulations. It would compartmentalize any
                        small-unit action here, the enemy appearing and disappearing from a
                        soldier's view as he moved forward.

                        The trail, after running east, turns north again towards Mansfield
                        Ave/Poffenberger lane. In this vicinity, at "the northwest angle" of
                        the woods and cornfield the artist Frank H. Schell [Battles & Leaders]
                        sketched Confederate wounded, including "a tall, young Georgian with a
                        shattered ankle" sitting next to his dead father. Would these have been
                        members of Colquitt's command?

                        David


                        --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, "dickeyr46" <dickeyr46@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > Gerry,
                        >
                        > The suggestion of the area around the Locher cabin and the Hauser
                        > Ridge are excellent. Do not miss the NW portion of the West Woods
                        > where the 1st Minn was greeted with Pelham's artillery as they emeged
                        > from the woods. This NW corner tree line appears to be fairly true to
                        > the Carmen-Cope maps.
                        >
                        > Here's a suggestion for another easy to get to spot... it is the
                        > northeast corner of the Cornfield. If you get the NPS broucher "The
                        > Cornfield Trail," this location is marked as stop 4. It is easily
                        > reached by walking from Auto Tour Stop 4, north through the Cornfield
                        > using the trail, and then east along the northern Cornfield fence to
                        > where the Cornfield meets the East Woods. This spot trully is a
                        > location of "serenity and sacrifice." This spot is peaceful, with no
                        > vehicle traffic and little foot traffic. Yet, this corner of the
                        > Cornfield equaled or exceeded the violence of the western side where
                        > Gibbons fought. From the initial passing of Duryea's brigade at 6 am,
                        > to the attacks by Hay's Tigers, Hartsuff's men, and Law's Brigade, the
                        > stand by the Penn. Reserves, Ripley and Gordon facing each other, and
                        > finally Tyndale rolling up Colquitt's flank, this corner overlooked 3
                        > hours of back-and-forth sacrifice. This location is also neat in that
                        > most of the states had units in action in this vicinity. This corner
                        > was described as "...dead men literally piled upon and across each
                        > other" by one of Tyndale's regimental commanders. Of note is what you
                        > can't see from here... you can't see Miller's farm house, nor can you
                        > see the West Woods. This is a fantastic spot to appreciate how
                        > restrictive the terrain could be.
                        >
                        > Well, that's a suggestion as a way to appreciate the Cornfield from
                        > other than the "standard" read from Auto Stop 4.
                        >
                        > Ron Dickey
                        >
                        > --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, "G E Mayers" gerry1952@ wrote:
                        > >
                        > > Gang,
                        > >
                        > > In October (October 15th) I will be hosting a tour at Sharpsburg
                        > > (Antietam) battlefield for the Civil War Discussion Group Fall 2006
                        > > Muster. I realize some members of this board are also members of the
                        > > other board.... but this is not a cross posting.
                        > >
                        > > I write with three main requests:
                        > > 1. In addition to the remaining portion of the West Woods between
                        the
                        > > Philadelphia Brigade park and the SR 64 bypass, what other off the
                        > > beaten path areas in the park are there in the area of the Morning
                        > > Phases of the battle that can be visited with needing special
                        > > permission to do so?
                        > >
                        > >
                        >
                      • Thomas Clemens
                        More likely C. M. Douglas brigade from Lawton s Div. Thomas G. Clemens D.A. Professor of History Hagerstown Community College
                        Message 11 of 16 , May 29, 2006
                          More likely C. M. Douglas' brigade from Lawton's Div.

                          Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
                          Professor of History
                          Hagerstown Community College


                          >>> camdensquare@... 05/29/06 8:48 AM >>>
                        • susansevier2003
                          After I posted my first message about Schell, I noticed John M. Priest includes this incident in his Antietam book. Priest says that Frank Schell sketched the
                          Message 12 of 16 , May 30, 2006
                            After I posted my first message about Schell, I noticed John M. Priest
                            includes this incident in his Antietam book. Priest says that Frank
                            Schell sketched the wounded Confederate and his dead father shortly
                            after the artist "crossed the left of the 21 Georgia's former line"
                            (page 167). The 21st GA, part of Trimble's [Walker's] brigade, had
                            been sent forward to shore up Lawton and Ripley's line between Mumma's
                            lane and the Cornfield.




                            --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                            <mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com> , "Thomas Clemens" <clemenst@...>
                            wrote:
                            >
                            > More likely C. M. Douglas' brigade from Lawton's Div.
                            >
                            > Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
                            > Professor of History
                            > Hagerstown Community College
                            >
                            >
                            > >>> camdensquare@... 05/29/06 8:48 AM >>>
                            >




                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • Thomas Clemens
                            Yes that makes sense too. Good. Thomas G. Clemens D.A. Professor of History Hagerstown Community College
                            Message 13 of 16 , May 31, 2006
                              Yes that makes sense too. Good.

                              Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
                              Professor of History
                              Hagerstown Community College


                              >>> camdensquare@... 05/30/06 5:03 PM >>>
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