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Re: [TalkAntietam] corn

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  • Bill & Glenna Jo Christen
    ... While researching the type of corn planting in the fields around Sharpsburg for the Antietam documentary it was determined that the area farmers used the
    Message 1 of 7 , Aug 27, 2001
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      oliverg25@... wrote:

      > Not So!
      > Once the corn is planted a horse never goes into the field.

      While researching the type of corn planting in the fields around Sharpsburg
      for the Antietam documentary it was determined that the area farmers used the
      "mounds spaced evenly apart" technique. That is, the "row's" were evenly
      spaced in all directions. This is thinner than today's typical row planting
      or what some farmer in pennsylvania may have done. The points made about the
      devastation due to the firing bear more weight on the amount of cover.

      Bill Christen
    • oliverg25@hotmail.com
      ... Sharpsburg ... farmers used the ... evenly ... planting ... about the ... cover. ... I will accept your research. But in defense of some farmer in
      Message 2 of 7 , Aug 27, 2001
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        --- In TalkAntietam@y..., Bill & Glenna Jo Christen <gwjchris@r...>
        wrote:
        >
        >
        > oliverg25@h... wrote:
        >
        > > Not So!
        > > Once the corn is planted a horse never goes into the field.
        >
        > While researching the type of corn planting in the fields around
        Sharpsburg
        > for the Antietam documentary it was determined that the area
        farmers used the
        > "mounds spaced evenly apart" technique. That is, the "row's" were
        evenly
        > spaced in all directions. This is thinner than today's typical row
        planting
        > or what some farmer in pennsylvania may have done. The points made
        about the
        > devastation due to the firing bear more weight on the amount of
        cover.
        >
        > Bill Christen


        I will accept your research. But in defense of "some farmer in
        Pennsylvania" might I remind you that the settlers in Sharpsburg came
        from Berks County PENNSYLVANIA. Dunkards are not that much different
        from Amish.

        sorry if my mention of Pennsylvania farmers is distasteful to you. If
        that is the case I will go back to lurking and allow you to continue
        your private conversations.

        Mr. Gamble
      • Bill & Glenna Jo Christen
        ... Mr. Gamble, I meant no offense and apologize nonetheless. I believe that even the simplest observation in regard to historical fact needs to be considered
        Message 3 of 7 , Aug 27, 2001
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          oliverg25@... wrote:

          > -I will accept your research. But in defense of "some farmer in
          > Pennsylvania" might I remind you that the settlers in Sharpsburg came
          > from Berks County PENNSYLVANIA. Dunkards are not that much different
          > from Amish.
          >
          > sorry if my mention of Pennsylvania farmers is distasteful to you.

          Mr. Gamble,

          I meant no offense and apologize nonetheless. I believe that even the
          simplest observation in regard to historical fact needs to be considered in
          relation to primary sources and local interpretation. Here is an example: How
          many farmers living in Sharpsburg and having farms in the vicinity of the two
          major cornfields connected with the battle owed there farming experience to
          ancestors in Berks County? Once we have established that information we then
          would be able to see if indeed those Berks County methods were used in the
          summer of 1862.

          This is off topic so I don't expect to continue this thread. It is also
          beyond my expertise and have nothing more to contribute on that line.

          Many of us who have been on the GDG, ADG, Talk Antietam and the Eastern
          Battlefields DG have learned to expand our reasoning and interpretation based
          on fresh analysis or new ways of seeing and thinking about what has been
          written on the battle...especially some of the fanciful stuff from the time
          of the deaths of the veterans to the writings of those educated in the
          1930-1970s about CW history.

          Bill Christen
        • oliverg25@hotmail.com
          ... I noted you sarcastic tone and I responded to it. ... Eastern ... interpretation based ... been ... the time ... the ... I belong to the GDG, ADG, HDG and
          Message 4 of 7 , Aug 27, 2001
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            --- In TalkAntietam@y..., Bill & Glenna Jo Christen <gwjchris@r...>
            wrote:
            > Mr. Gamble,
            >
            > I meant no offense and apologize nonetheless.

            I noted you sarcastic tone and I responded to it.
            >
            > Many of us who have been on the GDG, ADG, Talk Antietam and the
            Eastern
            > Battlefields DG have learned to expand our reasoning and
            interpretation based
            > on fresh analysis or new ways of seeing and thinking about what has
            been
            > written on the battle...especially some of the fanciful stuff from
            the time
            > of the deaths of the veterans to the writings of those educated in
            the
            > 1930-1970s about CW history.


            I belong to the GDG, ADG, HDG and this group. Mostly I lurk and read
            the archives to gain information.
            I don't post in the HDG as the subjects are way over my head. I am
            not that well educated about English History or the World Wars. But I
            have noticed that those that post are treated with courtesy and
            respect.
            I must say this group seems to be the most clanish. Here, it seems,
            only a select few are allowed to post as they like.

            Anything from outsiders brings ridicule and sarcastic replies like
            yours to me.
            I will therefore not bother you again.

            I would ask if the density of the corn planting in Miller's Field is
            so off topic, why is the inability of someone to read a recipe and
            know the difference between Baking Powder and Baking Soda ON topic?

            O.G.
          • TR Livesey
            Bill, Setting aside the issue about how chewed up the cornfield was...I am still curious about the potential concealment a 19th century Sharpsburg area
            Message 5 of 7 , Aug 28, 2001
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              Bill,

              Setting aside the issue about how chewed up the cornfield was...I
              am still curious about the potential concealment a 19th century
              Sharpsburg area cornfield might offer. Any idea about how far one
              could see into such a cornfield?

              TRL

              Bill & Glenna Jo Christen wrote:
              >
              > oliverg25@... wrote:
              >
              > > Not So!
              > > Once the corn is planted a horse never goes into the field.
              >
              > While researching the type of corn planting in the fields around Sharpsburg
              > for the Antietam documentary it was determined that the area farmers used the
              > "mounds spaced evenly apart" technique. That is, the "row's" were evenly
              > spaced in all directions. This is thinner than today's typical row planting
              > or what some farmer in pennsylvania may have done. The points made about the
              > devastation due to the firing bear more weight on the amount of cover.
              >
              > Bill Christen
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
            • Bill & Glenna Jo Christen
              ... TR, From what I understand mature corn could range from five to eight feet tall in the mid-1860s...depending on variety, growing conditions, etc. Not all
              Message 6 of 7 , Aug 30, 2001
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                TR Livesey wrote:

                > I am still curious about the potential concealment a 19th century
                > Sharpsburg area cornfield might offer. Any idea about how far one
                > could see into such a cornfield?

                TR,

                From what I understand mature corn could range from five to eight feet tall in the
                mid-1860s...depending on variety, growing conditions, etc. Not all farmers planted
                in the evenly spaced mounds. I would suspect the flags and riffle with bayonets
                could be seen most of the time. If we were giving this a wargaming factor I would
                at a "shift" for partial concealment, but no modifier for protection. We did some
                filming in a tall crop of mounded corn in Michigan. It did obscure the soldiers
                from view once they were six feet into the corn.

                This sounds like a useful experimental anthropology problem for which enactors
                would be useful.

                Bill









                >
                > >
                > > oliverg25@... wrote:
                > >
                > > > Not So!
                > > > Once the corn is planted a horse never goes into the field.
                > >
                > > While researching the type of corn planting in the fields around Sharpsburg
                > > for the Antietam documentary it was determined that the area farmers used the
                > > "mounds spaced evenly apart" technique. That is, the "row's" were evenly
                > > spaced in all directions. This is thinner than today's typical row planting
                > > or what some farmer in pennsylvania may have done. The points made about the
                > > devastation due to the firing bear more weight on the amount of cover.
                > >
                > > Bill Christen
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

                --
                gwjchris@...
                Visit our web site, "The Curiosity Shop"
                http://www.rust.net/~gwjchris/
              • TR Livesey
                Bill, Thanks - I think that is exactly what I was looking for. I would agree that I can t see corn offering protection; then again, I am only interested in
                Message 7 of 7 , Aug 30, 2001
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                  Bill,

                  Thanks - I think that is exactly what
                  I was looking for.

                  I would agree that I can't see corn
                  offering protection; then again,
                  I am only interested in concealment.

                  Based on your comments - and other
                  opinions offered - I will continue
                  to assume that corn pretty much
                  blocks line of sight. A little
                  off topic, but of interest to
                  me.

                  TRL

                  Bill & Glenna Jo Christen wrote:
                  >
                  > TR Livesey wrote:
                  >
                  > > I am still curious about the potential concealment a 19th century
                  > > Sharpsburg area cornfield might offer. Any idea about how far one
                  > > could see into such a cornfield?
                  >
                  > TR,
                  >
                  > >From what I understand mature corn could range from five to eight feet tall in the
                  > mid-1860s...depending on variety, growing conditions, etc. Not all farmers planted
                  > in the evenly spaced mounds. I would suspect the flags and riffle with bayonets
                  > could be seen most of the time. If we were giving this a wargaming factor I would
                  > at a "shift" for partial concealment, but no modifier for protection. We did some
                  > filming in a tall crop of mounded corn in Michigan. It did obscure the soldiers
                  > from view once they were six feet into the corn.
                  >
                  > This sounds like a useful experimental anthropology problem for which enactors
                  > would be useful.
                  >
                  > Bill
                  >
                  > >
                  > > >
                  > > > oliverg25@... wrote:
                  > > >
                  > > > > Not So!
                  > > > > Once the corn is planted a horse never goes into the field.
                  > > >
                  > > > While researching the type of corn planting in the fields around Sharpsburg
                  > > > for the Antietam documentary it was determined that the area farmers used the
                  > > > "mounds spaced evenly apart" technique. That is, the "row's" were evenly
                  > > > spaced in all directions. This is thinner than today's typical row planting
                  > > > or what some farmer in pennsylvania may have done. The points made about the
                  > > > devastation due to the firing bear more weight on the amount of cover.
                  > > >
                  > > > Bill Christen
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                  >
                  > --
                  > gwjchris@...
                  > Visit our web site, "The Curiosity Shop"
                  > http://www.rust.net/~gwjchris/
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
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