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re Battlefield off beaten path sites and question

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  • G E Mayers
    Gang, In October (October 15th) I will be hosting a tour at Sharpsburg (Antietam) battlefield for the Civil War Discussion Group Fall 2006 Muster. I realize
    Message 1 of 16 , May 11, 2006
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      Gang,

      In October (October 15th) I will be hosting a tour at Sharpsburg
      (Antietam) battlefield for the Civil War Discussion Group Fall 2006
      Muster. I realize some members of this board are also members of the
      other board.... but this is not a cross posting.

      I write with three main requests:
      1. In addition to the remaining portion of the West Woods between the
      Philadelphia Brigade park and the SR 64 bypass, what other off the
      beaten path areas in the park are there in the area of the Morning
      Phases of the battle that can be visited with needing special
      permission to do so?

      2. Which of the rangers at the park would be best choices for me to
      contact with respects to obtaining information on question no. 1 as
      well as the entire area of Burnside's Assault in the afternoon of
      September 17th?

      3. Does anyone know if there is a brochure or other material available
      for the Otto Farm Trail? How difficult or challenging is the trail to
      hike? The last time I was on the ground of the Otto Farm was during
      the last Muster of the old ADG a few years ago. Realizing that a lot
      of work has been done over the last couple years in that sector, any
      assistance with trail routes, etc is much appreciated.

      Yr. Obt. Svt.
      G E "Gerry" Mayers

      To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even on
      one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the Union, a
      passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from the Almighty
      God. --Anonymous
    • RoteBaron@comcast.net
      I picked up the new brochure for the Otto Farm trail in September. The trail terrain is now easily walkable. Of course it has some modest climbs and descents,
      Message 2 of 16 , May 12, 2006
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        I picked up the new brochure for the Otto Farm trail in September. The trail terrain is now easily walkable. Of course it has some modest climbs and descents, and it is a decent walk from the parkng lot to the southwest end of the cornfield.

        Let me know if I can assist in anything regarding the Antietam muster.

        I've been off CWDG for two months and have tried to re-subscibe via my new email. I'll try again today

        Tom Shay

        -------------- Original message --------------
        From: "G E Mayers" <gerry1952@...>

        > Gang,
        >
        > In October (October 15th) I will be hosting a tour at Sharpsburg
        > (Antietam) battlefield for the Civil War Discussion Group Fall 2006
        > Muster. I realize some members of this board are also members of the
        > other board.... but this is not a cross posting.
        >
        > I write with three main requests:
        > 1. In addition to the remaining portion of the West Woods between the
        > Philadelphia Brigade park and the SR 64 bypass, what other off the
        > beaten path areas in the park are there in the area of the Morning
        > Phases of the battle that can be visited with needing special
        > permission to do so?
        >
        > 2. Which of the rangers at the park would be best choices for me to
        > contact with respects to obtaining information on question no. 1 as
        > well as the entire area of Burnside's Assault in the afternoon of
        > September 17th?
        >
        > 3. Does anyone know if there is a brochure or other material available
        > for the Otto Farm Trail? How difficult or challenging is the trail to
        > hike? The last time I was on the ground of the Otto Farm was during
        > the last Muster of the old ADG a few years ago. Realizing that a lot
        > of work has been done over the last couple years in that sector, any
        > assistance with trail routes, etc is much appreciated.
        >
        > Yr. Obt. Svt.
        > G E "Gerry" Mayers
        >
        > To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even on
        > one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the Union, a
        > passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from the Almighty
        > God. --Anonymous
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Stephen Recker
        1. Nicodemus Heights and Hauser Ridge require permission of the owners, but you can go a bit west of the Locher cabin without it and see some great spots
        Message 3 of 16 , May 12, 2006
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          1. Nicodemus Heights and Hauser Ridge require permission of the owners,
          but you can go a bit west of the Locher cabin without it and see some
          great spots relative to the attack on the 15th Mass. The space in
          between Philadelphia Brigade Park and Rt. 65 is open to the public.
          I've got a neat old photo of Jackson's rocks back there without the
          woods. The north side of the J. Poffenberger Farm where Doubleday had
          some cannon is a neat spot and is open. Brian Baracz took us there last
          year.

          2. Brian just did a great walking tour of the east side of Burnside
          Bridge. I would talk to him.

          3. Yes, there is a nice brochure of this trail. You can get it at the
          visitor center desk. The hike is pretty challenging. There are a few
          variations for the hearty few. You can start with a walk down to
          Snavely Ford and then follow Rodman's path all the way through the
          woods to the position of the 12th Ohio where you could pick up the park
          trail. You could end with a walk up to the 9th New York. I have done
          both of these with Brian, Keith Snyder and Mike Gamble, all park
          rangers who I am sure would be glad to point you to some great stories,
          maps and photos.

          Stephen

          On Thursday, May 11, 2006, at 10:06 PM, G E Mayers wrote:

          > 1. In addition to the remaining portion of the West Woods between the
          > Philadelphia Brigade park and the SR 64 bypass, what other off the
          > beaten path areas in the park are there in the area of the Morning
          > Phases of the battle that can be visited with needing special
          > permission to do so?
          >
          > 2. Which of the rangers at the park would be best choices for me to
          > contact with respects to obtaining information on question no. 1 as
          > well as the entire area of Burnside's Assault in the afternoon of
          > September 17th?
          >
          > 3. Does anyone know if there is a brochure or other material available
          > for the Otto Farm Trail? How difficult or challenging is the trail to
          > hike? The last time I was on the ground of the Otto Farm was during
          > the last Muster of the old ADG a few years ago. Realizing that a lot
          > of work has been done over the last couple years in that sector, any
          > assistance with trail routes, etc is much appreciated.
        • G E Mayers
          Thanks Stephen. Re the options in Question No. 1, how would I get past the Locher cabin, etc safely? And also how would I find the spot where Doubleday had
          Message 4 of 16 , May 12, 2006
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            Thanks Stephen. Re the options in Question No. 1, how would I get past
            the Locher cabin, etc safely? And also how would I find the spot where
            Doubleday had some of his artillery?

            Yr. Obt. Svt.
            G E "Gerry" Mayers

            To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even on
            one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the Union, a
            passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from the Almighty
            God. --Anonymous
            ----- Original Message -----
            From: "Stephen Recker" <recker@...>
            To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Friday, May 12, 2006 8:12 AM
            Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] re Battlefield off beaten path sites and
            question


            > 1. Nicodemus Heights and Hauser Ridge require permission of the
            > owners,
            > but you can go a bit west of the Locher cabin without it and see
            > some
            > great spots relative to the attack on the 15th Mass. The space in
            > between Philadelphia Brigade Park and Rt. 65 is open to the public.
            > I've got a neat old photo of Jackson's rocks back there without the
            > woods. The north side of the J. Poffenberger Farm where Doubleday
            > had
            > some cannon is a neat spot and is open. Brian Baracz took us there
            > last
            > year.
            >
            > 2. Brian just did a great walking tour of the east side of Burnside
            > Bridge. I would talk to him.
            >
            > 3. Yes, there is a nice brochure of this trail. You can get it at
            > the
            > visitor center desk. The hike is pretty challenging. There are a few
            > variations for the hearty few. You can start with a walk down to
            > Snavely Ford and then follow Rodman's path all the way through the
            > woods to the position of the 12th Ohio where you could pick up the
            > park
            > trail. You could end with a walk up to the 9th New York. I have done
            > both of these with Brian, Keith Snyder and Mike Gamble, all park
            > rangers who I am sure would be glad to point you to some great
            > stories,
            > maps and photos.
            >
            > Stephen
            >
            > On Thursday, May 11, 2006, at 10:06 PM, G E Mayers wrote:
            >
            >> 1. In addition to the remaining portion of the West Woods between
            >> the
            >> Philadelphia Brigade park and the SR 64 bypass, what other off the
            >> beaten path areas in the park are there in the area of the Morning
            >> Phases of the battle that can be visited with needing special
            >> permission to do so?
            >>
            >> 2. Which of the rangers at the park would be best choices for me to
            >> contact with respects to obtaining information on question no. 1 as
            >> well as the entire area of Burnside's Assault in the afternoon of
            >> September 17th?
            >>
            >> 3. Does anyone know if there is a brochure or other material
            >> available
            >> for the Otto Farm Trail? How difficult or challenging is the trail
            >> to
            >> hike? The last time I was on the ground of the Otto Farm was during
            >> the last Muster of the old ADG a few years ago. Realizing that a
            >> lot
            >> of work has been done over the last couple years in that sector,
            >> any
            >> assistance with trail routes, etc is much appreciated.
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > SPONSORED LINKS Civil war history Civil war battles Civil war
            >
            >
            > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
            > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
            >
            > a.. Visit your group "TalkAntietam" on the web.
            >
            > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
            > TalkAntietam-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
            >
            > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
            > Service.
            >
            >
            > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
            >
            >
          • G E Mayers
            Dear Tom; Thank you for the note. If you know of other locations sort of off the beaten track, please advise. The CWDG Fall Muster is a combination Gettysburg
            Message 5 of 16 , May 12, 2006
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              Dear Tom;

              Thank you for the note. If you know of other locations sort of off the
              beaten track, please advise.

              The CWDG Fall Muster is a combination Gettysburg muster (Friday and
              Saturday) and a Sharpsburg muster (Sunday), the weekend of October
              13-15. Allan Shikhvarg, the CWDG Fall Muster Meister for Life, has
              posted the schedule at the following link:

              http://www.cwdgonline.org/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&p=15036#15036

              Contact Allan directly if you have any questions or you can respond
              via the online board.

              Yr. Obt. Svt.
              G E "Gerry" Mayers

              To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even on
              one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the Union, a
              passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from the Almighty
              God. --Anonymous
              ----- Original Message -----
              From: <RoteBaron@...>
              To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Friday, May 12, 2006 7:49 AM
              Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] re Battlefield off beaten path sites and
              question


              >I picked up the new brochure for the Otto Farm trail in September.
              >The trail terrain is now easily walkable. Of course it has some
              >modest climbs and descents, and it is a decent walk from the parkng
              >lot to the southwest end of the cornfield.
              >
              > Let me know if I can assist in anything regarding the Antietam
              > muster.
              >
              > I've been off CWDG for two months and have tried to re-subscibe via
              > my new email. I'll try again today
              >
              > Tom Shay
              >
              > -------------- Original message --------------
              > From: "G E Mayers" <gerry1952@...>
              >
              >> Gang,
              >>
              >> In October (October 15th) I will be hosting a tour at Sharpsburg
              >> (Antietam) battlefield for the Civil War Discussion Group Fall 2006
              >> Muster. I realize some members of this board are also members of
              >> the
              >> other board.... but this is not a cross posting.
              >>
              >> I write with three main requests:
              >> 1. In addition to the remaining portion of the West Woods between
              >> the
              >> Philadelphia Brigade park and the SR 64 bypass, what other off the
              >> beaten path areas in the park are there in the area of the Morning
              >> Phases of the battle that can be visited with needing special
              >> permission to do so?
              >>
              >> 2. Which of the rangers at the park would be best choices for me to
              >> contact with respects to obtaining information on question no. 1 as
              >> well as the entire area of Burnside's Assault in the afternoon of
              >> September 17th?
              >>
              >> 3. Does anyone know if there is a brochure or other material
              >> available
              >> for the Otto Farm Trail? How difficult or challenging is the trail
              >> to
              >> hike? The last time I was on the ground of the Otto Farm was during
              >> the last Muster of the old ADG a few years ago. Realizing that a
              >> lot
              >> of work has been done over the last couple years in that sector,
              >> any
              >> assistance with trail routes, etc is much appreciated.
              >>
              >> Yr. Obt. Svt.
              >> G E "Gerry" Mayers
              >>
              >> To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even on
              >> one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the Union,
              >> a
              >> passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from the
              >> Almighty
              >> God. --Anonymous
              >>
              >>
              >>
              >>
              >>
              >>
              >>
              >> Yahoo! Groups Links
              >>
              >>
              >>
              >>
              >>
              >>
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > SPONSORED LINKS Civil war history Civil war battles Civil war
              >
              >
              > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
              > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
              >
              > a.. Visit your group "TalkAntietam" on the web.
              >
              > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
              > TalkAntietam-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
              >
              > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
              > Service.
              >
              >
              > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
              >
              >
            • RoteBaron@comcast.net
              I finally manage to re-subscribe to CWDG this morning! I have hiked past the Locher Cabin up to Hauser Ridge many times with rangers. Much of the terrain is
              Message 6 of 16 , May 12, 2006
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                I finally manage to re-subscribe to CWDG this morning!

                I have hiked past the Locher Cabin up to Hauser Ridge many times with rangers. Much of the terrain is grassy with some rock outcroppings, then there is the climb to top of the ridge. Obviously crops along ridge can vary by season.

                The "Rock Ledge" is another less-visited site, which I documented on my CWRT website: http://home.comcast.net/~schuylkillcwrt/

                By Doubleday gun positions, are you referring to the J. Poffenberger Hill location? The farm is now open and easily accessible.

                There are plenty of other sites to visit, depanding on itinerary and time available.

                Tom Shay
                -------------- Original message --------------
                From: "G E Mayers" <gerry1952@...>

                > Dear Tom;
                >
                > Thank you for the note. If you know of other locations sort of off the
                > beaten track, please advise.
                >
                > The CWDG Fall Muster is a combination Gettysburg muster (Friday and
                > Saturday) and a Sharpsburg muster (Sunday), the weekend of October
                > 13-15. Allan Shikhvarg, the CWDG Fall Muster Meister for Life, has
                > posted the schedule at the following link:
                >
                > http://www.cwdgonline.org/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&p=15036#15036
                >
                > Contact Allan directly if you have any questions or you can respond
                > via the online board.
                >
                > Yr. Obt. Svt.
                > G E "Gerry" Mayers
                >
                > To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even on
                > one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the Union, a
                > passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from the Almighty
                > God. --Anonymous
                > ----- Original Message -----
                > From:
                > To:
                > Sent: Friday, May 12, 2006 7:49 AM
                > Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] re Battlefield off beaten path sites and
                > question
                >
                >
                > >I picked up the new brochure for the Otto Farm trail in September.
                > >The trail terrain is now easily walkable. Of course it has some
                > >modest climbs and descents, and it is a decent walk from the parkng
                > >lot to the southwest end of the cornfield.
                > >
                > > Let me know if I can assist in anything regarding the Antietam
                > > muster.
                > >
                > > I've been off CWDG for two months and have tried to re-subscibe via
                > > my new email. I'll try again today
                > >
                > > Tom Shay
                > >
                > > -------------- Original message --------------
                > > From: "G E Mayers"
                > >
                > >> Gang,
                > >>
                > >> In October (October 15th) I will be hosting a tour at Sharpsburg
                > >> (Antietam) battlefield for the Civil War Discussion Group Fall 2006
                > >> Muster. I realize some members of this board are also members of
                > >> the
                > >> other board.... but this is not a cross posting.
                > >>
                > >> I write with three main requests:
                > >> 1. In addition to the remaining portion of the West Woods between
                > >> the
                > >> Philadelphia Brigade park and the SR 64 bypass, what other off the
                > >> beaten path areas in the park are there in the area of the Morning
                > >> Phases of the battle that can be visited with needing special
                > >> permission to do so?
                > >>
                > >> 2. Which of the rangers at the park would be best choices for me to
                > >> contact with respects to obtaining information on question no. 1 as
                > >> well as the entire area of Burnside's Assault in the afternoon of
                > >> September 17th?
                > >>
                > >> 3. Does anyone know if there is a brochure or other material
                > >> available
                > >> for the Otto Farm Trail? How difficult or challenging is the trail
                > >> to
                > >> hike? The last time I was on the ground of the Otto Farm was during
                > >> the last Muster of the old ADG a few years ago. Realizing that a
                > >> lot
                > >> of work has been done over the last couple years in that sector,
                > >> any
                > >> assistance with trail routes, etc is much appreciated.
                > >>
                > >> Yr. Obt. Svt.
                > >> G E "Gerry" Mayers
                > >>
                > >> To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even on
                > >> one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the Union,
                > >> a
                > >> passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from the
                > >> Almighty
                > >> God. --Anonymous
                > >>
                > >>
                > >>
                > >>
                > >>
                > >>
                > >>
                > >> Yahoo! Groups Links
                > >>
                > >>
                > >>
                > >>
                > >>
                > >>
                > >
                > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > SPONSORED LINKS Civil war history Civil war battles Civil war
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
                > >
                > > a.. Visit your group "TalkAntietam" on the web.
                > >
                > > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                > > TalkAntietam-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                > >
                > > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                > > Service.
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                > >
                > >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >

                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Stephen Recker
                I ve got an old photo of the Rocky Ledge from about 1900 that you can use. The view is wide open, not a shrub in sight. Stephen
                Message 7 of 16 , May 12, 2006
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                  I've got an old photo of the Rocky Ledge from about 1900 that you can
                  use. The view is wide open, not a shrub in sight.

                  Stephen

                  On Friday, May 12, 2006, at 09:07 AM, RoteBaron@... wrote:

                  > The "Rock Ledge" is another less-visited site, which I documented on
                  > my CWRT website: http://home.comcast.net/~schuylkillcwrt/
                • G E Mayers
                  That would be great Stephen! Please contact me privately with a copy of the photo, if you can send it electronically. Yr. Obt. Svt. G E Gerry Mayers To Be A
                  Message 8 of 16 , May 12, 2006
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                    That would be great Stephen! Please contact me privately with a copy
                    of the photo, if you can send it electronically.

                    Yr. Obt. Svt.
                    G E "Gerry" Mayers

                    To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even on
                    one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the Union, a
                    passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from the Almighty
                    God. --Anonymous
                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: "Stephen Recker" <recker@...>
                    To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                    Sent: Friday, May 12, 2006 9:38 AM
                    Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] re Battlefield off beaten path sites and
                    question


                    > I've got an old photo of the Rocky Ledge from about 1900 that you
                    > can
                    > use. The view is wide open, not a shrub in sight.
                    >
                    > Stephen
                    >
                    > On Friday, May 12, 2006, at 09:07 AM, RoteBaron@... wrote:
                    >
                    >> The "Rock Ledge" is another less-visited site, which I documented
                    >> on
                    >> my CWRT website: http://home.comcast.net/~schuylkillcwrt/
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                    > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
                    >
                    > a.. Visit your group "TalkAntietam" on the web.
                    >
                    > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                    > TalkAntietam-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                    >
                    > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                    > Service.
                    >
                    >
                    > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                    >
                    >
                  • dickeyr46
                    Gerry, The suggestion of the area around the Locher cabin and the Hauser Ridge are excellent. Do not miss the NW portion of the West Woods where the 1st Minn
                    Message 9 of 16 , May 19, 2006
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                      Gerry,

                      The suggestion of the area around the Locher cabin and the Hauser
                      Ridge are excellent. Do not miss the NW portion of the West Woods
                      where the 1st Minn was greeted with Pelham's artillery as they emeged
                      from the woods. This NW corner tree line appears to be fairly true to
                      the Carmen-Cope maps.

                      Here's a suggestion for another easy to get to spot... it is the
                      northeast corner of the Cornfield. If you get the NPS broucher "The
                      Cornfield Trail," this location is marked as stop 4. It is easily
                      reached by walking from Auto Tour Stop 4, north through the Cornfield
                      using the trail, and then east along the northern Cornfield fence to
                      where the Cornfield meets the East Woods. This spot trully is a
                      location of "serenity and sacrifice." This spot is peaceful, with no
                      vehicle traffic and little foot traffic. Yet, this corner of the
                      Cornfield equaled or exceeded the violence of the western side where
                      Gibbons fought. From the initial passing of Duryea's brigade at 6 am,
                      to the attacks by Hay's Tigers, Hartsuff's men, and Law's Brigade, the
                      stand by the Penn. Reserves, Ripley and Gordon facing each other, and
                      finally Tyndale rolling up Colquitt's flank, this corner overlooked 3
                      hours of back-and-forth sacrifice. This location is also neat in that
                      most of the states had units in action in this vicinity. This corner
                      was described as "...dead men literally piled upon and across each
                      other" by one of Tyndale's regimental commanders. Of note is what you
                      can't see from here... you can't see Miller's farm house, nor can you
                      see the West Woods. This is a fantastic spot to appreciate how
                      restrictive the terrain could be.

                      Well, that's a suggestion as a way to appreciate the Cornfield from
                      other than the "standard" read from Auto Stop 4.

                      Ron Dickey

                      --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, "G E Mayers" <gerry1952@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Gang,
                      >
                      > In October (October 15th) I will be hosting a tour at Sharpsburg
                      > (Antietam) battlefield for the Civil War Discussion Group Fall 2006
                      > Muster. I realize some members of this board are also members of the
                      > other board.... but this is not a cross posting.
                      >
                      > I write with three main requests:
                      > 1. In addition to the remaining portion of the West Woods between the
                      > Philadelphia Brigade park and the SR 64 bypass, what other off the
                      > beaten path areas in the park are there in the area of the Morning
                      > Phases of the battle that can be visited with needing special
                      > permission to do so?
                      >
                      >
                    • G E Mayers
                      Dear Ron, Thank you for the excellent suggestion! I will make contact at ANBP with one of the rangers to arrange for a copy of that brochure to be sent. Is
                      Message 10 of 16 , May 19, 2006
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                        Dear Ron,

                        Thank you for the excellent suggestion! I will make contact at ANBP
                        with one of the rangers to arrange for a copy of that brochure to be
                        sent.

                        Is there also a brochure of the NW corner of the West Woods where
                        Pelham had his artillery?

                        Yr. Obt. Svt.
                        G E "Gerry" Mayers

                        To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even on
                        one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the Union, a
                        passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from the Almighty
                        God. --Anonymous
                        ----- Original Message -----
                        From: "dickeyr46" <dickeyr46@...>
                        To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                        Sent: Friday, May 19, 2006 8:03 AM
                        Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: re Battlefield off beaten path sites and
                        question


                        > Gerry,
                        >
                        > The suggestion of the area around the Locher cabin and the Hauser
                        > Ridge are excellent. Do not miss the NW portion of the West Woods
                        > where the 1st Minn was greeted with Pelham's artillery as they
                        > emeged
                        > from the woods. This NW corner tree line appears to be fairly true
                        > to
                        > the Carmen-Cope maps.
                        >
                        > Here's a suggestion for another easy to get to spot... it is the
                        > northeast corner of the Cornfield. If you get the NPS broucher "The
                        > Cornfield Trail," this location is marked as stop 4. It is easily
                        > reached by walking from Auto Tour Stop 4, north through the
                        > Cornfield
                        > using the trail, and then east along the northern Cornfield fence to
                        > where the Cornfield meets the East Woods. This spot trully is a
                        > location of "serenity and sacrifice." This spot is peaceful, with no
                        > vehicle traffic and little foot traffic. Yet, this corner of the
                        > Cornfield equaled or exceeded the violence of the western side where
                        > Gibbons fought. From the initial passing of Duryea's brigade at 6
                        > am,
                        > to the attacks by Hay's Tigers, Hartsuff's men, and Law's Brigade,
                        > the
                        > stand by the Penn. Reserves, Ripley and Gordon facing each other,
                        > and
                        > finally Tyndale rolling up Colquitt's flank, this corner overlooked
                        > 3
                        > hours of back-and-forth sacrifice. This location is also neat in
                        > that
                        > most of the states had units in action in this vicinity. This corner
                        > was described as "...dead men literally piled upon and across each
                        > other" by one of Tyndale's regimental commanders. Of note is what
                        > you
                        > can't see from here... you can't see Miller's farm house, nor can
                        > you
                        > see the West Woods. This is a fantastic spot to appreciate how
                        > restrictive the terrain could be.
                        >
                        > Well, that's a suggestion as a way to appreciate the Cornfield from
                        > other than the "standard" read from Auto Stop 4.
                        >
                        > Ron Dickey
                        >
                        > --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, "G E Mayers" <gerry1952@...>
                        > wrote:
                        >>
                        >> Gang,
                        >>
                        >> In October (October 15th) I will be hosting a tour at Sharpsburg
                        >> (Antietam) battlefield for the Civil War Discussion Group Fall 2006
                        >> Muster. I realize some members of this board are also members of
                        >> the
                        >> other board.... but this is not a cross posting.
                        >>
                        >> I write with three main requests:
                        >> 1. In addition to the remaining portion of the West Woods between
                        >> the
                        >> Philadelphia Brigade park and the SR 64 bypass, what other off the
                        >> beaten path areas in the park are there in the area of the Morning
                        >> Phases of the battle that can be visited with needing special
                        >> permission to do so?
                        >>
                        >>
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > SPONSORED LINKS Civil war history Civil war battles Civil war
                        >
                        >
                        > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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                        >
                        > a.. Visit your group "TalkAntietam" on the web.
                        >
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                      • dickeyr46
                        Gerry, I ve never seen a brochure that covers the terrain west of Hwy 65. Perhaps some of the other members might know of one. Map 5 of the Battle Maps Brian
                        Message 11 of 16 , May 19, 2006
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                          Gerry,

                          I've never seen a brochure that covers the terrain west of Hwy 65.
                          Perhaps some of the other members might know of one. Map 5 of the
                          Battle Maps Brian Downey has posted on AoTW,
                          http://aotw.org/maps.php?map_number=5, is excellent. It clearly shows
                          the 1st Minn and the 13th Vir, which was posted from Early's Brigade
                          as support for the horse artillery. Another good source of what the
                          terrain is like is the map Todd Livsey did,
                          http://www.westwoodgalleries.com/antietam/maps/viewmaps.html. He has
                          overlaid the 1862 vegetation and roads with white lines depicting the
                          modern roads. Todd has also marked the park boundary in purple. Both
                          of these maps help.

                          If I were drawing a map, this is what I'd do. From the Dunker Church,
                          walk west out Confederate Ave. past the 34th NY and 125th PA
                          monuments. Carefully cross Hwy 65 bypass and continue west along the
                          dirt park road about 200 meters. This should put you at a small tree
                          line running N and S. Head N along the line. It is a bit rough... rock
                          out croppings. Hauser Ridge rises to your left and there is open
                          "pasture" to your right. You'll see the Locher barn first and then the
                          cabin to the right. They are marked as A. Poffenberger on most maps.
                          The barn is visible from Hwy 65; the cabin is not because of
                          vegetation. Continue NNW for a couple of hundred more meters. It is
                          amazing how the vegetaion and terrain reveal themselves. This area is
                          where Grigsby's men and the artillery stopped and held Gorman's
                          Brigade while McLaws' brigades and others attacked.

                          The 15th Mass. monument is just NE of the Locher cabin, on the east
                          side of Hwy 65. I found the other good place to cross 65 is to follow
                          the farm path from the cabin, south to the barn. There is a gate in
                          the fence at the barn making it easy to get to the road for crossing.
                          The original War Dept. tour road is east of and parallels 65 here.
                          Head north a hundred meters for the 15th Mass. monument. Few people
                          recognize that tablets and monuments are along this "path."

                          I've been too verbose and perhaps stated the obvious, but I hope this
                          helps on your tour.

                          Ron Dickey

                          --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, "G E Mayers" <gerry1952@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > Dear Ron,
                          >
                          > Thank you for the excellent suggestion! I will make contact at ANBP
                          > with one of the rangers to arrange for a copy of that brochure to be
                          > sent.
                          >
                          > Is there also a brochure of the NW corner of the West Woods where
                          > Pelham had his artillery?
                          >
                          > Yr. Obt. Svt.
                          > G E "Gerry" Mayers
                          >
                          > To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even on
                          > one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the Union, a
                          > passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from the Almighty
                          > God. --Anonymous
                          > ----- Original Message -----
                          > From: "dickeyr46" <dickeyr46@...>
                          > To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                          > Sent: Friday, May 19, 2006 8:03 AM
                          > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: re Battlefield off beaten path sites and
                          > question
                          >
                          >
                          > > Gerry,
                          > >
                          > > The suggestion of the area around the Locher cabin and the Hauser
                          > > Ridge are excellent. Do not miss the NW portion of the West Woods
                          > > where the 1st Minn was greeted with Pelham's artillery as they
                          > > emeged
                          > > from the woods. This NW corner tree line appears to be fairly true
                          > > to
                          > > the Carmen-Cope maps.
                          > >
                        • G E Mayers
                          Dear Ron, Not at all. Thank you for your help. Yr. Obt. Svt. G E Gerry Mayers To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even on one s
                          Message 12 of 16 , May 22, 2006
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                            Dear Ron,

                            Not at all. Thank you for your help.

                            Yr. Obt. Svt.
                            G E "Gerry" Mayers

                            To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even on
                            one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the Union, a
                            passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from the Almighty
                            God. --Anonymous
                            ----- Original Message -----
                            From: "dickeyr46" <dickeyr46@...>
                            To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                            Sent: Friday, May 19, 2006 11:19 AM
                            Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: re Battlefield off beaten path sites and
                            question


                            > Gerry,
                            >
                            > I've never seen a brochure that covers the terrain west of Hwy 65.
                            > Perhaps some of the other members might know of one. Map 5 of the
                            > Battle Maps Brian Downey has posted on AoTW,
                            > http://aotw.org/maps.php?map_number=5, is excellent. It clearly
                            > shows
                            > the 1st Minn and the 13th Vir, which was posted from Early's Brigade
                            > as support for the horse artillery. Another good source of what the
                            > terrain is like is the map Todd Livsey did,
                            > http://www.westwoodgalleries.com/antietam/maps/viewmaps.html. He has
                            > overlaid the 1862 vegetation and roads with white lines depicting
                            > the
                            > modern roads. Todd has also marked the park boundary in purple. Both
                            > of these maps help.
                            >
                            > If I were drawing a map, this is what I'd do. From the Dunker
                            > Church,
                            > walk west out Confederate Ave. past the 34th NY and 125th PA
                            > monuments. Carefully cross Hwy 65 bypass and continue west along the
                            > dirt park road about 200 meters. This should put you at a small tree
                            > line running N and S. Head N along the line. It is a bit rough...
                            > rock
                            > out croppings. Hauser Ridge rises to your left and there is open
                            > "pasture" to your right. You'll see the Locher barn first and then
                            > the
                            > cabin to the right. They are marked as A. Poffenberger on most maps.
                            > The barn is visible from Hwy 65; the cabin is not because of
                            > vegetation. Continue NNW for a couple of hundred more meters. It is
                            > amazing how the vegetaion and terrain reveal themselves. This area
                            > is
                            > where Grigsby's men and the artillery stopped and held Gorman's
                            > Brigade while McLaws' brigades and others attacked.
                            >
                            > The 15th Mass. monument is just NE of the Locher cabin, on the east
                            > side of Hwy 65. I found the other good place to cross 65 is to
                            > follow
                            > the farm path from the cabin, south to the barn. There is a gate in
                            > the fence at the barn making it easy to get to the road for
                            > crossing.
                            > The original War Dept. tour road is east of and parallels 65 here.
                            > Head north a hundred meters for the 15th Mass. monument. Few people
                            > recognize that tablets and monuments are along this "path."
                            >
                            > I've been too verbose and perhaps stated the obvious, but I hope
                            > this
                            > helps on your tour.
                            >
                            > Ron Dickey
                            >
                            > --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, "G E Mayers" <gerry1952@...>
                            > wrote:
                            >>
                            >> Dear Ron,
                            >>
                            >> Thank you for the excellent suggestion! I will make contact at ANBP
                            >> with one of the rangers to arrange for a copy of that brochure to
                            >> be
                            >> sent.
                            >>
                            >> Is there also a brochure of the NW corner of the West Woods where
                            >> Pelham had his artillery?
                            >>
                            >> Yr. Obt. Svt.
                            >> G E "Gerry" Mayers
                            >>
                            >> To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even on
                            >> one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the Union,
                            >> a
                            >> passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from the
                            >> Almighty
                            >> God. --Anonymous
                            >> ----- Original Message -----
                            >> From: "dickeyr46" <dickeyr46@...>
                            >> To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                            >> Sent: Friday, May 19, 2006 8:03 AM
                            >> Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: re Battlefield off beaten path sites
                            >> and
                            >> question
                            >>
                            >>
                            >> > Gerry,
                            >> >
                            >> > The suggestion of the area around the Locher cabin and the Hauser
                            >> > Ridge are excellent. Do not miss the NW portion of the West Woods
                            >> > where the 1st Minn was greeted with Pelham's artillery as they
                            >> > emeged
                            >> > from the woods. This NW corner tree line appears to be fairly
                            >> > true
                            >> > to
                            >> > the Carmen-Cope maps.
                            >> >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > SPONSORED LINKS Civil war history Civil war battles Civil war
                            >
                            >
                            > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                            > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
                            >
                            > a.. Visit your group "TalkAntietam" on the web.
                            >
                            > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                            > TalkAntietam-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                            >
                            > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                            > Service.
                            >
                            >
                            > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                            >
                            >
                          • susansevier2003
                            Ron, Thanks for suggesting the Cornfield trail. Yesterday (Memorial Day weekend) I walked the trail from Autostop 4. It was early Sunday morning -- hazy but
                            Message 13 of 16 , May 29, 2006
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                              Ron,

                              Thanks for suggesting the Cornfield trail. Yesterday (Memorial Day
                              weekend) I walked the trail from Autostop 4. It was early Sunday
                              morning -- hazy but sunny; beautiful. As you predicted, I encountered
                              no one, although I did meet a fox, trotting along the northern
                              fenceline, that bounded off into the wheat when it saw me. It's only
                              when one walks the ground that one sees how deceptively contured
                              Miller's fields are. What looks like level ground from the road is
                              really a quirky patchwork of undulations. It would compartmentalize any
                              small-unit action here, the enemy appearing and disappearing from a
                              soldier's view as he moved forward.

                              The trail, after running east, turns north again towards Mansfield
                              Ave/Poffenberger lane. In this vicinity, at "the northwest angle" of
                              the woods and cornfield the artist Frank H. Schell [Battles & Leaders]
                              sketched Confederate wounded, including "a tall, young Georgian with a
                              shattered ankle" sitting next to his dead father. Would these have been
                              members of Colquitt's command?

                              David


                              --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, "dickeyr46" <dickeyr46@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > Gerry,
                              >
                              > The suggestion of the area around the Locher cabin and the Hauser
                              > Ridge are excellent. Do not miss the NW portion of the West Woods
                              > where the 1st Minn was greeted with Pelham's artillery as they emeged
                              > from the woods. This NW corner tree line appears to be fairly true to
                              > the Carmen-Cope maps.
                              >
                              > Here's a suggestion for another easy to get to spot... it is the
                              > northeast corner of the Cornfield. If you get the NPS broucher "The
                              > Cornfield Trail," this location is marked as stop 4. It is easily
                              > reached by walking from Auto Tour Stop 4, north through the Cornfield
                              > using the trail, and then east along the northern Cornfield fence to
                              > where the Cornfield meets the East Woods. This spot trully is a
                              > location of "serenity and sacrifice." This spot is peaceful, with no
                              > vehicle traffic and little foot traffic. Yet, this corner of the
                              > Cornfield equaled or exceeded the violence of the western side where
                              > Gibbons fought. From the initial passing of Duryea's brigade at 6 am,
                              > to the attacks by Hay's Tigers, Hartsuff's men, and Law's Brigade, the
                              > stand by the Penn. Reserves, Ripley and Gordon facing each other, and
                              > finally Tyndale rolling up Colquitt's flank, this corner overlooked 3
                              > hours of back-and-forth sacrifice. This location is also neat in that
                              > most of the states had units in action in this vicinity. This corner
                              > was described as "...dead men literally piled upon and across each
                              > other" by one of Tyndale's regimental commanders. Of note is what you
                              > can't see from here... you can't see Miller's farm house, nor can you
                              > see the West Woods. This is a fantastic spot to appreciate how
                              > restrictive the terrain could be.
                              >
                              > Well, that's a suggestion as a way to appreciate the Cornfield from
                              > other than the "standard" read from Auto Stop 4.
                              >
                              > Ron Dickey
                              >
                              > --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, "G E Mayers" gerry1952@ wrote:
                              > >
                              > > Gang,
                              > >
                              > > In October (October 15th) I will be hosting a tour at Sharpsburg
                              > > (Antietam) battlefield for the Civil War Discussion Group Fall 2006
                              > > Muster. I realize some members of this board are also members of the
                              > > other board.... but this is not a cross posting.
                              > >
                              > > I write with three main requests:
                              > > 1. In addition to the remaining portion of the West Woods between
                              the
                              > > Philadelphia Brigade park and the SR 64 bypass, what other off the
                              > > beaten path areas in the park are there in the area of the Morning
                              > > Phases of the battle that can be visited with needing special
                              > > permission to do so?
                              > >
                              > >
                              >
                            • Thomas Clemens
                              More likely C. M. Douglas brigade from Lawton s Div. Thomas G. Clemens D.A. Professor of History Hagerstown Community College
                              Message 14 of 16 , May 29, 2006
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                                More likely C. M. Douglas' brigade from Lawton's Div.

                                Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
                                Professor of History
                                Hagerstown Community College


                                >>> camdensquare@... 05/29/06 8:48 AM >>>
                              • susansevier2003
                                After I posted my first message about Schell, I noticed John M. Priest includes this incident in his Antietam book. Priest says that Frank Schell sketched the
                                Message 15 of 16 , May 30, 2006
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                                  After I posted my first message about Schell, I noticed John M. Priest
                                  includes this incident in his Antietam book. Priest says that Frank
                                  Schell sketched the wounded Confederate and his dead father shortly
                                  after the artist "crossed the left of the 21 Georgia's former line"
                                  (page 167). The 21st GA, part of Trimble's [Walker's] brigade, had
                                  been sent forward to shore up Lawton and Ripley's line between Mumma's
                                  lane and the Cornfield.




                                  --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                                  <mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com> , "Thomas Clemens" <clemenst@...>
                                  wrote:
                                  >
                                  > More likely C. M. Douglas' brigade from Lawton's Div.
                                  >
                                  > Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
                                  > Professor of History
                                  > Hagerstown Community College
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > >>> camdensquare@... 05/29/06 8:48 AM >>>
                                  >




                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                • Thomas Clemens
                                  Yes that makes sense too. Good. Thomas G. Clemens D.A. Professor of History Hagerstown Community College
                                  Message 16 of 16 , May 31, 2006
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                                    Yes that makes sense too. Good.

                                    Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
                                    Professor of History
                                    Hagerstown Community College


                                    >>> camdensquare@... 05/30/06 5:03 PM >>>
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