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Re: [TalkAntietam] Re: Article about Hoods Texans

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  • NJ Rebel
    David, If you have read Mike Priest s book on the battle, IIRC, the area of The Cornfield has already been trampled down due to the attacks and counter attacks
    Message 1 of 27 , Aug 27, 2001
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      David,

      If you have read Mike Priest's book on the battle, IIRC, the area
      of The Cornfield has already been trampled down due to the
      attacks and counter attacks back and forth through "the corn".
      There probably would have been some areas in which more of the
      corn would have been standing than others. The famous painting
      about the charge of the First Texas in The Cornfield done by
      Troiani comes to mind. Perhaps that might give you an idea, as
      Don Troiani is very meticulous about the details in his
      paintings.

      Your humble servant,
      Gerry Mayers
      Co. B, "Tom Green Rifles",
      Fourth Regiment, Texas Volunteer Infantry

      "I know of no fitter resting-place for a soldier than the field
      on which he has nobly laid down his life." --General Robert
      Edward Lee


      ----- Original Message -----
      From: "David Lutton" <dunkerch@...>
      To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Monday, August 27, 2001 9:00 PM
      Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Re: Article about Hoods Texans


      > GO
      > In your opinion then the corn would have been more tense than
      today? But
      > we must remember that before Hood's troops stepped off roughly
      a hour after
      > the battle started what would this area look like to Hood's
      troops?. What
      > would be the effect of 1 hour of combat be to this relatively
      small area?
      > Hooker's often quoted remark comes to mind.
      >
      > If the original command to protect the flank came south of the
      cornfield,
      > what was happening to Hood's troops started south of the
      cornfield? What do
      > you think?
      >
      > David Litton
      > ----- Original Message -----
      > From: <oliverg25@...>
      > To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
      > Sent: Monday, August 27, 2001 8:18 PM
      > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Article about Hoods Texans
      >
      >
      > > --- In TalkAntietam@y..., TR Livesey <westwood@e...> wrote:
      > > > David,
      > > >
      > > > > Corn planting patterns were different in 1862, not nearly
      as
      > > > dense, with rows being wide enough for a horse to move
      between.
      > > > This would imply that the corn will have different degrees
      of
      > > > concealment,
      > >
      > > Not So!
      > > Once the corn is planted a horse never goes into the field.
      Plowing
      > > and planting is usually done with a team of horses, not one.
      after
      > > planting there is no need for a horse to go back into the
      field. Also
      > > a horse does not damage the top soil as much as a tractor
      wheel
      > >
      > > Amish farmers in PA still use horses and mules and their rows
      are
      > > tighter than those of farmers using tractors. Their fields
      are so
      > > tight you can not look down a row.
      > >
      > > This might come through twice when Hotmail gets its act
      together.
      > >
      > > O.G.
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
      http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
      > >
      > >
      >
      >
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      > ADVERTISEMENT
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    • NJ Rebel
      ... saw its ... believe, ... quote. ... Mark, did not the Ninth Army Corps comprise the bulk of the Federal expeditionary force that attacked and captured New
      Message 2 of 27 , Aug 27, 2001
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        Mark Plfum wrote earlier:
        > The Ninth Army Corps was formed just before 2nd Bull Run and
        saw its
        > first action under that name in that fight. They were, I
        believe,
        > part of the Army Of Virginia that you mentioned earlier in the
        quote.
        >

        Mark, did not the Ninth Army Corps comprise the bulk of the
        Federal expeditionary force that attacked and captured New Burn
        in North Carolina after landing near Cape Hatteras? I seem to
        recall reading somewhere that this was pretty much the case, as
        old Burnside was the commander of that amphibious expedition.

        > I know you are simply saying Dan'l was of Kentucky fame, but it
        may
        > give the missinformed the impression that he was actually FROM
        > Kentucky. We all know, of course, he was born and raised near
        > Reading, Pennsylvania and his folks were friends of the
        ancestors of
        > a guy named Abraham Lincoln. ;-)
        >
        Your comment about Dan'l Boone is well taken. BTW, what was the
        name of Dan'l's brother?

        Your humble servant,
        Gerry Mayers
        Co. B, "Tom Green Rifles",
        Fourth Regiment, Texas Volunteer Infantry

        "I know of no fitter resting-place for a soldier than the field
        on which he has nobly laid down his life." --General Robert
        Edward Lee
      • oliverg25@hotmail.com
        ... Neither am I. I live in Harrisburg. Not too many farms in this city. ... The tractor has evolved over the years. The last time I looked horses were still
        Message 3 of 27 , Aug 27, 2001
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          --- In TalkAntietam@y..., TR Livesey <westwood@e...> wrote:
          > O.G.,
          >
          > I am going to immediately admit that I am not an expert
          > in this field (heh-heh). My statements were based
          > on questions I have put to general historians, none of
          > whom claimed to be agricultural experts.
          >

          Neither am I. I live in Harrisburg. Not too many farms in this city.

          > I would not, however, base any conclusions on practices
          > of modern, albeit primitive, farmers. Just because they
          > don't use tractors does not mean that they do it the
          > same way as was done 100 years ago.
          >

          The tractor has evolved over the years. The last time I looked horses
          were still the smae as the original model. I don't know any Amish
          farmers personlly but I fail to see where they could possible be any
          different in their farming practices than those of the 19th Century.
          Considering they are using the same equipment.

          >
          > Do you have any source particular to 19th century
          > corn farming? I would very much like to hear an
          > authoritative source on the subject.

          You want me to reincarnate a 19th Century farmer or go knocking on
          doors in South-Central PA?

          One thing you seem to have forgotten is that Hooker ordered the
          cornfield to be raked with canister before any assult began. I don't
          think there was much cover left by the time th texans got there

          Ollie
        • David Lutton
          Ollie, Exactly my point. At this point of the battle the cornfield would have been defestated. Hence the corn would have been a non factor. David Lutton ...
          Message 4 of 27 , Aug 27, 2001
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            Ollie,

            Exactly my point. At this point of the battle the cornfield would have been
            defestated. Hence the corn would have been a non factor.

            David Lutton
            ----- Original Message -----
            From: <oliverg25@...>
            To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Monday, August 27, 2001 9:16 PM
            Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Article about Hoods Texans


            > --- In TalkAntietam@y..., TR Livesey <westwood@e...> wrote:
            > > O.G.,
            > >
            > > I am going to immediately admit that I am not an expert
            > > in this field (heh-heh). My statements were based
            > > on questions I have put to general historians, none of
            > > whom claimed to be agricultural experts.
            > >
            >
            > Neither am I. I live in Harrisburg. Not too many farms in this city.
            >
            > > I would not, however, base any conclusions on practices
            > > of modern, albeit primitive, farmers. Just because they
            > > don't use tractors does not mean that they do it the
            > > same way as was done 100 years ago.
            > >
            >
            > The tractor has evolved over the years. The last time I looked horses
            > were still the smae as the original model. I don't know any Amish
            > farmers personlly but I fail to see where they could possible be any
            > different in their farming practices than those of the 19th Century.
            > Considering they are using the same equipment.
            >
            > >
            > > Do you have any source particular to 19th century
            > > corn farming? I would very much like to hear an
            > > authoritative source on the subject.
            >
            > You want me to reincarnate a 19th Century farmer or go knocking on
            > doors in South-Central PA?
            >
            > One thing you seem to have forgotten is that Hooker ordered the
            > cornfield to be raked with canister before any assult began. I don't
            > think there was much cover left by the time th texans got there
            >
            > Ollie
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
            >
            >
          • oliverg25@hotmail.com
            ... have been ... David; Precisely! I think someone else also said the cornfield had been trampled before Hood got there. So the corn, or what remained,
            Message 5 of 27 , Aug 27, 2001
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              --- In TalkAntietam@y..., "David Lutton" <dunkerch@c...> wrote:
              > Ollie,
              >
              > Exactly my point. At this point of the battle the cornfield would
              have been
              > defestated. Hence the corn would have been a non factor.
              >
              > David Lutton

              David;

              Precisely!

              I think someone else also said the cornfield had been trampled before
              Hood got there. So the corn, or what remained, provided very little
              cover.

              Ollie
            • TR Livesey
              Ollie, oliverg25@hotmail.com wrote: ... Hooker s account is unreliable. He makes it sound like he mowed down a whole regiment waiting hidden in
              Message 6 of 27 , Aug 27, 2001
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                Ollie,

                oliverg25@... wrote:
                <general snip>
                >
                > One thing you seem to have forgotten is that Hooker ordered the
                > cornfield to be raked with canister before any assult began. I don't
                > think there was much cover left by the time th texans got there
                >
                > Ollie

                Hooker's account is unreliable. He makes it sound like he mowed down
                a whole regiment waiting hidden in the cornfield. In fact, when
                the I corps moved out, there were no significant Confederates in
                the corn, they were in line south of it.

                Furthermore, I doubt that Hooker could have possibly irradicated an
                entire 30 acre cornfield, no matter how much canister he used.
                Anyway, we are interested here in the southern end of it.

                TRL
              • Oliver Gamble
                ... From: TR Livesey To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, August 26, 2001 11:14 PM Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Article about Hoods Texans David, Corn
                Message 7 of 27 , Aug 27, 2001
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                  ----- Original Message -----
                  Sent: Sunday, August 26, 2001 11:14 PM
                  Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Article about Hoods Texans

                  David,

                  Corn planting patterns were different in 1862, not nearly as
                  dense, with rows being wide enough for a horse to move between.
                   
                  Not So!
                  Once the corn is planted a horse never goes into the field. Plowing and planting is usually done with a team of horses, not one.
                   
                  Amish farmers in PA still use horses and mules and their rows are tighter than those of farmers using tractors.
                   
                   O.G.
                • Tom Clemens
                  In the 19th Century, they used hills of corn, and check-row pattern allowed a lot of traffic in the cornfields. Think of it and a checkerboard where every
                  Message 8 of 27 , Aug 27, 2001
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                    In the 19th Century, they used hills of corn, and check-row pattern allowed a
                    lot of traffic in the cornfields. Think of it and a checkerboard where every
                    corner is a hill of corn. It was usually hand planted, not with horses and
                    machine planters. Bill Christen knows much about it than I do, ask him.


                    oliverg25@... wrote:

                    > --- In TalkAntietam@y..., TR Livesey <westwood@e...> wrote:
                    > > David,
                    > >
                    > > > Corn planting patterns were different in 1862, not nearly as
                    > > dense, with rows being wide enough for a horse to move between.
                    > > This would imply that the corn will have different degrees of
                    > > concealment,
                    >
                    > Not So!
                    > Once the corn is planted a horse never goes into the field. Plowing
                    > and planting is usually done with a team of horses, not one. after
                    > planting there is no need for a horse to go back into the field. Also
                    > a horse does not damage the top soil as much as a tractor wheel
                    >
                    > Amish farmers in PA still use horses and mules and their rows are
                    > tighter than those of farmers using tractors. Their fields are so
                    > tight you can not look down a row.
                    >
                    > This might come through twice when Hotmail gets its act together.
                    >
                    > O.G.
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                  • Tom Clemens
                    Squire Boone.
                    Message 9 of 27 , Aug 27, 2001
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                      Squire Boone.

                      NJ Rebel wrote:

                      > Your comment about Dan'l Boone is well taken. BTW, what was the
                      > name of Dan'l's brother?
                      >
                      > Your humble servant,
                      > Gerry Mayers
                      > Co. B, "Tom Green Rifles",
                      > Fourth Regiment, Texas Volunteer Infantry
                      >
                      > "I know of no fitter resting-place for a soldier than the field
                      > on which he has nobly laid down his life." --General Robert
                      > Edward Lee
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                    • NJ Rebel
                      Group; If you have a Preview option on your email program, I recommend you use it. It will allow you to see what attachments are attached before you open the
                      Message 10 of 27 , Apr 28, 2002
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                        Group;

                        If you have a Preview option on your email program, I recommend
                        you use it. It will allow you to see what attachments are
                        attached before you open the email! If you see anything ending
                        with .pif or .bat as an attachment or .exe, DELETE it
                        immediately! (Many viruses come with either of the three
                        extensions.)

                        Also, run Trend Micro Antivirus web based scanning, Norton Anti
                        Virus or any similar program to locate any virus infections you
                        might have and then clean.

                        The KLEZ-G variant worm virus has been running amuck in this
                        group, and already caused one member to have his account delisted
                        by the moderator.

                        Your humble servant,
                        Gerry Mayers
                        Co. B, "Tom Green Rifles",
                        Fourth Regiment, Texas Volunteer Infantry

                        A Proud American by Birth, Southern by Choice!

                        "I know of no fitter resting-place for a soldier than the field
                        on which he has nobly laid down his life." --General Robert
                        Edward Lee


                        ----- Original Message -----
                        From: <oliverg25@...>
                        To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                        Sent: Monday, August 27, 2001 8:18 PM
                        Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Article about Hoods Texans


                        > --- In TalkAntietam@y..., TR Livesey <westwood@e...> wrote:
                        > > David,
                        > >
                        > > > Corn planting patterns were different in 1862, not nearly
                        as
                        > > dense, with rows being wide enough for a horse to move
                        between.
                        > > This would imply that the corn will have different degrees of
                        > > concealment,
                        >
                        > Not So!
                        > Once the corn is planted a horse never goes into the field.
                        Plowing
                        > and planting is usually done with a team of horses, not one.
                        after
                        > planting there is no need for a horse to go back into the
                        field. Also
                        > a horse does not damage the top soil as much as a tractor wheel
                        >
                        > Amish farmers in PA still use horses and mules and their rows
                        are
                        > tighter than those of farmers using tractors. Their fields are
                        so
                        > tight you can not look down a row.
                        >
                        > This might come through twice when Hotmail gets its act
                        together.
                        >
                        > O.G.
                        >
                        >
                        > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                        > ADVERTISEMENT
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                        Service.
                        >
                        >
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