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Re: re September 14th questions

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  • Brian Downey
    Hi Gerry, Do you have a particular hypothesis behind your question about artillery at Fox s? It seems clear there were artillery units present and engaged,
    Message 1 of 23 , Apr 20, 2006
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      Hi Gerry,

      Do you have a particular hypothesis behind your question about
      artillery at Fox's? It seems clear there were artillery units present
      and engaged, vis:
      At about half a mile from the summit, at Fox's Gap, the
      enemy had opened upon Scammon with case shot from the edge of the
      timber above the open fields ... about 9 o'clock. Bayonets were fixed,
      and at the word the lines charged forward with loud hurrahs. The enemy
      opened with musketry and shrapnel ... the cover of the forest had
      enabled the enemy's guns to get away toward our right ... About noon
      the combat was reduced to one of artillery, and the enemy's guns had
      so completely the range of the sloping fields behind us that their
      canister shot cut long furrows in the sod, with a noise like the
      cutting of a melon rind.
      (Jacob Cox, Kanawha Division, years later in Battles and Leaders)
      Brian



      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • G E Mayers
      Thanks..... Yr. Obt. Svt. G E Gerry Mayers To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even on one s mother s side, is an introduction to any
      Message 2 of 23 , Apr 20, 2006
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        Thanks.....

        Yr. Obt. Svt.
        G E "Gerry" Mayers

        To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even on
        one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the Union, a
        passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from the Almighty
        God. --Anonymous
        ----- Original Message -----
        From: "Harry Smeltzer" <hjs21@...>
        To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Thursday, April 20, 2006 2:46 PM
        Subject: RE: [TalkAntietam] Re: re September 14th questions


        >I wouldn't put it that way, Gerry. Garland did not order them back
        >before
        > they saw action. IIRC, he ordered them back when the position
        > became
        > untenable.
        >
        >
        >
        > Harry
        >
        >
        >
        > -----Original Message-----
        > From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
        > [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com] On
        > Behalf Of G E Mayers
        > Sent: Thursday, April 20, 2006 1:43 PM
        > To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
        > Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Re: re September 14th questions
        >
        >
        >
        > Harry;
        >
        > Thanks. This is something I did not know... So Garland is to blame
        > for
        > no artillery on the Confederate right flank at the Gap?
        >
        > Yr. Obt. Svt.
        > G E "Gerry" Mayers
        >
        > To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even on
        > one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the Union, a
        > passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from the Almighty
        > God. --Anonymous
        > ----- Original Message -----
        > From: "Harry Smeltzer" <hjs21@...>
        > To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
        > Sent: Thursday, April 20, 2006 1:41 PM
        > Subject: RE: [TalkAntietam] Re: re September 14th questions
        >
        >
        >> IIRC, Bondurant after being ordered away (by Garland?) briefly
        >> stopped at
        >> Pelham's former position.
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >> Harry
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >> -----Original Message-----
        >> From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
        >> [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com] On
        >> Behalf Of Thomas Clemens
        >> Sent: Thursday, April 20, 2006 11:35 AM
        >> To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
        >> Subject: RE: [TalkAntietam] Re: re September 14th questions
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >> Yes they were there, but preceded by part of the Horse Artillery
        >> from
        >> Stuart.
        >>
        >>
        >> Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
        >> Professor of History
        >> Hagerstown Community College
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >>>>> hjs21@... 4/20/2006 11:07:05 AM >>>
        >>
        >> Why am I thinking Bondurant's battery was at Fox's Gap?
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >> Harry
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >> -----Original Message-----
        >> From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
        >> [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com] On
        >> Behalf Of G E Mayers
        >> Sent: Thursday, April 20, 2006 9:59 AM
        >> To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
        >> Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Re: re September 14th questions
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >> Thanks Brian!
        >>
        >> Interesting whether there was CSA artillery right in Fox's Gap.
        >> Scott
        >> Mingus' book on Antietam wargaming seems to imply there was, but
        >> other
        >>
        >> accounts...such as from the 4th NC...say nothing about
        >> artillery...which is sort of strange, as I am sure it would have
        >> been
        >> mentioned.
        >>
        >> Yr. Obt. Svt.
        >> G E "Gerry" Mayers
        >>
        >> To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even on
        >> one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the Union,
        >> a
        >> passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from the
        >> Almighty
        >> God. --Anonymous
        >> ----- Original Message -----
        >> From: "Brian Downey" <bdowney@...>
        >> To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
        >> Sent: Wednesday, April 19, 2006 12:06 PM
        >> Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: re September 14th questions
        >>
        >>
        >>> Hi Gerry,
        >>>
        >>> I'm not much help, but perhaps some pointers ...
        >>>
        >>>> 1. Did D H Hill have or not have artillery present at Fox's Gap
        >>>> during
        >>>> the whole of the fighting there? Extent sources I have seen for
        >>>> the
        >>>> Forth NC say nothing about artillery being present, even though
        >>>> some
        >>>> other sources (not in the Fourth NC) state artillery was present.
        >>>
        >>> General Hill's OR for the action has several references to
        >>> Artillery
        >>> at Fox's. In reading that, I believe when he refers to the
        >>> "Turnpike"
        >>> or his left he's talking about Turner's Gap, his "right" being
        >>> Fox's.
        >>>
        >>> His Report transcribed here:
        >>> http://aotw.org/exhibit.php?exhibit_id=57
        >>>
        >>> His subordinates also produced reports if you need more.
        >>>
        >>>> 2. Who was in command of Hood's Division while he was under
        >>>> arrest?
        >>>>
        >>> I recall this was Colonel William T. Wofford. Prof. Harsh talks
        >>> about
        >>> this in Taken at the Flood.
        >>>
        >>> I hope someone with local knowledge will have more for you on the
        >>> other 3 Qs.
        >>>
        >>> Brian
        >>>>
        >>>> Thanks!!!!!
        >>>>
        >>>> Yr. Obt. Svt.
        >>>> G E "Gerry" Mayers
        >>>>
        >>>> To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
        >>>> on
        >>>> one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
        >>>> Union,
        >>>> a
        >>>> passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from the
        >>>> Almighty
        >>>> God. --Anonymous
        >>>>
        >>>
        >>>
        >>>
        >>>
        >>>
        >>>
        >>>
        >>>
        >>>
        >>>
        >>>
        >>
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      • G E Mayers
        Brian, How accurate is the B&L account? Can it be verified through other sources? I think if rather strange that, if artillery on the Confederate side was
        Message 3 of 23 , Apr 20, 2006
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          Brian,

          How accurate is the B&L account? Can it be verified through other
          sources?

          I think if rather strange that, if artillery on the Confederate side
          was indeed there, why at least one of the regiments fighting on the
          right of the Confederate line in the Gap would be silent about it?

          Yr. Obt. Svt.
          G E "Gerry" Mayers

          To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even on
          one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the Union, a
          passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from the Almighty
          God. --Anonymous
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: "Brian Downey" <bdowney@...>
          To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Thursday, April 20, 2006 4:24 PM
          Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: re September 14th questions


          > Hi Gerry,
          >
          > Do you have a particular hypothesis behind your question about
          > artillery at Fox's? It seems clear there were artillery units
          > present
          > and engaged, vis:
          > At about half a mile from the summit, at Fox's Gap, the
          > enemy had opened upon Scammon with case shot from the edge of the
          > timber above the open fields ... about 9 o'clock. Bayonets were
          > fixed,
          > and at the word the lines charged forward with loud hurrahs. The
          > enemy
          > opened with musketry and shrapnel ... the cover of the forest had
          > enabled the enemy's guns to get away toward our right ... About noon
          > the combat was reduced to one of artillery, and the enemy's guns had
          > so completely the range of the sloping fields behind us that their
          > canister shot cut long furrows in the sod, with a noise like the
          > cutting of a melon rind.
          > (Jacob Cox, Kanawha Division, years later in Battles and Leaders)
          > Brian
          >
          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > SPONSORED LINKS Civil war history Civil war battles Civil war
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        • Brian Downey
          I withdraw my nomination of Wofford as interim commander of the division while Hood was under arrest. It clearly was not he. I should learn not to guess on
          Message 4 of 23 , Apr 21, 2006
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            I withdraw my nomination of Wofford as interim commander of the
            division while Hood was under arrest. It clearly was not he. I should
            learn not to guess on the fly.

            I agree with Harry's find from STS. I could find no better answer in
            a search of materials last night.

            --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, "Harry Smeltzer" <hjs21@...> wrote:
            >
            > Harsh, STS, page 57:
            >
            >
            >
            > "Longstreet apparently had a penchant for three-brigade divisions,
            an, at
            > some point during the Second Manassas Campaign, ha assigned Evans's
            brigade,
            > recently arrived from South Carolina, to this [Hood's] division.
            Whether he
            > did so intentionally or not, he thereby succeeded Hood in command,
            because
            > Evans's commission was of an earlier date. Hood and Evans
            apparently did
            > not get along, and on August 31, over a question of captured wagons,
            Evans
            > placed Hood under arrest, where he remained until September 14.
            Presumably,
            > although evidence is lacking, Evans commanded the division in the
            > intervening two weeks."
            >
            >
            >
            > So he says evidence is lacking and logic prevails. I don't think
            I'm going
            > to be able to improve on that.
            >
            >
            >
            > Harry
            >
          • G E Mayers
            Brian; No problem. I have STS also and will check out the pages Harry mentioned. Yr. Obt. Svt. G E Gerry Mayers To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage,
            Message 5 of 23 , Apr 24, 2006
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              Brian;

              No problem.

              I have STS also and will check out the pages Harry mentioned.

              Yr. Obt. Svt.
              G E "Gerry" Mayers

              To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even on
              one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the Union, a
              passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from the Almighty
              God. --Anonymous
              ----- Original Message -----
              From: "Brian Downey" <bdowney@...>
              To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Friday, April 21, 2006 3:25 PM
              Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: September 14th questions


              >I withdraw my nomination of Wofford as interim commander of the
              > division while Hood was under arrest. It clearly was not he. I
              > should
              > learn not to guess on the fly.
              >
              > I agree with Harry's find from STS. I could find no better answer
              > in
              > a search of materials last night.
              >
              > --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, "Harry Smeltzer" <hjs21@...>
              > wrote:
              >>
              >> Harsh, STS, page 57:
              >>
              >>
              >>
              >> "Longstreet apparently had a penchant for three-brigade divisions,
              > an, at
              >> some point during the Second Manassas Campaign, ha assigned Evans's
              > brigade,
              >> recently arrived from South Carolina, to this [Hood's] division.
              > Whether he
              >> did so intentionally or not, he thereby succeeded Hood in command,
              > because
              >> Evans's commission was of an earlier date. Hood and Evans
              > apparently did
              >> not get along, and on August 31, over a question of captured
              >> wagons,
              > Evans
              >> placed Hood under arrest, where he remained until September 14.
              > Presumably,
              >> although evidence is lacking, Evans commanded the division in the
              >> intervening two weeks."
              >>
              >>
              >>
              >> So he says evidence is lacking and logic prevails. I don't think
              > I'm going
              >> to be able to improve on that.
              >>
              >>
              >>
              >> Harry
              >>
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
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