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RE: [TalkAntietam] Re: re September 14th questions

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  • Thomas Clemens
    Yes they were there, but preceded by part of the Horse Artillery from Stuart. Thomas G. Clemens D.A. Professor of History Hagerstown Community College ... Why
    Message 1 of 23 , Apr 20, 2006
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      Yes they were there, but preceded by part of the Horse Artillery from
      Stuart.


      Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
      Professor of History
      Hagerstown Community College



      >>> hjs21@... 4/20/2006 11:07:05 AM >>>

      Why am I thinking Bondurant's battery was at Fox's Gap?



      Harry



      -----Original Message-----
      From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
      [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com] On
      Behalf Of G E Mayers
      Sent: Thursday, April 20, 2006 9:59 AM
      To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Re: re September 14th questions



      Thanks Brian!

      Interesting whether there was CSA artillery right in Fox's Gap. Scott
      Mingus' book on Antietam wargaming seems to imply there was, but other

      accounts...such as from the 4th NC...say nothing about
      artillery...which is sort of strange, as I am sure it would have been
      mentioned.

      Yr. Obt. Svt.
      G E "Gerry" Mayers

      To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even on
      one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the Union, a
      passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from the Almighty
      God. --Anonymous
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: "Brian Downey" <bdowney@...>
      To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Wednesday, April 19, 2006 12:06 PM
      Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: re September 14th questions


      > Hi Gerry,
      >
      > I'm not much help, but perhaps some pointers ...
      >
      >> 1. Did D H Hill have or not have artillery present at Fox's Gap
      >> during
      >> the whole of the fighting there? Extent sources I have seen for the
      >> Forth NC say nothing about artillery being present, even though
      >> some
      >> other sources (not in the Fourth NC) state artillery was present.
      >
      > General Hill's OR for the action has several references to Artillery
      > at Fox's. In reading that, I believe when he refers to the
      > "Turnpike"
      > or his left he's talking about Turner's Gap, his "right" being
      > Fox's.
      >
      > His Report transcribed here:
      > http://aotw.org/exhibit.php?exhibit_id=57
      >
      > His subordinates also produced reports if you need more.
      >
      >> 2. Who was in command of Hood's Division while he was under arrest?
      >>
      > I recall this was Colonel William T. Wofford. Prof. Harsh talks
      > about
      > this in Taken at the Flood.
      >
      > I hope someone with local knowledge will have more for you on the
      > other 3 Qs.
      >
      > Brian
      >>
      >> Thanks!!!!!
      >>
      >> Yr. Obt. Svt.
      >> G E "Gerry" Mayers
      >>
      >> To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even on
      >> one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the Union,
      >> a
      >> passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from the
      >> Almighty
      >> God. --Anonymous
      >>
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
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    • Harry Smeltzer
      IIRC, Bondurant after being ordered away (by Garland?) briefly stopped at Pelham s former position. Harry ... From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
      Message 2 of 23 , Apr 20, 2006
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        IIRC, Bondurant after being ordered away (by Garland?) briefly stopped at
        Pelham's former position.



        Harry



        -----Original Message-----
        From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com] On
        Behalf Of Thomas Clemens
        Sent: Thursday, April 20, 2006 11:35 AM
        To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: RE: [TalkAntietam] Re: re September 14th questions



        Yes they were there, but preceded by part of the Horse Artillery from
        Stuart.


        Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
        Professor of History
        Hagerstown Community College



        >>> hjs21@... 4/20/2006 11:07:05 AM >>>

        Why am I thinking Bondurant's battery was at Fox's Gap?



        Harry



        -----Original Message-----
        From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
        [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com] On
        Behalf Of G E Mayers
        Sent: Thursday, April 20, 2006 9:59 AM
        To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Re: re September 14th questions



        Thanks Brian!

        Interesting whether there was CSA artillery right in Fox's Gap. Scott
        Mingus' book on Antietam wargaming seems to imply there was, but other

        accounts...such as from the 4th NC...say nothing about
        artillery...which is sort of strange, as I am sure it would have been
        mentioned.

        Yr. Obt. Svt.
        G E "Gerry" Mayers

        To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even on
        one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the Union, a
        passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from the Almighty
        God. --Anonymous
        ----- Original Message -----
        From: "Brian Downey" <bdowney@...>
        To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Wednesday, April 19, 2006 12:06 PM
        Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: re September 14th questions


        > Hi Gerry,
        >
        > I'm not much help, but perhaps some pointers ...
        >
        >> 1. Did D H Hill have or not have artillery present at Fox's Gap
        >> during
        >> the whole of the fighting there? Extent sources I have seen for the
        >> Forth NC say nothing about artillery being present, even though
        >> some
        >> other sources (not in the Fourth NC) state artillery was present.
        >
        > General Hill's OR for the action has several references to Artillery
        > at Fox's. In reading that, I believe when he refers to the
        > "Turnpike"
        > or his left he's talking about Turner's Gap, his "right" being
        > Fox's.
        >
        > His Report transcribed here:
        > http://aotw.org/exhibit.php?exhibit_id=57
        >
        > His subordinates also produced reports if you need more.
        >
        >> 2. Who was in command of Hood's Division while he was under arrest?
        >>
        > I recall this was Colonel William T. Wofford. Prof. Harsh talks
        > about
        > this in Taken at the Flood.
        >
        > I hope someone with local knowledge will have more for you on the
        > other 3 Qs.
        >
        > Brian
        >>
        >> Thanks!!!!!
        >>
        >> Yr. Obt. Svt.
        >> G E "Gerry" Mayers
        >>
        >> To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even on
        >> one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the Union,
        >> a
        >> passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from the
        >> Almighty
        >> God. --Anonymous
        >>
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
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      • barringer63
        ... 4thNC ... Gerry, Maybe an excerpt from this sketch written by Capt John A. Ramsey, Co. D, 10th Regiment N.C.S.T (1st Regiment N.C. Artillery) in Clark s
        Message 3 of 23 , Apr 20, 2006
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          Gerry Mayers wrote:
          >
          > I will check out the 2nd NC, as it was part of the brigade the
          4thNC
          > was in.

          Gerry,

          Maybe an excerpt from this sketch written by Capt John A. Ramsey,
          Co. D, 10th Regiment N.C.S.T (1st Regiment N.C. Artillery) in
          Clark's will help. The battery referred to in this sketch
          is "Reilly's Battery). "On 14th left camp about 10 o'clock a.m.,
          marched one mile towards Hagerstown and halted to procure and cook
          rations. The men and horses had been without rations for over twenty-
          four hours. The Marylanders were so patriotic they would not sell us
          wood but we finally bought wood and the rations were on the fire.
          About 1 o'clock p.m. a courier came galloping up with orders to
          proceed in a gallop to South Muntain and report to General D.H.
          Hill. The assembly was blown, the horses had been fed and were
          quickly harnessed, the drivers and mn took some of the halg-cooked
          off of the fire, and in about seven minutes the battery was rumbling
          over the National road to South Mountain. The battery arrived at
          South Mountain about 3 o'clock p.m. General Hill was in the gap, and
          assigned the battery to a position. the right gun was near the
          hotel. General Hill gave special orders not to fire unless he
          ordered it, or our troops were driven up the mountain and past us.
          We remained under the enemy's fire all afternoon, but under orders
          could not return it. About an hour after dark the batery left the
          position and encamped near the foot of the mountain. On 15th the
          battery was ordred to march in the rear of the army as a part of the
          rear-guard. Marched eight miles and was ordered to tak position on
          the right-hand side of the road leading from Sharpsburg to the stone
          bridge across Antietam Creek."

          Teej
        • G E Mayers
          Harry; Thanks. This is something I did not know... So Garland is to blame for no artillery on the Confederate right flank at the Gap? Yr. Obt. Svt. G E Gerry
          Message 4 of 23 , Apr 20, 2006
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            Harry;

            Thanks. This is something I did not know... So Garland is to blame for
            no artillery on the Confederate right flank at the Gap?

            Yr. Obt. Svt.
            G E "Gerry" Mayers

            To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even on
            one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the Union, a
            passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from the Almighty
            God. --Anonymous
            ----- Original Message -----
            From: "Harry Smeltzer" <hjs21@...>
            To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Thursday, April 20, 2006 1:41 PM
            Subject: RE: [TalkAntietam] Re: re September 14th questions


            > IIRC, Bondurant after being ordered away (by Garland?) briefly
            > stopped at
            > Pelham's former position.
            >
            >
            >
            > Harry
            >
            >
            >
            > -----Original Message-----
            > From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
            > [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com] On
            > Behalf Of Thomas Clemens
            > Sent: Thursday, April 20, 2006 11:35 AM
            > To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
            > Subject: RE: [TalkAntietam] Re: re September 14th questions
            >
            >
            >
            > Yes they were there, but preceded by part of the Horse Artillery
            > from
            > Stuart.
            >
            >
            > Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
            > Professor of History
            > Hagerstown Community College
            >
            >
            >
            >>>> hjs21@... 4/20/2006 11:07:05 AM >>>
            >
            > Why am I thinking Bondurant's battery was at Fox's Gap?
            >
            >
            >
            > Harry
            >
            >
            >
            > -----Original Message-----
            > From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
            > [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com] On
            > Behalf Of G E Mayers
            > Sent: Thursday, April 20, 2006 9:59 AM
            > To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
            > Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Re: re September 14th questions
            >
            >
            >
            > Thanks Brian!
            >
            > Interesting whether there was CSA artillery right in Fox's Gap.
            > Scott
            > Mingus' book on Antietam wargaming seems to imply there was, but
            > other
            >
            > accounts...such as from the 4th NC...say nothing about
            > artillery...which is sort of strange, as I am sure it would have
            > been
            > mentioned.
            >
            > Yr. Obt. Svt.
            > G E "Gerry" Mayers
            >
            > To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even on
            > one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the Union, a
            > passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from the Almighty
            > God. --Anonymous
            > ----- Original Message -----
            > From: "Brian Downey" <bdowney@...>
            > To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
            > Sent: Wednesday, April 19, 2006 12:06 PM
            > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: re September 14th questions
            >
            >
            >> Hi Gerry,
            >>
            >> I'm not much help, but perhaps some pointers ...
            >>
            >>> 1. Did D H Hill have or not have artillery present at Fox's Gap
            >>> during
            >>> the whole of the fighting there? Extent sources I have seen for
            >>> the
            >>> Forth NC say nothing about artillery being present, even though
            >>> some
            >>> other sources (not in the Fourth NC) state artillery was present.
            >>
            >> General Hill's OR for the action has several references to
            >> Artillery
            >> at Fox's. In reading that, I believe when he refers to the
            >> "Turnpike"
            >> or his left he's talking about Turner's Gap, his "right" being
            >> Fox's.
            >>
            >> His Report transcribed here:
            >> http://aotw.org/exhibit.php?exhibit_id=57
            >>
            >> His subordinates also produced reports if you need more.
            >>
            >>> 2. Who was in command of Hood's Division while he was under
            >>> arrest?
            >>>
            >> I recall this was Colonel William T. Wofford. Prof. Harsh talks
            >> about
            >> this in Taken at the Flood.
            >>
            >> I hope someone with local knowledge will have more for you on the
            >> other 3 Qs.
            >>
            >> Brian
            >>>
            >>> Thanks!!!!!
            >>>
            >>> Yr. Obt. Svt.
            >>> G E "Gerry" Mayers
            >>>
            >>> To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even on
            >>> one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the Union,
            >>> a
            >>> passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from the
            >>> Almighty
            >>> God. --Anonymous
            >>>
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >>
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          • G E Mayers
            Teej; This is good information, but IMHO it pretty much shows that Reilly;s Battery was not engaged at all. Yr. Obt. Svt. G E Gerry Mayers To Be A Virginian,
            Message 5 of 23 , Apr 20, 2006
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              Teej;

              This is good information, but IMHO it pretty much shows that Reilly;s
              Battery was not engaged at all.

              Yr. Obt. Svt.
              G E "Gerry" Mayers

              To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even on
              one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the Union, a
              passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from the Almighty
              God. --Anonymous
              ----- Original Message -----
              From: "barringer63" <teej@...>
              To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Thursday, April 20, 2006 2:32 PM
              Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: re September 14th questions


              > Gerry Mayers wrote:
              >>
              >> I will check out the 2nd NC, as it was part of the brigade the
              > 4thNC
              >> was in.
              >
              > Gerry,
              >
              > Maybe an excerpt from this sketch written by Capt John A. Ramsey,
              > Co. D, 10th Regiment N.C.S.T (1st Regiment N.C. Artillery) in
              > Clark's will help. The battery referred to in this sketch
              > is "Reilly's Battery). "On 14th left camp about 10 o'clock a.m.,
              > marched one mile towards Hagerstown and halted to procure and cook
              > rations. The men and horses had been without rations for over
              > twenty-
              > four hours. The Marylanders were so patriotic they would not sell us
              > wood but we finally bought wood and the rations were on the fire.
              > About 1 o'clock p.m. a courier came galloping up with orders to
              > proceed in a gallop to South Muntain and report to General D.H.
              > Hill. The assembly was blown, the horses had been fed and were
              > quickly harnessed, the drivers and mn took some of the halg-cooked
              > off of the fire, and in about seven minutes the battery was rumbling
              > over the National road to South Mountain. The battery arrived at
              > South Mountain about 3 o'clock p.m. General Hill was in the gap, and
              > assigned the battery to a position. the right gun was near the
              > hotel. General Hill gave special orders not to fire unless he
              > ordered it, or our troops were driven up the mountain and past us.
              > We remained under the enemy's fire all afternoon, but under orders
              > could not return it. About an hour after dark the batery left the
              > position and encamped near the foot of the mountain. On 15th the
              > battery was ordred to march in the rear of the army as a part of the
              > rear-guard. Marched eight miles and was ordered to tak position on
              > the right-hand side of the road leading from Sharpsburg to the stone
              > bridge across Antietam Creek."
              >
              > Teej
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
              > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
              >
              > a.. Visit your group "TalkAntietam" on the web.
              >
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              >
            • Harry Smeltzer
              I wouldn t put it that way, Gerry. Garland did not order them back before they saw action. IIRC, he ordered them back when the position became untenable.
              Message 6 of 23 , Apr 20, 2006
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                I wouldn't put it that way, Gerry. Garland did not order them back before
                they saw action. IIRC, he ordered them back when the position became
                untenable.



                Harry



                -----Original Message-----
                From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com] On
                Behalf Of G E Mayers
                Sent: Thursday, April 20, 2006 1:43 PM
                To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Re: re September 14th questions



                Harry;

                Thanks. This is something I did not know... So Garland is to blame for
                no artillery on the Confederate right flank at the Gap?

                Yr. Obt. Svt.
                G E "Gerry" Mayers

                To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even on
                one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the Union, a
                passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from the Almighty
                God. --Anonymous
                ----- Original Message -----
                From: "Harry Smeltzer" <hjs21@...>
                To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                Sent: Thursday, April 20, 2006 1:41 PM
                Subject: RE: [TalkAntietam] Re: re September 14th questions


                > IIRC, Bondurant after being ordered away (by Garland?) briefly
                > stopped at
                > Pelham's former position.
                >
                >
                >
                > Harry
                >
                >
                >
                > -----Original Message-----
                > From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                > [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com] On
                > Behalf Of Thomas Clemens
                > Sent: Thursday, April 20, 2006 11:35 AM
                > To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                > Subject: RE: [TalkAntietam] Re: re September 14th questions
                >
                >
                >
                > Yes they were there, but preceded by part of the Horse Artillery
                > from
                > Stuart.
                >
                >
                > Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
                > Professor of History
                > Hagerstown Community College
                >
                >
                >
                >>>> hjs21@... 4/20/2006 11:07:05 AM >>>
                >
                > Why am I thinking Bondurant's battery was at Fox's Gap?
                >
                >
                >
                > Harry
                >
                >
                >
                > -----Original Message-----
                > From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                > [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com] On
                > Behalf Of G E Mayers
                > Sent: Thursday, April 20, 2006 9:59 AM
                > To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                > Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Re: re September 14th questions
                >
                >
                >
                > Thanks Brian!
                >
                > Interesting whether there was CSA artillery right in Fox's Gap.
                > Scott
                > Mingus' book on Antietam wargaming seems to imply there was, but
                > other
                >
                > accounts...such as from the 4th NC...say nothing about
                > artillery...which is sort of strange, as I am sure it would have
                > been
                > mentioned.
                >
                > Yr. Obt. Svt.
                > G E "Gerry" Mayers
                >
                > To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even on
                > one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the Union, a
                > passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from the Almighty
                > God. --Anonymous
                > ----- Original Message -----
                > From: "Brian Downey" <bdowney@...>
                > To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                > Sent: Wednesday, April 19, 2006 12:06 PM
                > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: re September 14th questions
                >
                >
                >> Hi Gerry,
                >>
                >> I'm not much help, but perhaps some pointers ...
                >>
                >>> 1. Did D H Hill have or not have artillery present at Fox's Gap
                >>> during
                >>> the whole of the fighting there? Extent sources I have seen for
                >>> the
                >>> Forth NC say nothing about artillery being present, even though
                >>> some
                >>> other sources (not in the Fourth NC) state artillery was present.
                >>
                >> General Hill's OR for the action has several references to
                >> Artillery
                >> at Fox's. In reading that, I believe when he refers to the
                >> "Turnpike"
                >> or his left he's talking about Turner's Gap, his "right" being
                >> Fox's.
                >>
                >> His Report transcribed here:
                >> http://aotw.org/exhibit.php?exhibit_id=57
                >>
                >> His subordinates also produced reports if you need more.
                >>
                >>> 2. Who was in command of Hood's Division while he was under
                >>> arrest?
                >>>
                >> I recall this was Colonel William T. Wofford. Prof. Harsh talks
                >> about
                >> this in Taken at the Flood.
                >>
                >> I hope someone with local knowledge will have more for you on the
                >> other 3 Qs.
                >>
                >> Brian
                >>>
                >>> Thanks!!!!!
                >>>
                >>> Yr. Obt. Svt.
                >>> G E "Gerry" Mayers
                >>>
                >>> To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even on
                >>> one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the Union,
                >>> a
                >>> passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from the
                >>> Almighty
                >>> God. --Anonymous
                >>>
                >>
                >>
                >>
                >>
                >>
                >>
                >>
                >>
                >>
                >>
                >>
                >
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                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Brian Downey
                Hi Gerry, Do you have a particular hypothesis behind your question about artillery at Fox s? It seems clear there were artillery units present and engaged,
                Message 7 of 23 , Apr 20, 2006
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                  Hi Gerry,

                  Do you have a particular hypothesis behind your question about
                  artillery at Fox's? It seems clear there were artillery units present
                  and engaged, vis:
                  At about half a mile from the summit, at Fox's Gap, the
                  enemy had opened upon Scammon with case shot from the edge of the
                  timber above the open fields ... about 9 o'clock. Bayonets were fixed,
                  and at the word the lines charged forward with loud hurrahs. The enemy
                  opened with musketry and shrapnel ... the cover of the forest had
                  enabled the enemy's guns to get away toward our right ... About noon
                  the combat was reduced to one of artillery, and the enemy's guns had
                  so completely the range of the sloping fields behind us that their
                  canister shot cut long furrows in the sod, with a noise like the
                  cutting of a melon rind.
                  (Jacob Cox, Kanawha Division, years later in Battles and Leaders)
                  Brian



                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • G E Mayers
                  Thanks..... Yr. Obt. Svt. G E Gerry Mayers To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even on one s mother s side, is an introduction to any
                  Message 8 of 23 , Apr 20, 2006
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                    Thanks.....

                    Yr. Obt. Svt.
                    G E "Gerry" Mayers

                    To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even on
                    one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the Union, a
                    passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from the Almighty
                    God. --Anonymous
                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: "Harry Smeltzer" <hjs21@...>
                    To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                    Sent: Thursday, April 20, 2006 2:46 PM
                    Subject: RE: [TalkAntietam] Re: re September 14th questions


                    >I wouldn't put it that way, Gerry. Garland did not order them back
                    >before
                    > they saw action. IIRC, he ordered them back when the position
                    > became
                    > untenable.
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Harry
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > -----Original Message-----
                    > From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                    > [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com] On
                    > Behalf Of G E Mayers
                    > Sent: Thursday, April 20, 2006 1:43 PM
                    > To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                    > Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Re: re September 14th questions
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Harry;
                    >
                    > Thanks. This is something I did not know... So Garland is to blame
                    > for
                    > no artillery on the Confederate right flank at the Gap?
                    >
                    > Yr. Obt. Svt.
                    > G E "Gerry" Mayers
                    >
                    > To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even on
                    > one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the Union, a
                    > passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from the Almighty
                    > God. --Anonymous
                    > ----- Original Message -----
                    > From: "Harry Smeltzer" <hjs21@...>
                    > To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                    > Sent: Thursday, April 20, 2006 1:41 PM
                    > Subject: RE: [TalkAntietam] Re: re September 14th questions
                    >
                    >
                    >> IIRC, Bondurant after being ordered away (by Garland?) briefly
                    >> stopped at
                    >> Pelham's former position.
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >> Harry
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >> -----Original Message-----
                    >> From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                    >> [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com] On
                    >> Behalf Of Thomas Clemens
                    >> Sent: Thursday, April 20, 2006 11:35 AM
                    >> To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                    >> Subject: RE: [TalkAntietam] Re: re September 14th questions
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >> Yes they were there, but preceded by part of the Horse Artillery
                    >> from
                    >> Stuart.
                    >>
                    >>
                    >> Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
                    >> Professor of History
                    >> Hagerstown Community College
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>>>> hjs21@... 4/20/2006 11:07:05 AM >>>
                    >>
                    >> Why am I thinking Bondurant's battery was at Fox's Gap?
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >> Harry
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >> -----Original Message-----
                    >> From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                    >> [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com] On
                    >> Behalf Of G E Mayers
                    >> Sent: Thursday, April 20, 2006 9:59 AM
                    >> To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                    >> Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Re: re September 14th questions
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >> Thanks Brian!
                    >>
                    >> Interesting whether there was CSA artillery right in Fox's Gap.
                    >> Scott
                    >> Mingus' book on Antietam wargaming seems to imply there was, but
                    >> other
                    >>
                    >> accounts...such as from the 4th NC...say nothing about
                    >> artillery...which is sort of strange, as I am sure it would have
                    >> been
                    >> mentioned.
                    >>
                    >> Yr. Obt. Svt.
                    >> G E "Gerry" Mayers
                    >>
                    >> To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even on
                    >> one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the Union,
                    >> a
                    >> passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from the
                    >> Almighty
                    >> God. --Anonymous
                    >> ----- Original Message -----
                    >> From: "Brian Downey" <bdowney@...>
                    >> To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                    >> Sent: Wednesday, April 19, 2006 12:06 PM
                    >> Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: re September 14th questions
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>> Hi Gerry,
                    >>>
                    >>> I'm not much help, but perhaps some pointers ...
                    >>>
                    >>>> 1. Did D H Hill have or not have artillery present at Fox's Gap
                    >>>> during
                    >>>> the whole of the fighting there? Extent sources I have seen for
                    >>>> the
                    >>>> Forth NC say nothing about artillery being present, even though
                    >>>> some
                    >>>> other sources (not in the Fourth NC) state artillery was present.
                    >>>
                    >>> General Hill's OR for the action has several references to
                    >>> Artillery
                    >>> at Fox's. In reading that, I believe when he refers to the
                    >>> "Turnpike"
                    >>> or his left he's talking about Turner's Gap, his "right" being
                    >>> Fox's.
                    >>>
                    >>> His Report transcribed here:
                    >>> http://aotw.org/exhibit.php?exhibit_id=57
                    >>>
                    >>> His subordinates also produced reports if you need more.
                    >>>
                    >>>> 2. Who was in command of Hood's Division while he was under
                    >>>> arrest?
                    >>>>
                    >>> I recall this was Colonel William T. Wofford. Prof. Harsh talks
                    >>> about
                    >>> this in Taken at the Flood.
                    >>>
                    >>> I hope someone with local knowledge will have more for you on the
                    >>> other 3 Qs.
                    >>>
                    >>> Brian
                    >>>>
                    >>>> Thanks!!!!!
                    >>>>
                    >>>> Yr. Obt. Svt.
                    >>>> G E "Gerry" Mayers
                    >>>>
                    >>>> To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
                    >>>> on
                    >>>> one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
                    >>>> Union,
                    >>>> a
                    >>>> passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from the
                    >>>> Almighty
                    >>>> God. --Anonymous
                    >>>>
                    >>>
                    >>>
                    >>>
                    >>>
                    >>>
                    >>>
                    >>>
                    >>>
                    >>>
                    >>>
                    >>>
                    >>
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                    >> ----
                    >>> YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
                    >>>
                    >>> a.. Visit your group "TalkAntietam" on the web.
                    >>>
                    >>> b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                    >>> TalkAntietam-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                    >>>
                    >>> c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                    >>> Service.
                    >>>
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                    >> ----
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                    >> _____
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                  • G E Mayers
                    Brian, How accurate is the B&L account? Can it be verified through other sources? I think if rather strange that, if artillery on the Confederate side was
                    Message 9 of 23 , Apr 20, 2006
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Brian,

                      How accurate is the B&L account? Can it be verified through other
                      sources?

                      I think if rather strange that, if artillery on the Confederate side
                      was indeed there, why at least one of the regiments fighting on the
                      right of the Confederate line in the Gap would be silent about it?

                      Yr. Obt. Svt.
                      G E "Gerry" Mayers

                      To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even on
                      one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the Union, a
                      passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from the Almighty
                      God. --Anonymous
                      ----- Original Message -----
                      From: "Brian Downey" <bdowney@...>
                      To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                      Sent: Thursday, April 20, 2006 4:24 PM
                      Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: re September 14th questions


                      > Hi Gerry,
                      >
                      > Do you have a particular hypothesis behind your question about
                      > artillery at Fox's? It seems clear there were artillery units
                      > present
                      > and engaged, vis:
                      > At about half a mile from the summit, at Fox's Gap, the
                      > enemy had opened upon Scammon with case shot from the edge of the
                      > timber above the open fields ... about 9 o'clock. Bayonets were
                      > fixed,
                      > and at the word the lines charged forward with loud hurrahs. The
                      > enemy
                      > opened with musketry and shrapnel ... the cover of the forest had
                      > enabled the enemy's guns to get away toward our right ... About noon
                      > the combat was reduced to one of artillery, and the enemy's guns had
                      > so completely the range of the sloping fields behind us that their
                      > canister shot cut long furrows in the sod, with a noise like the
                      > cutting of a melon rind.
                      > (Jacob Cox, Kanawha Division, years later in Battles and Leaders)
                      > Brian
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >
                      >
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                      >
                      >
                      >
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                    • Brian Downey
                      I withdraw my nomination of Wofford as interim commander of the division while Hood was under arrest. It clearly was not he. I should learn not to guess on
                      Message 10 of 23 , Apr 21, 2006
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                        I withdraw my nomination of Wofford as interim commander of the
                        division while Hood was under arrest. It clearly was not he. I should
                        learn not to guess on the fly.

                        I agree with Harry's find from STS. I could find no better answer in
                        a search of materials last night.

                        --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, "Harry Smeltzer" <hjs21@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > Harsh, STS, page 57:
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > "Longstreet apparently had a penchant for three-brigade divisions,
                        an, at
                        > some point during the Second Manassas Campaign, ha assigned Evans's
                        brigade,
                        > recently arrived from South Carolina, to this [Hood's] division.
                        Whether he
                        > did so intentionally or not, he thereby succeeded Hood in command,
                        because
                        > Evans's commission was of an earlier date. Hood and Evans
                        apparently did
                        > not get along, and on August 31, over a question of captured wagons,
                        Evans
                        > placed Hood under arrest, where he remained until September 14.
                        Presumably,
                        > although evidence is lacking, Evans commanded the division in the
                        > intervening two weeks."
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > So he says evidence is lacking and logic prevails. I don't think
                        I'm going
                        > to be able to improve on that.
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Harry
                        >
                      • G E Mayers
                        Brian; No problem. I have STS also and will check out the pages Harry mentioned. Yr. Obt. Svt. G E Gerry Mayers To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage,
                        Message 11 of 23 , Apr 24, 2006
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                          Brian;

                          No problem.

                          I have STS also and will check out the pages Harry mentioned.

                          Yr. Obt. Svt.
                          G E "Gerry" Mayers

                          To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even on
                          one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the Union, a
                          passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from the Almighty
                          God. --Anonymous
                          ----- Original Message -----
                          From: "Brian Downey" <bdowney@...>
                          To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                          Sent: Friday, April 21, 2006 3:25 PM
                          Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: September 14th questions


                          >I withdraw my nomination of Wofford as interim commander of the
                          > division while Hood was under arrest. It clearly was not he. I
                          > should
                          > learn not to guess on the fly.
                          >
                          > I agree with Harry's find from STS. I could find no better answer
                          > in
                          > a search of materials last night.
                          >
                          > --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, "Harry Smeltzer" <hjs21@...>
                          > wrote:
                          >>
                          >> Harsh, STS, page 57:
                          >>
                          >>
                          >>
                          >> "Longstreet apparently had a penchant for three-brigade divisions,
                          > an, at
                          >> some point during the Second Manassas Campaign, ha assigned Evans's
                          > brigade,
                          >> recently arrived from South Carolina, to this [Hood's] division.
                          > Whether he
                          >> did so intentionally or not, he thereby succeeded Hood in command,
                          > because
                          >> Evans's commission was of an earlier date. Hood and Evans
                          > apparently did
                          >> not get along, and on August 31, over a question of captured
                          >> wagons,
                          > Evans
                          >> placed Hood under arrest, where he remained until September 14.
                          > Presumably,
                          >> although evidence is lacking, Evans commanded the division in the
                          >> intervening two weeks."
                          >>
                          >>
                          >>
                          >> So he says evidence is lacking and logic prevails. I don't think
                          > I'm going
                          >> to be able to improve on that.
                          >>
                          >>
                          >>
                          >> Harry
                          >>
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
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