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RE: [TalkAntietam] Re: re September 14th questions

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  • Thomas Clemens
    Yes they were there, but preceded by part of the Horse Artillery from Stuart. Thomas G. Clemens D.A. Professor of History Hagerstown Community College ... Why
    Message 1 of 23 , Apr 20, 2006
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      Yes they were there, but preceded by part of the Horse Artillery from
      Stuart.


      Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
      Professor of History
      Hagerstown Community College



      >>> hjs21@... 4/20/2006 11:07:05 AM >>>

      Why am I thinking Bondurant's battery was at Fox's Gap?



      Harry



      -----Original Message-----
      From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
      [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com] On
      Behalf Of G E Mayers
      Sent: Thursday, April 20, 2006 9:59 AM
      To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Re: re September 14th questions



      Thanks Brian!

      Interesting whether there was CSA artillery right in Fox's Gap. Scott
      Mingus' book on Antietam wargaming seems to imply there was, but other

      accounts...such as from the 4th NC...say nothing about
      artillery...which is sort of strange, as I am sure it would have been
      mentioned.

      Yr. Obt. Svt.
      G E "Gerry" Mayers

      To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even on
      one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the Union, a
      passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from the Almighty
      God. --Anonymous
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: "Brian Downey" <bdowney@...>
      To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Wednesday, April 19, 2006 12:06 PM
      Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: re September 14th questions


      > Hi Gerry,
      >
      > I'm not much help, but perhaps some pointers ...
      >
      >> 1. Did D H Hill have or not have artillery present at Fox's Gap
      >> during
      >> the whole of the fighting there? Extent sources I have seen for the
      >> Forth NC say nothing about artillery being present, even though
      >> some
      >> other sources (not in the Fourth NC) state artillery was present.
      >
      > General Hill's OR for the action has several references to Artillery
      > at Fox's. In reading that, I believe when he refers to the
      > "Turnpike"
      > or his left he's talking about Turner's Gap, his "right" being
      > Fox's.
      >
      > His Report transcribed here:
      > http://aotw.org/exhibit.php?exhibit_id=57
      >
      > His subordinates also produced reports if you need more.
      >
      >> 2. Who was in command of Hood's Division while he was under arrest?
      >>
      > I recall this was Colonel William T. Wofford. Prof. Harsh talks
      > about
      > this in Taken at the Flood.
      >
      > I hope someone with local knowledge will have more for you on the
      > other 3 Qs.
      >
      > Brian
      >>
      >> Thanks!!!!!
      >>
      >> Yr. Obt. Svt.
      >> G E "Gerry" Mayers
      >>
      >> To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even on
      >> one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the Union,
      >> a
      >> passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from the
      >> Almighty
      >> God. --Anonymous
      >>
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
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    • G E Mayers
      I will check out the 2nd NC, as it was part of the brigade the 4thNC was in. Yr. Obt. Svt. G E Gerry Mayers To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage,
      Message 2 of 23 , Apr 20, 2006
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        I will check out the 2nd NC, as it was part of the brigade the 4thNC
        was in.

        Yr. Obt. Svt.
        G E "Gerry" Mayers

        To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even on
        one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the Union, a
        passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from the Almighty
        God. --Anonymous
        ----- Original Message -----
        From: "Harry Smeltzer" <hjs21@...>
        To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Thursday, April 20, 2006 12:24 PM
        Subject: RE: [TalkAntietam] Re: re September 14th questions


        > Here are some of the sources listed relative to Bondurant in
        > Priest's book:
        >
        >
        >
        > A 7/15/99 letter to Carman from John Purifoy.
        >
        >
        >
        > A manuscript at USMAHI by James Abraham, "With the Army of West
        > Virginia
        > 1861-1864".
        >
        >
        >
        > You might want to check 2nd NC accounts as well as 36th OH.
        >
        >
        >
        > Since all Confederates were lying, thieving, murderous, secesh scum
        > it
        > shouldn't surprise that their accounts don't jive,
        >
        >
        >
        > Harry
        >
        >
        >
        > -----Original Message-----
        > From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
        > [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com] On
        > Behalf Of G E Mayers
        > Sent: Thursday, April 20, 2006 11:06 AM
        > To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
        > Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Re: re September 14th questions
        >
        >
        >
        > Harry;
        >
        > According to some sources, Bondurant's Btty was at the Gap, but
        > other
        > sources are silent on this, including the Fourth NC. That is why I
        > am
        > trying to pin down the reasons why.
        >
        > Yr. Obt. Svt.
        > G E "Gerry" Mayers
        >
        > To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even on
        > one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the Union, a
        > passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from the Almighty
        > God. --Anonymous
        > ----- Original Message -----
        > From: "Harry Smeltzer" <hjs21@...>
        > To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
        > Sent: Thursday, April 20, 2006 11:07 AM
        > Subject: RE: [TalkAntietam] Re: re September 14th questions
        >
        >
        >> Why am I thinking Bondurant's battery was at Fox's Gap?
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >> Harry
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >> -----Original Message-----
        >> From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
        >> [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com] On
        >> Behalf Of G E Mayers
        >> Sent: Thursday, April 20, 2006 9:59 AM
        >> To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
        >> Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Re: re September 14th questions
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >> Thanks Brian!
        >>
        >> Interesting whether there was CSA artillery right in Fox's Gap.
        >> Scott
        >> Mingus' book on Antietam wargaming seems to imply there was, but
        >> other
        >> accounts...such as from the 4th NC...say nothing about
        >> artillery...which is sort of strange, as I am sure it would have
        >> been
        >> mentioned.
        >>
        >> Yr. Obt. Svt.
        >> G E "Gerry" Mayers
        >>
        >> To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even on
        >> one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the Union,
        >> a
        >> passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from the
        >> Almighty
        >> God. --Anonymous
        >> ----- Original Message -----
        >> From: "Brian Downey" <bdowney@...>
        >> To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
        >> Sent: Wednesday, April 19, 2006 12:06 PM
        >> Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: re September 14th questions
        >>
        >>
        >>> Hi Gerry,
        >>>
        >>> I'm not much help, but perhaps some pointers ...
        >>>
        >>>> 1. Did D H Hill have or not have artillery present at Fox's Gap
        >>>> during
        >>>> the whole of the fighting there? Extent sources I have seen for
        >>>> the
        >>>> Forth NC say nothing about artillery being present, even though
        >>>> some
        >>>> other sources (not in the Fourth NC) state artillery was present.
        >>>
        >>> General Hill's OR for the action has several references to
        >>> Artillery
        >>> at Fox's. In reading that, I believe when he refers to the
        >>> "Turnpike"
        >>> or his left he's talking about Turner's Gap, his "right" being
        >>> Fox's.
        >>>
        >>> His Report transcribed here:
        >>> http://aotw.org/exhibit.php?exhibit_id=57
        >>>
        >>> His subordinates also produced reports if you need more.
        >>>
        >>>> 2. Who was in command of Hood's Division while he was under
        >>>> arrest?
        >>>>
        >>> I recall this was Colonel William T. Wofford. Prof. Harsh talks
        >>> about
        >>> this in Taken at the Flood.
        >>>
        >>> I hope someone with local knowledge will have more for you on the
        >>> other 3 Qs.
        >>>
        >>> Brian
        >>>>
        >>>> Thanks!!!!!
        >>>>
        >>>> Yr. Obt. Svt.
        >>>> G E "Gerry" Mayers
        >>>>
        >>>> To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
        >>>> on
        >>>> one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
        >>>> Union,
        >>>> a
        >>>> passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from the
        >>>> Almighty
        >>>> God. --Anonymous
        >>>>
        >>>
        >>>
        >>>
        >>>
        >>>
        >>>
        >>>
        >>>
        >>>
        >>>
        >>>
        >>
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      • Harry Smeltzer
        IIRC, Bondurant after being ordered away (by Garland?) briefly stopped at Pelham s former position. Harry ... From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
        Message 3 of 23 , Apr 20, 2006
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          IIRC, Bondurant after being ordered away (by Garland?) briefly stopped at
          Pelham's former position.



          Harry



          -----Original Message-----
          From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com] On
          Behalf Of Thomas Clemens
          Sent: Thursday, April 20, 2006 11:35 AM
          To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: RE: [TalkAntietam] Re: re September 14th questions



          Yes they were there, but preceded by part of the Horse Artillery from
          Stuart.


          Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
          Professor of History
          Hagerstown Community College



          >>> hjs21@... 4/20/2006 11:07:05 AM >>>

          Why am I thinking Bondurant's battery was at Fox's Gap?



          Harry



          -----Original Message-----
          From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
          [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com] On
          Behalf Of G E Mayers
          Sent: Thursday, April 20, 2006 9:59 AM
          To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Re: re September 14th questions



          Thanks Brian!

          Interesting whether there was CSA artillery right in Fox's Gap. Scott
          Mingus' book on Antietam wargaming seems to imply there was, but other

          accounts...such as from the 4th NC...say nothing about
          artillery...which is sort of strange, as I am sure it would have been
          mentioned.

          Yr. Obt. Svt.
          G E "Gerry" Mayers

          To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even on
          one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the Union, a
          passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from the Almighty
          God. --Anonymous
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: "Brian Downey" <bdowney@...>
          To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Wednesday, April 19, 2006 12:06 PM
          Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: re September 14th questions


          > Hi Gerry,
          >
          > I'm not much help, but perhaps some pointers ...
          >
          >> 1. Did D H Hill have or not have artillery present at Fox's Gap
          >> during
          >> the whole of the fighting there? Extent sources I have seen for the
          >> Forth NC say nothing about artillery being present, even though
          >> some
          >> other sources (not in the Fourth NC) state artillery was present.
          >
          > General Hill's OR for the action has several references to Artillery
          > at Fox's. In reading that, I believe when he refers to the
          > "Turnpike"
          > or his left he's talking about Turner's Gap, his "right" being
          > Fox's.
          >
          > His Report transcribed here:
          > http://aotw.org/exhibit.php?exhibit_id=57
          >
          > His subordinates also produced reports if you need more.
          >
          >> 2. Who was in command of Hood's Division while he was under arrest?
          >>
          > I recall this was Colonel William T. Wofford. Prof. Harsh talks
          > about
          > this in Taken at the Flood.
          >
          > I hope someone with local knowledge will have more for you on the
          > other 3 Qs.
          >
          > Brian
          >>
          >> Thanks!!!!!
          >>
          >> Yr. Obt. Svt.
          >> G E "Gerry" Mayers
          >>
          >> To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even on
          >> one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the Union,
          >> a
          >> passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from the
          >> Almighty
          >> God. --Anonymous
          >>
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
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        • barringer63
          ... 4thNC ... Gerry, Maybe an excerpt from this sketch written by Capt John A. Ramsey, Co. D, 10th Regiment N.C.S.T (1st Regiment N.C. Artillery) in Clark s
          Message 4 of 23 , Apr 20, 2006
          • 0 Attachment
            Gerry Mayers wrote:
            >
            > I will check out the 2nd NC, as it was part of the brigade the
            4thNC
            > was in.

            Gerry,

            Maybe an excerpt from this sketch written by Capt John A. Ramsey,
            Co. D, 10th Regiment N.C.S.T (1st Regiment N.C. Artillery) in
            Clark's will help. The battery referred to in this sketch
            is "Reilly's Battery). "On 14th left camp about 10 o'clock a.m.,
            marched one mile towards Hagerstown and halted to procure and cook
            rations. The men and horses had been without rations for over twenty-
            four hours. The Marylanders were so patriotic they would not sell us
            wood but we finally bought wood and the rations were on the fire.
            About 1 o'clock p.m. a courier came galloping up with orders to
            proceed in a gallop to South Muntain and report to General D.H.
            Hill. The assembly was blown, the horses had been fed and were
            quickly harnessed, the drivers and mn took some of the halg-cooked
            off of the fire, and in about seven minutes the battery was rumbling
            over the National road to South Mountain. The battery arrived at
            South Mountain about 3 o'clock p.m. General Hill was in the gap, and
            assigned the battery to a position. the right gun was near the
            hotel. General Hill gave special orders not to fire unless he
            ordered it, or our troops were driven up the mountain and past us.
            We remained under the enemy's fire all afternoon, but under orders
            could not return it. About an hour after dark the batery left the
            position and encamped near the foot of the mountain. On 15th the
            battery was ordred to march in the rear of the army as a part of the
            rear-guard. Marched eight miles and was ordered to tak position on
            the right-hand side of the road leading from Sharpsburg to the stone
            bridge across Antietam Creek."

            Teej
          • G E Mayers
            Harry; Thanks. This is something I did not know... So Garland is to blame for no artillery on the Confederate right flank at the Gap? Yr. Obt. Svt. G E Gerry
            Message 5 of 23 , Apr 20, 2006
            • 0 Attachment
              Harry;

              Thanks. This is something I did not know... So Garland is to blame for
              no artillery on the Confederate right flank at the Gap?

              Yr. Obt. Svt.
              G E "Gerry" Mayers

              To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even on
              one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the Union, a
              passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from the Almighty
              God. --Anonymous
              ----- Original Message -----
              From: "Harry Smeltzer" <hjs21@...>
              To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Thursday, April 20, 2006 1:41 PM
              Subject: RE: [TalkAntietam] Re: re September 14th questions


              > IIRC, Bondurant after being ordered away (by Garland?) briefly
              > stopped at
              > Pelham's former position.
              >
              >
              >
              > Harry
              >
              >
              >
              > -----Original Message-----
              > From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
              > [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com] On
              > Behalf Of Thomas Clemens
              > Sent: Thursday, April 20, 2006 11:35 AM
              > To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
              > Subject: RE: [TalkAntietam] Re: re September 14th questions
              >
              >
              >
              > Yes they were there, but preceded by part of the Horse Artillery
              > from
              > Stuart.
              >
              >
              > Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
              > Professor of History
              > Hagerstown Community College
              >
              >
              >
              >>>> hjs21@... 4/20/2006 11:07:05 AM >>>
              >
              > Why am I thinking Bondurant's battery was at Fox's Gap?
              >
              >
              >
              > Harry
              >
              >
              >
              > -----Original Message-----
              > From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
              > [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com] On
              > Behalf Of G E Mayers
              > Sent: Thursday, April 20, 2006 9:59 AM
              > To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
              > Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Re: re September 14th questions
              >
              >
              >
              > Thanks Brian!
              >
              > Interesting whether there was CSA artillery right in Fox's Gap.
              > Scott
              > Mingus' book on Antietam wargaming seems to imply there was, but
              > other
              >
              > accounts...such as from the 4th NC...say nothing about
              > artillery...which is sort of strange, as I am sure it would have
              > been
              > mentioned.
              >
              > Yr. Obt. Svt.
              > G E "Gerry" Mayers
              >
              > To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even on
              > one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the Union, a
              > passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from the Almighty
              > God. --Anonymous
              > ----- Original Message -----
              > From: "Brian Downey" <bdowney@...>
              > To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
              > Sent: Wednesday, April 19, 2006 12:06 PM
              > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: re September 14th questions
              >
              >
              >> Hi Gerry,
              >>
              >> I'm not much help, but perhaps some pointers ...
              >>
              >>> 1. Did D H Hill have or not have artillery present at Fox's Gap
              >>> during
              >>> the whole of the fighting there? Extent sources I have seen for
              >>> the
              >>> Forth NC say nothing about artillery being present, even though
              >>> some
              >>> other sources (not in the Fourth NC) state artillery was present.
              >>
              >> General Hill's OR for the action has several references to
              >> Artillery
              >> at Fox's. In reading that, I believe when he refers to the
              >> "Turnpike"
              >> or his left he's talking about Turner's Gap, his "right" being
              >> Fox's.
              >>
              >> His Report transcribed here:
              >> http://aotw.org/exhibit.php?exhibit_id=57
              >>
              >> His subordinates also produced reports if you need more.
              >>
              >>> 2. Who was in command of Hood's Division while he was under
              >>> arrest?
              >>>
              >> I recall this was Colonel William T. Wofford. Prof. Harsh talks
              >> about
              >> this in Taken at the Flood.
              >>
              >> I hope someone with local knowledge will have more for you on the
              >> other 3 Qs.
              >>
              >> Brian
              >>>
              >>> Thanks!!!!!
              >>>
              >>> Yr. Obt. Svt.
              >>> G E "Gerry" Mayers
              >>>
              >>> To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even on
              >>> one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the Union,
              >>> a
              >>> passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from the
              >>> Almighty
              >>> God. --Anonymous
              >>>
              >>
              >>
              >>
              >>
              >>
              >>
              >>
              >>
              >>
              >>
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            • G E Mayers
              Teej; This is good information, but IMHO it pretty much shows that Reilly;s Battery was not engaged at all. Yr. Obt. Svt. G E Gerry Mayers To Be A Virginian,
              Message 6 of 23 , Apr 20, 2006
              • 0 Attachment
                Teej;

                This is good information, but IMHO it pretty much shows that Reilly;s
                Battery was not engaged at all.

                Yr. Obt. Svt.
                G E "Gerry" Mayers

                To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even on
                one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the Union, a
                passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from the Almighty
                God. --Anonymous
                ----- Original Message -----
                From: "barringer63" <teej@...>
                To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                Sent: Thursday, April 20, 2006 2:32 PM
                Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: re September 14th questions


                > Gerry Mayers wrote:
                >>
                >> I will check out the 2nd NC, as it was part of the brigade the
                > 4thNC
                >> was in.
                >
                > Gerry,
                >
                > Maybe an excerpt from this sketch written by Capt John A. Ramsey,
                > Co. D, 10th Regiment N.C.S.T (1st Regiment N.C. Artillery) in
                > Clark's will help. The battery referred to in this sketch
                > is "Reilly's Battery). "On 14th left camp about 10 o'clock a.m.,
                > marched one mile towards Hagerstown and halted to procure and cook
                > rations. The men and horses had been without rations for over
                > twenty-
                > four hours. The Marylanders were so patriotic they would not sell us
                > wood but we finally bought wood and the rations were on the fire.
                > About 1 o'clock p.m. a courier came galloping up with orders to
                > proceed in a gallop to South Muntain and report to General D.H.
                > Hill. The assembly was blown, the horses had been fed and were
                > quickly harnessed, the drivers and mn took some of the halg-cooked
                > off of the fire, and in about seven minutes the battery was rumbling
                > over the National road to South Mountain. The battery arrived at
                > South Mountain about 3 o'clock p.m. General Hill was in the gap, and
                > assigned the battery to a position. the right gun was near the
                > hotel. General Hill gave special orders not to fire unless he
                > ordered it, or our troops were driven up the mountain and past us.
                > We remained under the enemy's fire all afternoon, but under orders
                > could not return it. About an hour after dark the batery left the
                > position and encamped near the foot of the mountain. On 15th the
                > battery was ordred to march in the rear of the army as a part of the
                > rear-guard. Marched eight miles and was ordered to tak position on
                > the right-hand side of the road leading from Sharpsburg to the stone
                > bridge across Antietam Creek."
                >
                > Teej
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
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              • Harry Smeltzer
                I wouldn t put it that way, Gerry. Garland did not order them back before they saw action. IIRC, he ordered them back when the position became untenable.
                Message 7 of 23 , Apr 20, 2006
                • 0 Attachment
                  I wouldn't put it that way, Gerry. Garland did not order them back before
                  they saw action. IIRC, he ordered them back when the position became
                  untenable.



                  Harry



                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com] On
                  Behalf Of G E Mayers
                  Sent: Thursday, April 20, 2006 1:43 PM
                  To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Re: re September 14th questions



                  Harry;

                  Thanks. This is something I did not know... So Garland is to blame for
                  no artillery on the Confederate right flank at the Gap?

                  Yr. Obt. Svt.
                  G E "Gerry" Mayers

                  To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even on
                  one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the Union, a
                  passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from the Almighty
                  God. --Anonymous
                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: "Harry Smeltzer" <hjs21@...>
                  To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                  Sent: Thursday, April 20, 2006 1:41 PM
                  Subject: RE: [TalkAntietam] Re: re September 14th questions


                  > IIRC, Bondurant after being ordered away (by Garland?) briefly
                  > stopped at
                  > Pelham's former position.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Harry
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > -----Original Message-----
                  > From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                  > [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com] On
                  > Behalf Of Thomas Clemens
                  > Sent: Thursday, April 20, 2006 11:35 AM
                  > To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                  > Subject: RE: [TalkAntietam] Re: re September 14th questions
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Yes they were there, but preceded by part of the Horse Artillery
                  > from
                  > Stuart.
                  >
                  >
                  > Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
                  > Professor of History
                  > Hagerstown Community College
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >>>> hjs21@... 4/20/2006 11:07:05 AM >>>
                  >
                  > Why am I thinking Bondurant's battery was at Fox's Gap?
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Harry
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > -----Original Message-----
                  > From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                  > [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com] On
                  > Behalf Of G E Mayers
                  > Sent: Thursday, April 20, 2006 9:59 AM
                  > To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                  > Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Re: re September 14th questions
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Thanks Brian!
                  >
                  > Interesting whether there was CSA artillery right in Fox's Gap.
                  > Scott
                  > Mingus' book on Antietam wargaming seems to imply there was, but
                  > other
                  >
                  > accounts...such as from the 4th NC...say nothing about
                  > artillery...which is sort of strange, as I am sure it would have
                  > been
                  > mentioned.
                  >
                  > Yr. Obt. Svt.
                  > G E "Gerry" Mayers
                  >
                  > To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even on
                  > one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the Union, a
                  > passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from the Almighty
                  > God. --Anonymous
                  > ----- Original Message -----
                  > From: "Brian Downey" <bdowney@...>
                  > To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                  > Sent: Wednesday, April 19, 2006 12:06 PM
                  > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: re September 14th questions
                  >
                  >
                  >> Hi Gerry,
                  >>
                  >> I'm not much help, but perhaps some pointers ...
                  >>
                  >>> 1. Did D H Hill have or not have artillery present at Fox's Gap
                  >>> during
                  >>> the whole of the fighting there? Extent sources I have seen for
                  >>> the
                  >>> Forth NC say nothing about artillery being present, even though
                  >>> some
                  >>> other sources (not in the Fourth NC) state artillery was present.
                  >>
                  >> General Hill's OR for the action has several references to
                  >> Artillery
                  >> at Fox's. In reading that, I believe when he refers to the
                  >> "Turnpike"
                  >> or his left he's talking about Turner's Gap, his "right" being
                  >> Fox's.
                  >>
                  >> His Report transcribed here:
                  >> http://aotw.org/exhibit.php?exhibit_id=57
                  >>
                  >> His subordinates also produced reports if you need more.
                  >>
                  >>> 2. Who was in command of Hood's Division while he was under
                  >>> arrest?
                  >>>
                  >> I recall this was Colonel William T. Wofford. Prof. Harsh talks
                  >> about
                  >> this in Taken at the Flood.
                  >>
                  >> I hope someone with local knowledge will have more for you on the
                  >> other 3 Qs.
                  >>
                  >> Brian
                  >>>
                  >>> Thanks!!!!!
                  >>>
                  >>> Yr. Obt. Svt.
                  >>> G E "Gerry" Mayers
                  >>>
                  >>> To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even on
                  >>> one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the Union,
                  >>> a
                  >>> passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from the
                  >>> Almighty
                  >>> God. --Anonymous
                  >>>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >
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                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Brian Downey
                  Hi Gerry, Do you have a particular hypothesis behind your question about artillery at Fox s? It seems clear there were artillery units present and engaged,
                  Message 8 of 23 , Apr 20, 2006
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Hi Gerry,

                    Do you have a particular hypothesis behind your question about
                    artillery at Fox's? It seems clear there were artillery units present
                    and engaged, vis:
                    At about half a mile from the summit, at Fox's Gap, the
                    enemy had opened upon Scammon with case shot from the edge of the
                    timber above the open fields ... about 9 o'clock. Bayonets were fixed,
                    and at the word the lines charged forward with loud hurrahs. The enemy
                    opened with musketry and shrapnel ... the cover of the forest had
                    enabled the enemy's guns to get away toward our right ... About noon
                    the combat was reduced to one of artillery, and the enemy's guns had
                    so completely the range of the sloping fields behind us that their
                    canister shot cut long furrows in the sod, with a noise like the
                    cutting of a melon rind.
                    (Jacob Cox, Kanawha Division, years later in Battles and Leaders)
                    Brian



                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • G E Mayers
                    Thanks..... Yr. Obt. Svt. G E Gerry Mayers To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even on one s mother s side, is an introduction to any
                    Message 9 of 23 , Apr 20, 2006
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Thanks.....

                      Yr. Obt. Svt.
                      G E "Gerry" Mayers

                      To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even on
                      one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the Union, a
                      passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from the Almighty
                      God. --Anonymous
                      ----- Original Message -----
                      From: "Harry Smeltzer" <hjs21@...>
                      To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                      Sent: Thursday, April 20, 2006 2:46 PM
                      Subject: RE: [TalkAntietam] Re: re September 14th questions


                      >I wouldn't put it that way, Gerry. Garland did not order them back
                      >before
                      > they saw action. IIRC, he ordered them back when the position
                      > became
                      > untenable.
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Harry
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > -----Original Message-----
                      > From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                      > [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com] On
                      > Behalf Of G E Mayers
                      > Sent: Thursday, April 20, 2006 1:43 PM
                      > To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                      > Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Re: re September 14th questions
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Harry;
                      >
                      > Thanks. This is something I did not know... So Garland is to blame
                      > for
                      > no artillery on the Confederate right flank at the Gap?
                      >
                      > Yr. Obt. Svt.
                      > G E "Gerry" Mayers
                      >
                      > To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even on
                      > one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the Union, a
                      > passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from the Almighty
                      > God. --Anonymous
                      > ----- Original Message -----
                      > From: "Harry Smeltzer" <hjs21@...>
                      > To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                      > Sent: Thursday, April 20, 2006 1:41 PM
                      > Subject: RE: [TalkAntietam] Re: re September 14th questions
                      >
                      >
                      >> IIRC, Bondurant after being ordered away (by Garland?) briefly
                      >> stopped at
                      >> Pelham's former position.
                      >>
                      >>
                      >>
                      >> Harry
                      >>
                      >>
                      >>
                      >> -----Original Message-----
                      >> From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                      >> [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com] On
                      >> Behalf Of Thomas Clemens
                      >> Sent: Thursday, April 20, 2006 11:35 AM
                      >> To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                      >> Subject: RE: [TalkAntietam] Re: re September 14th questions
                      >>
                      >>
                      >>
                      >> Yes they were there, but preceded by part of the Horse Artillery
                      >> from
                      >> Stuart.
                      >>
                      >>
                      >> Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
                      >> Professor of History
                      >> Hagerstown Community College
                      >>
                      >>
                      >>
                      >>>>> hjs21@... 4/20/2006 11:07:05 AM >>>
                      >>
                      >> Why am I thinking Bondurant's battery was at Fox's Gap?
                      >>
                      >>
                      >>
                      >> Harry
                      >>
                      >>
                      >>
                      >> -----Original Message-----
                      >> From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                      >> [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com] On
                      >> Behalf Of G E Mayers
                      >> Sent: Thursday, April 20, 2006 9:59 AM
                      >> To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                      >> Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Re: re September 14th questions
                      >>
                      >>
                      >>
                      >> Thanks Brian!
                      >>
                      >> Interesting whether there was CSA artillery right in Fox's Gap.
                      >> Scott
                      >> Mingus' book on Antietam wargaming seems to imply there was, but
                      >> other
                      >>
                      >> accounts...such as from the 4th NC...say nothing about
                      >> artillery...which is sort of strange, as I am sure it would have
                      >> been
                      >> mentioned.
                      >>
                      >> Yr. Obt. Svt.
                      >> G E "Gerry" Mayers
                      >>
                      >> To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even on
                      >> one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the Union,
                      >> a
                      >> passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from the
                      >> Almighty
                      >> God. --Anonymous
                      >> ----- Original Message -----
                      >> From: "Brian Downey" <bdowney@...>
                      >> To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                      >> Sent: Wednesday, April 19, 2006 12:06 PM
                      >> Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: re September 14th questions
                      >>
                      >>
                      >>> Hi Gerry,
                      >>>
                      >>> I'm not much help, but perhaps some pointers ...
                      >>>
                      >>>> 1. Did D H Hill have or not have artillery present at Fox's Gap
                      >>>> during
                      >>>> the whole of the fighting there? Extent sources I have seen for
                      >>>> the
                      >>>> Forth NC say nothing about artillery being present, even though
                      >>>> some
                      >>>> other sources (not in the Fourth NC) state artillery was present.
                      >>>
                      >>> General Hill's OR for the action has several references to
                      >>> Artillery
                      >>> at Fox's. In reading that, I believe when he refers to the
                      >>> "Turnpike"
                      >>> or his left he's talking about Turner's Gap, his "right" being
                      >>> Fox's.
                      >>>
                      >>> His Report transcribed here:
                      >>> http://aotw.org/exhibit.php?exhibit_id=57
                      >>>
                      >>> His subordinates also produced reports if you need more.
                      >>>
                      >>>> 2. Who was in command of Hood's Division while he was under
                      >>>> arrest?
                      >>>>
                      >>> I recall this was Colonel William T. Wofford. Prof. Harsh talks
                      >>> about
                      >>> this in Taken at the Flood.
                      >>>
                      >>> I hope someone with local knowledge will have more for you on the
                      >>> other 3 Qs.
                      >>>
                      >>> Brian
                      >>>>
                      >>>> Thanks!!!!!
                      >>>>
                      >>>> Yr. Obt. Svt.
                      >>>> G E "Gerry" Mayers
                      >>>>
                      >>>> To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even
                      >>>> on
                      >>>> one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the
                      >>>> Union,
                      >>>> a
                      >>>> passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from the
                      >>>> Almighty
                      >>>> God. --Anonymous
                      >>>>
                      >>>
                      >>>
                      >>>
                      >>>
                      >>>
                      >>>
                      >>>
                      >>>
                      >>>
                      >>>
                      >>>
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                    • G E Mayers
                      Brian, How accurate is the B&L account? Can it be verified through other sources? I think if rather strange that, if artillery on the Confederate side was
                      Message 10 of 23 , Apr 20, 2006
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                        Brian,

                        How accurate is the B&L account? Can it be verified through other
                        sources?

                        I think if rather strange that, if artillery on the Confederate side
                        was indeed there, why at least one of the regiments fighting on the
                        right of the Confederate line in the Gap would be silent about it?

                        Yr. Obt. Svt.
                        G E "Gerry" Mayers

                        To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even on
                        one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the Union, a
                        passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from the Almighty
                        God. --Anonymous
                        ----- Original Message -----
                        From: "Brian Downey" <bdowney@...>
                        To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                        Sent: Thursday, April 20, 2006 4:24 PM
                        Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: re September 14th questions


                        > Hi Gerry,
                        >
                        > Do you have a particular hypothesis behind your question about
                        > artillery at Fox's? It seems clear there were artillery units
                        > present
                        > and engaged, vis:
                        > At about half a mile from the summit, at Fox's Gap, the
                        > enemy had opened upon Scammon with case shot from the edge of the
                        > timber above the open fields ... about 9 o'clock. Bayonets were
                        > fixed,
                        > and at the word the lines charged forward with loud hurrahs. The
                        > enemy
                        > opened with musketry and shrapnel ... the cover of the forest had
                        > enabled the enemy's guns to get away toward our right ... About noon
                        > the combat was reduced to one of artillery, and the enemy's guns had
                        > so completely the range of the sloping fields behind us that their
                        > canister shot cut long furrows in the sod, with a noise like the
                        > cutting of a melon rind.
                        > (Jacob Cox, Kanawha Division, years later in Battles and Leaders)
                        > Brian
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
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                      • Brian Downey
                        I withdraw my nomination of Wofford as interim commander of the division while Hood was under arrest. It clearly was not he. I should learn not to guess on
                        Message 11 of 23 , Apr 21, 2006
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                          I withdraw my nomination of Wofford as interim commander of the
                          division while Hood was under arrest. It clearly was not he. I should
                          learn not to guess on the fly.

                          I agree with Harry's find from STS. I could find no better answer in
                          a search of materials last night.

                          --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, "Harry Smeltzer" <hjs21@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > Harsh, STS, page 57:
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > "Longstreet apparently had a penchant for three-brigade divisions,
                          an, at
                          > some point during the Second Manassas Campaign, ha assigned Evans's
                          brigade,
                          > recently arrived from South Carolina, to this [Hood's] division.
                          Whether he
                          > did so intentionally or not, he thereby succeeded Hood in command,
                          because
                          > Evans's commission was of an earlier date. Hood and Evans
                          apparently did
                          > not get along, and on August 31, over a question of captured wagons,
                          Evans
                          > placed Hood under arrest, where he remained until September 14.
                          Presumably,
                          > although evidence is lacking, Evans commanded the division in the
                          > intervening two weeks."
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > So he says evidence is lacking and logic prevails. I don't think
                          I'm going
                          > to be able to improve on that.
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > Harry
                          >
                        • G E Mayers
                          Brian; No problem. I have STS also and will check out the pages Harry mentioned. Yr. Obt. Svt. G E Gerry Mayers To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage,
                          Message 12 of 23 , Apr 24, 2006
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                            Brian;

                            No problem.

                            I have STS also and will check out the pages Harry mentioned.

                            Yr. Obt. Svt.
                            G E "Gerry" Mayers

                            To Be A Virginian, either by birth, marriage, adoption, or even on
                            one's mother's side, is an introduction to any state in the Union, a
                            passport to any foreign country, and a benediction from the Almighty
                            God. --Anonymous
                            ----- Original Message -----
                            From: "Brian Downey" <bdowney@...>
                            To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                            Sent: Friday, April 21, 2006 3:25 PM
                            Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: September 14th questions


                            >I withdraw my nomination of Wofford as interim commander of the
                            > division while Hood was under arrest. It clearly was not he. I
                            > should
                            > learn not to guess on the fly.
                            >
                            > I agree with Harry's find from STS. I could find no better answer
                            > in
                            > a search of materials last night.
                            >
                            > --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, "Harry Smeltzer" <hjs21@...>
                            > wrote:
                            >>
                            >> Harsh, STS, page 57:
                            >>
                            >>
                            >>
                            >> "Longstreet apparently had a penchant for three-brigade divisions,
                            > an, at
                            >> some point during the Second Manassas Campaign, ha assigned Evans's
                            > brigade,
                            >> recently arrived from South Carolina, to this [Hood's] division.
                            > Whether he
                            >> did so intentionally or not, he thereby succeeded Hood in command,
                            > because
                            >> Evans's commission was of an earlier date. Hood and Evans
                            > apparently did
                            >> not get along, and on August 31, over a question of captured
                            >> wagons,
                            > Evans
                            >> placed Hood under arrest, where he remained until September 14.
                            > Presumably,
                            >> although evidence is lacking, Evans commanded the division in the
                            >> intervening two weeks."
                            >>
                            >>
                            >>
                            >> So he says evidence is lacking and logic prevails. I don't think
                            > I'm going
                            >> to be able to improve on that.
                            >>
                            >>
                            >>
                            >> Harry
                            >>
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
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