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Re: [TalkAntietam] Battery B at South Mountain

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  • Tom Clemens
    Wow Dave you have picked two myths to focus on. Myth One - the Iron Brigade - there were three units fighting at South Mt. that thought they were THE Iron
    Message 1 of 6 , Jul 18, 2001
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      Wow Dave you have picked two myths to focus on.
      Myth One - the Iron Brigade - there were three units fighting at South Mt. that
      thought they were THE Iron Brigade, which one do you mean?
      Myth Two - Buell NEVER served in Battery B 4th US. I know, he wrote a book, but
      look at his servicerecord sometime. While the letters to him from "comrades"
      may be factual, he is not to be trusted.


      David Lutton wrote:

      > As the Iron Brigade advanced up the National Road at South Mountain, a
      > section of Battery B, 4th US ( incidentally my favorite CW unit) was brought
      > forward in support. A. Buell in his history of the battery, THE CANNONEER,
      > and Col. Meredith of the 19th Indiana mention a cabin that was occupied by
      > numerous rebels. The section opened on the cabin and sent one round into
      > the upper story which quickly flushed out the said cabin of its southern
      > occupants.
      >
      > Does anyone have any idea where this cabin would have been located?
      >
      > David Lutton
      > ----- Original Message -----
      > From: Tom Clemens <clemens@...>
      > To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
      > Sent: Monday, June 11, 2001 10:50 AM
      > Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Carman-Cope
      >
      > > TR,
      > > I am probably telling you things you already know, but I hope you have the
      > > revised 1908 version of the 1904 atlas. Carman made significant changes
      > in
      > > 1908 and reissued the maps. As Kevin mentioned earlier, I have finished a
      > > complete transcription of his 1,800 page manuscript and am working on
      > > editing, notating and publishing it.
      > >
      > > TR Livesey wrote:
      > >
      > > > Brian Downey wrote:
      > > > >
      > > > > Hi group,
      > > > >
      > > > > I have been wondering for years, but never asked, is there a
      > > > > published source for the Antietam Battlefield Board Papers and/or
      > > > > maps? I gather from the grapevine that they may reside in the secret
      > > > > back-room at the Battlefield Visitor's Center, but I'm ashamed to
      > > > > admit I've never actually asked to see.
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > As far as I know, there is only the 1904 edition of the Atlas,
      > > > of which I am lucky enough to have a copy. It is quite spectacular
      > > > (elephant folio) and in color.
      > > >
      > > > I am currently in the process of geo-referencing the troop placements,
      > > > a task which will take quite some time to complete. Geo referencing
      > > > is assigning earth coordinates to features on maps, aerial photographs,
      > > > or satellite images.
      > > >
      > > > Here is a sample from plate 1 "Daybreak":
      > > >
      > > > http://www.enteract.com/~westwood/atlasClose.jpg
      > > >
      > > > Regards,
      > > > TR Livesey
      > > > westwood@...
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
      > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
      > >
      > >
      >
      >
      >
      > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
    • David Lutton
      Tom, I was under the impression that Buell joined the Battery in August of 63. I knew he was not at South Mountain and his account of same is derived from
      Message 2 of 6 , Jul 19, 2001
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        Tom,

        I was under the impression that Buell joined the Battery in August of '63.
        I knew he was not at South Mountain and his account of same is derived from
        others. That aside, his account is collaborated by Solomon Meredith in his
        report of the action at South Mountain. I believe Lt. Stewart's section
        was called up to support the advance as the 19th Indiana and the 2nd
        Wisconsin moved up the southside of the National Road and the 6th and 7th
        Wisconsin advanced to the North of the road. Col. Meredith mentions a round
        from the section going through the cabin and dislodging confederates. But
        looking at various maps of the Gorge area, I couldn't find a clue as to
        where Buell and Meredith were speaking. The cabin was supposed to be
        somewhere in the front of the 19 Indiana. Any thoughts?

        David Lutton
        ----- Original Message -----
        From: Tom Clemens <clemens@...>
        To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2001 2:13 AM
        Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Battery B at South Mountain


        > Wow Dave you have picked two myths to focus on.
        > Myth One - the Iron Brigade - there were three units fighting at South Mt.
        that
        > thought they were THE Iron Brigade, which one do you mean?
        > Myth Two - Buell NEVER served in Battery B 4th US. I know, he wrote a
        book, but
        > look at his servicerecord sometime. While the letters to him from
        "comrades"
        > may be factual, he is not to be trusted.
        >
        >
        > David Lutton wrote:
        >
        > > As the Iron Brigade advanced up the National Road at South Mountain, a
        > > section of Battery B, 4th US ( incidentally my favorite CW unit) was
        brought
        > > forward in support. A. Buell in his history of the battery, THE
        CANNONEER,
        > > and Col. Meredith of the 19th Indiana mention a cabin that was occupied
        by
        > > numerous rebels. The section opened on the cabin and sent one round
        into
        > > the upper story which quickly flushed out the said cabin of its
        southern
        > > occupants.
        > >
        > > Does anyone have any idea where this cabin would have been located?
        > >
        > > David Lutton
        > > ----- Original Message -----
        > > From: Tom Clemens <clemens@...>
        > > To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
        > > Sent: Monday, June 11, 2001 10:50 AM
        > > Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Carman-Cope
        > >
        > > > TR,
        > > > I am probably telling you things you already know, but I hope you have
        the
        > > > revised 1908 version of the 1904 atlas. Carman made significant
        changes
        > > in
        > > > 1908 and reissued the maps. As Kevin mentioned earlier, I have
        finished a
        > > > complete transcription of his 1,800 page manuscript and am working on
        > > > editing, notating and publishing it.
        > > >
        > > > TR Livesey wrote:
        > > >
        > > > > Brian Downey wrote:
        > > > > >
        > > > > > Hi group,
        > > > > >
        > > > > > I have been wondering for years, but never asked, is there a
        > > > > > published source for the Antietam Battlefield Board Papers and/or
        > > > > > maps? I gather from the grapevine that they may reside in the
        secret
        > > > > > back-room at the Battlefield Visitor's Center, but I'm ashamed to
        > > > > > admit I've never actually asked to see.
        > > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > > As far as I know, there is only the 1904 edition of the Atlas,
        > > > > of which I am lucky enough to have a copy. It is quite spectacular
        > > > > (elephant folio) and in color.
        > > > >
        > > > > I am currently in the process of geo-referencing the troop
        placements,
        > > > > a task which will take quite some time to complete. Geo referencing
        > > > > is assigning earth coordinates to features on maps, aerial
        photographs,
        > > > > or satellite images.
        > > > >
        > > > > Here is a sample from plate 1 "Daybreak":
        > > > >
        > > > > http://www.enteract.com/~westwood/atlasClose.jpg
        > > > >
        > > > > Regards,
        > > > > TR Livesey
        > > > > westwood@...
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
        > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
        http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
        > > >
        > > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
        http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
        >
        >
      • John Priest
        Dave: From what I can gather the cabin was on the property where the big horse farm is, west of the crossroad to Reno Monument Road and south of the toll house
        Message 3 of 6 , Jul 19, 2001
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          Dave:

          From what I can gather the cabin was on the property where the big horse
          farm is, west of the crossroad to Reno Monument Road and south of the toll
          house on the National Pike.

          Mike Priest


          -----Original Message-----
          From: David Lutton <dunkerch@...>
          To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
          Date: Wednesday, July 18, 2001 9:55 PM
          Subject: [TalkAntietam] Battery B at South Mountain


          >As the Iron Brigade advanced up the National Road at South Mountain, a
          >section of Battery B, 4th US ( incidentally my favorite CW unit) was
          brought
          >forward in support. A. Buell in his history of the battery, THE CANNONEER,
          >and Col. Meredith of the 19th Indiana mention a cabin that was occupied by
          >numerous rebels. The section opened on the cabin and sent one round into
          >the upper story which quickly flushed out the said cabin of its southern
          >occupants.
          >
          >Does anyone have any idea where this cabin would have been located?
          >
          >David Lutton
          >----- Original Message -----
          >From: Tom Clemens <clemens@...>
          >To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
          >Sent: Monday, June 11, 2001 10:50 AM
          >Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Carman-Cope
          >
          >
          >> TR,
          >> I am probably telling you things you already know, but I hope you have
          the
          >> revised 1908 version of the 1904 atlas. Carman made significant changes
          >in
          >> 1908 and reissued the maps. As Kevin mentioned earlier, I have finished
          a
          >> complete transcription of his 1,800 page manuscript and am working on
          >> editing, notating and publishing it.
          >>
          >> TR Livesey wrote:
          >>
          >> > Brian Downey wrote:
          >> > >
          >> > > Hi group,
          >> > >
          >> > > I have been wondering for years, but never asked, is there a
          >> > > published source for the Antietam Battlefield Board Papers and/or
          >> > > maps? I gather from the grapevine that they may reside in the secret
          >> > > back-room at the Battlefield Visitor's Center, but I'm ashamed to
          >> > > admit I've never actually asked to see.
          >> > >
          >> >
          >> > As far as I know, there is only the 1904 edition of the Atlas,
          >> > of which I am lucky enough to have a copy. It is quite spectacular
          >> > (elephant folio) and in color.
          >> >
          >> > I am currently in the process of geo-referencing the troop placements,
          >> > a task which will take quite some time to complete. Geo referencing
          >> > is assigning earth coordinates to features on maps, aerial photographs,
          >> > or satellite images.
          >> >
          >> > Here is a sample from plate 1 "Daybreak":
          >> >
          >> > http://www.enteract.com/~westwood/atlasClose.jpg
          >> >
          >> > Regards,
          >> > TR Livesey
          >> > westwood@...
          >> >
          >> >
          >> >
          >> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
          >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
          >>
          >>
          >>
          >>
          >> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
          >>
          >>
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
          >
          >
          >
        • Tom Clemens
          David, There was an article published in 1956 entitled Augustus Buell - Fradulent Historian, that says it all. he was never in Battery B, but passed himself
          Message 4 of 6 , Jul 19, 2001
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            David,
            There was an article published in 1956 entitled Augustus Buell - Fradulent
            Historian, that says it all. he was never in Battery B, but passed himself off
            as though he was, and got lots of guys memoirs, which he published. Brian
            Pohanka and I agree thatthere must be some validity to what he says, but little
            if any from personal experience. BTW, in 1993 a fellow in G-burg magazine
            refuted the 1956 article, so take your choice.
            The house is on the Fox's Gap road, about 350 yards downhill from where it
            strikes the National Road. I don't think the same house is there today, but
            that is best left to the reaal South Mt. scholars.


            David Lutton wrote:

            > Tom,
            >
            > I was under the impression that Buell joined the Battery in August of '63.
            > I knew he was not at South Mountain and his account of same is derived from
            > others. That aside, his account is collaborated by Solomon Meredith in his
            > report of the action at South Mountain. I believe Lt. Stewart's section
            > was called up to support the advance as the 19th Indiana and the 2nd
            > Wisconsin moved up the southside of the National Road and the 6th and 7th
            > Wisconsin advanced to the North of the road. Col. Meredith mentions a round
            > from the section going through the cabin and dislodging confederates. But
            > looking at various maps of the Gorge area, I couldn't find a clue as to
            > where Buell and Meredith were speaking. The cabin was supposed to be
            > somewhere in the front of the 19 Indiana. Any thoughts?
            >
            > David Lutton
            > ----- Original Message -----
            > From: Tom Clemens <clemens@...>
            > To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
            > Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2001 2:13 AM
            > Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Battery B at South Mountain
            >
            > > Wow Dave you have picked two myths to focus on.
            > > Myth One - the Iron Brigade - there were three units fighting at South Mt.
            > that
            > > thought they were THE Iron Brigade, which one do you mean?
            > > Myth Two - Buell NEVER served in Battery B 4th US. I know, he wrote a
            > book, but
            > > look at his servicerecord sometime. While the letters to him from
            > "comrades"
            > > may be factual, he is not to be trusted.
            > >
            > >
            > > David Lutton wrote:
            > >
            > > > As the Iron Brigade advanced up the National Road at South Mountain, a
            > > > section of Battery B, 4th US ( incidentally my favorite CW unit) was
            > brought
            > > > forward in support. A. Buell in his history of the battery, THE
            > CANNONEER,
            > > > and Col. Meredith of the 19th Indiana mention a cabin that was occupied
            > by
            > > > numerous rebels. The section opened on the cabin and sent one round
            > into
            > > > the upper story which quickly flushed out the said cabin of its
            > southern
            > > > occupants.
            > > >
            > > > Does anyone have any idea where this cabin would have been located?
            > > >
            > > > David Lutton
            > > > ----- Original Message -----
            > > > From: Tom Clemens <clemens@...>
            > > > To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
            > > > Sent: Monday, June 11, 2001 10:50 AM
            > > > Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Carman-Cope
            > > >
            > > > > TR,
            > > > > I am probably telling you things you already know, but I hope you have
            > the
            > > > > revised 1908 version of the 1904 atlas. Carman made significant
            > changes
            > > > in
            > > > > 1908 and reissued the maps. As Kevin mentioned earlier, I have
            > finished a
            > > > > complete transcription of his 1,800 page manuscript and am working on
            > > > > editing, notating and publishing it.
            > > > >
            > > > > TR Livesey wrote:
            > > > >
            > > > > > Brian Downey wrote:
            > > > > > >
            > > > > > > Hi group,
            > > > > > >
            > > > > > > I have been wondering for years, but never asked, is there a
            > > > > > > published source for the Antietam Battlefield Board Papers and/or
            > > > > > > maps? I gather from the grapevine that they may reside in the
            > secret
            > > > > > > back-room at the Battlefield Visitor's Center, but I'm ashamed to
            > > > > > > admit I've never actually asked to see.
            > > > > > >
            > > > > >
            > > > > > As far as I know, there is only the 1904 edition of the Atlas,
            > > > > > of which I am lucky enough to have a copy. It is quite spectacular
            > > > > > (elephant folio) and in color.
            > > > > >
            > > > > > I am currently in the process of geo-referencing the troop
            > placements,
            > > > > > a task which will take quite some time to complete. Geo referencing
            > > > > > is assigning earth coordinates to features on maps, aerial
            > photographs,
            > > > > > or satellite images.
            > > > > >
            > > > > > Here is a sample from plate 1 "Daybreak":
            > > > > >
            > > > > > http://www.enteract.com/~westwood/atlasClose.jpg
            > > > > >
            > > > > > Regards,
            > > > > > TR Livesey
            > > > > > westwood@...
            > > > > >
            > > > > >
            > > > > >
            > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
            > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
            > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
            > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
            > >
            > >
            >
            >
            >
            > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
          • David Lutton
            Tom and Mike thanks for the help. I will use the info on my next trip down to Md. David Lutton ... From: Tom Clemens To:
            Message 5 of 6 , Jul 21, 2001
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              Tom and Mike thanks for the help. I will use the info on my next trip down
              to Md.

              David Lutton
              ----- Original Message -----
              From: Tom Clemens <clemens@...>
              To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2001 10:49 PM
              Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Battery B at South Mountain


              > David,
              > There was an article published in 1956 entitled Augustus Buell - Fradulent
              > Historian, that says it all. he was never in Battery B, but passed
              himself off
              > as though he was, and got lots of guys memoirs, which he published. Brian
              > Pohanka and I agree thatthere must be some validity to what he says, but
              little
              > if any from personal experience. BTW, in 1993 a fellow in G-burg magazine
              > refuted the 1956 article, so take your choice.
              > The house is on the Fox's Gap road, about 350 yards downhill from where it
              > strikes the National Road. I don't think the same house is there today,
              but
              > that is best left to the reaal South Mt. scholars.
              >
              >
              > David Lutton wrote:
              >
              > > Tom,
              > >
              > > I was under the impression that Buell joined the Battery in August of
              '63.
              > > I knew he was not at South Mountain and his account of same is derived
              from
              > > others. That aside, his account is collaborated by Solomon Meredith in
              his
              > > report of the action at South Mountain. I believe Lt. Stewart's
              section
              > > was called up to support the advance as the 19th Indiana and the 2nd
              > > Wisconsin moved up the southside of the National Road and the 6th and
              7th
              > > Wisconsin advanced to the North of the road. Col. Meredith mentions a
              round
              > > from the section going through the cabin and dislodging confederates.
              But
              > > looking at various maps of the Gorge area, I couldn't find a clue as to
              > > where Buell and Meredith were speaking. The cabin was supposed to be
              > > somewhere in the front of the 19 Indiana. Any thoughts?
              > >
              > > David Lutton
              > > ----- Original Message -----
              > > From: Tom Clemens <clemens@...>
              > > To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
              > > Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2001 2:13 AM
              > > Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Battery B at South Mountain
              > >
              > > > Wow Dave you have picked two myths to focus on.
              > > > Myth One - the Iron Brigade - there were three units fighting at South
              Mt.
              > > that
              > > > thought they were THE Iron Brigade, which one do you mean?
              > > > Myth Two - Buell NEVER served in Battery B 4th US. I know, he wrote a
              > > book, but
              > > > look at his servicerecord sometime. While the letters to him from
              > > "comrades"
              > > > may be factual, he is not to be trusted.
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > David Lutton wrote:
              > > >
              > > > > As the Iron Brigade advanced up the National Road at South Mountain,
              a
              > > > > section of Battery B, 4th US ( incidentally my favorite CW unit) was
              > > brought
              > > > > forward in support. A. Buell in his history of the battery, THE
              > > CANNONEER,
              > > > > and Col. Meredith of the 19th Indiana mention a cabin that was
              occupied
              > > by
              > > > > numerous rebels. The section opened on the cabin and sent one round
              > > into
              > > > > the upper story which quickly flushed out the said cabin of its
              > > southern
              > > > > occupants.
              > > > >
              > > > > Does anyone have any idea where this cabin would have been located?
              > > > >
              > > > > David Lutton
              > > > > ----- Original Message -----
              > > > > From: Tom Clemens <clemens@...>
              > > > > To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
              > > > > Sent: Monday, June 11, 2001 10:50 AM
              > > > > Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Carman-Cope
              > > > >
              > > > > > TR,
              > > > > > I am probably telling you things you already know, but I hope you
              have
              > > the
              > > > > > revised 1908 version of the 1904 atlas. Carman made significant
              > > changes
              > > > > in
              > > > > > 1908 and reissued the maps. As Kevin mentioned earlier, I have
              > > finished a
              > > > > > complete transcription of his 1,800 page manuscript and am working
              on
              > > > > > editing, notating and publishing it.
              > > > > >
              > > > > > TR Livesey wrote:
              > > > > >
              > > > > > > Brian Downey wrote:
              > > > > > > >
              > > > > > > > Hi group,
              > > > > > > >
              > > > > > > > I have been wondering for years, but never asked, is there a
              > > > > > > > published source for the Antietam Battlefield Board Papers
              and/or
              > > > > > > > maps? I gather from the grapevine that they may reside in the
              > > secret
              > > > > > > > back-room at the Battlefield Visitor's Center, but I'm ashamed
              to
              > > > > > > > admit I've never actually asked to see.
              > > > > > > >
              > > > > > >
              > > > > > > As far as I know, there is only the 1904 edition of the Atlas,
              > > > > > > of which I am lucky enough to have a copy. It is quite
              spectacular
              > > > > > > (elephant folio) and in color.
              > > > > > >
              > > > > > > I am currently in the process of geo-referencing the troop
              > > placements,
              > > > > > > a task which will take quite some time to complete. Geo
              referencing
              > > > > > > is assigning earth coordinates to features on maps, aerial
              > > photographs,
              > > > > > > or satellite images.
              > > > > > >
              > > > > > > Here is a sample from plate 1 "Daybreak":
              > > > > > >
              > > > > > > http://www.enteract.com/~westwood/atlasClose.jpg
              > > > > > >
              > > > > > > Regards,
              > > > > > > TR Livesey
              > > > > > > westwood@...
              > > > > > >
              > > > > > >
              > > > > > >
              > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
              > > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
              > > > > >
              > > > > >
              > > > > >
              > > > > >
              > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
              > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
              > > > > >
              > > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
              > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
              http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
              > > >
              > > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
              http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
              >
              >
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