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Re: McClellan Post-War Visit(s) to Antietam?

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  • philipkesaris
    Thanks! I suspect Mac was invited to the dedication of the cemetery, but didn t show up. I was at the field today (sunny but freezing cold) and walked the 1.7
    Message 1 of 18 , Feb 19, 2006
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      Thanks! I suspect Mac was invited to the dedication of the cemetery,
      but didn't show up. I was at the field today (sunny but freezing
      cold) and walked the 1.7 mile "final attack" trail, which was really
      tremendous. There was one secluded area of very low ground in Otto's
      40-acre cornfield where A.P. Hill's men slaughtered the Connecticut
      and Rhode Island boys. It's easy to picture what happened from the
      terrain. I couldn't help but be reminded of the Crater scene at
      Petersburg. I'm not a superstitious guy, but the place actually
      spooked me. Anyway, the trail is a great addition to the park!
      Regards, - Phil



      --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, "barringer63" <teej@...> wrote:
      >
      > Gerry Mayers wrote:
      > >
      > > Phil;
      > >
      > > I think Mac did only visit the field once after the War. IIRC, he
      > was
      > > supposed to visit in 1885 but had unexpectedly died of a heart
      > attack.
      >
      > Kyd Douglas wrote, "It is apropos to recall here the visit of
      > General McClellan to Sharpsburg on the 30th of May, 1885, the first
      > and only time he ever visited it after the battle of Antietam."
      > "...He further stated that he firmly believed that if he had
      > been defeated in the battle he would have been tried, cashiered,
      and
      > perhaps shot. He repeated the statement that evening at a dinner
      > given to him and his party by ex-Governor William T. Hamilton; and
      > also the further curious statement that when the Antietam National
      > Cemetery was dedicated on the 17th of September, 1867, he was not
      > asked to take any part in the ceremonies and was not even invited
      to
      > be present."
      > McClellan died Oct. 29, 1885.
      >
      > Regards,
      > Teej
      >
    • Thomas Clemens
      Yes, that new trail is pretty nice. They still need to do some work there. We cut a lot of trees last month, and hope to do some more before spring. I was
      Message 2 of 18 , Feb 19, 2006
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        Yes, that new trail is pretty nice. They still need to do some work
        there. We cut a lot of trees last month, and hope to do some more
        before spring. I was there yesterday, which I think even colder.
        Luckily I had a complete goretex suit, and walked the Snavely Ford trail
        with our dog. Not too cold.

        Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
        Professor of History
        Hagerstown Community College


        >>> philipkesaris@... 02/19/06 4:31 PM >>>
      • philipkesaris
        Agreed Tom. I sat on the edge of that 12th Ohio Monument with my Carman map and the nice Park Service brochure ( The Final Attack Trail )and finally figured
        Message 3 of 18 , Feb 19, 2006
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          Agreed Tom. I sat on the edge of that 12th Ohio Monument with my
          Carman map and the nice Park Service brochure ("The Final Attack
          Trail")and finally figured out the whole end game of the battle.
          Phenomenal view, as were the views at stops 2-4, especially this time
          of year. The whole trail was deserted - dead quiet all afternoon. I
          was wondering if that hackberry tree next to the stone wall at stop 6
          (the extreme southern end of NPS property) was a "witness" tree? I
          imagined it was anyway... The low ground between 6 and 7 gave me a
          whole new appreciation for the plight of the 4th RI and 16th
          Connecticut -- talk about a tight spot to be in... Very chilling
          area... You can't appreciate it from any book - you gotta see the
          ground, as I'm sure you know well. Let me know when more work needs
          to be done on this trail (or anywhere else for that matter); I'd be
          happy to help SHAF out. Take care, - Phil

          PS: I especially enjoy it when Jeff gets going about Little Mac.
          Very entertaining to read the back and forth over the years!



          --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, "Thomas Clemens" <clemenst@...>
          wrote:
          >
          > Yes, that new trail is pretty nice. They still need to do some work
          > there. We cut a lot of trees last month, and hope to do some more
          > before spring. I was there yesterday, which I think even colder.
          > Luckily I had a complete goretex suit, and walked the Snavely Ford
          trail
          > with our dog. Not too cold.
          >
          > Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
          > Professor of History
          > Hagerstown Community College
          >
          >
          > >>> philipkesaris@... 02/19/06 4:31 PM >>>
          >
        • Jeff Beckner (PWC Magazine)
          I know. He visited the field long enough to be talked out of an attack by a guy whose opinions he usually had nothing but contempt for. ... From:
          Message 4 of 18 , Feb 20, 2006
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            I know. He visited the field long enough to be talked out of an attack
            by a guy whose opinions he usually had nothing but contempt for.

            -----Original Message-----
            From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com]
            On Behalf Of Thomas Clemens
            Sent: Sunday, February 19, 2006 9:30 AM
            To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: RE: [TalkAntietam] McClellan Post-War Visit(s) to Antietam?

            Not surprising, given your predilictions, but also factually incorrect.
            (Sorry, couldn't resist!)

            Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
            Professor of History
            Hagerstown Community College


            >>> jbeckner@... 02/18/06 8:57 PM >>>





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          • Jeff Beckner (PWC Magazine)
            A vain but unstable man, who sat a horse well and wanted to be president. Proceed. ... From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com]
            Message 5 of 18 , Feb 20, 2006
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              A vain but unstable man, who sat a horse well and wanted to be
              president.

              Proceed.

              -----Original Message-----
              From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com]
              On Behalf Of Harry Smeltzer
              Sent: Sunday, February 19, 2006 9:37 AM
              To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: RE: [TalkAntietam] McClellan Post-War Visit(s) to Antietam?

              Damn Tom. After all these years, you still take the bait!



              Now you know Jeff's just going to try to use this to bring up something
              totally unrelated - "Oh yeah? Well, he was rude to the President. And
              he said nasty things about other people in private letters to his wife!
              And he was short, too." Then we'll have to listen to the same old tired
              Williamsisms all over again.



              Harry



              -----Original Message-----
              From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com]
              On Behalf Of Thomas Clemens
              Sent: Sunday, February 19, 2006 10:30 AM
              To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: RE: [TalkAntietam] McClellan Post-War Visit(s) to Antietam?



              Not surprising, given your predilictions, but also factually incorrect.
              (Sorry, couldn't resist!)

              Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
              Professor of History
              Hagerstown Community College


              >>> jbeckner@... 02/18/06 8:57 PM >>>









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            • Jeff Beckner (PWC Magazine)
              I knew I was in error, but I was hardly going to let that stand in the way of a cheap shot at Tardy George. Taney said in Dred Scott that a black man had no
              Message 6 of 18 , Feb 20, 2006
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                I knew I was in error, but I was hardly going to let that stand in the
                way of a cheap shot at Tardy George.

                Taney said in Dred Scott that a black man had no rights a white man was
                bound to respect. I pretty much think Mac at Antietam is fair game in
                more or less the same way.

                -----Original Message-----
                From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com]
                On Behalf Of barringer63
                Sent: Sunday, February 19, 2006 9:54 AM
                To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: McClellan Post-War Visit(s) to Antietam?

                Harry Smeltzer wrote:
                >
                > Damn Tom. After all these years, you still take the bait!

                Both you and Tom are just like guppies when it comes to this. Tom
                merely commented that Jeff was in error but you, Harry, have given Jeff
                an outline for at least a week's worth of discussion.

                Teej









                Yahoo! Groups Links
              • Harry Smeltzer
                What does Sykes have to do with this? I have long seen the similarities between you and Tanney. The two of you are equally admirable. Harry ... From:
                Message 7 of 18 , Feb 20, 2006
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                  What does Sykes have to do with this?



                  I have long seen the similarities between you and Tanney. The two of you
                  are equally admirable.



                  Harry



                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com] On
                  Behalf Of Jeff Beckner (PWC Magazine)
                  Sent: Monday, February 20, 2006 9:16 AM
                  To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: RE: [TalkAntietam] Re: McClellan Post-War Visit(s) to Antietam?



                  I knew I was in error, but I was hardly going to let that stand in the
                  way of a cheap shot at Tardy George.

                  Taney said in Dred Scott that a black man had no rights a white man was
                  bound to respect. I pretty much think Mac at Antietam is fair game in
                  more or less the same way.

                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com]
                  On Behalf Of barringer63
                  Sent: Sunday, February 19, 2006 9:54 AM
                  To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: McClellan Post-War Visit(s) to Antietam?

                  Harry Smeltzer wrote:
                  >
                  > Damn Tom. After all these years, you still take the bait!

                  Both you and Tom are just like guppies when it comes to this. Tom
                  merely commented that Jeff was in error but you, Harry, have given Jeff
                  an outline for at least a week's worth of discussion.

                  Teej









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                • Jeff Beckner (PWC Magazine)
                  You ll pay for that. ... From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Harry Smeltzer Sent: Monday, February 20, 2006
                  Message 8 of 18 , Feb 20, 2006
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                    You'll pay for that.

                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com]
                    On Behalf Of Harry Smeltzer
                    Sent: Monday, February 20, 2006 8:31 AM
                    To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: RE: [TalkAntietam] Re: McClellan Post-War Visit(s) to Antietam?

                    What does Sykes have to do with this?



                    I have long seen the similarities between you and Tanney. The two of
                    you are equally admirable.



                    Harry



                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com]
                    On Behalf Of Jeff Beckner (PWC Magazine)
                    Sent: Monday, February 20, 2006 9:16 AM
                    To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: RE: [TalkAntietam] Re: McClellan Post-War Visit(s) to Antietam?



                    I knew I was in error, but I was hardly going to let that stand in the
                    way of a cheap shot at Tardy George.

                    Taney said in Dred Scott that a black man had no rights a white man was
                    bound to respect. I pretty much think Mac at Antietam is fair game in
                    more or less the same way.

                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com]
                    On Behalf Of barringer63
                    Sent: Sunday, February 19, 2006 9:54 AM
                    To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: McClellan Post-War Visit(s) to Antietam?

                    Harry Smeltzer wrote:
                    >
                    > Damn Tom. After all these years, you still take the bait!

                    Both you and Tom are just like guppies when it comes to this. Tom
                    merely commented that Jeff was in error but you, Harry, have given Jeff
                    an outline for at least a week's worth of discussion.

                    Teej









                    Yahoo! Groups Links














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                  • Harry Smeltzer
                    Are you saying you are not as admirable as Justice Tanney? Don t sell yourself short, Judge. Harry ... From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                    Message 9 of 18 , Feb 20, 2006
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                      Are you saying you are not as admirable as Justice Tanney?



                      Don't sell yourself short, Judge.



                      Harry



                      -----Original Message-----
                      From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com] On
                      Behalf Of Jeff Beckner (PWC Magazine)
                      Sent: Monday, February 20, 2006 10:15 AM
                      To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: RE: [TalkAntietam] Re: McClellan Post-War Visit(s) to Antietam?



                      You'll pay for that.

                      -----Original Message-----
                      From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com]
                      On Behalf Of Harry Smeltzer
                      Sent: Monday, February 20, 2006 8:31 AM
                      To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: RE: [TalkAntietam] Re: McClellan Post-War Visit(s) to Antietam?

                      What does Sykes have to do with this?



                      I have long seen the similarities between you and Tanney. The two of
                      you are equally admirable.



                      Harry



                      -----Original Message-----
                      From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com]
                      On Behalf Of Jeff Beckner (PWC Magazine)
                      Sent: Monday, February 20, 2006 9:16 AM
                      To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: RE: [TalkAntietam] Re: McClellan Post-War Visit(s) to Antietam?



                      I knew I was in error, but I was hardly going to let that stand in the
                      way of a cheap shot at Tardy George.

                      Taney said in Dred Scott that a black man had no rights a white man was
                      bound to respect. I pretty much think Mac at Antietam is fair game in
                      more or less the same way.

                      -----Original Message-----
                      From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com]
                      On Behalf Of barringer63
                      Sent: Sunday, February 19, 2006 9:54 AM
                      To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: McClellan Post-War Visit(s) to Antietam?

                      Harry Smeltzer wrote:
                      >
                      > Damn Tom. After all these years, you still take the bait!

                      Both you and Tom are just like guppies when it comes to this. Tom
                      merely commented that Jeff was in error but you, Harry, have given Jeff
                      an outline for at least a week's worth of discussion.

                      Teej









                      Yahoo! Groups Links














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                    • Thomas Clemens
                      Weak Jeff. But please do keep flailing away. You re bound to hit something, sometime. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      Message 10 of 18 , Feb 20, 2006
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                        Weak Jeff. But please do keep flailing away. You're bound to hit
                        something, sometime.



                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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