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RE: [TalkAntietam] McClellan Post-War Visit(s) to Antietam?

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  • Harry Smeltzer
    Damn Tom. After all these years, you still take the bait! Now you know Jeff s just going to try to use this to bring up something totally unrelated - Oh
    Message 1 of 18 , Feb 19, 2006
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      Damn Tom. After all these years, you still take the bait!



      Now you know Jeff's just going to try to use this to bring up something
      totally unrelated - "Oh yeah? Well, he was rude to the President. And he
      said nasty things about other people in private letters to his wife! And he
      was short, too." Then we'll have to listen to the same old tired
      Williamsisms all over again.



      Harry



      -----Original Message-----
      From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com] On
      Behalf Of Thomas Clemens
      Sent: Sunday, February 19, 2006 10:30 AM
      To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: RE: [TalkAntietam] McClellan Post-War Visit(s) to Antietam?



      Not surprising, given your predilictions, but also factually incorrect.
      (Sorry, couldn't resist!)

      Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
      Professor of History
      Hagerstown Community College


      >>> jbeckner@... 02/18/06 8:57 PM >>>









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    • barringer63
      ... Both you and Tom are just like guppies when it comes to this. Tom merely commented that Jeff was in error but you, Harry, have given Jeff an outline for at
      Message 2 of 18 , Feb 19, 2006
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        Harry Smeltzer wrote:
        >
        > Damn Tom. After all these years, you still take the bait!

        Both you and Tom are just like guppies when it comes to this. Tom
        merely commented that Jeff was in error but you, Harry, have given
        Jeff an outline for at least a week's worth of discussion.

        Teej
      • Harry Smeltzer
        Like he needs an outline. ... From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of barringer63 Sent: Sunday, February 19, 2006
        Message 3 of 18 , Feb 19, 2006
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          Like he needs an outline.



          -----Original Message-----
          From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com] On
          Behalf Of barringer63
          Sent: Sunday, February 19, 2006 10:54 AM
          To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: McClellan Post-War Visit(s) to Antietam?



          Harry Smeltzer wrote:
          >
          > Damn Tom. After all these years, you still take the bait!

          Both you and Tom are just like guppies when it comes to this. Tom
          merely commented that Jeff was in error but you, Harry, have given
          Jeff an outline for at least a week's worth of discussion.

          Teej













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        • philipkesaris
          Thanks! I suspect Mac was invited to the dedication of the cemetery, but didn t show up. I was at the field today (sunny but freezing cold) and walked the 1.7
          Message 4 of 18 , Feb 19, 2006
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            Thanks! I suspect Mac was invited to the dedication of the cemetery,
            but didn't show up. I was at the field today (sunny but freezing
            cold) and walked the 1.7 mile "final attack" trail, which was really
            tremendous. There was one secluded area of very low ground in Otto's
            40-acre cornfield where A.P. Hill's men slaughtered the Connecticut
            and Rhode Island boys. It's easy to picture what happened from the
            terrain. I couldn't help but be reminded of the Crater scene at
            Petersburg. I'm not a superstitious guy, but the place actually
            spooked me. Anyway, the trail is a great addition to the park!
            Regards, - Phil



            --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, "barringer63" <teej@...> wrote:
            >
            > Gerry Mayers wrote:
            > >
            > > Phil;
            > >
            > > I think Mac did only visit the field once after the War. IIRC, he
            > was
            > > supposed to visit in 1885 but had unexpectedly died of a heart
            > attack.
            >
            > Kyd Douglas wrote, "It is apropos to recall here the visit of
            > General McClellan to Sharpsburg on the 30th of May, 1885, the first
            > and only time he ever visited it after the battle of Antietam."
            > "...He further stated that he firmly believed that if he had
            > been defeated in the battle he would have been tried, cashiered,
            and
            > perhaps shot. He repeated the statement that evening at a dinner
            > given to him and his party by ex-Governor William T. Hamilton; and
            > also the further curious statement that when the Antietam National
            > Cemetery was dedicated on the 17th of September, 1867, he was not
            > asked to take any part in the ceremonies and was not even invited
            to
            > be present."
            > McClellan died Oct. 29, 1885.
            >
            > Regards,
            > Teej
            >
          • Thomas Clemens
            Yes, that new trail is pretty nice. They still need to do some work there. We cut a lot of trees last month, and hope to do some more before spring. I was
            Message 5 of 18 , Feb 19, 2006
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              Yes, that new trail is pretty nice. They still need to do some work
              there. We cut a lot of trees last month, and hope to do some more
              before spring. I was there yesterday, which I think even colder.
              Luckily I had a complete goretex suit, and walked the Snavely Ford trail
              with our dog. Not too cold.

              Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
              Professor of History
              Hagerstown Community College


              >>> philipkesaris@... 02/19/06 4:31 PM >>>
            • philipkesaris
              Agreed Tom. I sat on the edge of that 12th Ohio Monument with my Carman map and the nice Park Service brochure ( The Final Attack Trail )and finally figured
              Message 6 of 18 , Feb 19, 2006
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                Agreed Tom. I sat on the edge of that 12th Ohio Monument with my
                Carman map and the nice Park Service brochure ("The Final Attack
                Trail")and finally figured out the whole end game of the battle.
                Phenomenal view, as were the views at stops 2-4, especially this time
                of year. The whole trail was deserted - dead quiet all afternoon. I
                was wondering if that hackberry tree next to the stone wall at stop 6
                (the extreme southern end of NPS property) was a "witness" tree? I
                imagined it was anyway... The low ground between 6 and 7 gave me a
                whole new appreciation for the plight of the 4th RI and 16th
                Connecticut -- talk about a tight spot to be in... Very chilling
                area... You can't appreciate it from any book - you gotta see the
                ground, as I'm sure you know well. Let me know when more work needs
                to be done on this trail (or anywhere else for that matter); I'd be
                happy to help SHAF out. Take care, - Phil

                PS: I especially enjoy it when Jeff gets going about Little Mac.
                Very entertaining to read the back and forth over the years!



                --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, "Thomas Clemens" <clemenst@...>
                wrote:
                >
                > Yes, that new trail is pretty nice. They still need to do some work
                > there. We cut a lot of trees last month, and hope to do some more
                > before spring. I was there yesterday, which I think even colder.
                > Luckily I had a complete goretex suit, and walked the Snavely Ford
                trail
                > with our dog. Not too cold.
                >
                > Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
                > Professor of History
                > Hagerstown Community College
                >
                >
                > >>> philipkesaris@... 02/19/06 4:31 PM >>>
                >
              • Jeff Beckner (PWC Magazine)
                I know. He visited the field long enough to be talked out of an attack by a guy whose opinions he usually had nothing but contempt for. ... From:
                Message 7 of 18 , Feb 20, 2006
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                  I know. He visited the field long enough to be talked out of an attack
                  by a guy whose opinions he usually had nothing but contempt for.

                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com]
                  On Behalf Of Thomas Clemens
                  Sent: Sunday, February 19, 2006 9:30 AM
                  To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: RE: [TalkAntietam] McClellan Post-War Visit(s) to Antietam?

                  Not surprising, given your predilictions, but also factually incorrect.
                  (Sorry, couldn't resist!)

                  Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
                  Professor of History
                  Hagerstown Community College


                  >>> jbeckner@... 02/18/06 8:57 PM >>>





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                • Jeff Beckner (PWC Magazine)
                  A vain but unstable man, who sat a horse well and wanted to be president. Proceed. ... From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com]
                  Message 8 of 18 , Feb 20, 2006
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                    A vain but unstable man, who sat a horse well and wanted to be
                    president.

                    Proceed.

                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com]
                    On Behalf Of Harry Smeltzer
                    Sent: Sunday, February 19, 2006 9:37 AM
                    To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: RE: [TalkAntietam] McClellan Post-War Visit(s) to Antietam?

                    Damn Tom. After all these years, you still take the bait!



                    Now you know Jeff's just going to try to use this to bring up something
                    totally unrelated - "Oh yeah? Well, he was rude to the President. And
                    he said nasty things about other people in private letters to his wife!
                    And he was short, too." Then we'll have to listen to the same old tired
                    Williamsisms all over again.



                    Harry



                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com]
                    On Behalf Of Thomas Clemens
                    Sent: Sunday, February 19, 2006 10:30 AM
                    To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: RE: [TalkAntietam] McClellan Post-War Visit(s) to Antietam?



                    Not surprising, given your predilictions, but also factually incorrect.
                    (Sorry, couldn't resist!)

                    Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
                    Professor of History
                    Hagerstown Community College


                    >>> jbeckner@... 02/18/06 8:57 PM >>>









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                    war history

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                    ivil
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                  • Jeff Beckner (PWC Magazine)
                    I knew I was in error, but I was hardly going to let that stand in the way of a cheap shot at Tardy George. Taney said in Dred Scott that a black man had no
                    Message 9 of 18 , Feb 20, 2006
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                      I knew I was in error, but I was hardly going to let that stand in the
                      way of a cheap shot at Tardy George.

                      Taney said in Dred Scott that a black man had no rights a white man was
                      bound to respect. I pretty much think Mac at Antietam is fair game in
                      more or less the same way.

                      -----Original Message-----
                      From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com]
                      On Behalf Of barringer63
                      Sent: Sunday, February 19, 2006 9:54 AM
                      To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: McClellan Post-War Visit(s) to Antietam?

                      Harry Smeltzer wrote:
                      >
                      > Damn Tom. After all these years, you still take the bait!

                      Both you and Tom are just like guppies when it comes to this. Tom
                      merely commented that Jeff was in error but you, Harry, have given Jeff
                      an outline for at least a week's worth of discussion.

                      Teej









                      Yahoo! Groups Links
                    • Harry Smeltzer
                      What does Sykes have to do with this? I have long seen the similarities between you and Tanney. The two of you are equally admirable. Harry ... From:
                      Message 10 of 18 , Feb 20, 2006
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                        What does Sykes have to do with this?



                        I have long seen the similarities between you and Tanney. The two of you
                        are equally admirable.



                        Harry



                        -----Original Message-----
                        From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com] On
                        Behalf Of Jeff Beckner (PWC Magazine)
                        Sent: Monday, February 20, 2006 9:16 AM
                        To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: RE: [TalkAntietam] Re: McClellan Post-War Visit(s) to Antietam?



                        I knew I was in error, but I was hardly going to let that stand in the
                        way of a cheap shot at Tardy George.

                        Taney said in Dred Scott that a black man had no rights a white man was
                        bound to respect. I pretty much think Mac at Antietam is fair game in
                        more or less the same way.

                        -----Original Message-----
                        From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com]
                        On Behalf Of barringer63
                        Sent: Sunday, February 19, 2006 9:54 AM
                        To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: McClellan Post-War Visit(s) to Antietam?

                        Harry Smeltzer wrote:
                        >
                        > Damn Tom. After all these years, you still take the bait!

                        Both you and Tom are just like guppies when it comes to this. Tom
                        merely commented that Jeff was in error but you, Harry, have given Jeff
                        an outline for at least a week's worth of discussion.

                        Teej









                        Yahoo! Groups Links














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                      • Jeff Beckner (PWC Magazine)
                        You ll pay for that. ... From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Harry Smeltzer Sent: Monday, February 20, 2006
                        Message 11 of 18 , Feb 20, 2006
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                          You'll pay for that.

                          -----Original Message-----
                          From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com]
                          On Behalf Of Harry Smeltzer
                          Sent: Monday, February 20, 2006 8:31 AM
                          To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: RE: [TalkAntietam] Re: McClellan Post-War Visit(s) to Antietam?

                          What does Sykes have to do with this?



                          I have long seen the similarities between you and Tanney. The two of
                          you are equally admirable.



                          Harry



                          -----Original Message-----
                          From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com]
                          On Behalf Of Jeff Beckner (PWC Magazine)
                          Sent: Monday, February 20, 2006 9:16 AM
                          To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: RE: [TalkAntietam] Re: McClellan Post-War Visit(s) to Antietam?



                          I knew I was in error, but I was hardly going to let that stand in the
                          way of a cheap shot at Tardy George.

                          Taney said in Dred Scott that a black man had no rights a white man was
                          bound to respect. I pretty much think Mac at Antietam is fair game in
                          more or less the same way.

                          -----Original Message-----
                          From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com]
                          On Behalf Of barringer63
                          Sent: Sunday, February 19, 2006 9:54 AM
                          To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: McClellan Post-War Visit(s) to Antietam?

                          Harry Smeltzer wrote:
                          >
                          > Damn Tom. After all these years, you still take the bait!

                          Both you and Tom are just like guppies when it comes to this. Tom
                          merely commented that Jeff was in error but you, Harry, have given Jeff
                          an outline for at least a week's worth of discussion.

                          Teej









                          Yahoo! Groups Links














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                        • Harry Smeltzer
                          Are you saying you are not as admirable as Justice Tanney? Don t sell yourself short, Judge. Harry ... From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                          Message 12 of 18 , Feb 20, 2006
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                            Are you saying you are not as admirable as Justice Tanney?



                            Don't sell yourself short, Judge.



                            Harry



                            -----Original Message-----
                            From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com] On
                            Behalf Of Jeff Beckner (PWC Magazine)
                            Sent: Monday, February 20, 2006 10:15 AM
                            To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                            Subject: RE: [TalkAntietam] Re: McClellan Post-War Visit(s) to Antietam?



                            You'll pay for that.

                            -----Original Message-----
                            From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com]
                            On Behalf Of Harry Smeltzer
                            Sent: Monday, February 20, 2006 8:31 AM
                            To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                            Subject: RE: [TalkAntietam] Re: McClellan Post-War Visit(s) to Antietam?

                            What does Sykes have to do with this?



                            I have long seen the similarities between you and Tanney. The two of
                            you are equally admirable.



                            Harry



                            -----Original Message-----
                            From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com]
                            On Behalf Of Jeff Beckner (PWC Magazine)
                            Sent: Monday, February 20, 2006 9:16 AM
                            To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                            Subject: RE: [TalkAntietam] Re: McClellan Post-War Visit(s) to Antietam?



                            I knew I was in error, but I was hardly going to let that stand in the
                            way of a cheap shot at Tardy George.

                            Taney said in Dred Scott that a black man had no rights a white man was
                            bound to respect. I pretty much think Mac at Antietam is fair game in
                            more or less the same way.

                            -----Original Message-----
                            From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com]
                            On Behalf Of barringer63
                            Sent: Sunday, February 19, 2006 9:54 AM
                            To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                            Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: McClellan Post-War Visit(s) to Antietam?

                            Harry Smeltzer wrote:
                            >
                            > Damn Tom. After all these years, you still take the bait!

                            Both you and Tom are just like guppies when it comes to this. Tom
                            merely commented that Jeff was in error but you, Harry, have given Jeff
                            an outline for at least a week's worth of discussion.

                            Teej









                            Yahoo! Groups Links














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                          • Thomas Clemens
                            Weak Jeff. But please do keep flailing away. You re bound to hit something, sometime. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            Message 13 of 18 , Feb 20, 2006
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                              Weak Jeff. But please do keep flailing away. You're bound to hit
                              something, sometime.



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