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Re: McClellan Post-War Visit(s) to Antietam?

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  • barringer63
    ... was ... attack. Kyd Douglas wrote, It is apropos to recall here the visit of General McClellan to Sharpsburg on the 30th of May, 1885, the first and only
    Message 1 of 18 , Feb 18, 2006
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      Gerry Mayers wrote:
      >
      > Phil;
      >
      > I think Mac did only visit the field once after the War. IIRC, he
      was
      > supposed to visit in 1885 but had unexpectedly died of a heart
      attack.

      Kyd Douglas wrote, "It is apropos to recall here the visit of
      General McClellan to Sharpsburg on the 30th of May, 1885, the first
      and only time he ever visited it after the battle of Antietam."
      "...He further stated that he firmly believed that if he had
      been defeated in the battle he would have been tried, cashiered, and
      perhaps shot. He repeated the statement that evening at a dinner
      given to him and his party by ex-Governor William T. Hamilton; and
      also the further curious statement that when the Antietam National
      Cemetery was dedicated on the 17th of September, 1867, he was not
      asked to take any part in the ceremonies and was not even invited to
      be present."
      McClellan died Oct. 29, 1885.

      Regards,
      Teej
    • Thomas Clemens
      Not surprising, given your predilictions, but also factually incorrect. (Sorry, couldn t resist!) Thomas G. Clemens D.A. Professor of History Hagerstown
      Message 2 of 18 , Feb 19, 2006
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        Not surprising, given your predilictions, but also factually incorrect.
        (Sorry, couldn't resist!)

        Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
        Professor of History
        Hagerstown Community College


        >>> jbeckner@... 02/18/06 8:57 PM >>>
      • Harry Smeltzer
        Damn Tom. After all these years, you still take the bait! Now you know Jeff s just going to try to use this to bring up something totally unrelated - Oh
        Message 3 of 18 , Feb 19, 2006
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          Damn Tom. After all these years, you still take the bait!



          Now you know Jeff's just going to try to use this to bring up something
          totally unrelated - "Oh yeah? Well, he was rude to the President. And he
          said nasty things about other people in private letters to his wife! And he
          was short, too." Then we'll have to listen to the same old tired
          Williamsisms all over again.



          Harry



          -----Original Message-----
          From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com] On
          Behalf Of Thomas Clemens
          Sent: Sunday, February 19, 2006 10:30 AM
          To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: RE: [TalkAntietam] McClellan Post-War Visit(s) to Antietam?



          Not surprising, given your predilictions, but also factually incorrect.
          (Sorry, couldn't resist!)

          Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
          Professor of History
          Hagerstown Community College


          >>> jbeckner@... 02/18/06 8:57 PM >>>









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        • barringer63
          ... Both you and Tom are just like guppies when it comes to this. Tom merely commented that Jeff was in error but you, Harry, have given Jeff an outline for at
          Message 4 of 18 , Feb 19, 2006
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            Harry Smeltzer wrote:
            >
            > Damn Tom. After all these years, you still take the bait!

            Both you and Tom are just like guppies when it comes to this. Tom
            merely commented that Jeff was in error but you, Harry, have given
            Jeff an outline for at least a week's worth of discussion.

            Teej
          • Harry Smeltzer
            Like he needs an outline. ... From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of barringer63 Sent: Sunday, February 19, 2006
            Message 5 of 18 , Feb 19, 2006
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              Like he needs an outline.



              -----Original Message-----
              From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com] On
              Behalf Of barringer63
              Sent: Sunday, February 19, 2006 10:54 AM
              To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: McClellan Post-War Visit(s) to Antietam?



              Harry Smeltzer wrote:
              >
              > Damn Tom. After all these years, you still take the bait!

              Both you and Tom are just like guppies when it comes to this. Tom
              merely commented that Jeff was in error but you, Harry, have given
              Jeff an outline for at least a week's worth of discussion.

              Teej













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            • philipkesaris
              Thanks! I suspect Mac was invited to the dedication of the cemetery, but didn t show up. I was at the field today (sunny but freezing cold) and walked the 1.7
              Message 6 of 18 , Feb 19, 2006
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                Thanks! I suspect Mac was invited to the dedication of the cemetery,
                but didn't show up. I was at the field today (sunny but freezing
                cold) and walked the 1.7 mile "final attack" trail, which was really
                tremendous. There was one secluded area of very low ground in Otto's
                40-acre cornfield where A.P. Hill's men slaughtered the Connecticut
                and Rhode Island boys. It's easy to picture what happened from the
                terrain. I couldn't help but be reminded of the Crater scene at
                Petersburg. I'm not a superstitious guy, but the place actually
                spooked me. Anyway, the trail is a great addition to the park!
                Regards, - Phil



                --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, "barringer63" <teej@...> wrote:
                >
                > Gerry Mayers wrote:
                > >
                > > Phil;
                > >
                > > I think Mac did only visit the field once after the War. IIRC, he
                > was
                > > supposed to visit in 1885 but had unexpectedly died of a heart
                > attack.
                >
                > Kyd Douglas wrote, "It is apropos to recall here the visit of
                > General McClellan to Sharpsburg on the 30th of May, 1885, the first
                > and only time he ever visited it after the battle of Antietam."
                > "...He further stated that he firmly believed that if he had
                > been defeated in the battle he would have been tried, cashiered,
                and
                > perhaps shot. He repeated the statement that evening at a dinner
                > given to him and his party by ex-Governor William T. Hamilton; and
                > also the further curious statement that when the Antietam National
                > Cemetery was dedicated on the 17th of September, 1867, he was not
                > asked to take any part in the ceremonies and was not even invited
                to
                > be present."
                > McClellan died Oct. 29, 1885.
                >
                > Regards,
                > Teej
                >
              • Thomas Clemens
                Yes, that new trail is pretty nice. They still need to do some work there. We cut a lot of trees last month, and hope to do some more before spring. I was
                Message 7 of 18 , Feb 19, 2006
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                  Yes, that new trail is pretty nice. They still need to do some work
                  there. We cut a lot of trees last month, and hope to do some more
                  before spring. I was there yesterday, which I think even colder.
                  Luckily I had a complete goretex suit, and walked the Snavely Ford trail
                  with our dog. Not too cold.

                  Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
                  Professor of History
                  Hagerstown Community College


                  >>> philipkesaris@... 02/19/06 4:31 PM >>>
                • philipkesaris
                  Agreed Tom. I sat on the edge of that 12th Ohio Monument with my Carman map and the nice Park Service brochure ( The Final Attack Trail )and finally figured
                  Message 8 of 18 , Feb 19, 2006
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                    Agreed Tom. I sat on the edge of that 12th Ohio Monument with my
                    Carman map and the nice Park Service brochure ("The Final Attack
                    Trail")and finally figured out the whole end game of the battle.
                    Phenomenal view, as were the views at stops 2-4, especially this time
                    of year. The whole trail was deserted - dead quiet all afternoon. I
                    was wondering if that hackberry tree next to the stone wall at stop 6
                    (the extreme southern end of NPS property) was a "witness" tree? I
                    imagined it was anyway... The low ground between 6 and 7 gave me a
                    whole new appreciation for the plight of the 4th RI and 16th
                    Connecticut -- talk about a tight spot to be in... Very chilling
                    area... You can't appreciate it from any book - you gotta see the
                    ground, as I'm sure you know well. Let me know when more work needs
                    to be done on this trail (or anywhere else for that matter); I'd be
                    happy to help SHAF out. Take care, - Phil

                    PS: I especially enjoy it when Jeff gets going about Little Mac.
                    Very entertaining to read the back and forth over the years!



                    --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, "Thomas Clemens" <clemenst@...>
                    wrote:
                    >
                    > Yes, that new trail is pretty nice. They still need to do some work
                    > there. We cut a lot of trees last month, and hope to do some more
                    > before spring. I was there yesterday, which I think even colder.
                    > Luckily I had a complete goretex suit, and walked the Snavely Ford
                    trail
                    > with our dog. Not too cold.
                    >
                    > Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
                    > Professor of History
                    > Hagerstown Community College
                    >
                    >
                    > >>> philipkesaris@... 02/19/06 4:31 PM >>>
                    >
                  • Jeff Beckner (PWC Magazine)
                    I know. He visited the field long enough to be talked out of an attack by a guy whose opinions he usually had nothing but contempt for. ... From:
                    Message 9 of 18 , Feb 20, 2006
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                      I know. He visited the field long enough to be talked out of an attack
                      by a guy whose opinions he usually had nothing but contempt for.

                      -----Original Message-----
                      From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com]
                      On Behalf Of Thomas Clemens
                      Sent: Sunday, February 19, 2006 9:30 AM
                      To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: RE: [TalkAntietam] McClellan Post-War Visit(s) to Antietam?

                      Not surprising, given your predilictions, but also factually incorrect.
                      (Sorry, couldn't resist!)

                      Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
                      Professor of History
                      Hagerstown Community College


                      >>> jbeckner@... 02/18/06 8:57 PM >>>





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                    • Jeff Beckner (PWC Magazine)
                      A vain but unstable man, who sat a horse well and wanted to be president. Proceed. ... From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com]
                      Message 10 of 18 , Feb 20, 2006
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                        A vain but unstable man, who sat a horse well and wanted to be
                        president.

                        Proceed.

                        -----Original Message-----
                        From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com]
                        On Behalf Of Harry Smeltzer
                        Sent: Sunday, February 19, 2006 9:37 AM
                        To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: RE: [TalkAntietam] McClellan Post-War Visit(s) to Antietam?

                        Damn Tom. After all these years, you still take the bait!



                        Now you know Jeff's just going to try to use this to bring up something
                        totally unrelated - "Oh yeah? Well, he was rude to the President. And
                        he said nasty things about other people in private letters to his wife!
                        And he was short, too." Then we'll have to listen to the same old tired
                        Williamsisms all over again.



                        Harry



                        -----Original Message-----
                        From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com]
                        On Behalf Of Thomas Clemens
                        Sent: Sunday, February 19, 2006 10:30 AM
                        To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: RE: [TalkAntietam] McClellan Post-War Visit(s) to Antietam?



                        Not surprising, given your predilictions, but also factually incorrect.
                        (Sorry, couldn't resist!)

                        Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
                        Professor of History
                        Hagerstown Community College


                        >>> jbeckner@... 02/18/06 8:57 PM >>>









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                      • Jeff Beckner (PWC Magazine)
                        I knew I was in error, but I was hardly going to let that stand in the way of a cheap shot at Tardy George. Taney said in Dred Scott that a black man had no
                        Message 11 of 18 , Feb 20, 2006
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                          I knew I was in error, but I was hardly going to let that stand in the
                          way of a cheap shot at Tardy George.

                          Taney said in Dred Scott that a black man had no rights a white man was
                          bound to respect. I pretty much think Mac at Antietam is fair game in
                          more or less the same way.

                          -----Original Message-----
                          From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com]
                          On Behalf Of barringer63
                          Sent: Sunday, February 19, 2006 9:54 AM
                          To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: McClellan Post-War Visit(s) to Antietam?

                          Harry Smeltzer wrote:
                          >
                          > Damn Tom. After all these years, you still take the bait!

                          Both you and Tom are just like guppies when it comes to this. Tom
                          merely commented that Jeff was in error but you, Harry, have given Jeff
                          an outline for at least a week's worth of discussion.

                          Teej









                          Yahoo! Groups Links
                        • Harry Smeltzer
                          What does Sykes have to do with this? I have long seen the similarities between you and Tanney. The two of you are equally admirable. Harry ... From:
                          Message 12 of 18 , Feb 20, 2006
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                            What does Sykes have to do with this?



                            I have long seen the similarities between you and Tanney. The two of you
                            are equally admirable.



                            Harry



                            -----Original Message-----
                            From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com] On
                            Behalf Of Jeff Beckner (PWC Magazine)
                            Sent: Monday, February 20, 2006 9:16 AM
                            To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                            Subject: RE: [TalkAntietam] Re: McClellan Post-War Visit(s) to Antietam?



                            I knew I was in error, but I was hardly going to let that stand in the
                            way of a cheap shot at Tardy George.

                            Taney said in Dred Scott that a black man had no rights a white man was
                            bound to respect. I pretty much think Mac at Antietam is fair game in
                            more or less the same way.

                            -----Original Message-----
                            From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com]
                            On Behalf Of barringer63
                            Sent: Sunday, February 19, 2006 9:54 AM
                            To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                            Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: McClellan Post-War Visit(s) to Antietam?

                            Harry Smeltzer wrote:
                            >
                            > Damn Tom. After all these years, you still take the bait!

                            Both you and Tom are just like guppies when it comes to this. Tom
                            merely commented that Jeff was in error but you, Harry, have given Jeff
                            an outline for at least a week's worth of discussion.

                            Teej









                            Yahoo! Groups Links














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                          • Jeff Beckner (PWC Magazine)
                            You ll pay for that. ... From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Harry Smeltzer Sent: Monday, February 20, 2006
                            Message 13 of 18 , Feb 20, 2006
                            • 0 Attachment
                              You'll pay for that.

                              -----Original Message-----
                              From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com]
                              On Behalf Of Harry Smeltzer
                              Sent: Monday, February 20, 2006 8:31 AM
                              To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                              Subject: RE: [TalkAntietam] Re: McClellan Post-War Visit(s) to Antietam?

                              What does Sykes have to do with this?



                              I have long seen the similarities between you and Tanney. The two of
                              you are equally admirable.



                              Harry



                              -----Original Message-----
                              From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com]
                              On Behalf Of Jeff Beckner (PWC Magazine)
                              Sent: Monday, February 20, 2006 9:16 AM
                              To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                              Subject: RE: [TalkAntietam] Re: McClellan Post-War Visit(s) to Antietam?



                              I knew I was in error, but I was hardly going to let that stand in the
                              way of a cheap shot at Tardy George.

                              Taney said in Dred Scott that a black man had no rights a white man was
                              bound to respect. I pretty much think Mac at Antietam is fair game in
                              more or less the same way.

                              -----Original Message-----
                              From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com]
                              On Behalf Of barringer63
                              Sent: Sunday, February 19, 2006 9:54 AM
                              To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                              Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: McClellan Post-War Visit(s) to Antietam?

                              Harry Smeltzer wrote:
                              >
                              > Damn Tom. After all these years, you still take the bait!

                              Both you and Tom are just like guppies when it comes to this. Tom
                              merely commented that Jeff was in error but you, Harry, have given Jeff
                              an outline for at least a week's worth of discussion.

                              Teej









                              Yahoo! Groups Links














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                            • Harry Smeltzer
                              Are you saying you are not as admirable as Justice Tanney? Don t sell yourself short, Judge. Harry ... From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                              Message 14 of 18 , Feb 20, 2006
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                                Are you saying you are not as admirable as Justice Tanney?



                                Don't sell yourself short, Judge.



                                Harry



                                -----Original Message-----
                                From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com] On
                                Behalf Of Jeff Beckner (PWC Magazine)
                                Sent: Monday, February 20, 2006 10:15 AM
                                To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                                Subject: RE: [TalkAntietam] Re: McClellan Post-War Visit(s) to Antietam?



                                You'll pay for that.

                                -----Original Message-----
                                From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com]
                                On Behalf Of Harry Smeltzer
                                Sent: Monday, February 20, 2006 8:31 AM
                                To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                                Subject: RE: [TalkAntietam] Re: McClellan Post-War Visit(s) to Antietam?

                                What does Sykes have to do with this?



                                I have long seen the similarities between you and Tanney. The two of
                                you are equally admirable.



                                Harry



                                -----Original Message-----
                                From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com]
                                On Behalf Of Jeff Beckner (PWC Magazine)
                                Sent: Monday, February 20, 2006 9:16 AM
                                To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                                Subject: RE: [TalkAntietam] Re: McClellan Post-War Visit(s) to Antietam?



                                I knew I was in error, but I was hardly going to let that stand in the
                                way of a cheap shot at Tardy George.

                                Taney said in Dred Scott that a black man had no rights a white man was
                                bound to respect. I pretty much think Mac at Antietam is fair game in
                                more or less the same way.

                                -----Original Message-----
                                From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com]
                                On Behalf Of barringer63
                                Sent: Sunday, February 19, 2006 9:54 AM
                                To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                                Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: McClellan Post-War Visit(s) to Antietam?

                                Harry Smeltzer wrote:
                                >
                                > Damn Tom. After all these years, you still take the bait!

                                Both you and Tom are just like guppies when it comes to this. Tom
                                merely commented that Jeff was in error but you, Harry, have given Jeff
                                an outline for at least a week's worth of discussion.

                                Teej









                                Yahoo! Groups Links














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                              • Thomas Clemens
                                Weak Jeff. But please do keep flailing away. You re bound to hit something, sometime. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                Message 15 of 18 , Feb 20, 2006
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  Weak Jeff. But please do keep flailing away. You're bound to hit
                                  something, sometime.



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