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Re: [TalkAntietam] McClellan Post-War Visit(s) to Antietam?

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  • NJ Rebel
    Phil; I think Mac did only visit the field once after the War. IIRC, he was supposed to visit in 1885 but had unexpectedly died of a heart attack. I think a
    Message 1 of 18 , Feb 18, 2006
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      Phil;

      I think Mac did only visit the field once after the War. IIRC, he was
      supposed to visit in 1885 but had unexpectedly died of a heart attack.

      I think a question to Antietam NBP via their website,
      www.nps.gov/anti, might help. Also, there might be information there
      about the National Cemetery and whether Mac did actually visit it or
      not.

      Yr. Obt. Svt.
      G E "Gerry" Mayers

      "....the powers granted under the Constitution, being derived from the
      people of the United States, may be resumed by them, whenever the same
      shall be perverted to their injury or oppression;.."
      Act of State of Virginia adopting the Federal Constitution, 26 June
      1788

      ----- Original Message -----
      From: "philipkesaris" <philipkesaris@...>
      To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Saturday, February 18, 2006 6:54 PM
      Subject: [TalkAntietam] McClellan Post-War Visit(s) to Antietam?


      Thanks for all the comments on my prior post! Here's another obscure
      question. I'm trying to track down when/how many times McClellan
      visited Antietam after the war. Steve Stotelmyer states that he was
      present for the cemetery dedication on 12/17/67 (The Bivouacs of the
      Dead, p. 25), but I'm not sure that's correct. Mac was listed on the
      dedication program as an invited guest, but the Harper's Weekly
      coverage of the event makes no mention of him. John Schildt states
      that Mac spoke at the cemetery on Memorial Day, 1885, and quotes his
      speech wherein Mac said, "When I last stood upon this historic field,
      the smoke of battle still wreathed these hills and filled the
      valleys.." (Drums Along the Antietam, pp. 269-70). This suggests it
      was Mac's only post-war visit to Antietam. On the other hand, I
      recall
      reading somewhere that Mac walked the field with Henry Kyd Douglas at
      some point (perhaps Memorial Day 1885?). Can anyone shed light on
      this? Thanks! - Phil










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    • barringer63
      ... was ... attack. Kyd Douglas wrote, It is apropos to recall here the visit of General McClellan to Sharpsburg on the 30th of May, 1885, the first and only
      Message 2 of 18 , Feb 18, 2006
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        Gerry Mayers wrote:
        >
        > Phil;
        >
        > I think Mac did only visit the field once after the War. IIRC, he
        was
        > supposed to visit in 1885 but had unexpectedly died of a heart
        attack.

        Kyd Douglas wrote, "It is apropos to recall here the visit of
        General McClellan to Sharpsburg on the 30th of May, 1885, the first
        and only time he ever visited it after the battle of Antietam."
        "...He further stated that he firmly believed that if he had
        been defeated in the battle he would have been tried, cashiered, and
        perhaps shot. He repeated the statement that evening at a dinner
        given to him and his party by ex-Governor William T. Hamilton; and
        also the further curious statement that when the Antietam National
        Cemetery was dedicated on the 17th of September, 1867, he was not
        asked to take any part in the ceremonies and was not even invited to
        be present."
        McClellan died Oct. 29, 1885.

        Regards,
        Teej
      • Thomas Clemens
        Not surprising, given your predilictions, but also factually incorrect. (Sorry, couldn t resist!) Thomas G. Clemens D.A. Professor of History Hagerstown
        Message 3 of 18 , Feb 19, 2006
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          Not surprising, given your predilictions, but also factually incorrect.
          (Sorry, couldn't resist!)

          Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
          Professor of History
          Hagerstown Community College


          >>> jbeckner@... 02/18/06 8:57 PM >>>
        • Harry Smeltzer
          Damn Tom. After all these years, you still take the bait! Now you know Jeff s just going to try to use this to bring up something totally unrelated - Oh
          Message 4 of 18 , Feb 19, 2006
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            Damn Tom. After all these years, you still take the bait!



            Now you know Jeff's just going to try to use this to bring up something
            totally unrelated - "Oh yeah? Well, he was rude to the President. And he
            said nasty things about other people in private letters to his wife! And he
            was short, too." Then we'll have to listen to the same old tired
            Williamsisms all over again.



            Harry



            -----Original Message-----
            From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com] On
            Behalf Of Thomas Clemens
            Sent: Sunday, February 19, 2006 10:30 AM
            To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: RE: [TalkAntietam] McClellan Post-War Visit(s) to Antietam?



            Not surprising, given your predilictions, but also factually incorrect.
            (Sorry, couldn't resist!)

            Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
            Professor of History
            Hagerstown Community College


            >>> jbeckner@... 02/18/06 8:57 PM >>>









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          • barringer63
            ... Both you and Tom are just like guppies when it comes to this. Tom merely commented that Jeff was in error but you, Harry, have given Jeff an outline for at
            Message 5 of 18 , Feb 19, 2006
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              Harry Smeltzer wrote:
              >
              > Damn Tom. After all these years, you still take the bait!

              Both you and Tom are just like guppies when it comes to this. Tom
              merely commented that Jeff was in error but you, Harry, have given
              Jeff an outline for at least a week's worth of discussion.

              Teej
            • Harry Smeltzer
              Like he needs an outline. ... From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of barringer63 Sent: Sunday, February 19, 2006
              Message 6 of 18 , Feb 19, 2006
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                Like he needs an outline.



                -----Original Message-----
                From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com] On
                Behalf Of barringer63
                Sent: Sunday, February 19, 2006 10:54 AM
                To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: McClellan Post-War Visit(s) to Antietam?



                Harry Smeltzer wrote:
                >
                > Damn Tom. After all these years, you still take the bait!

                Both you and Tom are just like guppies when it comes to this. Tom
                merely commented that Jeff was in error but you, Harry, have given
                Jeff an outline for at least a week's worth of discussion.

                Teej













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              • philipkesaris
                Thanks! I suspect Mac was invited to the dedication of the cemetery, but didn t show up. I was at the field today (sunny but freezing cold) and walked the 1.7
                Message 7 of 18 , Feb 19, 2006
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                  Thanks! I suspect Mac was invited to the dedication of the cemetery,
                  but didn't show up. I was at the field today (sunny but freezing
                  cold) and walked the 1.7 mile "final attack" trail, which was really
                  tremendous. There was one secluded area of very low ground in Otto's
                  40-acre cornfield where A.P. Hill's men slaughtered the Connecticut
                  and Rhode Island boys. It's easy to picture what happened from the
                  terrain. I couldn't help but be reminded of the Crater scene at
                  Petersburg. I'm not a superstitious guy, but the place actually
                  spooked me. Anyway, the trail is a great addition to the park!
                  Regards, - Phil



                  --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, "barringer63" <teej@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Gerry Mayers wrote:
                  > >
                  > > Phil;
                  > >
                  > > I think Mac did only visit the field once after the War. IIRC, he
                  > was
                  > > supposed to visit in 1885 but had unexpectedly died of a heart
                  > attack.
                  >
                  > Kyd Douglas wrote, "It is apropos to recall here the visit of
                  > General McClellan to Sharpsburg on the 30th of May, 1885, the first
                  > and only time he ever visited it after the battle of Antietam."
                  > "...He further stated that he firmly believed that if he had
                  > been defeated in the battle he would have been tried, cashiered,
                  and
                  > perhaps shot. He repeated the statement that evening at a dinner
                  > given to him and his party by ex-Governor William T. Hamilton; and
                  > also the further curious statement that when the Antietam National
                  > Cemetery was dedicated on the 17th of September, 1867, he was not
                  > asked to take any part in the ceremonies and was not even invited
                  to
                  > be present."
                  > McClellan died Oct. 29, 1885.
                  >
                  > Regards,
                  > Teej
                  >
                • Thomas Clemens
                  Yes, that new trail is pretty nice. They still need to do some work there. We cut a lot of trees last month, and hope to do some more before spring. I was
                  Message 8 of 18 , Feb 19, 2006
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                    Yes, that new trail is pretty nice. They still need to do some work
                    there. We cut a lot of trees last month, and hope to do some more
                    before spring. I was there yesterday, which I think even colder.
                    Luckily I had a complete goretex suit, and walked the Snavely Ford trail
                    with our dog. Not too cold.

                    Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
                    Professor of History
                    Hagerstown Community College


                    >>> philipkesaris@... 02/19/06 4:31 PM >>>
                  • philipkesaris
                    Agreed Tom. I sat on the edge of that 12th Ohio Monument with my Carman map and the nice Park Service brochure ( The Final Attack Trail )and finally figured
                    Message 9 of 18 , Feb 19, 2006
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                      Agreed Tom. I sat on the edge of that 12th Ohio Monument with my
                      Carman map and the nice Park Service brochure ("The Final Attack
                      Trail")and finally figured out the whole end game of the battle.
                      Phenomenal view, as were the views at stops 2-4, especially this time
                      of year. The whole trail was deserted - dead quiet all afternoon. I
                      was wondering if that hackberry tree next to the stone wall at stop 6
                      (the extreme southern end of NPS property) was a "witness" tree? I
                      imagined it was anyway... The low ground between 6 and 7 gave me a
                      whole new appreciation for the plight of the 4th RI and 16th
                      Connecticut -- talk about a tight spot to be in... Very chilling
                      area... You can't appreciate it from any book - you gotta see the
                      ground, as I'm sure you know well. Let me know when more work needs
                      to be done on this trail (or anywhere else for that matter); I'd be
                      happy to help SHAF out. Take care, - Phil

                      PS: I especially enjoy it when Jeff gets going about Little Mac.
                      Very entertaining to read the back and forth over the years!



                      --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, "Thomas Clemens" <clemenst@...>
                      wrote:
                      >
                      > Yes, that new trail is pretty nice. They still need to do some work
                      > there. We cut a lot of trees last month, and hope to do some more
                      > before spring. I was there yesterday, which I think even colder.
                      > Luckily I had a complete goretex suit, and walked the Snavely Ford
                      trail
                      > with our dog. Not too cold.
                      >
                      > Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
                      > Professor of History
                      > Hagerstown Community College
                      >
                      >
                      > >>> philipkesaris@... 02/19/06 4:31 PM >>>
                      >
                    • Jeff Beckner (PWC Magazine)
                      I know. He visited the field long enough to be talked out of an attack by a guy whose opinions he usually had nothing but contempt for. ... From:
                      Message 10 of 18 , Feb 20, 2006
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                        I know. He visited the field long enough to be talked out of an attack
                        by a guy whose opinions he usually had nothing but contempt for.

                        -----Original Message-----
                        From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com]
                        On Behalf Of Thomas Clemens
                        Sent: Sunday, February 19, 2006 9:30 AM
                        To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: RE: [TalkAntietam] McClellan Post-War Visit(s) to Antietam?

                        Not surprising, given your predilictions, but also factually incorrect.
                        (Sorry, couldn't resist!)

                        Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
                        Professor of History
                        Hagerstown Community College


                        >>> jbeckner@... 02/18/06 8:57 PM >>>





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                      • Jeff Beckner (PWC Magazine)
                        A vain but unstable man, who sat a horse well and wanted to be president. Proceed. ... From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com]
                        Message 11 of 18 , Feb 20, 2006
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                          A vain but unstable man, who sat a horse well and wanted to be
                          president.

                          Proceed.

                          -----Original Message-----
                          From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com]
                          On Behalf Of Harry Smeltzer
                          Sent: Sunday, February 19, 2006 9:37 AM
                          To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: RE: [TalkAntietam] McClellan Post-War Visit(s) to Antietam?

                          Damn Tom. After all these years, you still take the bait!



                          Now you know Jeff's just going to try to use this to bring up something
                          totally unrelated - "Oh yeah? Well, he was rude to the President. And
                          he said nasty things about other people in private letters to his wife!
                          And he was short, too." Then we'll have to listen to the same old tired
                          Williamsisms all over again.



                          Harry



                          -----Original Message-----
                          From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com]
                          On Behalf Of Thomas Clemens
                          Sent: Sunday, February 19, 2006 10:30 AM
                          To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: RE: [TalkAntietam] McClellan Post-War Visit(s) to Antietam?



                          Not surprising, given your predilictions, but also factually incorrect.
                          (Sorry, couldn't resist!)

                          Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
                          Professor of History
                          Hagerstown Community College


                          >>> jbeckner@... 02/18/06 8:57 PM >>>









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                        • Jeff Beckner (PWC Magazine)
                          I knew I was in error, but I was hardly going to let that stand in the way of a cheap shot at Tardy George. Taney said in Dred Scott that a black man had no
                          Message 12 of 18 , Feb 20, 2006
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                            I knew I was in error, but I was hardly going to let that stand in the
                            way of a cheap shot at Tardy George.

                            Taney said in Dred Scott that a black man had no rights a white man was
                            bound to respect. I pretty much think Mac at Antietam is fair game in
                            more or less the same way.

                            -----Original Message-----
                            From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com]
                            On Behalf Of barringer63
                            Sent: Sunday, February 19, 2006 9:54 AM
                            To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                            Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: McClellan Post-War Visit(s) to Antietam?

                            Harry Smeltzer wrote:
                            >
                            > Damn Tom. After all these years, you still take the bait!

                            Both you and Tom are just like guppies when it comes to this. Tom
                            merely commented that Jeff was in error but you, Harry, have given Jeff
                            an outline for at least a week's worth of discussion.

                            Teej









                            Yahoo! Groups Links
                          • Harry Smeltzer
                            What does Sykes have to do with this? I have long seen the similarities between you and Tanney. The two of you are equally admirable. Harry ... From:
                            Message 13 of 18 , Feb 20, 2006
                            • 0 Attachment
                              What does Sykes have to do with this?



                              I have long seen the similarities between you and Tanney. The two of you
                              are equally admirable.



                              Harry



                              -----Original Message-----
                              From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com] On
                              Behalf Of Jeff Beckner (PWC Magazine)
                              Sent: Monday, February 20, 2006 9:16 AM
                              To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                              Subject: RE: [TalkAntietam] Re: McClellan Post-War Visit(s) to Antietam?



                              I knew I was in error, but I was hardly going to let that stand in the
                              way of a cheap shot at Tardy George.

                              Taney said in Dred Scott that a black man had no rights a white man was
                              bound to respect. I pretty much think Mac at Antietam is fair game in
                              more or less the same way.

                              -----Original Message-----
                              From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com]
                              On Behalf Of barringer63
                              Sent: Sunday, February 19, 2006 9:54 AM
                              To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                              Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: McClellan Post-War Visit(s) to Antietam?

                              Harry Smeltzer wrote:
                              >
                              > Damn Tom. After all these years, you still take the bait!

                              Both you and Tom are just like guppies when it comes to this. Tom
                              merely commented that Jeff was in error but you, Harry, have given Jeff
                              an outline for at least a week's worth of discussion.

                              Teej









                              Yahoo! Groups Links














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                            • Jeff Beckner (PWC Magazine)
                              You ll pay for that. ... From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Harry Smeltzer Sent: Monday, February 20, 2006
                              Message 14 of 18 , Feb 20, 2006
                              • 0 Attachment
                                You'll pay for that.

                                -----Original Message-----
                                From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com]
                                On Behalf Of Harry Smeltzer
                                Sent: Monday, February 20, 2006 8:31 AM
                                To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                                Subject: RE: [TalkAntietam] Re: McClellan Post-War Visit(s) to Antietam?

                                What does Sykes have to do with this?



                                I have long seen the similarities between you and Tanney. The two of
                                you are equally admirable.



                                Harry



                                -----Original Message-----
                                From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com]
                                On Behalf Of Jeff Beckner (PWC Magazine)
                                Sent: Monday, February 20, 2006 9:16 AM
                                To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                                Subject: RE: [TalkAntietam] Re: McClellan Post-War Visit(s) to Antietam?



                                I knew I was in error, but I was hardly going to let that stand in the
                                way of a cheap shot at Tardy George.

                                Taney said in Dred Scott that a black man had no rights a white man was
                                bound to respect. I pretty much think Mac at Antietam is fair game in
                                more or less the same way.

                                -----Original Message-----
                                From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com]
                                On Behalf Of barringer63
                                Sent: Sunday, February 19, 2006 9:54 AM
                                To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                                Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: McClellan Post-War Visit(s) to Antietam?

                                Harry Smeltzer wrote:
                                >
                                > Damn Tom. After all these years, you still take the bait!

                                Both you and Tom are just like guppies when it comes to this. Tom
                                merely commented that Jeff was in error but you, Harry, have given Jeff
                                an outline for at least a week's worth of discussion.

                                Teej









                                Yahoo! Groups Links














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                              • Harry Smeltzer
                                Are you saying you are not as admirable as Justice Tanney? Don t sell yourself short, Judge. Harry ... From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                                Message 15 of 18 , Feb 20, 2006
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                                  Are you saying you are not as admirable as Justice Tanney?



                                  Don't sell yourself short, Judge.



                                  Harry



                                  -----Original Message-----
                                  From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com] On
                                  Behalf Of Jeff Beckner (PWC Magazine)
                                  Sent: Monday, February 20, 2006 10:15 AM
                                  To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                                  Subject: RE: [TalkAntietam] Re: McClellan Post-War Visit(s) to Antietam?



                                  You'll pay for that.

                                  -----Original Message-----
                                  From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com]
                                  On Behalf Of Harry Smeltzer
                                  Sent: Monday, February 20, 2006 8:31 AM
                                  To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                                  Subject: RE: [TalkAntietam] Re: McClellan Post-War Visit(s) to Antietam?

                                  What does Sykes have to do with this?



                                  I have long seen the similarities between you and Tanney. The two of
                                  you are equally admirable.



                                  Harry



                                  -----Original Message-----
                                  From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com]
                                  On Behalf Of Jeff Beckner (PWC Magazine)
                                  Sent: Monday, February 20, 2006 9:16 AM
                                  To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                                  Subject: RE: [TalkAntietam] Re: McClellan Post-War Visit(s) to Antietam?



                                  I knew I was in error, but I was hardly going to let that stand in the
                                  way of a cheap shot at Tardy George.

                                  Taney said in Dred Scott that a black man had no rights a white man was
                                  bound to respect. I pretty much think Mac at Antietam is fair game in
                                  more or less the same way.

                                  -----Original Message-----
                                  From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com]
                                  On Behalf Of barringer63
                                  Sent: Sunday, February 19, 2006 9:54 AM
                                  To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                                  Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: McClellan Post-War Visit(s) to Antietam?

                                  Harry Smeltzer wrote:
                                  >
                                  > Damn Tom. After all these years, you still take the bait!

                                  Both you and Tom are just like guppies when it comes to this. Tom
                                  merely commented that Jeff was in error but you, Harry, have given Jeff
                                  an outline for at least a week's worth of discussion.

                                  Teej









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                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                • Thomas Clemens
                                  Weak Jeff. But please do keep flailing away. You re bound to hit something, sometime. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  Message 16 of 18 , Feb 20, 2006
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    Weak Jeff. But please do keep flailing away. You're bound to hit
                                    something, sometime.



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