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RE: [TalkAntietam] McClellan Post-War Visit(s) to Antietam?

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  • Jeff Beckner (PWC Magazine)
    I guess it s good he set foot on the battlefield once in his life.... (Sorry, couldn t resist.) ... From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
    Message 1 of 18 , Feb 18, 2006
      I guess it's good he set foot on the battlefield once in his life....

      (Sorry, couldn't resist.)

      -----Original Message-----
      From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com]
      On Behalf Of philipkesaris
      Sent: Saturday, February 18, 2006 5:54 PM
      To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: [TalkAntietam] McClellan Post-War Visit(s) to Antietam?

      Thanks for all the comments on my prior post! Here's another obscure
      question. I'm trying to track down when/how many times McClellan
      visited Antietam after the war. Steve Stotelmyer states that he was
      present for the cemetery dedication on 12/17/67 (The Bivouacs of the
      Dead, p. 25), but I'm not sure that's correct. Mac was listed on the
      dedication program as an invited guest, but the Harper's Weekly coverage
      of the event makes no mention of him. John Schildt states that Mac
      spoke at the cemetery on Memorial Day, 1885, and quotes his speech
      wherein Mac said, "When I last stood upon this historic field, the smoke
      of battle still wreathed these hills and filled the valleys...." (Drums
      Along the Antietam, pp. 269-70). This suggests it was Mac's only
      post-war visit to Antietam. On the other hand, I recall reading
      somewhere that Mac walked the field with Henry Kyd Douglas at some point
      (perhaps Memorial Day 1885?). Can anyone shed light on this? Thanks! -
      Phil







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    • NJ Rebel
      Phil; I think Mac did only visit the field once after the War. IIRC, he was supposed to visit in 1885 but had unexpectedly died of a heart attack. I think a
      Message 2 of 18 , Feb 18, 2006
        Phil;

        I think Mac did only visit the field once after the War. IIRC, he was
        supposed to visit in 1885 but had unexpectedly died of a heart attack.

        I think a question to Antietam NBP via their website,
        www.nps.gov/anti, might help. Also, there might be information there
        about the National Cemetery and whether Mac did actually visit it or
        not.

        Yr. Obt. Svt.
        G E "Gerry" Mayers

        "....the powers granted under the Constitution, being derived from the
        people of the United States, may be resumed by them, whenever the same
        shall be perverted to their injury or oppression;.."
        Act of State of Virginia adopting the Federal Constitution, 26 June
        1788

        ----- Original Message -----
        From: "philipkesaris" <philipkesaris@...>
        To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Saturday, February 18, 2006 6:54 PM
        Subject: [TalkAntietam] McClellan Post-War Visit(s) to Antietam?


        Thanks for all the comments on my prior post! Here's another obscure
        question. I'm trying to track down when/how many times McClellan
        visited Antietam after the war. Steve Stotelmyer states that he was
        present for the cemetery dedication on 12/17/67 (The Bivouacs of the
        Dead, p. 25), but I'm not sure that's correct. Mac was listed on the
        dedication program as an invited guest, but the Harper's Weekly
        coverage of the event makes no mention of him. John Schildt states
        that Mac spoke at the cemetery on Memorial Day, 1885, and quotes his
        speech wherein Mac said, "When I last stood upon this historic field,
        the smoke of battle still wreathed these hills and filled the
        valleys.." (Drums Along the Antietam, pp. 269-70). This suggests it
        was Mac's only post-war visit to Antietam. On the other hand, I
        recall
        reading somewhere that Mac walked the field with Henry Kyd Douglas at
        some point (perhaps Memorial Day 1885?). Can anyone shed light on
        this? Thanks! - Phil










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      • barringer63
        ... was ... attack. Kyd Douglas wrote, It is apropos to recall here the visit of General McClellan to Sharpsburg on the 30th of May, 1885, the first and only
        Message 3 of 18 , Feb 18, 2006
          Gerry Mayers wrote:
          >
          > Phil;
          >
          > I think Mac did only visit the field once after the War. IIRC, he
          was
          > supposed to visit in 1885 but had unexpectedly died of a heart
          attack.

          Kyd Douglas wrote, "It is apropos to recall here the visit of
          General McClellan to Sharpsburg on the 30th of May, 1885, the first
          and only time he ever visited it after the battle of Antietam."
          "...He further stated that he firmly believed that if he had
          been defeated in the battle he would have been tried, cashiered, and
          perhaps shot. He repeated the statement that evening at a dinner
          given to him and his party by ex-Governor William T. Hamilton; and
          also the further curious statement that when the Antietam National
          Cemetery was dedicated on the 17th of September, 1867, he was not
          asked to take any part in the ceremonies and was not even invited to
          be present."
          McClellan died Oct. 29, 1885.

          Regards,
          Teej
        • Thomas Clemens
          Not surprising, given your predilictions, but also factually incorrect. (Sorry, couldn t resist!) Thomas G. Clemens D.A. Professor of History Hagerstown
          Message 4 of 18 , Feb 19, 2006
            Not surprising, given your predilictions, but also factually incorrect.
            (Sorry, couldn't resist!)

            Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
            Professor of History
            Hagerstown Community College


            >>> jbeckner@... 02/18/06 8:57 PM >>>
          • Harry Smeltzer
            Damn Tom. After all these years, you still take the bait! Now you know Jeff s just going to try to use this to bring up something totally unrelated - Oh
            Message 5 of 18 , Feb 19, 2006
              Damn Tom. After all these years, you still take the bait!



              Now you know Jeff's just going to try to use this to bring up something
              totally unrelated - "Oh yeah? Well, he was rude to the President. And he
              said nasty things about other people in private letters to his wife! And he
              was short, too." Then we'll have to listen to the same old tired
              Williamsisms all over again.



              Harry



              -----Original Message-----
              From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com] On
              Behalf Of Thomas Clemens
              Sent: Sunday, February 19, 2006 10:30 AM
              To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: RE: [TalkAntietam] McClellan Post-War Visit(s) to Antietam?



              Not surprising, given your predilictions, but also factually incorrect.
              (Sorry, couldn't resist!)

              Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
              Professor of History
              Hagerstown Community College


              >>> jbeckner@... 02/18/06 8:57 PM >>>









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            • barringer63
              ... Both you and Tom are just like guppies when it comes to this. Tom merely commented that Jeff was in error but you, Harry, have given Jeff an outline for at
              Message 6 of 18 , Feb 19, 2006
                Harry Smeltzer wrote:
                >
                > Damn Tom. After all these years, you still take the bait!

                Both you and Tom are just like guppies when it comes to this. Tom
                merely commented that Jeff was in error but you, Harry, have given
                Jeff an outline for at least a week's worth of discussion.

                Teej
              • Harry Smeltzer
                Like he needs an outline. ... From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of barringer63 Sent: Sunday, February 19, 2006
                Message 7 of 18 , Feb 19, 2006
                  Like he needs an outline.



                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com] On
                  Behalf Of barringer63
                  Sent: Sunday, February 19, 2006 10:54 AM
                  To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: McClellan Post-War Visit(s) to Antietam?



                  Harry Smeltzer wrote:
                  >
                  > Damn Tom. After all these years, you still take the bait!

                  Both you and Tom are just like guppies when it comes to this. Tom
                  merely commented that Jeff was in error but you, Harry, have given
                  Jeff an outline for at least a week's worth of discussion.

                  Teej













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                • philipkesaris
                  Thanks! I suspect Mac was invited to the dedication of the cemetery, but didn t show up. I was at the field today (sunny but freezing cold) and walked the 1.7
                  Message 8 of 18 , Feb 19, 2006
                    Thanks! I suspect Mac was invited to the dedication of the cemetery,
                    but didn't show up. I was at the field today (sunny but freezing
                    cold) and walked the 1.7 mile "final attack" trail, which was really
                    tremendous. There was one secluded area of very low ground in Otto's
                    40-acre cornfield where A.P. Hill's men slaughtered the Connecticut
                    and Rhode Island boys. It's easy to picture what happened from the
                    terrain. I couldn't help but be reminded of the Crater scene at
                    Petersburg. I'm not a superstitious guy, but the place actually
                    spooked me. Anyway, the trail is a great addition to the park!
                    Regards, - Phil



                    --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, "barringer63" <teej@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Gerry Mayers wrote:
                    > >
                    > > Phil;
                    > >
                    > > I think Mac did only visit the field once after the War. IIRC, he
                    > was
                    > > supposed to visit in 1885 but had unexpectedly died of a heart
                    > attack.
                    >
                    > Kyd Douglas wrote, "It is apropos to recall here the visit of
                    > General McClellan to Sharpsburg on the 30th of May, 1885, the first
                    > and only time he ever visited it after the battle of Antietam."
                    > "...He further stated that he firmly believed that if he had
                    > been defeated in the battle he would have been tried, cashiered,
                    and
                    > perhaps shot. He repeated the statement that evening at a dinner
                    > given to him and his party by ex-Governor William T. Hamilton; and
                    > also the further curious statement that when the Antietam National
                    > Cemetery was dedicated on the 17th of September, 1867, he was not
                    > asked to take any part in the ceremonies and was not even invited
                    to
                    > be present."
                    > McClellan died Oct. 29, 1885.
                    >
                    > Regards,
                    > Teej
                    >
                  • Thomas Clemens
                    Yes, that new trail is pretty nice. They still need to do some work there. We cut a lot of trees last month, and hope to do some more before spring. I was
                    Message 9 of 18 , Feb 19, 2006
                      Yes, that new trail is pretty nice. They still need to do some work
                      there. We cut a lot of trees last month, and hope to do some more
                      before spring. I was there yesterday, which I think even colder.
                      Luckily I had a complete goretex suit, and walked the Snavely Ford trail
                      with our dog. Not too cold.

                      Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
                      Professor of History
                      Hagerstown Community College


                      >>> philipkesaris@... 02/19/06 4:31 PM >>>
                    • philipkesaris
                      Agreed Tom. I sat on the edge of that 12th Ohio Monument with my Carman map and the nice Park Service brochure ( The Final Attack Trail )and finally figured
                      Message 10 of 18 , Feb 19, 2006
                        Agreed Tom. I sat on the edge of that 12th Ohio Monument with my
                        Carman map and the nice Park Service brochure ("The Final Attack
                        Trail")and finally figured out the whole end game of the battle.
                        Phenomenal view, as were the views at stops 2-4, especially this time
                        of year. The whole trail was deserted - dead quiet all afternoon. I
                        was wondering if that hackberry tree next to the stone wall at stop 6
                        (the extreme southern end of NPS property) was a "witness" tree? I
                        imagined it was anyway... The low ground between 6 and 7 gave me a
                        whole new appreciation for the plight of the 4th RI and 16th
                        Connecticut -- talk about a tight spot to be in... Very chilling
                        area... You can't appreciate it from any book - you gotta see the
                        ground, as I'm sure you know well. Let me know when more work needs
                        to be done on this trail (or anywhere else for that matter); I'd be
                        happy to help SHAF out. Take care, - Phil

                        PS: I especially enjoy it when Jeff gets going about Little Mac.
                        Very entertaining to read the back and forth over the years!



                        --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, "Thomas Clemens" <clemenst@...>
                        wrote:
                        >
                        > Yes, that new trail is pretty nice. They still need to do some work
                        > there. We cut a lot of trees last month, and hope to do some more
                        > before spring. I was there yesterday, which I think even colder.
                        > Luckily I had a complete goretex suit, and walked the Snavely Ford
                        trail
                        > with our dog. Not too cold.
                        >
                        > Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
                        > Professor of History
                        > Hagerstown Community College
                        >
                        >
                        > >>> philipkesaris@... 02/19/06 4:31 PM >>>
                        >
                      • Jeff Beckner (PWC Magazine)
                        I know. He visited the field long enough to be talked out of an attack by a guy whose opinions he usually had nothing but contempt for. ... From:
                        Message 11 of 18 , Feb 20, 2006
                          I know. He visited the field long enough to be talked out of an attack
                          by a guy whose opinions he usually had nothing but contempt for.

                          -----Original Message-----
                          From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com]
                          On Behalf Of Thomas Clemens
                          Sent: Sunday, February 19, 2006 9:30 AM
                          To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: RE: [TalkAntietam] McClellan Post-War Visit(s) to Antietam?

                          Not surprising, given your predilictions, but also factually incorrect.
                          (Sorry, couldn't resist!)

                          Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
                          Professor of History
                          Hagerstown Community College


                          >>> jbeckner@... 02/18/06 8:57 PM >>>





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                        • Jeff Beckner (PWC Magazine)
                          A vain but unstable man, who sat a horse well and wanted to be president. Proceed. ... From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com]
                          Message 12 of 18 , Feb 20, 2006
                            A vain but unstable man, who sat a horse well and wanted to be
                            president.

                            Proceed.

                            -----Original Message-----
                            From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com]
                            On Behalf Of Harry Smeltzer
                            Sent: Sunday, February 19, 2006 9:37 AM
                            To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                            Subject: RE: [TalkAntietam] McClellan Post-War Visit(s) to Antietam?

                            Damn Tom. After all these years, you still take the bait!



                            Now you know Jeff's just going to try to use this to bring up something
                            totally unrelated - "Oh yeah? Well, he was rude to the President. And
                            he said nasty things about other people in private letters to his wife!
                            And he was short, too." Then we'll have to listen to the same old tired
                            Williamsisms all over again.



                            Harry



                            -----Original Message-----
                            From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com]
                            On Behalf Of Thomas Clemens
                            Sent: Sunday, February 19, 2006 10:30 AM
                            To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                            Subject: RE: [TalkAntietam] McClellan Post-War Visit(s) to Antietam?



                            Not surprising, given your predilictions, but also factually incorrect.
                            (Sorry, couldn't resist!)

                            Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
                            Professor of History
                            Hagerstown Community College


                            >>> jbeckner@... 02/18/06 8:57 PM >>>









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                          • Jeff Beckner (PWC Magazine)
                            I knew I was in error, but I was hardly going to let that stand in the way of a cheap shot at Tardy George. Taney said in Dred Scott that a black man had no
                            Message 13 of 18 , Feb 20, 2006
                              I knew I was in error, but I was hardly going to let that stand in the
                              way of a cheap shot at Tardy George.

                              Taney said in Dred Scott that a black man had no rights a white man was
                              bound to respect. I pretty much think Mac at Antietam is fair game in
                              more or less the same way.

                              -----Original Message-----
                              From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com]
                              On Behalf Of barringer63
                              Sent: Sunday, February 19, 2006 9:54 AM
                              To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                              Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: McClellan Post-War Visit(s) to Antietam?

                              Harry Smeltzer wrote:
                              >
                              > Damn Tom. After all these years, you still take the bait!

                              Both you and Tom are just like guppies when it comes to this. Tom
                              merely commented that Jeff was in error but you, Harry, have given Jeff
                              an outline for at least a week's worth of discussion.

                              Teej









                              Yahoo! Groups Links
                            • Harry Smeltzer
                              What does Sykes have to do with this? I have long seen the similarities between you and Tanney. The two of you are equally admirable. Harry ... From:
                              Message 14 of 18 , Feb 20, 2006
                                What does Sykes have to do with this?



                                I have long seen the similarities between you and Tanney. The two of you
                                are equally admirable.



                                Harry



                                -----Original Message-----
                                From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com] On
                                Behalf Of Jeff Beckner (PWC Magazine)
                                Sent: Monday, February 20, 2006 9:16 AM
                                To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                                Subject: RE: [TalkAntietam] Re: McClellan Post-War Visit(s) to Antietam?



                                I knew I was in error, but I was hardly going to let that stand in the
                                way of a cheap shot at Tardy George.

                                Taney said in Dred Scott that a black man had no rights a white man was
                                bound to respect. I pretty much think Mac at Antietam is fair game in
                                more or less the same way.

                                -----Original Message-----
                                From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com]
                                On Behalf Of barringer63
                                Sent: Sunday, February 19, 2006 9:54 AM
                                To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                                Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: McClellan Post-War Visit(s) to Antietam?

                                Harry Smeltzer wrote:
                                >
                                > Damn Tom. After all these years, you still take the bait!

                                Both you and Tom are just like guppies when it comes to this. Tom
                                merely commented that Jeff was in error but you, Harry, have given Jeff
                                an outline for at least a week's worth of discussion.

                                Teej









                                Yahoo! Groups Links














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                              • Jeff Beckner (PWC Magazine)
                                You ll pay for that. ... From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Harry Smeltzer Sent: Monday, February 20, 2006
                                Message 15 of 18 , Feb 20, 2006
                                  You'll pay for that.

                                  -----Original Message-----
                                  From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com]
                                  On Behalf Of Harry Smeltzer
                                  Sent: Monday, February 20, 2006 8:31 AM
                                  To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                                  Subject: RE: [TalkAntietam] Re: McClellan Post-War Visit(s) to Antietam?

                                  What does Sykes have to do with this?



                                  I have long seen the similarities between you and Tanney. The two of
                                  you are equally admirable.



                                  Harry



                                  -----Original Message-----
                                  From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com]
                                  On Behalf Of Jeff Beckner (PWC Magazine)
                                  Sent: Monday, February 20, 2006 9:16 AM
                                  To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                                  Subject: RE: [TalkAntietam] Re: McClellan Post-War Visit(s) to Antietam?



                                  I knew I was in error, but I was hardly going to let that stand in the
                                  way of a cheap shot at Tardy George.

                                  Taney said in Dred Scott that a black man had no rights a white man was
                                  bound to respect. I pretty much think Mac at Antietam is fair game in
                                  more or less the same way.

                                  -----Original Message-----
                                  From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com]
                                  On Behalf Of barringer63
                                  Sent: Sunday, February 19, 2006 9:54 AM
                                  To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                                  Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: McClellan Post-War Visit(s) to Antietam?

                                  Harry Smeltzer wrote:
                                  >
                                  > Damn Tom. After all these years, you still take the bait!

                                  Both you and Tom are just like guppies when it comes to this. Tom
                                  merely commented that Jeff was in error but you, Harry, have given Jeff
                                  an outline for at least a week's worth of discussion.

                                  Teej









                                  Yahoo! Groups Links














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                                • Harry Smeltzer
                                  Are you saying you are not as admirable as Justice Tanney? Don t sell yourself short, Judge. Harry ... From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                                  Message 16 of 18 , Feb 20, 2006
                                    Are you saying you are not as admirable as Justice Tanney?



                                    Don't sell yourself short, Judge.



                                    Harry



                                    -----Original Message-----
                                    From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com] On
                                    Behalf Of Jeff Beckner (PWC Magazine)
                                    Sent: Monday, February 20, 2006 10:15 AM
                                    To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                                    Subject: RE: [TalkAntietam] Re: McClellan Post-War Visit(s) to Antietam?



                                    You'll pay for that.

                                    -----Original Message-----
                                    From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com]
                                    On Behalf Of Harry Smeltzer
                                    Sent: Monday, February 20, 2006 8:31 AM
                                    To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                                    Subject: RE: [TalkAntietam] Re: McClellan Post-War Visit(s) to Antietam?

                                    What does Sykes have to do with this?



                                    I have long seen the similarities between you and Tanney. The two of
                                    you are equally admirable.



                                    Harry



                                    -----Original Message-----
                                    From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com]
                                    On Behalf Of Jeff Beckner (PWC Magazine)
                                    Sent: Monday, February 20, 2006 9:16 AM
                                    To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                                    Subject: RE: [TalkAntietam] Re: McClellan Post-War Visit(s) to Antietam?



                                    I knew I was in error, but I was hardly going to let that stand in the
                                    way of a cheap shot at Tardy George.

                                    Taney said in Dred Scott that a black man had no rights a white man was
                                    bound to respect. I pretty much think Mac at Antietam is fair game in
                                    more or less the same way.

                                    -----Original Message-----
                                    From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com]
                                    On Behalf Of barringer63
                                    Sent: Sunday, February 19, 2006 9:54 AM
                                    To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                                    Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: McClellan Post-War Visit(s) to Antietam?

                                    Harry Smeltzer wrote:
                                    >
                                    > Damn Tom. After all these years, you still take the bait!

                                    Both you and Tom are just like guppies when it comes to this. Tom
                                    merely commented that Jeff was in error but you, Harry, have given Jeff
                                    an outline for at least a week's worth of discussion.

                                    Teej









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                                  • Thomas Clemens
                                    Weak Jeff. But please do keep flailing away. You re bound to hit something, sometime. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    Message 17 of 18 , Feb 20, 2006
                                      Weak Jeff. But please do keep flailing away. You're bound to hit
                                      something, sometime.



                                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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