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McClellan Post-War Visit(s) to Antietam?

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  • philipkesaris
    Thanks for all the comments on my prior post! Here s another obscure question. I m trying to track down when/how many times McClellan visited Antietam after
    Message 1 of 18 , Feb 18, 2006
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      Thanks for all the comments on my prior post! Here's another obscure
      question. I'm trying to track down when/how many times McClellan
      visited Antietam after the war. Steve Stotelmyer states that he was
      present for the cemetery dedication on 12/17/67 (The Bivouacs of the
      Dead, p. 25), but I'm not sure that's correct. Mac was listed on the
      dedication program as an invited guest, but the Harper's Weekly
      coverage of the event makes no mention of him. John Schildt states
      that Mac spoke at the cemetery on Memorial Day, 1885, and quotes his
      speech wherein Mac said, "When I last stood upon this historic field,
      the smoke of battle still wreathed these hills and filled the
      valleysÂ…." (Drums Along the Antietam, pp. 269-70). This suggests it
      was Mac's only post-war visit to Antietam. On the other hand, I recall
      reading somewhere that Mac walked the field with Henry Kyd Douglas at
      some point (perhaps Memorial Day 1885?). Can anyone shed light on
      this? Thanks! - Phil
    • Jeff Beckner (PWC Magazine)
      I guess it s good he set foot on the battlefield once in his life.... (Sorry, couldn t resist.) ... From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
      Message 2 of 18 , Feb 18, 2006
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        I guess it's good he set foot on the battlefield once in his life....

        (Sorry, couldn't resist.)

        -----Original Message-----
        From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com]
        On Behalf Of philipkesaris
        Sent: Saturday, February 18, 2006 5:54 PM
        To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [TalkAntietam] McClellan Post-War Visit(s) to Antietam?

        Thanks for all the comments on my prior post! Here's another obscure
        question. I'm trying to track down when/how many times McClellan
        visited Antietam after the war. Steve Stotelmyer states that he was
        present for the cemetery dedication on 12/17/67 (The Bivouacs of the
        Dead, p. 25), but I'm not sure that's correct. Mac was listed on the
        dedication program as an invited guest, but the Harper's Weekly coverage
        of the event makes no mention of him. John Schildt states that Mac
        spoke at the cemetery on Memorial Day, 1885, and quotes his speech
        wherein Mac said, "When I last stood upon this historic field, the smoke
        of battle still wreathed these hills and filled the valleys...." (Drums
        Along the Antietam, pp. 269-70). This suggests it was Mac's only
        post-war visit to Antietam. On the other hand, I recall reading
        somewhere that Mac walked the field with Henry Kyd Douglas at some point
        (perhaps Memorial Day 1885?). Can anyone shed light on this? Thanks! -
        Phil







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      • NJ Rebel
        Phil; I think Mac did only visit the field once after the War. IIRC, he was supposed to visit in 1885 but had unexpectedly died of a heart attack. I think a
        Message 3 of 18 , Feb 18, 2006
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          Phil;

          I think Mac did only visit the field once after the War. IIRC, he was
          supposed to visit in 1885 but had unexpectedly died of a heart attack.

          I think a question to Antietam NBP via their website,
          www.nps.gov/anti, might help. Also, there might be information there
          about the National Cemetery and whether Mac did actually visit it or
          not.

          Yr. Obt. Svt.
          G E "Gerry" Mayers

          "....the powers granted under the Constitution, being derived from the
          people of the United States, may be resumed by them, whenever the same
          shall be perverted to their injury or oppression;.."
          Act of State of Virginia adopting the Federal Constitution, 26 June
          1788

          ----- Original Message -----
          From: "philipkesaris" <philipkesaris@...>
          To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Saturday, February 18, 2006 6:54 PM
          Subject: [TalkAntietam] McClellan Post-War Visit(s) to Antietam?


          Thanks for all the comments on my prior post! Here's another obscure
          question. I'm trying to track down when/how many times McClellan
          visited Antietam after the war. Steve Stotelmyer states that he was
          present for the cemetery dedication on 12/17/67 (The Bivouacs of the
          Dead, p. 25), but I'm not sure that's correct. Mac was listed on the
          dedication program as an invited guest, but the Harper's Weekly
          coverage of the event makes no mention of him. John Schildt states
          that Mac spoke at the cemetery on Memorial Day, 1885, and quotes his
          speech wherein Mac said, "When I last stood upon this historic field,
          the smoke of battle still wreathed these hills and filled the
          valleys.." (Drums Along the Antietam, pp. 269-70). This suggests it
          was Mac's only post-war visit to Antietam. On the other hand, I
          recall
          reading somewhere that Mac walked the field with Henry Kyd Douglas at
          some point (perhaps Memorial Day 1885?). Can anyone shed light on
          this? Thanks! - Phil










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        • barringer63
          ... was ... attack. Kyd Douglas wrote, It is apropos to recall here the visit of General McClellan to Sharpsburg on the 30th of May, 1885, the first and only
          Message 4 of 18 , Feb 18, 2006
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            Gerry Mayers wrote:
            >
            > Phil;
            >
            > I think Mac did only visit the field once after the War. IIRC, he
            was
            > supposed to visit in 1885 but had unexpectedly died of a heart
            attack.

            Kyd Douglas wrote, "It is apropos to recall here the visit of
            General McClellan to Sharpsburg on the 30th of May, 1885, the first
            and only time he ever visited it after the battle of Antietam."
            "...He further stated that he firmly believed that if he had
            been defeated in the battle he would have been tried, cashiered, and
            perhaps shot. He repeated the statement that evening at a dinner
            given to him and his party by ex-Governor William T. Hamilton; and
            also the further curious statement that when the Antietam National
            Cemetery was dedicated on the 17th of September, 1867, he was not
            asked to take any part in the ceremonies and was not even invited to
            be present."
            McClellan died Oct. 29, 1885.

            Regards,
            Teej
          • Thomas Clemens
            Not surprising, given your predilictions, but also factually incorrect. (Sorry, couldn t resist!) Thomas G. Clemens D.A. Professor of History Hagerstown
            Message 5 of 18 , Feb 19, 2006
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              Not surprising, given your predilictions, but also factually incorrect.
              (Sorry, couldn't resist!)

              Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
              Professor of History
              Hagerstown Community College


              >>> jbeckner@... 02/18/06 8:57 PM >>>
            • Harry Smeltzer
              Damn Tom. After all these years, you still take the bait! Now you know Jeff s just going to try to use this to bring up something totally unrelated - Oh
              Message 6 of 18 , Feb 19, 2006
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                Damn Tom. After all these years, you still take the bait!



                Now you know Jeff's just going to try to use this to bring up something
                totally unrelated - "Oh yeah? Well, he was rude to the President. And he
                said nasty things about other people in private letters to his wife! And he
                was short, too." Then we'll have to listen to the same old tired
                Williamsisms all over again.



                Harry



                -----Original Message-----
                From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com] On
                Behalf Of Thomas Clemens
                Sent: Sunday, February 19, 2006 10:30 AM
                To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: RE: [TalkAntietam] McClellan Post-War Visit(s) to Antietam?



                Not surprising, given your predilictions, but also factually incorrect.
                (Sorry, couldn't resist!)

                Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
                Professor of History
                Hagerstown Community College


                >>> jbeckner@... 02/18/06 8:57 PM >>>









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              • barringer63
                ... Both you and Tom are just like guppies when it comes to this. Tom merely commented that Jeff was in error but you, Harry, have given Jeff an outline for at
                Message 7 of 18 , Feb 19, 2006
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                  Harry Smeltzer wrote:
                  >
                  > Damn Tom. After all these years, you still take the bait!

                  Both you and Tom are just like guppies when it comes to this. Tom
                  merely commented that Jeff was in error but you, Harry, have given
                  Jeff an outline for at least a week's worth of discussion.

                  Teej
                • Harry Smeltzer
                  Like he needs an outline. ... From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of barringer63 Sent: Sunday, February 19, 2006
                  Message 8 of 18 , Feb 19, 2006
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                    Like he needs an outline.



                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com] On
                    Behalf Of barringer63
                    Sent: Sunday, February 19, 2006 10:54 AM
                    To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: McClellan Post-War Visit(s) to Antietam?



                    Harry Smeltzer wrote:
                    >
                    > Damn Tom. After all these years, you still take the bait!

                    Both you and Tom are just like guppies when it comes to this. Tom
                    merely commented that Jeff was in error but you, Harry, have given
                    Jeff an outline for at least a week's worth of discussion.

                    Teej













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                  • philipkesaris
                    Thanks! I suspect Mac was invited to the dedication of the cemetery, but didn t show up. I was at the field today (sunny but freezing cold) and walked the 1.7
                    Message 9 of 18 , Feb 19, 2006
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                      Thanks! I suspect Mac was invited to the dedication of the cemetery,
                      but didn't show up. I was at the field today (sunny but freezing
                      cold) and walked the 1.7 mile "final attack" trail, which was really
                      tremendous. There was one secluded area of very low ground in Otto's
                      40-acre cornfield where A.P. Hill's men slaughtered the Connecticut
                      and Rhode Island boys. It's easy to picture what happened from the
                      terrain. I couldn't help but be reminded of the Crater scene at
                      Petersburg. I'm not a superstitious guy, but the place actually
                      spooked me. Anyway, the trail is a great addition to the park!
                      Regards, - Phil



                      --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, "barringer63" <teej@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Gerry Mayers wrote:
                      > >
                      > > Phil;
                      > >
                      > > I think Mac did only visit the field once after the War. IIRC, he
                      > was
                      > > supposed to visit in 1885 but had unexpectedly died of a heart
                      > attack.
                      >
                      > Kyd Douglas wrote, "It is apropos to recall here the visit of
                      > General McClellan to Sharpsburg on the 30th of May, 1885, the first
                      > and only time he ever visited it after the battle of Antietam."
                      > "...He further stated that he firmly believed that if he had
                      > been defeated in the battle he would have been tried, cashiered,
                      and
                      > perhaps shot. He repeated the statement that evening at a dinner
                      > given to him and his party by ex-Governor William T. Hamilton; and
                      > also the further curious statement that when the Antietam National
                      > Cemetery was dedicated on the 17th of September, 1867, he was not
                      > asked to take any part in the ceremonies and was not even invited
                      to
                      > be present."
                      > McClellan died Oct. 29, 1885.
                      >
                      > Regards,
                      > Teej
                      >
                    • Thomas Clemens
                      Yes, that new trail is pretty nice. They still need to do some work there. We cut a lot of trees last month, and hope to do some more before spring. I was
                      Message 10 of 18 , Feb 19, 2006
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                        Yes, that new trail is pretty nice. They still need to do some work
                        there. We cut a lot of trees last month, and hope to do some more
                        before spring. I was there yesterday, which I think even colder.
                        Luckily I had a complete goretex suit, and walked the Snavely Ford trail
                        with our dog. Not too cold.

                        Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
                        Professor of History
                        Hagerstown Community College


                        >>> philipkesaris@... 02/19/06 4:31 PM >>>
                      • philipkesaris
                        Agreed Tom. I sat on the edge of that 12th Ohio Monument with my Carman map and the nice Park Service brochure ( The Final Attack Trail )and finally figured
                        Message 11 of 18 , Feb 19, 2006
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                          Agreed Tom. I sat on the edge of that 12th Ohio Monument with my
                          Carman map and the nice Park Service brochure ("The Final Attack
                          Trail")and finally figured out the whole end game of the battle.
                          Phenomenal view, as were the views at stops 2-4, especially this time
                          of year. The whole trail was deserted - dead quiet all afternoon. I
                          was wondering if that hackberry tree next to the stone wall at stop 6
                          (the extreme southern end of NPS property) was a "witness" tree? I
                          imagined it was anyway... The low ground between 6 and 7 gave me a
                          whole new appreciation for the plight of the 4th RI and 16th
                          Connecticut -- talk about a tight spot to be in... Very chilling
                          area... You can't appreciate it from any book - you gotta see the
                          ground, as I'm sure you know well. Let me know when more work needs
                          to be done on this trail (or anywhere else for that matter); I'd be
                          happy to help SHAF out. Take care, - Phil

                          PS: I especially enjoy it when Jeff gets going about Little Mac.
                          Very entertaining to read the back and forth over the years!



                          --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, "Thomas Clemens" <clemenst@...>
                          wrote:
                          >
                          > Yes, that new trail is pretty nice. They still need to do some work
                          > there. We cut a lot of trees last month, and hope to do some more
                          > before spring. I was there yesterday, which I think even colder.
                          > Luckily I had a complete goretex suit, and walked the Snavely Ford
                          trail
                          > with our dog. Not too cold.
                          >
                          > Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
                          > Professor of History
                          > Hagerstown Community College
                          >
                          >
                          > >>> philipkesaris@... 02/19/06 4:31 PM >>>
                          >
                        • Jeff Beckner (PWC Magazine)
                          I know. He visited the field long enough to be talked out of an attack by a guy whose opinions he usually had nothing but contempt for. ... From:
                          Message 12 of 18 , Feb 20, 2006
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                            I know. He visited the field long enough to be talked out of an attack
                            by a guy whose opinions he usually had nothing but contempt for.

                            -----Original Message-----
                            From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com]
                            On Behalf Of Thomas Clemens
                            Sent: Sunday, February 19, 2006 9:30 AM
                            To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                            Subject: RE: [TalkAntietam] McClellan Post-War Visit(s) to Antietam?

                            Not surprising, given your predilictions, but also factually incorrect.
                            (Sorry, couldn't resist!)

                            Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
                            Professor of History
                            Hagerstown Community College


                            >>> jbeckner@... 02/18/06 8:57 PM >>>





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                          • Jeff Beckner (PWC Magazine)
                            A vain but unstable man, who sat a horse well and wanted to be president. Proceed. ... From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com]
                            Message 13 of 18 , Feb 20, 2006
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                              A vain but unstable man, who sat a horse well and wanted to be
                              president.

                              Proceed.

                              -----Original Message-----
                              From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com]
                              On Behalf Of Harry Smeltzer
                              Sent: Sunday, February 19, 2006 9:37 AM
                              To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                              Subject: RE: [TalkAntietam] McClellan Post-War Visit(s) to Antietam?

                              Damn Tom. After all these years, you still take the bait!



                              Now you know Jeff's just going to try to use this to bring up something
                              totally unrelated - "Oh yeah? Well, he was rude to the President. And
                              he said nasty things about other people in private letters to his wife!
                              And he was short, too." Then we'll have to listen to the same old tired
                              Williamsisms all over again.



                              Harry



                              -----Original Message-----
                              From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com]
                              On Behalf Of Thomas Clemens
                              Sent: Sunday, February 19, 2006 10:30 AM
                              To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                              Subject: RE: [TalkAntietam] McClellan Post-War Visit(s) to Antietam?



                              Not surprising, given your predilictions, but also factually incorrect.
                              (Sorry, couldn't resist!)

                              Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
                              Professor of History
                              Hagerstown Community College


                              >>> jbeckner@... 02/18/06 8:57 PM >>>









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                            • Jeff Beckner (PWC Magazine)
                              I knew I was in error, but I was hardly going to let that stand in the way of a cheap shot at Tardy George. Taney said in Dred Scott that a black man had no
                              Message 14 of 18 , Feb 20, 2006
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                                I knew I was in error, but I was hardly going to let that stand in the
                                way of a cheap shot at Tardy George.

                                Taney said in Dred Scott that a black man had no rights a white man was
                                bound to respect. I pretty much think Mac at Antietam is fair game in
                                more or less the same way.

                                -----Original Message-----
                                From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com]
                                On Behalf Of barringer63
                                Sent: Sunday, February 19, 2006 9:54 AM
                                To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                                Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: McClellan Post-War Visit(s) to Antietam?

                                Harry Smeltzer wrote:
                                >
                                > Damn Tom. After all these years, you still take the bait!

                                Both you and Tom are just like guppies when it comes to this. Tom
                                merely commented that Jeff was in error but you, Harry, have given Jeff
                                an outline for at least a week's worth of discussion.

                                Teej









                                Yahoo! Groups Links
                              • Harry Smeltzer
                                What does Sykes have to do with this? I have long seen the similarities between you and Tanney. The two of you are equally admirable. Harry ... From:
                                Message 15 of 18 , Feb 20, 2006
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  What does Sykes have to do with this?



                                  I have long seen the similarities between you and Tanney. The two of you
                                  are equally admirable.



                                  Harry



                                  -----Original Message-----
                                  From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com] On
                                  Behalf Of Jeff Beckner (PWC Magazine)
                                  Sent: Monday, February 20, 2006 9:16 AM
                                  To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                                  Subject: RE: [TalkAntietam] Re: McClellan Post-War Visit(s) to Antietam?



                                  I knew I was in error, but I was hardly going to let that stand in the
                                  way of a cheap shot at Tardy George.

                                  Taney said in Dred Scott that a black man had no rights a white man was
                                  bound to respect. I pretty much think Mac at Antietam is fair game in
                                  more or less the same way.

                                  -----Original Message-----
                                  From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com]
                                  On Behalf Of barringer63
                                  Sent: Sunday, February 19, 2006 9:54 AM
                                  To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                                  Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: McClellan Post-War Visit(s) to Antietam?

                                  Harry Smeltzer wrote:
                                  >
                                  > Damn Tom. After all these years, you still take the bait!

                                  Both you and Tom are just like guppies when it comes to this. Tom
                                  merely commented that Jeff was in error but you, Harry, have given Jeff
                                  an outline for at least a week's worth of discussion.

                                  Teej









                                  Yahoo! Groups Links














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                                • Jeff Beckner (PWC Magazine)
                                  You ll pay for that. ... From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Harry Smeltzer Sent: Monday, February 20, 2006
                                  Message 16 of 18 , Feb 20, 2006
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    You'll pay for that.

                                    -----Original Message-----
                                    From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com]
                                    On Behalf Of Harry Smeltzer
                                    Sent: Monday, February 20, 2006 8:31 AM
                                    To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                                    Subject: RE: [TalkAntietam] Re: McClellan Post-War Visit(s) to Antietam?

                                    What does Sykes have to do with this?



                                    I have long seen the similarities between you and Tanney. The two of
                                    you are equally admirable.



                                    Harry



                                    -----Original Message-----
                                    From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com]
                                    On Behalf Of Jeff Beckner (PWC Magazine)
                                    Sent: Monday, February 20, 2006 9:16 AM
                                    To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                                    Subject: RE: [TalkAntietam] Re: McClellan Post-War Visit(s) to Antietam?



                                    I knew I was in error, but I was hardly going to let that stand in the
                                    way of a cheap shot at Tardy George.

                                    Taney said in Dred Scott that a black man had no rights a white man was
                                    bound to respect. I pretty much think Mac at Antietam is fair game in
                                    more or less the same way.

                                    -----Original Message-----
                                    From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com]
                                    On Behalf Of barringer63
                                    Sent: Sunday, February 19, 2006 9:54 AM
                                    To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                                    Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: McClellan Post-War Visit(s) to Antietam?

                                    Harry Smeltzer wrote:
                                    >
                                    > Damn Tom. After all these years, you still take the bait!

                                    Both you and Tom are just like guppies when it comes to this. Tom
                                    merely commented that Jeff was in error but you, Harry, have given Jeff
                                    an outline for at least a week's worth of discussion.

                                    Teej









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                                  • Harry Smeltzer
                                    Are you saying you are not as admirable as Justice Tanney? Don t sell yourself short, Judge. Harry ... From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                                    Message 17 of 18 , Feb 20, 2006
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                                      Are you saying you are not as admirable as Justice Tanney?



                                      Don't sell yourself short, Judge.



                                      Harry



                                      -----Original Message-----
                                      From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com] On
                                      Behalf Of Jeff Beckner (PWC Magazine)
                                      Sent: Monday, February 20, 2006 10:15 AM
                                      To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                                      Subject: RE: [TalkAntietam] Re: McClellan Post-War Visit(s) to Antietam?



                                      You'll pay for that.

                                      -----Original Message-----
                                      From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com]
                                      On Behalf Of Harry Smeltzer
                                      Sent: Monday, February 20, 2006 8:31 AM
                                      To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                                      Subject: RE: [TalkAntietam] Re: McClellan Post-War Visit(s) to Antietam?

                                      What does Sykes have to do with this?



                                      I have long seen the similarities between you and Tanney. The two of
                                      you are equally admirable.



                                      Harry



                                      -----Original Message-----
                                      From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com]
                                      On Behalf Of Jeff Beckner (PWC Magazine)
                                      Sent: Monday, February 20, 2006 9:16 AM
                                      To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                                      Subject: RE: [TalkAntietam] Re: McClellan Post-War Visit(s) to Antietam?



                                      I knew I was in error, but I was hardly going to let that stand in the
                                      way of a cheap shot at Tardy George.

                                      Taney said in Dred Scott that a black man had no rights a white man was
                                      bound to respect. I pretty much think Mac at Antietam is fair game in
                                      more or less the same way.

                                      -----Original Message-----
                                      From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com]
                                      On Behalf Of barringer63
                                      Sent: Sunday, February 19, 2006 9:54 AM
                                      To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                                      Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: McClellan Post-War Visit(s) to Antietam?

                                      Harry Smeltzer wrote:
                                      >
                                      > Damn Tom. After all these years, you still take the bait!

                                      Both you and Tom are just like guppies when it comes to this. Tom
                                      merely commented that Jeff was in error but you, Harry, have given Jeff
                                      an outline for at least a week's worth of discussion.

                                      Teej









                                      Yahoo! Groups Links














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                                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    • Thomas Clemens
                                      Weak Jeff. But please do keep flailing away. You re bound to hit something, sometime. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      Message 18 of 18 , Feb 20, 2006
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        Weak Jeff. But please do keep flailing away. You're bound to hit
                                        something, sometime.



                                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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