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Confederate Signal Stations

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  • flagflop
    This is an initial posting, so please bear with me. Brian s #2395 of 5 Dec 05 broached the subject of my interest in the Sneden map depicting CS signatl
    Message 1 of 4 , Jan 4, 2006
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      This is an initial posting, so please bear with me. Brian's #2395 of 5 Dec 05 broached the subject of my interest in the Sneden map depicting CS signatl stations (my principal interest), which drew comments from Gerry and Professor Tom, especially as to Sneden's sources.

      I believe it is clear that Sneden was not present--not an eye-witness. As he states on the map which is displayed at AotW, he drew on maps and information available to him at Army HQ (presumably the Winder Bldgd in DC) in the days and weeks after the battle, and dates his compilation Oct 62.

      As to the Piper Farm location, the symbol Sneden uses is not that of a "rebel signal station" (for which he uses a solid black flag, in all cases but one questionable one,with notation), whereas he uses (curiously) a St. Andrew's cross for US signal stations. Hence the one he depicts at the Piper Farm is intended to be Union, post-battle. His other Union stations generally conform to the OR Atlas locations.

      Among various sources, CS use of the Lutheran Church was noted in the c1906 guide, "The Battlefield of Antietam," (R.C. Miller-Oliver T. Riley), unnumbered pages 6-7 of Riley's "Stories of Antietam," and in a walking tour guide, cited by Frassanito (of which I have a photo-copy).

      Stuart's report (OR 19) cites his Chief Signal Officer, Capt. R.E. Frayser, for observations reported from a hill overlooking the battle. (I had long assumed that this was on the left flank, but can't rule out the right, and also saw this as implying a station at Lee's HQ). These "two" were my sole holdings back in 1979, when I provided background information to Betty Otto, librarian at Antietam NPS.

      It may be going too far to assume that the signal stations were netted or used for inter-communication, as opposed to the other main function, observation and reporting. But the Sneden map has me thinking that perhaps there was an "interior lines" net for tactical exchanges, better laid out than credited, with "anchors" on either flank and stations at critical points, north, center, "center-forward"(?--the church), and south with one at HQ. It's this (to me awkward) way of referring to these new sites that prompted my posting, hoping that we might be able to resolve discrepancies in Sneden's compilation, equate to identifiable locations, and adopt some agreed-upon site names.

      Dave Gaddy
    • G E Mayers
      Dear Dave, I think you are on to something here and it would stand to reason about the ANV. However, Lee was using, despite his injuries, excellent management
      Message 2 of 4 , Jan 4, 2006
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        Dear Dave,

        I think you are on to something here and it would stand to reason about the
        ANV. However, Lee was using, despite his injuries, excellent management
        style as opposed to Mac during this battle.

        Another key factor in the Confederate ability to have troops in the
        threatened areas at the right moment was, with the exception of A P Hill,
        the movement of Confederate troops up from Harpers Ferry area via
        Shepherdstown, which brought them right past Lee's HQ.

        Very respectfully,
        G E "Gerry" Mayers

        "As an American citizen I prize the Union very highly
        and know of no personal sacrifice that I would not make
        to preserve it, save that of honour."
        --Robt. E. Lee, Letter to Rooney Lee, 3 December 1860

        ----- Original Message -----
        From: "flagflop" <flagflop@...>
        To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Wednesday, January 04, 2006 3:35 PM
        Subject: [TalkAntietam] Confederate Signal Stations


        >
        > This is an initial posting, so please bear with me. Brian's #2395 of 5 Dec
        > 05 broached the subject of my interest in the Sneden map depicting CS
        > signatl stations (my principal interest), which drew comments from Gerry
        > and Professor Tom, especially as to Sneden's sources.
        >
        > I believe it is clear that Sneden was not present--not an eye-witness. As
        > he states on the map which is displayed at AotW, he drew on maps and
        > information available to him at Army HQ (presumably the Winder Bldgd in
        > DC) in the days and weeks after the battle, and dates his compilation Oct
        > 62.
        >
        > As to the Piper Farm location, the symbol Sneden uses is not that of a
        > "rebel signal station" (for which he uses a solid black flag, in all cases
        > but one questionable one,with notation), whereas he uses (curiously) a St.
        > Andrew's cross for US signal stations. Hence the one he depicts at the
        > Piper Farm is intended to be Union, post-battle. His other Union stations
        > generally conform to the OR Atlas locations.
        >
        > Among various sources, CS use of the Lutheran Church was noted in the
        > c1906 guide, "The Battlefield of Antietam," (R.C. Miller-Oliver T.
        > Riley), unnumbered pages 6-7 of Riley's "Stories of Antietam," and in a
        > walking tour guide, cited by Frassanito (of which I have a photo-copy).
        >
        > Stuart's report (OR 19) cites his Chief Signal Officer, Capt. R.E.
        > Frayser, for observations reported from a hill overlooking the battle. (I
        > had long assumed that this was on the left flank, but can't rule out the
        > right, and also saw this as implying a station at Lee's HQ). These "two"
        > were my sole holdings back in 1979, when I provided background information
        > to Betty Otto, librarian at Antietam NPS.
        >
        > It may be going too far to assume that the signal stations were netted or
        > used for inter-communication, as opposed to the other main function,
        > observation and reporting. But the Sneden map has me thinking that perhaps
        > there was an "interior lines" net for tactical exchanges, better laid out
        > than credited, with "anchors" on either flank and stations at critical
        > points, north, center, "center-forward"(?--the church), and south with one
        > at HQ. It's this (to me awkward) way of referring to these new sites that
        > prompted my posting, hoping that we might be able to resolve discrepancies
        > in Sneden's compilation, equate to identifiable locations, and adopt some
        > agreed-upon site names.
        >
        > Dave Gaddy
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
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        >
      • Thomas Clemens
        Dave, This is a topic worthy of pursuit. I don t recall anything on it off-hand and I am away from my sources. Joe Harsh did a lot of digging on Lee s
        Message 3 of 4 , Jan 4, 2006
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          Dave,
          This is a topic worthy of pursuit. I don't recall anything on it
          off-hand and I am away from my sources. Joe Harsh did a lot of digging
          on Lee's decisions through the 15-17th and how he got information. I do
          not recall anything in Taken at the Flood about it, but will ask him if
          he recollects anything he discovered about it. I owe him a call anyway,
          and will be happy to get back to you if he has anything.
          Tom

          Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
          Professor of History
          Hagerstown Community College


          >>> flagflop@... 01/04/06 3:35 PM >>>
        • G E Mayers
          Dear Tom, How is Joe doing? Has he recovered from his stroke? Very respectfully, G E Gerry Mayers As an American citizen I prize the Union very highly and
          Message 4 of 4 , Jan 4, 2006
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            Dear Tom,

            How is Joe doing? Has he recovered from his stroke?

            Very respectfully,
            G E "Gerry" Mayers

            "As an American citizen I prize the Union very highly
            and know of no personal sacrifice that I would not make
            to preserve it, save that of honour."
            --Robt. E. Lee, Letter to Rooney Lee, 3 December 1860

            ----- Original Message -----
            From: "Thomas Clemens" <clemenst@...>
            To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Wednesday, January 04, 2006 4:06 PM
            Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Confederate Signal Stations


            > Dave,
            > This is a topic worthy of pursuit. I don't recall anything on it
            > off-hand and I am away from my sources. Joe Harsh did a lot of digging
            > on Lee's decisions through the 15-17th and how he got information. I do
            > not recall anything in Taken at the Flood about it, but will ask him if
            > he recollects anything he discovered about it. I owe him a call anyway,
            > and will be happy to get back to you if he has anything.
            > Tom
            >
            > Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
            > Professor of History
            > Hagerstown Community College
            >
            >
            >>>> flagflop@... 01/04/06 3:35 PM >>>
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
            > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
            >
            > a.. Visit your group "TalkAntietam" on the web.
            >
            > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
            > TalkAntietam-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
            >
            > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
            >
            >
            > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
            >
            >
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