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Re: [TalkAntietam] Dr Hash's talk/Nicodemus heights

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  • Tom Clemens
    Cool. Thanks for confirming what I d always thought.
    Message 1 of 9 , Apr 25, 2001
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      Cool. Thanks for confirming what I'd always thought.

      TR Livesey wrote:

      > I sure am happy to be part of this new group - thanks
      > for inviting me.
      >
      > One thing that stood out about Dr Harsh's talk was that
      > Nicodemus Heights are out of range (or out of sight)
      > of the Pry House.
      >
      > I decided to test this by constructing a profile map
      > between the highest point on Nicodemus Heights and
      > the highest point near the Pry House (which is actually
      > kind of behind the house).
      >
      > Indeed, the high ground in the Cornfield (where the
      > Sharpsburg Ridge, or what I call the Battlefield Divide)
      > runs through it. See for yourself:
      >
      > http://www.enteract.com/~westwood/nic_profile.html
      >
      > Regards,
      >
      > TR Livesey
      > westwood@...
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
    • Brian Downey
      ... This sounds interesting, but, as I missed Dr Harsh, I don t know the reference. Does this have to do with whether McClellan could see the Confed positions
      Message 2 of 9 , Apr 26, 2001
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        --- In TalkAntietam@y..., TR Livesey <westwood@e...> wrote:
        ...
        > One thing that stood out about Dr Harsh's talk was that
        > Nicodemus Heights are out of range (or out of sight)
        > of the Pry House.
        >
        This sounds interesting, but, as I missed Dr Harsh, I don't know the
        reference. Does this have to do with whether McClellan could see the
        Confed positions on Nicodemus from his HQ?

        This might also answer the unasked question about why Confederate
        artillerists didn't take a shot at the Pry house directly...

        Brian
      • Mark A. Pflum
        ... The answer to this is actually quite simple! The Confederates did not have any guns heavy enough to have range of the Pry House area. Especially in their
        Message 3 of 9 , Apr 26, 2001
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          --- In TalkAntietam@y..., "Brian Downey" <brdowney@m...> wrote:
          > This might also answer the unasked question about why Confederate
          > artillerists didn't take a shot at the Pry house directly...
          >
          > Brian

          The answer to this is actually quite simple! The Confederates did
          not have any guns heavy enough to have range of the Pry House area.
          Especially in their horse artillery, which I believe was placed upon
          that hill. I'd even venture to say that the National's 20Pdr. guns
          over at the Pry House area would have been sorely taxed to send their
          iron over to the heights, for that matter.

          What is the actual distance between the two points and the
          differences in their elevations? They would be the telling facts if
          the visibility factor allowed them to see one another.

          Mark A. Pflum
          Artillery is the King of Battles!
        • TR Livesey
          Yes, exactly. Dr Hash was questioning the value of Nicodemus Heights. The issue was that had Hooker or whoever tried to take the hill, they would have been
          Message 4 of 9 , Apr 26, 2001
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            Yes, exactly. Dr Hash was questioning the value of Nicodemus
            Heights. The issue was that had Hooker or whoever tried to
            take the hill, they would have been unsupported by artillery
            on the east side of the creek, among other difficulties.

            Regards,
            TR Livesey
            westwood@...

            Brian Downey wrote:
            >
            > --- In TalkAntietam@y..., TR Livesey <westwood@e...> wrote:
            > ...
            > > One thing that stood out about Dr Harsh's talk was that
            > > Nicodemus Heights are out of range (or out of sight)
            > > of the Pry House.
            > >
            > This sounds interesting, but, as I missed Dr Harsh, I don't know the
            > reference. Does this have to do with whether McClellan could see the
            > Confed positions on Nicodemus from his HQ?
            >
            > This might also answer the unasked question about why Confederate
            > artillerists didn't take a shot at the Pry house directly...
            >
            > Brian
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
          • TR Livesey
            By my reckoning, it is about 3,930 meters across the line shown, and the change in elevation is about 5 feet (Nic H: 505 ft, Pry back yard: 510 ft). Regards,
            Message 5 of 9 , Apr 26, 2001
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              By my reckoning, it is about 3,930 meters across the line
              shown, and the change in elevation is about 5 feet (Nic H: 505 ft,
              Pry back yard: 510 ft).

              Regards,
              TR Livesey
              westwood@...

              "Mark A. Pflum" wrote:
              >
              > What is the actual distance between the two points and the
              > differences in their elevations? They would be the telling facts if
              > the visibility factor allowed them to see one another.
              >
              > Mark A. Pflum
              > Artillery is the King of Battles!
            • Tom Clemens
              Right Mark, most of the rebel 20 pdrs. were still in Harpers Ferry. There was a duel with guns across the creek on the 16th, but the distance to the Pry House
              Message 6 of 9 , Apr 26, 2001
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                Right Mark, most of the rebel 20 pdrs. were still in Harpers Ferry. There was a duel with guns across the creek on the 16th, but the
                distance to the Pry House was beyond the range of most of the C.S. guns, and do not forget that McClellan did not establish his HQ there
                until late in theafternoon of the 16th. Certainly no gun could shoot from Nicodemus to Pry House, too far for any field gun, except
                Whitworths. Got one of those?


                "Mark A. Pflum" wrote:

                > --- In TalkAntietam@y..., "Brian Downey" <brdowney@m...> wrote:
                > > This might also answer the unasked question about why Confederate
                > > artillerists didn't take a shot at the Pry house directly...
                > >
                > > Brian
                >
                > The answer to this is actually quite simple! The Confederates did
                > not have any guns heavy enough to have range of the Pry House area.
                > Especially in their horse artillery, which I believe was placed upon
                > that hill. I'd even venture to say that the National's 20Pdr. guns
                > over at the Pry House area would have been sorely taxed to send their
                > iron over to the heights, for that matter.
                >
                > What is the actual distance between the two points and the
                > differences in their elevations? They would be the telling facts if
                > the visibility factor allowed them to see one another.
                >
                > Mark A. Pflum
                > Artillery is the King of Battles!
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
              • Brian Downey
                A great discussion about range from Nicodemus to the Pry House, but I apologise for asking the way I did ... must confess it really wasn t serious inquiry. I
                Message 7 of 9 , Apr 27, 2001
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                  A great discussion about range from Nicodemus to the Pry House, but I
                  apologise for asking the way I did ... must confess it really wasn't
                  serious inquiry. I should have used a smiley face or something :)

                  Brian
                • Mark A. Pflum
                  ... I ... wasn t ... Sir, NEVER trifle with artillery questions when you have guys like Tom and myself present! It s not an interest with some people, it s an
                  Message 8 of 9 , Apr 27, 2001
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                    --- In TalkAntietam@y..., "Brian Downey" <brdowney@m...> wrote:
                    > A great discussion about range from Nicodemus to the Pry House, but
                    I
                    > apologise for asking the way I did ... must confess it really
                    wasn't
                    > serious inquiry. I should have used a smiley face or something :)
                    >
                    > Brian


                    Sir,

                    NEVER trifle with artillery questions when you have guys like Tom and
                    myself present! It's not an interest with some people, it's an
                    obsession! ;^)

                    Mark A. Pflum
                    (incurable redleg)
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