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Re: [TalkAntietam] Re: bibliography

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  • nickrelee@aol.com
    I ve visited the aotw.org site before, its pretty good. I think I will order that CD because one of our members manages a kinkos production facility and he
    Message 1 of 22 , Sep 23, 2005
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      I've visited the aotw.org site before, its pretty good. I think I will
      order that CD because one of our members manages a kinkos production facility and
      he can make nice print outs, laminated if need be, etc. I did see them
      online but the CD is probably the way to go.

      So its sounding like we should definetly do 2 meetings on the northern areas
      of the battlefield, any thoughts on the sunken road and burnside's bridge?

      --Nick



      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Thomas Clemens
      Nick, It wasn t important to identify the author, soI didn t :-) I have not read Teetor s book, waiting for Dennis Frye s. Kagel is worth reading, and IIRC,
      Message 2 of 22 , Sep 24, 2005
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        Nick,
        It wasn't important to identify the author, soI didn't :-)
        I have not read Teetor's book, waiting for Dennis Frye's. Kagel is
        worth reading, and IIRC, there were so many bad reviews of the other
        book that I didn't read it either. I am away from home right now so I
        cannot put my hands on things to jog memory. As for the Carman
        manuscript & Sid Mier, Joe Harsh typed most of the manuscript. What is
        in the LOC is handwritten and very difficult to read. He sold that to
        Sid, which helped fund his research for TAF, etc. Mier only wanted the
        battle chapters so he ignored the chapters you mention, all the way
        through Chap. 29.
        I have done a lot of work editing the first seven or so, but when I got
        to the battle chapters I discovered Carman was leaning heavily on the
        OR's, but also on letters and interviews with veterans who returned to
        the field. Frequently he copies these works word-for-word, but often
        without citations. Because I am trying to find out HOW Carman came to
        know what he wrote, and how accurate it is, I needed to get the letters
        organized. That is proving a mammoth undertaking.
        The letters are scattered, some in the Nat'l. Archives, some in the NY
        Public Lib, some in the New Jersey Historical Society, and he had access
        to some of the Gould Papers. So far I have collected about 6-700 hard
        copies of letters, maps, notes by Carman, etc, from these repositories
        and put them in folders by brigade, etc. I am now going through the NA
        microfilm to see what else exists, and it is a lot. Likely over 600
        more entries, maybe more. When I can assemble all of that, then I can
        compare what Carman wrote to what sources he used. Essentially I am
        just compiling one H*** of a lot of footnotes and a bibliography.
        He is usually as accurate as any later study, but there are times when
        he is wrong, such as believing John Walker's B&L account, but he is far
        more often correct. Maddeninly, there are time when there appears to be
        no source at all for some of his stories, such as Lee's viewing the
        field from the east ridge of the Antietam on Sept. 15 a.m. He must have
        gotten it from someone, but who? No clue so far.
        There are, BTW, some great stories and anecdotes in the letters. Don't
        look for my work being published anytime soon.
        Tom C

        Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
        Professor of History
        Hagerstown Community College


        >>> nickrelee@... 09/23/05 8:47 PM >>>
      • nickrelee@aol.com
        Good luck with that, you really have an ambitious project there. I ve read Kegel but not the other two and thought I d ask a better source before I tackled
        Message 3 of 22 , Sep 24, 2005
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          Good luck with that, you really have an ambitious project there.

          I've read Kegel but not the other two and thought I'd ask a better source
          before I tackled those myself.

          --Nick


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Stephen Recker
          I m trying to find any sites specific to the 1st Minnesota at Antietam, especially the stone wall that they took a position at near the Poffenberger farm. I m
          Message 4 of 22 , Sep 24, 2005
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            I'm trying to find any sites specific to the 1st Minnesota at Antietam,
            especially the stone wall that they took a position at near the
            Poffenberger farm. I'm guessing that it got flattened when Rt. 65
            Bypass was put in, but am not sure. If anyone has hints I'd love to
            hear them Thanks.

            Stephen Recker
          • Steve
            ... was you ... of books not ... Palmer s is a truly dreadful book. His main thesis is that Robert E. Lee exceeded his authority by raiding into the North
            Message 5 of 22 , Sep 24, 2005
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              --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, nickrelee@a... wrote:
              >
              > Tom,
              > I found the article, you were kinda sly in not mentioning that it
              was you
              > that wrote that article. I was wondering your opinion of a couple
              of books not
              > mentioned in your article.
              > A Matter of Hours by Paul Teetor
              > Lee Moves North by Michael Palmer
              > North with Lee and Jackson by James Kegel

              Palmer's is a truly dreadful book. His main thesis is that Robert E.
              Lee "exceeded his authority" by raiding into the North twice without
              the approval of Jefferson Davis, possibly entertaining political
              ambitions of his own. Palmer conveniently ignores the fact that Davis
              *was* consulted both times, and that both raids had Davis' approval.
              The book is historical revisionism at its absolute worst and
              literally not worth the paper it's printed on.

              On the other hand, Kegel's book is *excellent* (one of my favorites,
              in fact), containing extensive footnotes and lots of interesting
              minutiae. It's not strictly an "Antietam" book, though, but it does
              show the "flow" of the early war period (how each battle was actually
              an outgrowth of its predecessor).

              Just my $0.02

              -- Steve Lopez
            • historygirl@adelphia.net
              Steve, There is a stone wall west of the bypass on Lynn Flook s farm which is supposedly that wall. It seems a little too far north to me, but haven t looked
              Message 6 of 22 , Sep 24, 2005
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                Steve,
                There is a stone wall west of the bypass on Lynn Flook's farm which is supposedly that wall. It seems a little too far north to me, but haven't looked at it closely. I think Jay Luvaas identified it as the wall. Maybe it extended farther south and east before the bypass was put in.
                Tom Clemens




                ---- Stephen Recker wrote:

                =============
                I'm trying to find any sites specific to the 1st Minnesota at Antietam,
                especially the stone wall that they took a position at near the
                Poffenberger farm. I'm guessing that it got flattened when Rt. 65
                Bypass was put in, but am not sure. If anyone has hints I'd love to
                hear them Thanks.

                Stephen Recker






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              • G E Mayers
                Dear Nick, As another person somewhat knowledgeable about the Battle of Sharpsburg and in particular about the Sunken Road fight, I might possibly be able to
                Message 7 of 22 , Sep 25, 2005
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                  Dear Nick,

                  As another person somewhat knowledgeable about the Battle of Sharpsburg and
                  in particular about the Sunken Road fight, I might possibly be able to be of
                  assistance...depending on when your group makes its trip.

                  Very respectfully,
                  G E "Gerry" Mayers

                  "As an American citizen I prize the Union very highly
                  and know of no personal sacrifice that I would not make
                  to preserve it, save that of honour."
                  --Robt. E. Lee, Letter to Rooney Lee, 3 December 1860

                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: <nickrelee@...>
                  To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                  Sent: Friday, September 23, 2005 8:37 PM
                  Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] bibliography


                  >
                  > Tom,
                  > I do have a copy of Sid Meier's but when I made a chart of the chapters as
                  > saved on the disk (because the disk sometimes gave them a different
                  > number) it
                  > appears that the disk is missing chapters 1-5,14 and anything past 21,
                  > which
                  > may not even exist. Maybe I'm not looking thru the disk correctly.
                  >
                  > Speaking for myself I'd say the more the merrier on the trip. We just
                  > got
                  > back from this year's trip on Monday (middle tennessee - franklin,
                  > nashville,
                  > spring hill, stones river) so I'm not even sure when we'll start
                  > Antietam.
                  > We just had decided earlier this year that Antietam was next. Right now
                  > I'm
                  > gathering maps, order of battle, biographies (from Warners 2 books) to
                  > make a
                  > binder for us to use. I'm not sure if we'll start before Christmas or
                  > not,
                  > anyway to shorten the story, I think we'll be happy to have others join
                  > us.
                  > My guess is we'll go in August-October.
                  >
                  > Maybe you (or anyone else) can give some opinion on how to break up the
                  > study. My idea was:
                  > 1-Second Manassas
                  > 2-the march north
                  > 3-Harper's Ferry
                  > 4-South Mountain
                  > 5-Antietam, cornfield
                  > 6-Antietam, sunken road
                  > 7-Antietam, burnside's bridge
                  > 8-return to Virginia
                  > Under that setup, if our first meeting was in January then we'd be done in
                  > August and the trip could be Aug, Sept or Oct. We meet for about 1 to 1.5
                  > hours each month so I was wondering if maybe Antietam should be broken
                  > into
                  > maybe 5 meetings. Do it as Hooker/Mansfield assault, Sumner into the
                  > woods,
                  > sunken road and burnside's bridge. That'd be 4 and the fifth could
                  > either be 2
                  > on the sunken road or AP Hill's attack. Do you think there is enough
                  > stuff
                  > happening that devoting 2 meetings to either the middle or southern areas
                  > would
                  > be worthwhile? Does all that make sense?
                  >
                  > --Nick K
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
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                • nickrelee@aol.com
                  I ll keep you posted. Sounds like we ll have a wealth of knowledgable people wanting to join along, sounds good to me. --Nick [Non-text portions of this
                  Message 8 of 22 , Sep 25, 2005
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                    I'll keep you posted. Sounds like we'll have a wealth of knowledgable
                    people wanting to join along, sounds good to me.
                    --Nick


                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Stephen Recker
                    I just got a call from a woman who needs two Manassas tour guides from 2pm - 4pm this Saturday. If you would like me to pass on your name please contact me by
                    Message 9 of 22 , Oct 5, 2005
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                      I just got a call from a woman who needs two Manassas tour guides from
                      2pm - 4pm this Saturday. If you would like me to pass on your name
                      please contact me by private email. Thanks.

                      Stephen Recker
                      Director, Antietam Tours

                      P.O. Box 705
                      Sharpsburg, MD 21782
                      240-217-3664
                      800-417-9596

                      http://www.virtualantietam.com
                      http://www.virtualgettysburg.com
                      http://www.anothersoftwaremiracle.com
                    • G E Mayers
                      Stephen; When do you plan the next phase of initial tests for possible Antietam Tour Guides? Very respectfully, G E Gerry Mayers As an American citizen I
                      Message 10 of 22 , Oct 5, 2005
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                        Stephen;

                        When do you plan the next phase of initial tests for possible Antietam Tour
                        Guides?

                        Very respectfully,
                        G E "Gerry" Mayers

                        "As an American citizen I prize the Union very highly
                        and know of no personal sacrifice that I would not make
                        to preserve it, save that of honour."
                        --Robt. E. Lee, Letter to Rooney Lee, 3 December 1860

                        ----- Original Message -----
                        From: "Stephen Recker" <recker@...>
                        To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                        Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2005 2:30 PM
                        Subject: [TalkAntietam] OT - Manassas guides needed


                        >I just got a call from a woman who needs two Manassas tour guides from
                        > 2pm - 4pm this Saturday. If you would like me to pass on your name
                        > please contact me by private email. Thanks.
                        >
                        > Stephen Recker
                        > Director, Antietam Tours
                        >
                        > P.O. Box 705
                        > Sharpsburg, MD 21782
                        > 240-217-3664
                        > 800-417-9596
                        >
                        > http://www.virtualantietam.com
                        > http://www.virtualgettysburg.com
                        > http://www.anothersoftwaremiracle.com
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > SPONSORED LINKS American civil war Civil war history Civil war
                        > American civil war book American civil war art Civil war battles
                        >
                        >
                        > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                        > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
                        >
                        > a.. Visit your group "TalkAntietam" on the web.
                        >
                        > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                        > TalkAntietam-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                        >
                        > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
                        >
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                        >
                      • Thomas Clemens
                        Can t help, my daughter is getting married that day. Would like to talk wit hyou about SHAF s website when convenient. ... I just got a call from a woman who
                        Message 11 of 22 , Oct 5, 2005
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                          Can't help, my daughter is getting married that day. Would like to talk
                          wit hyou about SHAF's website when convenient.

                          >>> recker@... 10/5/2005 2:30:03 PM >>>
                          I just got a call from a woman who needs two Manassas tour guides from

                          2pm - 4pm this Saturday. If you would like me to pass on your name
                          please contact me by private email. Thanks.

                          Stephen Recker
                          Director, Antietam Tours

                          P.O. Box 705
                          Sharpsburg, MD 21782
                          240-217-3664
                          800-417-9596

                          http://www.virtualantietam.com
                          http://www.virtualgettysburg.com
                          http://www.anothersoftwaremiracle.com








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                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • G E Mayers
                          Stephen, I would suggest you contact Dick Weeks directly. He is very knowledgeable about the field. Very respectfully, G E Gerry Mayers As an American
                          Message 12 of 22 , Oct 5, 2005
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                            Stephen,

                            I would suggest you contact Dick Weeks directly. He is very knowledgeable
                            about the field.

                            Very respectfully,
                            G E "Gerry" Mayers

                            "As an American citizen I prize the Union very highly
                            and know of no personal sacrifice that I would not make
                            to preserve it, save that of honour."
                            --Robt. E. Lee, Letter to Rooney Lee, 3 December 1860

                            ----- Original Message -----
                            From: "Stephen Recker" <recker@...>
                            To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                            Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2005 2:30 PM
                            Subject: [TalkAntietam] OT - Manassas guides needed


                            >I just got a call from a woman who needs two Manassas tour guides from
                            > 2pm - 4pm this Saturday. If you would like me to pass on your name
                            > please contact me by private email. Thanks.
                            >
                            > Stephen Recker
                            > Director, Antietam Tours
                            >
                            > P.O. Box 705
                            > Sharpsburg, MD 21782
                            > 240-217-3664
                            > 800-417-9596
                            >
                            > http://www.virtualantietam.com
                            > http://www.virtualgettysburg.com
                            > http://www.anothersoftwaremiracle.com
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > SPONSORED LINKS American civil war Civil war history Civil war
                            > American civil war book American civil war art Civil war battles
                            >
                            >
                            > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                            > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
                            >
                            > a.. Visit your group "TalkAntietam" on the web.
                            >
                            > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                            > TalkAntietam-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                            >
                            > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
                            >
                            >
                            > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                            >
                            >
                          • Stephen Recker
                            Gerry, Thanks for the question. Tests are being given on an as-needed basis. Anyone who is interested in taking the test to be a guide at Antietam National
                            Message 13 of 22 , Oct 5, 2005
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                              Gerry,

                              Thanks for the question. Tests are being given on an as-needed basis.
                              Anyone who is interested in taking the test to be a guide at Antietam
                              National Battlefield should contact me directly and we'll get you
                              signed up. Thanks.

                              Regards,
                              Stephen Recker
                              Director, Antietam Tours

                              P.O. Box 705
                              Sharpsburg, MD 21782
                              240-217-3664
                              800-417-9596

                              http://www.virtualantietam.com
                              http://www.virtualgettysburg.com
                              http://www.anothersoftwaremiracle.com


                              On Wednesday, October 5, 2005, at 02:32 PM, G E Mayers wrote:

                              > Stephen;
                              >
                              > When do you plan the next phase of initial tests for possible
                              > Antietam Tour
                              > Guides?
                              >
                              > Very respectfully,
                              > G E "Gerry" Mayers
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