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Re: [TalkAntietam] Body Count

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  • Thomas Clemens
    It sounds until 9:00 does not include the West Woods action. That would account for at least some of the disparity. I will look at Carman s chart tonight
    Message 1 of 25 , Aug 24 8:33 AM
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      It sounds "until 9:00" does not include the West Woods action. That
      would account for at least some of the disparity. I will look at
      Carman's chart tonight and get back to you.
      Tom Clemens

      >>> recker@... 8/24/2005 11:00:05 AM >>>

      I am trying to get a handle on the number of casualties in the Morning

      Phase of the battle of Antietam. In the NPS pamphlet called "Casualties

      of Battle" it states that there were 13,860 casualties in the morning
      phase. In the Cornfield Trail pamphlet it states that 'as many as 8,000

      men were killed or wounded from dawn until 9:00 am'.

      I have seen this range stated in a number of places. Is there a
      distinction that I am missing between the two numbers? Thanks.

      Stephen Recker








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    • Stephen Recker
      Thanks, Tom. And the lower number doesn t seem to include captures, although that number is less than one thousand. Stephen Recker
      Message 2 of 25 , Aug 25 5:02 AM
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        Thanks, Tom. And the lower number doesn't seem to include captures,
        although that number is less than one thousand.

        Stephen Recker

        On Wednesday, August 24, 2005, at 11:33 AM, Thomas Clemens wrote:

        >
        > It sounds "until 9:00" does not include the West Woods action. That
        > would account for at least some of the disparity. I will look at
        > Carman's chart tonight and get back to you.
        > Tom Clemens
      • rotbaron@aol.com
        Stephen, Antietam casualties are broken out on the NPS webpage at: http://www.nps.gov/anti/casualty.htm Tom Shay - Cresssona, PA [Non-text portions of this
        Message 3 of 25 , Aug 25 8:59 AM
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          Stephen,

          Antietam casualties are broken out on the NPS webpage at:
          http://www.nps.gov/anti/casualty.htm

          Tom Shay - Cresssona, PA



          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Stephen Recker
          Thanks. These statistics make Tom Clemens case that the pamphlet I was looking at did not include the West Woods. Awesome. Thanks to both Toms. Stephen
          Message 4 of 25 , Aug 25 10:49 AM
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            Thanks. These statistics make Tom Clemens' case that the pamphlet I was
            looking at did not include the West Woods. Awesome. Thanks to both Toms.

            Stephen

            On Thursday, August 25, 2005, at 11:59 AM, rotbaron@... wrote:

            >
            > Stephen,
            >
            > Antietam casualties are broken out on the NPS webpage at:
            > http://www.nps.gov/anti/casualty.htm
            >
            > Tom Shay - Cresssona, PA
          • dickeyr46
            Stephen, just as reinforcement to the two Toms conclusions, Dr. Harsh in Taken at the Flood also addresses casualties up to 9 am and then the total for the
            Message 5 of 25 , Aug 25 2:15 PM
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              Stephen, just as reinforcement to the two Toms' conclusions, Dr. Harsh
              in "Taken at the Flood" also addresses casualties up to 9 am and then
              the total for the "Morning Phase." Addressing up to 9 am (the
              Cornfield and East Woods), on p. 376, Dr. Harsh writes, "In all,
              during the three hours, 27,000 men had struggled over the same 160
              acres and 8,700 (32.2 percent) had fallen." I believe I can accounted
              for 604 missing from units engaged up to this time. If you subtract
              the missing, that comes very close to the "Cornfield Trail" pamphlet
              statement of "as many as 8,000 men were killed or wounded."

              Dr. Harsh concluded on p. 394 that 4,481 caualties occured during the
              fighting in the West Woods and around the Dunker Church. This includes
              casualties suffered by Col. Irwin's brigade in the vicinity of the
              Dunker Church, less those of the 7th Maine. On p. 395, he gives 13,179
              for the total "Morning Phase". Again, very close to the NPS morning
              phase casualty number.

              Dr. Harsh references Section K of Chapter 9 of "Sounding the Shallows"
              to address allocating casualties for units when divisions and even
              regiments could be split between phases.

              Ron Dickey

              --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, Stephen Recker <recker@v...> wrote:
              > Thanks. These statistics make Tom Clemens' case that the pamphlet I was
              > looking at did not include the West Woods. Awesome. Thanks to both Toms.
              >
              > Stephen
            • Stephen Recker
              Great stuff. Thanks. Stephen
              Message 6 of 25 , Aug 25 2:35 PM
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                Great stuff. Thanks.

                Stephen

                On Thursday, August 25, 2005, at 05:15 PM, dickeyr46 wrote:

                > Stephen, just as reinforcement to the two Toms' conclusions, Dr. Harsh
                > in "Taken at the Flood" also addresses casualties up to 9 am and then
                > the total for the "Morning Phase." Addressing up to 9 am (the
                > Cornfield and East Woods), on p. 376, Dr. Harsh writes, "In all,
                > during the three hours, 27,000 men had struggled over the same 160
                > acres and 8,700 (32.2 percent) had fallen." I believe I can accounted
                > for 604 missing from units engaged up to this time. If you subtract
                > the missing, that comes very close to the "Cornfield Trail" pamphlet
                > statement of "as many as 8,000 men were killed or wounded."
                >
                > Dr. Harsh concluded on p. 394 that 4,481 caualties occured during the
                > fighting in the West Woods and around the Dunker Church. This includes
                > casualties suffered by Col. Irwin's brigade in the vicinity of the
                > Dunker Church, less those of the 7th Maine. On p. 395, he gives 13,179
                > for the total "Morning Phase". Again, very close to the NPS morning
                > phase casualty number.
                >
                > Dr. Harsh references Section K of Chapter 9 of "Sounding the Shallows"
                > to address allocating casualties for units when divisions and even
                > regiments could be split between phases.
                >
                > Ron Dickey
                >
                > --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, Stephen Recker <recker@v...>
                > wrote:
                >> Thanks. These statistics make Tom Clemens' case that the pamphlet I
                >> was
                >> looking at did not include the West Woods. Awesome. Thanks to both
                >> Toms.
                >>
                >> Stephen
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