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RE: [TalkAntietam] Wings

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  • Harry Smeltzer
    Is that the set that comes in a zip-lock baggie? I think I have that as well. Harry ... From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
    Message 1 of 25 , Aug 16, 2005
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      Is that the set that comes in a zip-lock baggie? I think I have that as
      well.



      Harry



      -----Original Message-----
      From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com] On
      Behalf Of Stephen Recker
      Sent: Tuesday, August 16, 2005 8:33 AM
      To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Wings



      Tom,

      Thanks for pointing me to this. I have a stack of park brochures and
      found it in there. It is really helpful.

      Actually I never really looked through this stack of brochures, but
      there is some really great stuff in hear. The Antietam bookstore sells
      the whole bunch for about $1. What a great deal.

      Stephen



      On Tuesday, August 16, 2005, at 08:51 AM, Thomas Clemens wrote:

      > The best summary of casualtires by location that I have seen is one
      > made
      > up by the interp staff and I carry in my notebook. I'll be happy to
      > make a copy for you, or talk to Keith.
      > Tom









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    • Stephen Recker
      I am trying to get a handle on the number of casualties in the Morning Phase of the battle of Antietam. In the NPS pamphlet called Casualties of Battle it
      Message 2 of 25 , Aug 24, 2005
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        I am trying to get a handle on the number of casualties in the Morning
        Phase of the battle of Antietam. In the NPS pamphlet called "Casualties
        of Battle" it states that there were 13,860 casualties in the morning
        phase. In the Cornfield Trail pamphlet it states that 'as many as 8,000
        men were killed or wounded from dawn until 9:00 am'.

        I have seen this range stated in a number of places. Is there a
        distinction that I am missing between the two numbers? Thanks.

        Stephen Recker
      • Thomas Clemens
        It sounds until 9:00 does not include the West Woods action. That would account for at least some of the disparity. I will look at Carman s chart tonight
        Message 3 of 25 , Aug 24, 2005
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          It sounds "until 9:00" does not include the West Woods action. That
          would account for at least some of the disparity. I will look at
          Carman's chart tonight and get back to you.
          Tom Clemens

          >>> recker@... 8/24/2005 11:00:05 AM >>>

          I am trying to get a handle on the number of casualties in the Morning

          Phase of the battle of Antietam. In the NPS pamphlet called "Casualties

          of Battle" it states that there were 13,860 casualties in the morning
          phase. In the Cornfield Trail pamphlet it states that 'as many as 8,000

          men were killed or wounded from dawn until 9:00 am'.

          I have seen this range stated in a number of places. Is there a
          distinction that I am missing between the two numbers? Thanks.

          Stephen Recker








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          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Stephen Recker
          Thanks, Tom. And the lower number doesn t seem to include captures, although that number is less than one thousand. Stephen Recker
          Message 4 of 25 , Aug 25, 2005
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            Thanks, Tom. And the lower number doesn't seem to include captures,
            although that number is less than one thousand.

            Stephen Recker

            On Wednesday, August 24, 2005, at 11:33 AM, Thomas Clemens wrote:

            >
            > It sounds "until 9:00" does not include the West Woods action. That
            > would account for at least some of the disparity. I will look at
            > Carman's chart tonight and get back to you.
            > Tom Clemens
          • rotbaron@aol.com
            Stephen, Antietam casualties are broken out on the NPS webpage at: http://www.nps.gov/anti/casualty.htm Tom Shay - Cresssona, PA [Non-text portions of this
            Message 5 of 25 , Aug 25, 2005
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              Stephen,

              Antietam casualties are broken out on the NPS webpage at:
              http://www.nps.gov/anti/casualty.htm

              Tom Shay - Cresssona, PA



              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Stephen Recker
              Thanks. These statistics make Tom Clemens case that the pamphlet I was looking at did not include the West Woods. Awesome. Thanks to both Toms. Stephen
              Message 6 of 25 , Aug 25, 2005
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                Thanks. These statistics make Tom Clemens' case that the pamphlet I was
                looking at did not include the West Woods. Awesome. Thanks to both Toms.

                Stephen

                On Thursday, August 25, 2005, at 11:59 AM, rotbaron@... wrote:

                >
                > Stephen,
                >
                > Antietam casualties are broken out on the NPS webpage at:
                > http://www.nps.gov/anti/casualty.htm
                >
                > Tom Shay - Cresssona, PA
              • dickeyr46
                Stephen, just as reinforcement to the two Toms conclusions, Dr. Harsh in Taken at the Flood also addresses casualties up to 9 am and then the total for the
                Message 7 of 25 , Aug 25, 2005
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                  Stephen, just as reinforcement to the two Toms' conclusions, Dr. Harsh
                  in "Taken at the Flood" also addresses casualties up to 9 am and then
                  the total for the "Morning Phase." Addressing up to 9 am (the
                  Cornfield and East Woods), on p. 376, Dr. Harsh writes, "In all,
                  during the three hours, 27,000 men had struggled over the same 160
                  acres and 8,700 (32.2 percent) had fallen." I believe I can accounted
                  for 604 missing from units engaged up to this time. If you subtract
                  the missing, that comes very close to the "Cornfield Trail" pamphlet
                  statement of "as many as 8,000 men were killed or wounded."

                  Dr. Harsh concluded on p. 394 that 4,481 caualties occured during the
                  fighting in the West Woods and around the Dunker Church. This includes
                  casualties suffered by Col. Irwin's brigade in the vicinity of the
                  Dunker Church, less those of the 7th Maine. On p. 395, he gives 13,179
                  for the total "Morning Phase". Again, very close to the NPS morning
                  phase casualty number.

                  Dr. Harsh references Section K of Chapter 9 of "Sounding the Shallows"
                  to address allocating casualties for units when divisions and even
                  regiments could be split between phases.

                  Ron Dickey

                  --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, Stephen Recker <recker@v...> wrote:
                  > Thanks. These statistics make Tom Clemens' case that the pamphlet I was
                  > looking at did not include the West Woods. Awesome. Thanks to both Toms.
                  >
                  > Stephen
                • Stephen Recker
                  Great stuff. Thanks. Stephen
                  Message 8 of 25 , Aug 25, 2005
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                    Great stuff. Thanks.

                    Stephen

                    On Thursday, August 25, 2005, at 05:15 PM, dickeyr46 wrote:

                    > Stephen, just as reinforcement to the two Toms' conclusions, Dr. Harsh
                    > in "Taken at the Flood" also addresses casualties up to 9 am and then
                    > the total for the "Morning Phase." Addressing up to 9 am (the
                    > Cornfield and East Woods), on p. 376, Dr. Harsh writes, "In all,
                    > during the three hours, 27,000 men had struggled over the same 160
                    > acres and 8,700 (32.2 percent) had fallen." I believe I can accounted
                    > for 604 missing from units engaged up to this time. If you subtract
                    > the missing, that comes very close to the "Cornfield Trail" pamphlet
                    > statement of "as many as 8,000 men were killed or wounded."
                    >
                    > Dr. Harsh concluded on p. 394 that 4,481 caualties occured during the
                    > fighting in the West Woods and around the Dunker Church. This includes
                    > casualties suffered by Col. Irwin's brigade in the vicinity of the
                    > Dunker Church, less those of the 7th Maine. On p. 395, he gives 13,179
                    > for the total "Morning Phase". Again, very close to the NPS morning
                    > phase casualty number.
                    >
                    > Dr. Harsh references Section K of Chapter 9 of "Sounding the Shallows"
                    > to address allocating casualties for units when divisions and even
                    > regiments could be split between phases.
                    >
                    > Ron Dickey
                    >
                    > --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, Stephen Recker <recker@v...>
                    > wrote:
                    >> Thanks. These statistics make Tom Clemens' case that the pamphlet I
                    >> was
                    >> looking at did not include the West Woods. Awesome. Thanks to both
                    >> Toms.
                    >>
                    >> Stephen
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