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Re: [TalkAntietam] Kevin Rawlings

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  • G E Mayers
    Paula, Let me know which address works for you and I will enter it in my address book as well. Very respectfully, G E Gerry Mayers As an American citizen I
    Message 1 of 25 , Aug 10, 2005
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      Paula,

      Let me know which address works for you and I will enter it in my address
      book as well.

      Very respectfully,
      G E "Gerry" Mayers

      "As an American citizen I prize the Union very highly
      and know of no personal sacrifice that I would not make
      to preserve it, save that of honour."
      --Robt. E. Lee, Letter to Rooney Lee, 3 December 1860

      ----- Original Message -----
      From: <128thpa@...>
      To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2005 5:03 PM
      Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Kevin Rawlings


      > Thanks Gerry, I couldn remember his internet provider.
      >
      > Paula
      >
      > -------------- Original message --------------
      > Paula;
      >
      > Did you try cwsanta@... or civilwarsanta@...?
      >
      > Very respectfully,
      > G E "Gerry" Mayers
      >
      > "As an American citizen I prize the Union very highly
      > and know of no personal sacrifice that I would not make
      > to preserve it, save that of honour."
      > --Robt. E. Lee, Letter to Rooney Lee, 3 December 1860
      >
      > ----- Original Message -----
      > From: <128thpa@...>
      > To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
      > Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2005 12:30 PM
      > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Kevin Rawlings
      >
      >
      >>
      >> Will Kevin Rawlings please contact me (or if someone has his email could
      >> you send it to me please?).
      >>
      >> Kevin: If you are out there, Pennypacker Mills is trying to get in touch
      >> with you, but the email I sent them bounced, so I need a good one!!!
      >>
      >> Sorry to interrupt the list.
      >>
      >> Paula
      >>
      >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >>
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    • 128thpa@comcast.net
      Gerry wrote: Neither of them Gerry! Paula [Non-text portions of
      Message 2 of 25 , Aug 10, 2005
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        Gerry wrote: <<Let me know which address works for you and I will enter it in my address
        book as well.>>
        Neither of them Gerry!
        Paula

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Stephen Recker
        Somewhere I got the impression that McClellan dissolved the Wing structure of the AOP after the Battle of South Mountain. This would explain how Hooker and
        Message 3 of 25 , Aug 15, 2005
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          Somewhere I got the impression that McClellan dissolved the Wing
          structure of the AOP after the Battle of South Mountain. This would
          explain how Hooker and Burnside ended up on opposite ends of the field.

          If this was so, why did McClellan tell Sumner, as Wing Commander, to
          send in the XII Corps?

          Any thoughts? Thanks.

          Stephen Recker
        • Stephen Recker
          What is considered the best overview of casualties as broken down by geographical area on the Antietam Battlefield? The CWTI special issue has that great
          Message 4 of 25 , Aug 15, 2005
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            What is considered the best overview of casualties as broken down by
            geographical area on the Antietam Battlefield? The CWTI special issue
            has that great casualty chart, based on Carman, but it is broken down
            by command. Thanks.

            Stephen Recker
          • Harry Smeltzer
            I don t think the Wing structure was dissolved. In fact, Burnside was still a wing commander - Hooker was detached. This left Burnside with only one corps in
            Message 5 of 25 , Aug 15, 2005
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              I don't think the Wing structure was dissolved. In fact, Burnside was still
              a wing commander - Hooker was detached. This left Burnside with only one
              corps in his wing, 9th Corps. Cox was in direct command of 9th Corps.
              Burnside really served no useful purpose in this case, though orders from
              army command were still filtered through his staff to Cox. This situation
              has been described as contributing to the troubles at the Lower Bridge.



              Harry



              -----Original Message-----
              From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com] On
              Behalf Of Stephen Recker
              Sent: Monday, August 15, 2005 4:03 PM
              To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: [TalkAntietam] Wings



              Somewhere I got the impression that McClellan dissolved the Wing
              structure of the AOP after the Battle of South Mountain. This would
              explain how Hooker and Burnside ended up on opposite ends of the field.

              If this was so, why did McClellan tell Sumner, as Wing Commander, to
              send in the XII Corps?

              Any thoughts? Thanks.

              Stephen Recker









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            • G E Mayers
              Dear Stephen, Could it possibly be due to the fact that Mansfield had no combat experience prior to being given command of the 12th Corps? Very respectfully,
              Message 6 of 25 , Aug 15, 2005
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                Dear Stephen,

                Could it possibly be due to the fact that Mansfield had "no" combat
                experience prior to being given command of the 12th Corps?

                Very respectfully,
                G E "Gerry" Mayers

                "As an American citizen I prize the Union very highly
                and know of no personal sacrifice that I would not make
                to preserve it, save that of honour."
                --Robt. E. Lee, Letter to Rooney Lee, 3 December 1860

                ----- Original Message -----
                From: "Stephen Recker" <recker@...>
                To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                Sent: Monday, August 15, 2005 5:02 PM
                Subject: [TalkAntietam] Wings


                > Somewhere I got the impression that McClellan dissolved the Wing
                > structure of the AOP after the Battle of South Mountain. This would
                > explain how Hooker and Burnside ended up on opposite ends of the field.
                >
                > If this was so, why did McClellan tell Sumner, as Wing Commander, to
                > send in the XII Corps?
                >
                > Any thoughts? Thanks.
                >
                > Stephen Recker
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
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              • G E Mayers
                Dear Stephen, I am not sure, but John Nelson has an excellent CD detailing the Federal casualties and a listing of all the Field Hospitals. Would this be
                Message 7 of 25 , Aug 15, 2005
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                  Dear Stephen,

                  I am not sure, but John Nelson has an excellent CD detailing the Federal
                  casualties and a listing of all the Field Hospitals. Would this be helpful?

                  Very respectfully,
                  G E "Gerry" Mayers

                  "As an American citizen I prize the Union very highly
                  and know of no personal sacrifice that I would not make
                  to preserve it, save that of honour."
                  --Robt. E. Lee, Letter to Rooney Lee, 3 December 1860

                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: "Stephen Recker" <recker@...>
                  To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                  Sent: Monday, August 15, 2005 5:06 PM
                  Subject: [TalkAntietam] Body Count


                  > What is considered the best overview of casualties as broken down by
                  > geographical area on the Antietam Battlefield? The CWTI special issue
                  > has that great casualty chart, based on Carman, but it is broken down
                  > by command. Thanks.
                  >
                  > Stephen Recker
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
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                • Thomas Clemens
                  Steve, The wings order was made offiical on Sept. 14, by Special Order. See p. 290, OR, Vol. 19 pt. 2. It was suspended on Sept. 15, see p. 297, op. cit.
                  Message 8 of 25 , Aug 16, 2005
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                    Steve,
                    The "wings" order was made offiical on Sept. 14, by Special Order. See
                    p. 290, OR, Vol. 19 pt. 2. It was suspended on Sept. 15, see p. 297,
                    op. cit.
                    The best summary of casualtires by location that I have seen is one made
                    up by the interp staff and I carry in my notebook. I'll be happy to
                    make a copy for you, or talk to Keith.
                    Tom

                    Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
                    Professor of History
                    Hagerstown Community College


                    >>> recker@... 08/15/05 5:02 PM >>>
                  • Harry Smeltzer
                    Tom, Then why was Burnside still acting as wing commander, and Cox as 9th Corps commander? Harry ... From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                    Message 9 of 25 , Aug 16, 2005
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                      Tom,



                      Then why was Burnside still acting as wing commander, and Cox as 9th Corps
                      commander?



                      Harry



                      -----Original Message-----
                      From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com] On
                      Behalf Of Thomas Clemens
                      Sent: Tuesday, August 16, 2005 7:51 AM
                      To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Wings



                      Steve,
                      The "wings" order was made offiical on Sept. 14, by Special Order. See
                      p. 290, OR, Vol. 19 pt. 2. It was suspended on Sept. 15, see p. 297,
                      op. cit.
                      The best summary of casualtires by location that I have seen is one made
                      up by the interp staff and I carry in my notebook. I'll be happy to
                      make a copy for you, or talk to Keith.
                      Tom

                      Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
                      Professor of History
                      Hagerstown Community College


                      >>> recker@... 08/15/05 5:02 PM >>>









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                    • Stephen Recker
                      It is interesting that taking one of two corps out of a wing could be considered a detachment. I smell intrigue. I ve heard the the Burnside, in his
                      Message 10 of 25 , Aug 16, 2005
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                        It is interesting that taking one of two corps out of a wing could be
                        considered a detachment. I smell intrigue.

                        I've heard the the Burnside, in his supernumary (sp?) position was
                        either in his tent most of the morning or standing next to Cox
                        intimidating him. Which was it? Thanks.

                        Stephen

                        On Monday, August 15, 2005, at 05:14 PM, Harry Smeltzer wrote:

                        > I don't think the Wing structure was dissolved. In fact, Burnside was
                        > still
                        > a wing commander - Hooker was detached. This left Burnside with only
                        > one
                        > corps in his wing, 9th Corps. Cox was in direct command of 9th Corps.
                        > Burnside really served no useful purpose in this case, though orders
                        > from
                        > army command were still filtered through his staff to Cox. This
                        > situation
                        > has been described as contributing to the troubles at the Lower Bridge.
                        >
                      • Stephen Recker
                        Interesting thought. Stephen
                        Message 11 of 25 , Aug 16, 2005
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                          Interesting thought.

                          Stephen

                          On Monday, August 15, 2005, at 10:52 PM, G E Mayers wrote:

                          > Could it possibly be due to the fact that Mansfield had "no" combat
                          > experience prior to being given command of the 12th Corps?
                        • Stephen Recker
                          Gerry, Thanks for this recommendation. I think they have this at the Antietam bookstore. I ll check it out. Stephen
                          Message 12 of 25 , Aug 16, 2005
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                            Gerry,

                            Thanks for this recommendation. I think they have this at the Antietam
                            bookstore. I'll check it out.

                            Stephen

                            On Monday, August 15, 2005, at 10:53 PM, G E Mayers wrote:

                            > Dear Stephen,
                            >
                            > I am not sure, but John Nelson has an excellent CD detailing the
                            > Federal
                            > casualties and a listing of all the Field Hospitals. Would this be
                            > helpful?
                            >
                            > Very respectfully,
                            > G E "Gerry" Mayers
                          • Stephen Recker
                            Tom, Thanks for pointing me to this. I have a stack of park brochures and found it in there. It is really helpful. Actually I never really looked through this
                            Message 13 of 25 , Aug 16, 2005
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                              Tom,

                              Thanks for pointing me to this. I have a stack of park brochures and
                              found it in there. It is really helpful.

                              Actually I never really looked through this stack of brochures, but
                              there is some really great stuff in hear. The Antietam bookstore sells
                              the whole bunch for about $1. What a great deal.

                              Stephen



                              On Tuesday, August 16, 2005, at 08:51 AM, Thomas Clemens wrote:

                              > The best summary of casualtires by location that I have seen is one
                              > made
                              > up by the interp staff and I carry in my notebook. I'll be happy to
                              > make a copy for you, or talk to Keith.
                              > Tom
                            • Stephen Recker
                              Excellent. I ll look these up. Thanks. There is a sad irony in the second note - Brig. Gen. J. K. F. Mansfield is TEMPORARILY assigned to the command of
                              Message 14 of 25 , Aug 16, 2005
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                                Excellent. I'll look these up. Thanks.

                                There is a sad irony in the second note - "Brig. Gen. J. K. F.
                                Mansfield is TEMPORARILY assigned to the command of Bank's (12) corps."

                                Stephen

                                On Tuesday, August 16, 2005, at 08:51 AM, Thomas Clemens wrote:

                                > The "wings" order was made offiical on Sept. 14, by Special Order. See
                                > p. 290, OR, Vol. 19 pt. 2. It was suspended on Sept. 15, see p. 297,
                                > op. cit.
                              • Harry Smeltzer
                                Is that the set that comes in a zip-lock baggie? I think I have that as well. Harry ... From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                                Message 15 of 25 , Aug 16, 2005
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                                  Is that the set that comes in a zip-lock baggie? I think I have that as
                                  well.



                                  Harry



                                  -----Original Message-----
                                  From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com] On
                                  Behalf Of Stephen Recker
                                  Sent: Tuesday, August 16, 2005 8:33 AM
                                  To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                                  Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Wings



                                  Tom,

                                  Thanks for pointing me to this. I have a stack of park brochures and
                                  found it in there. It is really helpful.

                                  Actually I never really looked through this stack of brochures, but
                                  there is some really great stuff in hear. The Antietam bookstore sells
                                  the whole bunch for about $1. What a great deal.

                                  Stephen



                                  On Tuesday, August 16, 2005, at 08:51 AM, Thomas Clemens wrote:

                                  > The best summary of casualtires by location that I have seen is one
                                  > made
                                  > up by the interp staff and I carry in my notebook. I'll be happy to
                                  > make a copy for you, or talk to Keith.
                                  > Tom









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                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                • Stephen Recker
                                  I am trying to get a handle on the number of casualties in the Morning Phase of the battle of Antietam. In the NPS pamphlet called Casualties of Battle it
                                  Message 16 of 25 , Aug 24, 2005
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                                    I am trying to get a handle on the number of casualties in the Morning
                                    Phase of the battle of Antietam. In the NPS pamphlet called "Casualties
                                    of Battle" it states that there were 13,860 casualties in the morning
                                    phase. In the Cornfield Trail pamphlet it states that 'as many as 8,000
                                    men were killed or wounded from dawn until 9:00 am'.

                                    I have seen this range stated in a number of places. Is there a
                                    distinction that I am missing between the two numbers? Thanks.

                                    Stephen Recker
                                  • Thomas Clemens
                                    It sounds until 9:00 does not include the West Woods action. That would account for at least some of the disparity. I will look at Carman s chart tonight
                                    Message 17 of 25 , Aug 24, 2005
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                                      It sounds "until 9:00" does not include the West Woods action. That
                                      would account for at least some of the disparity. I will look at
                                      Carman's chart tonight and get back to you.
                                      Tom Clemens

                                      >>> recker@... 8/24/2005 11:00:05 AM >>>

                                      I am trying to get a handle on the number of casualties in the Morning

                                      Phase of the battle of Antietam. In the NPS pamphlet called "Casualties

                                      of Battle" it states that there were 13,860 casualties in the morning
                                      phase. In the Cornfield Trail pamphlet it states that 'as many as 8,000

                                      men were killed or wounded from dawn until 9:00 am'.

                                      I have seen this range stated in a number of places. Is there a
                                      distinction that I am missing between the two numbers? Thanks.

                                      Stephen Recker








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                                    • Stephen Recker
                                      Thanks, Tom. And the lower number doesn t seem to include captures, although that number is less than one thousand. Stephen Recker
                                      Message 18 of 25 , Aug 25, 2005
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                                        Thanks, Tom. And the lower number doesn't seem to include captures,
                                        although that number is less than one thousand.

                                        Stephen Recker

                                        On Wednesday, August 24, 2005, at 11:33 AM, Thomas Clemens wrote:

                                        >
                                        > It sounds "until 9:00" does not include the West Woods action. That
                                        > would account for at least some of the disparity. I will look at
                                        > Carman's chart tonight and get back to you.
                                        > Tom Clemens
                                      • rotbaron@aol.com
                                        Stephen, Antietam casualties are broken out on the NPS webpage at: http://www.nps.gov/anti/casualty.htm Tom Shay - Cresssona, PA [Non-text portions of this
                                        Message 19 of 25 , Aug 25, 2005
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                                          Stephen,

                                          Antietam casualties are broken out on the NPS webpage at:
                                          http://www.nps.gov/anti/casualty.htm

                                          Tom Shay - Cresssona, PA



                                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                        • Stephen Recker
                                          Thanks. These statistics make Tom Clemens case that the pamphlet I was looking at did not include the West Woods. Awesome. Thanks to both Toms. Stephen
                                          Message 20 of 25 , Aug 25, 2005
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                                            Thanks. These statistics make Tom Clemens' case that the pamphlet I was
                                            looking at did not include the West Woods. Awesome. Thanks to both Toms.

                                            Stephen

                                            On Thursday, August 25, 2005, at 11:59 AM, rotbaron@... wrote:

                                            >
                                            > Stephen,
                                            >
                                            > Antietam casualties are broken out on the NPS webpage at:
                                            > http://www.nps.gov/anti/casualty.htm
                                            >
                                            > Tom Shay - Cresssona, PA
                                          • dickeyr46
                                            Stephen, just as reinforcement to the two Toms conclusions, Dr. Harsh in Taken at the Flood also addresses casualties up to 9 am and then the total for the
                                            Message 21 of 25 , Aug 25, 2005
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                                              Stephen, just as reinforcement to the two Toms' conclusions, Dr. Harsh
                                              in "Taken at the Flood" also addresses casualties up to 9 am and then
                                              the total for the "Morning Phase." Addressing up to 9 am (the
                                              Cornfield and East Woods), on p. 376, Dr. Harsh writes, "In all,
                                              during the three hours, 27,000 men had struggled over the same 160
                                              acres and 8,700 (32.2 percent) had fallen." I believe I can accounted
                                              for 604 missing from units engaged up to this time. If you subtract
                                              the missing, that comes very close to the "Cornfield Trail" pamphlet
                                              statement of "as many as 8,000 men were killed or wounded."

                                              Dr. Harsh concluded on p. 394 that 4,481 caualties occured during the
                                              fighting in the West Woods and around the Dunker Church. This includes
                                              casualties suffered by Col. Irwin's brigade in the vicinity of the
                                              Dunker Church, less those of the 7th Maine. On p. 395, he gives 13,179
                                              for the total "Morning Phase". Again, very close to the NPS morning
                                              phase casualty number.

                                              Dr. Harsh references Section K of Chapter 9 of "Sounding the Shallows"
                                              to address allocating casualties for units when divisions and even
                                              regiments could be split between phases.

                                              Ron Dickey

                                              --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, Stephen Recker <recker@v...> wrote:
                                              > Thanks. These statistics make Tom Clemens' case that the pamphlet I was
                                              > looking at did not include the West Woods. Awesome. Thanks to both Toms.
                                              >
                                              > Stephen
                                            • Stephen Recker
                                              Great stuff. Thanks. Stephen
                                              Message 22 of 25 , Aug 25, 2005
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                                                Great stuff. Thanks.

                                                Stephen

                                                On Thursday, August 25, 2005, at 05:15 PM, dickeyr46 wrote:

                                                > Stephen, just as reinforcement to the two Toms' conclusions, Dr. Harsh
                                                > in "Taken at the Flood" also addresses casualties up to 9 am and then
                                                > the total for the "Morning Phase." Addressing up to 9 am (the
                                                > Cornfield and East Woods), on p. 376, Dr. Harsh writes, "In all,
                                                > during the three hours, 27,000 men had struggled over the same 160
                                                > acres and 8,700 (32.2 percent) had fallen." I believe I can accounted
                                                > for 604 missing from units engaged up to this time. If you subtract
                                                > the missing, that comes very close to the "Cornfield Trail" pamphlet
                                                > statement of "as many as 8,000 men were killed or wounded."
                                                >
                                                > Dr. Harsh concluded on p. 394 that 4,481 caualties occured during the
                                                > fighting in the West Woods and around the Dunker Church. This includes
                                                > casualties suffered by Col. Irwin's brigade in the vicinity of the
                                                > Dunker Church, less those of the 7th Maine. On p. 395, he gives 13,179
                                                > for the total "Morning Phase". Again, very close to the NPS morning
                                                > phase casualty number.
                                                >
                                                > Dr. Harsh references Section K of Chapter 9 of "Sounding the Shallows"
                                                > to address allocating casualties for units when divisions and even
                                                > regiments could be split between phases.
                                                >
                                                > Ron Dickey
                                                >
                                                > --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, Stephen Recker <recker@v...>
                                                > wrote:
                                                >> Thanks. These statistics make Tom Clemens' case that the pamphlet I
                                                >> was
                                                >> looking at did not include the West Woods. Awesome. Thanks to both
                                                >> Toms.
                                                >>
                                                >> Stephen
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