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Re: [TalkAntietam] Kevin Rawlings

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  • G E Mayers
    Paula; Did you try cwsanta@yahoo.com or civilwarsanta@yahoo.com? Very respectfully, G E Gerry Mayers As an American citizen I prize the Union very highly
    Message 1 of 25 , Aug 10, 2005
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      Paula;

      Did you try cwsanta@... or civilwarsanta@...?

      Very respectfully,
      G E "Gerry" Mayers

      "As an American citizen I prize the Union very highly
      and know of no personal sacrifice that I would not make
      to preserve it, save that of honour."
      --Robt. E. Lee, Letter to Rooney Lee, 3 December 1860

      ----- Original Message -----
      From: <128thpa@...>
      To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2005 12:30 PM
      Subject: [TalkAntietam] Kevin Rawlings


      >
      > Will Kevin Rawlings please contact me (or if someone has his email could
      > you send it to me please?).
      >
      > Kevin: If you are out there, Pennypacker Mills is trying to get in touch
      > with you, but the email I sent them bounced, so I need a good one!!!
      >
      > Sorry to interrupt the list.
      >
      > Paula
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
      >
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    • 128thpa@comcast.net
      Thanks Gerry, I couldn remember his internet provider. Paula ... Paula; Did you try cwsanta@yahoo.com or civilwarsanta@yahoo.com? Very respectfully, G E
      Message 2 of 25 , Aug 10, 2005
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        Thanks Gerry, I couldn remember his internet provider.

        Paula

        -------------- Original message --------------
        Paula;

        Did you try cwsanta@... or civilwarsanta@...?

        Very respectfully,
        G E "Gerry" Mayers

        "As an American citizen I prize the Union very highly
        and know of no personal sacrifice that I would not make
        to preserve it, save that of honour."
        --Robt. E. Lee, Letter to Rooney Lee, 3 December 1860

        ----- Original Message -----
        From: <128thpa@...>
        To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2005 12:30 PM
        Subject: [TalkAntietam] Kevin Rawlings


        >
        > Will Kevin Rawlings please contact me (or if someone has his email could
        > you send it to me please?).
        >
        > Kevin: If you are out there, Pennypacker Mills is trying to get in touch
        > with you, but the email I sent them bounced, so I need a good one!!!
        >
        > Sorry to interrupt the list.
        >
        > Paula
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
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        >









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      • G E Mayers
        Paula, Let me know which address works for you and I will enter it in my address book as well. Very respectfully, G E Gerry Mayers As an American citizen I
        Message 3 of 25 , Aug 10, 2005
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          Paula,

          Let me know which address works for you and I will enter it in my address
          book as well.

          Very respectfully,
          G E "Gerry" Mayers

          "As an American citizen I prize the Union very highly
          and know of no personal sacrifice that I would not make
          to preserve it, save that of honour."
          --Robt. E. Lee, Letter to Rooney Lee, 3 December 1860

          ----- Original Message -----
          From: <128thpa@...>
          To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2005 5:03 PM
          Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Kevin Rawlings


          > Thanks Gerry, I couldn remember his internet provider.
          >
          > Paula
          >
          > -------------- Original message --------------
          > Paula;
          >
          > Did you try cwsanta@... or civilwarsanta@...?
          >
          > Very respectfully,
          > G E "Gerry" Mayers
          >
          > "As an American citizen I prize the Union very highly
          > and know of no personal sacrifice that I would not make
          > to preserve it, save that of honour."
          > --Robt. E. Lee, Letter to Rooney Lee, 3 December 1860
          >
          > ----- Original Message -----
          > From: <128thpa@...>
          > To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
          > Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2005 12:30 PM
          > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Kevin Rawlings
          >
          >
          >>
          >> Will Kevin Rawlings please contact me (or if someone has his email could
          >> you send it to me please?).
          >>
          >> Kevin: If you are out there, Pennypacker Mills is trying to get in touch
          >> with you, but the email I sent them bounced, so I need a good one!!!
          >>
          >> Sorry to interrupt the list.
          >>
          >> Paula
          >>
          >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >>
          >>
          >>
          >>
          >>
          >>
          >>
          >>
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          >> Service.
          >>
          >>
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          >>
          >
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        • 128thpa@comcast.net
          Gerry wrote: Neither of them Gerry! Paula [Non-text portions of
          Message 4 of 25 , Aug 10, 2005
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            Gerry wrote: <<Let me know which address works for you and I will enter it in my address
            book as well.>>
            Neither of them Gerry!
            Paula

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Stephen Recker
            Somewhere I got the impression that McClellan dissolved the Wing structure of the AOP after the Battle of South Mountain. This would explain how Hooker and
            Message 5 of 25 , Aug 15, 2005
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              Somewhere I got the impression that McClellan dissolved the Wing
              structure of the AOP after the Battle of South Mountain. This would
              explain how Hooker and Burnside ended up on opposite ends of the field.

              If this was so, why did McClellan tell Sumner, as Wing Commander, to
              send in the XII Corps?

              Any thoughts? Thanks.

              Stephen Recker
            • Stephen Recker
              What is considered the best overview of casualties as broken down by geographical area on the Antietam Battlefield? The CWTI special issue has that great
              Message 6 of 25 , Aug 15, 2005
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                What is considered the best overview of casualties as broken down by
                geographical area on the Antietam Battlefield? The CWTI special issue
                has that great casualty chart, based on Carman, but it is broken down
                by command. Thanks.

                Stephen Recker
              • Harry Smeltzer
                I don t think the Wing structure was dissolved. In fact, Burnside was still a wing commander - Hooker was detached. This left Burnside with only one corps in
                Message 7 of 25 , Aug 15, 2005
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                  I don't think the Wing structure was dissolved. In fact, Burnside was still
                  a wing commander - Hooker was detached. This left Burnside with only one
                  corps in his wing, 9th Corps. Cox was in direct command of 9th Corps.
                  Burnside really served no useful purpose in this case, though orders from
                  army command were still filtered through his staff to Cox. This situation
                  has been described as contributing to the troubles at the Lower Bridge.



                  Harry



                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com] On
                  Behalf Of Stephen Recker
                  Sent: Monday, August 15, 2005 4:03 PM
                  To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: [TalkAntietam] Wings



                  Somewhere I got the impression that McClellan dissolved the Wing
                  structure of the AOP after the Battle of South Mountain. This would
                  explain how Hooker and Burnside ended up on opposite ends of the field.

                  If this was so, why did McClellan tell Sumner, as Wing Commander, to
                  send in the XII Corps?

                  Any thoughts? Thanks.

                  Stephen Recker









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                • G E Mayers
                  Dear Stephen, Could it possibly be due to the fact that Mansfield had no combat experience prior to being given command of the 12th Corps? Very respectfully,
                  Message 8 of 25 , Aug 15, 2005
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                    Dear Stephen,

                    Could it possibly be due to the fact that Mansfield had "no" combat
                    experience prior to being given command of the 12th Corps?

                    Very respectfully,
                    G E "Gerry" Mayers

                    "As an American citizen I prize the Union very highly
                    and know of no personal sacrifice that I would not make
                    to preserve it, save that of honour."
                    --Robt. E. Lee, Letter to Rooney Lee, 3 December 1860

                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: "Stephen Recker" <recker@...>
                    To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                    Sent: Monday, August 15, 2005 5:02 PM
                    Subject: [TalkAntietam] Wings


                    > Somewhere I got the impression that McClellan dissolved the Wing
                    > structure of the AOP after the Battle of South Mountain. This would
                    > explain how Hooker and Burnside ended up on opposite ends of the field.
                    >
                    > If this was so, why did McClellan tell Sumner, as Wing Commander, to
                    > send in the XII Corps?
                    >
                    > Any thoughts? Thanks.
                    >
                    > Stephen Recker
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
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                  • G E Mayers
                    Dear Stephen, I am not sure, but John Nelson has an excellent CD detailing the Federal casualties and a listing of all the Field Hospitals. Would this be
                    Message 9 of 25 , Aug 15, 2005
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                      Dear Stephen,

                      I am not sure, but John Nelson has an excellent CD detailing the Federal
                      casualties and a listing of all the Field Hospitals. Would this be helpful?

                      Very respectfully,
                      G E "Gerry" Mayers

                      "As an American citizen I prize the Union very highly
                      and know of no personal sacrifice that I would not make
                      to preserve it, save that of honour."
                      --Robt. E. Lee, Letter to Rooney Lee, 3 December 1860

                      ----- Original Message -----
                      From: "Stephen Recker" <recker@...>
                      To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                      Sent: Monday, August 15, 2005 5:06 PM
                      Subject: [TalkAntietam] Body Count


                      > What is considered the best overview of casualties as broken down by
                      > geographical area on the Antietam Battlefield? The CWTI special issue
                      > has that great casualty chart, based on Carman, but it is broken down
                      > by command. Thanks.
                      >
                      > Stephen Recker
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
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                    • Thomas Clemens
                      Steve, The wings order was made offiical on Sept. 14, by Special Order. See p. 290, OR, Vol. 19 pt. 2. It was suspended on Sept. 15, see p. 297, op. cit.
                      Message 10 of 25 , Aug 16, 2005
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                        Steve,
                        The "wings" order was made offiical on Sept. 14, by Special Order. See
                        p. 290, OR, Vol. 19 pt. 2. It was suspended on Sept. 15, see p. 297,
                        op. cit.
                        The best summary of casualtires by location that I have seen is one made
                        up by the interp staff and I carry in my notebook. I'll be happy to
                        make a copy for you, or talk to Keith.
                        Tom

                        Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
                        Professor of History
                        Hagerstown Community College


                        >>> recker@... 08/15/05 5:02 PM >>>
                      • Harry Smeltzer
                        Tom, Then why was Burnside still acting as wing commander, and Cox as 9th Corps commander? Harry ... From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                        Message 11 of 25 , Aug 16, 2005
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                          Tom,



                          Then why was Burnside still acting as wing commander, and Cox as 9th Corps
                          commander?



                          Harry



                          -----Original Message-----
                          From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com] On
                          Behalf Of Thomas Clemens
                          Sent: Tuesday, August 16, 2005 7:51 AM
                          To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Wings



                          Steve,
                          The "wings" order was made offiical on Sept. 14, by Special Order. See
                          p. 290, OR, Vol. 19 pt. 2. It was suspended on Sept. 15, see p. 297,
                          op. cit.
                          The best summary of casualtires by location that I have seen is one made
                          up by the interp staff and I carry in my notebook. I'll be happy to
                          make a copy for you, or talk to Keith.
                          Tom

                          Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
                          Professor of History
                          Hagerstown Community College


                          >>> recker@... 08/15/05 5:02 PM >>>









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                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • Stephen Recker
                          It is interesting that taking one of two corps out of a wing could be considered a detachment. I smell intrigue. I ve heard the the Burnside, in his
                          Message 12 of 25 , Aug 16, 2005
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                            It is interesting that taking one of two corps out of a wing could be
                            considered a detachment. I smell intrigue.

                            I've heard the the Burnside, in his supernumary (sp?) position was
                            either in his tent most of the morning or standing next to Cox
                            intimidating him. Which was it? Thanks.

                            Stephen

                            On Monday, August 15, 2005, at 05:14 PM, Harry Smeltzer wrote:

                            > I don't think the Wing structure was dissolved. In fact, Burnside was
                            > still
                            > a wing commander - Hooker was detached. This left Burnside with only
                            > one
                            > corps in his wing, 9th Corps. Cox was in direct command of 9th Corps.
                            > Burnside really served no useful purpose in this case, though orders
                            > from
                            > army command were still filtered through his staff to Cox. This
                            > situation
                            > has been described as contributing to the troubles at the Lower Bridge.
                            >
                          • Stephen Recker
                            Interesting thought. Stephen
                            Message 13 of 25 , Aug 16, 2005
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                              Interesting thought.

                              Stephen

                              On Monday, August 15, 2005, at 10:52 PM, G E Mayers wrote:

                              > Could it possibly be due to the fact that Mansfield had "no" combat
                              > experience prior to being given command of the 12th Corps?
                            • Stephen Recker
                              Gerry, Thanks for this recommendation. I think they have this at the Antietam bookstore. I ll check it out. Stephen
                              Message 14 of 25 , Aug 16, 2005
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                                Gerry,

                                Thanks for this recommendation. I think they have this at the Antietam
                                bookstore. I'll check it out.

                                Stephen

                                On Monday, August 15, 2005, at 10:53 PM, G E Mayers wrote:

                                > Dear Stephen,
                                >
                                > I am not sure, but John Nelson has an excellent CD detailing the
                                > Federal
                                > casualties and a listing of all the Field Hospitals. Would this be
                                > helpful?
                                >
                                > Very respectfully,
                                > G E "Gerry" Mayers
                              • Stephen Recker
                                Tom, Thanks for pointing me to this. I have a stack of park brochures and found it in there. It is really helpful. Actually I never really looked through this
                                Message 15 of 25 , Aug 16, 2005
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                                  Tom,

                                  Thanks for pointing me to this. I have a stack of park brochures and
                                  found it in there. It is really helpful.

                                  Actually I never really looked through this stack of brochures, but
                                  there is some really great stuff in hear. The Antietam bookstore sells
                                  the whole bunch for about $1. What a great deal.

                                  Stephen



                                  On Tuesday, August 16, 2005, at 08:51 AM, Thomas Clemens wrote:

                                  > The best summary of casualtires by location that I have seen is one
                                  > made
                                  > up by the interp staff and I carry in my notebook. I'll be happy to
                                  > make a copy for you, or talk to Keith.
                                  > Tom
                                • Stephen Recker
                                  Excellent. I ll look these up. Thanks. There is a sad irony in the second note - Brig. Gen. J. K. F. Mansfield is TEMPORARILY assigned to the command of
                                  Message 16 of 25 , Aug 16, 2005
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                                    Excellent. I'll look these up. Thanks.

                                    There is a sad irony in the second note - "Brig. Gen. J. K. F.
                                    Mansfield is TEMPORARILY assigned to the command of Bank's (12) corps."

                                    Stephen

                                    On Tuesday, August 16, 2005, at 08:51 AM, Thomas Clemens wrote:

                                    > The "wings" order was made offiical on Sept. 14, by Special Order. See
                                    > p. 290, OR, Vol. 19 pt. 2. It was suspended on Sept. 15, see p. 297,
                                    > op. cit.
                                  • Harry Smeltzer
                                    Is that the set that comes in a zip-lock baggie? I think I have that as well. Harry ... From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                                    Message 17 of 25 , Aug 16, 2005
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                                      Is that the set that comes in a zip-lock baggie? I think I have that as
                                      well.



                                      Harry



                                      -----Original Message-----
                                      From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com] On
                                      Behalf Of Stephen Recker
                                      Sent: Tuesday, August 16, 2005 8:33 AM
                                      To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                                      Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Wings



                                      Tom,

                                      Thanks for pointing me to this. I have a stack of park brochures and
                                      found it in there. It is really helpful.

                                      Actually I never really looked through this stack of brochures, but
                                      there is some really great stuff in hear. The Antietam bookstore sells
                                      the whole bunch for about $1. What a great deal.

                                      Stephen



                                      On Tuesday, August 16, 2005, at 08:51 AM, Thomas Clemens wrote:

                                      > The best summary of casualtires by location that I have seen is one
                                      > made
                                      > up by the interp staff and I carry in my notebook. I'll be happy to
                                      > make a copy for you, or talk to Keith.
                                      > Tom









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                                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    • Stephen Recker
                                      I am trying to get a handle on the number of casualties in the Morning Phase of the battle of Antietam. In the NPS pamphlet called Casualties of Battle it
                                      Message 18 of 25 , Aug 24, 2005
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                                        I am trying to get a handle on the number of casualties in the Morning
                                        Phase of the battle of Antietam. In the NPS pamphlet called "Casualties
                                        of Battle" it states that there were 13,860 casualties in the morning
                                        phase. In the Cornfield Trail pamphlet it states that 'as many as 8,000
                                        men were killed or wounded from dawn until 9:00 am'.

                                        I have seen this range stated in a number of places. Is there a
                                        distinction that I am missing between the two numbers? Thanks.

                                        Stephen Recker
                                      • Thomas Clemens
                                        It sounds until 9:00 does not include the West Woods action. That would account for at least some of the disparity. I will look at Carman s chart tonight
                                        Message 19 of 25 , Aug 24, 2005
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                                          It sounds "until 9:00" does not include the West Woods action. That
                                          would account for at least some of the disparity. I will look at
                                          Carman's chart tonight and get back to you.
                                          Tom Clemens

                                          >>> recker@... 8/24/2005 11:00:05 AM >>>

                                          I am trying to get a handle on the number of casualties in the Morning

                                          Phase of the battle of Antietam. In the NPS pamphlet called "Casualties

                                          of Battle" it states that there were 13,860 casualties in the morning
                                          phase. In the Cornfield Trail pamphlet it states that 'as many as 8,000

                                          men were killed or wounded from dawn until 9:00 am'.

                                          I have seen this range stated in a number of places. Is there a
                                          distinction that I am missing between the two numbers? Thanks.

                                          Stephen Recker








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                                        • Stephen Recker
                                          Thanks, Tom. And the lower number doesn t seem to include captures, although that number is less than one thousand. Stephen Recker
                                          Message 20 of 25 , Aug 25, 2005
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                                            Thanks, Tom. And the lower number doesn't seem to include captures,
                                            although that number is less than one thousand.

                                            Stephen Recker

                                            On Wednesday, August 24, 2005, at 11:33 AM, Thomas Clemens wrote:

                                            >
                                            > It sounds "until 9:00" does not include the West Woods action. That
                                            > would account for at least some of the disparity. I will look at
                                            > Carman's chart tonight and get back to you.
                                            > Tom Clemens
                                          • rotbaron@aol.com
                                            Stephen, Antietam casualties are broken out on the NPS webpage at: http://www.nps.gov/anti/casualty.htm Tom Shay - Cresssona, PA [Non-text portions of this
                                            Message 21 of 25 , Aug 25, 2005
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                                              Stephen,

                                              Antietam casualties are broken out on the NPS webpage at:
                                              http://www.nps.gov/anti/casualty.htm

                                              Tom Shay - Cresssona, PA



                                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                            • Stephen Recker
                                              Thanks. These statistics make Tom Clemens case that the pamphlet I was looking at did not include the West Woods. Awesome. Thanks to both Toms. Stephen
                                              Message 22 of 25 , Aug 25, 2005
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                                                Thanks. These statistics make Tom Clemens' case that the pamphlet I was
                                                looking at did not include the West Woods. Awesome. Thanks to both Toms.

                                                Stephen

                                                On Thursday, August 25, 2005, at 11:59 AM, rotbaron@... wrote:

                                                >
                                                > Stephen,
                                                >
                                                > Antietam casualties are broken out on the NPS webpage at:
                                                > http://www.nps.gov/anti/casualty.htm
                                                >
                                                > Tom Shay - Cresssona, PA
                                              • dickeyr46
                                                Stephen, just as reinforcement to the two Toms conclusions, Dr. Harsh in Taken at the Flood also addresses casualties up to 9 am and then the total for the
                                                Message 23 of 25 , Aug 25, 2005
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                                                  Stephen, just as reinforcement to the two Toms' conclusions, Dr. Harsh
                                                  in "Taken at the Flood" also addresses casualties up to 9 am and then
                                                  the total for the "Morning Phase." Addressing up to 9 am (the
                                                  Cornfield and East Woods), on p. 376, Dr. Harsh writes, "In all,
                                                  during the three hours, 27,000 men had struggled over the same 160
                                                  acres and 8,700 (32.2 percent) had fallen." I believe I can accounted
                                                  for 604 missing from units engaged up to this time. If you subtract
                                                  the missing, that comes very close to the "Cornfield Trail" pamphlet
                                                  statement of "as many as 8,000 men were killed or wounded."

                                                  Dr. Harsh concluded on p. 394 that 4,481 caualties occured during the
                                                  fighting in the West Woods and around the Dunker Church. This includes
                                                  casualties suffered by Col. Irwin's brigade in the vicinity of the
                                                  Dunker Church, less those of the 7th Maine. On p. 395, he gives 13,179
                                                  for the total "Morning Phase". Again, very close to the NPS morning
                                                  phase casualty number.

                                                  Dr. Harsh references Section K of Chapter 9 of "Sounding the Shallows"
                                                  to address allocating casualties for units when divisions and even
                                                  regiments could be split between phases.

                                                  Ron Dickey

                                                  --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, Stephen Recker <recker@v...> wrote:
                                                  > Thanks. These statistics make Tom Clemens' case that the pamphlet I was
                                                  > looking at did not include the West Woods. Awesome. Thanks to both Toms.
                                                  >
                                                  > Stephen
                                                • Stephen Recker
                                                  Great stuff. Thanks. Stephen
                                                  Message 24 of 25 , Aug 25, 2005
                                                  • 0 Attachment
                                                    Great stuff. Thanks.

                                                    Stephen

                                                    On Thursday, August 25, 2005, at 05:15 PM, dickeyr46 wrote:

                                                    > Stephen, just as reinforcement to the two Toms' conclusions, Dr. Harsh
                                                    > in "Taken at the Flood" also addresses casualties up to 9 am and then
                                                    > the total for the "Morning Phase." Addressing up to 9 am (the
                                                    > Cornfield and East Woods), on p. 376, Dr. Harsh writes, "In all,
                                                    > during the three hours, 27,000 men had struggled over the same 160
                                                    > acres and 8,700 (32.2 percent) had fallen." I believe I can accounted
                                                    > for 604 missing from units engaged up to this time. If you subtract
                                                    > the missing, that comes very close to the "Cornfield Trail" pamphlet
                                                    > statement of "as many as 8,000 men were killed or wounded."
                                                    >
                                                    > Dr. Harsh concluded on p. 394 that 4,481 caualties occured during the
                                                    > fighting in the West Woods and around the Dunker Church. This includes
                                                    > casualties suffered by Col. Irwin's brigade in the vicinity of the
                                                    > Dunker Church, less those of the 7th Maine. On p. 395, he gives 13,179
                                                    > for the total "Morning Phase". Again, very close to the NPS morning
                                                    > phase casualty number.
                                                    >
                                                    > Dr. Harsh references Section K of Chapter 9 of "Sounding the Shallows"
                                                    > to address allocating casualties for units when divisions and even
                                                    > regiments could be split between phases.
                                                    >
                                                    > Ron Dickey
                                                    >
                                                    > --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, Stephen Recker <recker@v...>
                                                    > wrote:
                                                    >> Thanks. These statistics make Tom Clemens' case that the pamphlet I
                                                    >> was
                                                    >> looking at did not include the West Woods. Awesome. Thanks to both
                                                    >> Toms.
                                                    >>
                                                    >> Stephen
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