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Dr Hash's talk/Nicodemus heights

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  • TR Livesey
    I sure am happy to be part of this new group - thanks for inviting me. One thing that stood out about Dr Harsh s talk was that Nicodemus Heights are out of
    Message 1 of 9 , Apr 25, 2001
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      I sure am happy to be part of this new group - thanks
      for inviting me.

      One thing that stood out about Dr Harsh's talk was that
      Nicodemus Heights are out of range (or out of sight)
      of the Pry House.

      I decided to test this by constructing a profile map
      between the highest point on Nicodemus Heights and
      the highest point near the Pry House (which is actually
      kind of behind the house).

      Indeed, the high ground in the Cornfield (where the
      Sharpsburg Ridge, or what I call the Battlefield Divide)
      runs through it. See for yourself:

      http://www.enteract.com/~westwood/nic_profile.html

      Regards,

      TR Livesey
      westwood@...
    • Tom Clemens
      Cool. Thanks for confirming what I d always thought.
      Message 2 of 9 , Apr 25, 2001
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        Cool. Thanks for confirming what I'd always thought.

        TR Livesey wrote:

        > I sure am happy to be part of this new group - thanks
        > for inviting me.
        >
        > One thing that stood out about Dr Harsh's talk was that
        > Nicodemus Heights are out of range (or out of sight)
        > of the Pry House.
        >
        > I decided to test this by constructing a profile map
        > between the highest point on Nicodemus Heights and
        > the highest point near the Pry House (which is actually
        > kind of behind the house).
        >
        > Indeed, the high ground in the Cornfield (where the
        > Sharpsburg Ridge, or what I call the Battlefield Divide)
        > runs through it. See for yourself:
        >
        > http://www.enteract.com/~westwood/nic_profile.html
        >
        > Regards,
        >
        > TR Livesey
        > westwood@...
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
      • Brian Downey
        ... This sounds interesting, but, as I missed Dr Harsh, I don t know the reference. Does this have to do with whether McClellan could see the Confed positions
        Message 3 of 9 , Apr 26, 2001
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          --- In TalkAntietam@y..., TR Livesey <westwood@e...> wrote:
          ...
          > One thing that stood out about Dr Harsh's talk was that
          > Nicodemus Heights are out of range (or out of sight)
          > of the Pry House.
          >
          This sounds interesting, but, as I missed Dr Harsh, I don't know the
          reference. Does this have to do with whether McClellan could see the
          Confed positions on Nicodemus from his HQ?

          This might also answer the unasked question about why Confederate
          artillerists didn't take a shot at the Pry house directly...

          Brian
        • Mark A. Pflum
          ... The answer to this is actually quite simple! The Confederates did not have any guns heavy enough to have range of the Pry House area. Especially in their
          Message 4 of 9 , Apr 26, 2001
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            --- In TalkAntietam@y..., "Brian Downey" <brdowney@m...> wrote:
            > This might also answer the unasked question about why Confederate
            > artillerists didn't take a shot at the Pry house directly...
            >
            > Brian

            The answer to this is actually quite simple! The Confederates did
            not have any guns heavy enough to have range of the Pry House area.
            Especially in their horse artillery, which I believe was placed upon
            that hill. I'd even venture to say that the National's 20Pdr. guns
            over at the Pry House area would have been sorely taxed to send their
            iron over to the heights, for that matter.

            What is the actual distance between the two points and the
            differences in their elevations? They would be the telling facts if
            the visibility factor allowed them to see one another.

            Mark A. Pflum
            Artillery is the King of Battles!
          • TR Livesey
            Yes, exactly. Dr Hash was questioning the value of Nicodemus Heights. The issue was that had Hooker or whoever tried to take the hill, they would have been
            Message 5 of 9 , Apr 26, 2001
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              Yes, exactly. Dr Hash was questioning the value of Nicodemus
              Heights. The issue was that had Hooker or whoever tried to
              take the hill, they would have been unsupported by artillery
              on the east side of the creek, among other difficulties.

              Regards,
              TR Livesey
              westwood@...

              Brian Downey wrote:
              >
              > --- In TalkAntietam@y..., TR Livesey <westwood@e...> wrote:
              > ...
              > > One thing that stood out about Dr Harsh's talk was that
              > > Nicodemus Heights are out of range (or out of sight)
              > > of the Pry House.
              > >
              > This sounds interesting, but, as I missed Dr Harsh, I don't know the
              > reference. Does this have to do with whether McClellan could see the
              > Confed positions on Nicodemus from his HQ?
              >
              > This might also answer the unasked question about why Confederate
              > artillerists didn't take a shot at the Pry house directly...
              >
              > Brian
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
            • TR Livesey
              By my reckoning, it is about 3,930 meters across the line shown, and the change in elevation is about 5 feet (Nic H: 505 ft, Pry back yard: 510 ft). Regards,
              Message 6 of 9 , Apr 26, 2001
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                By my reckoning, it is about 3,930 meters across the line
                shown, and the change in elevation is about 5 feet (Nic H: 505 ft,
                Pry back yard: 510 ft).

                Regards,
                TR Livesey
                westwood@...

                "Mark A. Pflum" wrote:
                >
                > What is the actual distance between the two points and the
                > differences in their elevations? They would be the telling facts if
                > the visibility factor allowed them to see one another.
                >
                > Mark A. Pflum
                > Artillery is the King of Battles!
              • Tom Clemens
                Right Mark, most of the rebel 20 pdrs. were still in Harpers Ferry. There was a duel with guns across the creek on the 16th, but the distance to the Pry House
                Message 7 of 9 , Apr 26, 2001
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                  Right Mark, most of the rebel 20 pdrs. were still in Harpers Ferry. There was a duel with guns across the creek on the 16th, but the
                  distance to the Pry House was beyond the range of most of the C.S. guns, and do not forget that McClellan did not establish his HQ there
                  until late in theafternoon of the 16th. Certainly no gun could shoot from Nicodemus to Pry House, too far for any field gun, except
                  Whitworths. Got one of those?


                  "Mark A. Pflum" wrote:

                  > --- In TalkAntietam@y..., "Brian Downey" <brdowney@m...> wrote:
                  > > This might also answer the unasked question about why Confederate
                  > > artillerists didn't take a shot at the Pry house directly...
                  > >
                  > > Brian
                  >
                  > The answer to this is actually quite simple! The Confederates did
                  > not have any guns heavy enough to have range of the Pry House area.
                  > Especially in their horse artillery, which I believe was placed upon
                  > that hill. I'd even venture to say that the National's 20Pdr. guns
                  > over at the Pry House area would have been sorely taxed to send their
                  > iron over to the heights, for that matter.
                  >
                  > What is the actual distance between the two points and the
                  > differences in their elevations? They would be the telling facts if
                  > the visibility factor allowed them to see one another.
                  >
                  > Mark A. Pflum
                  > Artillery is the King of Battles!
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                • Brian Downey
                  A great discussion about range from Nicodemus to the Pry House, but I apologise for asking the way I did ... must confess it really wasn t serious inquiry. I
                  Message 8 of 9 , Apr 27, 2001
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                    A great discussion about range from Nicodemus to the Pry House, but I
                    apologise for asking the way I did ... must confess it really wasn't
                    serious inquiry. I should have used a smiley face or something :)

                    Brian
                  • Mark A. Pflum
                    ... I ... wasn t ... Sir, NEVER trifle with artillery questions when you have guys like Tom and myself present! It s not an interest with some people, it s an
                    Message 9 of 9 , Apr 27, 2001
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                      --- In TalkAntietam@y..., "Brian Downey" <brdowney@m...> wrote:
                      > A great discussion about range from Nicodemus to the Pry House, but
                      I
                      > apologise for asking the way I did ... must confess it really
                      wasn't
                      > serious inquiry. I should have used a smiley face or something :)
                      >
                      > Brian


                      Sir,

                      NEVER trifle with artillery questions when you have guys like Tom and
                      myself present! It's not an interest with some people, it's an
                      obsession! ;^)

                      Mark A. Pflum
                      (incurable redleg)
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