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RE: [TalkAntietam] McClellan has the 'fasts'

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  • Jeff Beckner (PWC Magazine)
    It also should indicate to you that your time on this topic (McClellan) is misspent, don t you think? I would be encouraged by said reviews if a knowledgeable
    Message 1 of 90 , Jul 11 2:48 PM
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      It also should indicate to you that your time on this topic (McClellan)
      is
      misspent, don't you think?


      I would be encouraged by said reviews if a knowledgeable reader -- whom
      I presume Steven Recker to be and know Jim to be -- hadn't said Rafuse
      "is taking positions contrary to all that's known about McClellan," or
      whatever his exact wording was. Because, you see, I just don't see any
      possible way (unless you're pursing a particular agenda) you can take a
      look at McClellan and suddenly find that ALL the conventional wisdom is
      wrong. Undoubtedly, there are some edges that probably need some
      softening -- for example, maybe he WAS speedier in MD than usually given
      credit for -- but a LOT of things that needed rethinking with new
      conclusions?

      There's just no way. It's not there. The evidence is too conclusive on
      the other side.

      Someone, 20 years from now, will put out a book "re-examining" the OJ
      trial, and will hint, without being dumb enough to come out and say it,
      that maybe, somehow, if you look at it this way and that, he was
      actually innocent after all. And a book would NEED to say that, because
      saying the opposite (aka, the truth) means there's no book worth
      publishing. And I fear Rafuse falls into the same ocean, if not quite
      the same boat, as this example.



      Harry





      -----Original Message-----
      From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com]
      On
      Behalf Of Jeff Beckner (PWC Magazine)
      Sent: Monday, July 11, 2005 4:35 PM
      To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: RE: [TalkAntietam] McClellan has the 'fasts'



      I'm commenting on reviews of something I've not yet read; reviews I
      believe to be likely accurate.

      Sue me.

      I had hoped the book would be an even-handed treatment. Praise him when
      earned and blame him when culpable. Doesn't seem to have worked out
      quite that way....because if it had, there would have been no book; that
      book already having been written 200 times over.

      But let's say, for the sake of obtuse discussion, that Mac DID move
      faster in MD than is usually supposed.

      BFD. He's still a general who spent most of his time being afraid, and
      who, as a result, missed some lovely opportunities to take a year or two
      or three off the war.

      How do we get around that?

      -----Original Message-----
      From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com]
      On Behalf Of Harry Smeltzer
      Sent: Monday, July 11, 2005 4:25 PM
      To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: RE: [TalkAntietam] McClellan has the 'fasts'

      As you are being typically obtuse, and commenting on something you've
      not
      yet read, and again requesting evidence to dispute your facts (which
      when
      presented will be predictably deflected by a patently wry rhetorical
      comment), I'm doing the best I can ;-)



      I'm glad you're proud. Your affirmation means the world to me. I do
      still
      stand in awe of your interest in discussing a topic about which many
      years
      ago you had already seen and read enough to be 100% confident that what
      you
      already know is true.



      Why do you do it?



      Harry



      -----Original Message-----
      From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com]
      On
      Behalf Of Jeff Beckner (PWC Magazine)
      Sent: Monday, July 11, 2005 4:16 PM
      To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: RE: [TalkAntietam] McClellan has the 'fasts'



      Doing yeoman work of being Mac's champion today, Harry. We're all proud
      of you.

      -----Original Message-----
      From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com]
      On Behalf Of Harry Smeltzer
      Sent: Monday, July 11, 2005 3:31 PM
      To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: RE: [TalkAntietam] McClellan has the 'fasts'

      In your mind, I'm sure you will.



      Harry



      -----Original Message-----
      From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com]
      On
      Behalf Of Jeff Beckner (PWC Magazine)
      Sent: Monday, July 11, 2005 10:15 AM
      To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: RE: [TalkAntietam] McClellan has the 'fasts'



      Post an excerpt. I'll tear it apart.

      _____



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    • Jeff Beckner (PWC Magazine)
      OK. Thanks. ... From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Thomas Clemens Sent: Tuesday, July 12, 2005 2:35 PM To:
      Message 90 of 90 , Jul 12 12:37 PM
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        OK. Thanks.

        -----Original Message-----
        From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com]
        On Behalf Of Thomas Clemens
        Sent: Tuesday, July 12, 2005 2:35 PM
        To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: RE: [TalkAntietam] McClellan has the 'fasts'

        I read the book too, and thought the mention of the K-N Act was
        tangental to the theme. Rafuse was discussing McClellan's shift from a
        tradtional Whig to a Douglas Democrat, and IIRC, Jim wanted a discussion
        of the inconsistency of that shift due to Douglas' sponsoring of the K-N
        Act. Rafuse does talk about it later, in the context of Lincoln, but it
        cannot be fairly said that Rafuse ignores or leaves it out. It just was
        not as emphasized as Jim thought it should be. Fair criticism, but not
        an indictment of the author.

        Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
        Professor of History
        Hagerstown Community College


        >>> jbeckner@... 07/12/05 10:53 AM >>>
        OK....are they dealt with in any detail? One of Jim's criticisms (he
        READ the book, you know) was that Rafuse didn't raise some questions on
        some topics that probably should have been raised.




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