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Re: [TalkAntietam] Re: New Hampshire officials want battlefield monument

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  • Thomas Clemens
    Brian, Exactly, he cannot see the forest for the trees. Tom Thomas G. Clemens D.A. Professor of History Hagerstown Community College
    Message 1 of 23 , Jun 28, 2005
      Brian,
      Exactly, he cannot see the forest for the trees.
      Tom
      Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
      Professor of History
      Hagerstown Community College


      >>> bdowney@... 06/28/05 12:47 PM >>>
    • Thomas Clemens
      I can only tell you that John Howard has a file folder of groups wanting monuments, at least 15 at present, who now will have a precedent. I understand your
      Message 2 of 23 , Jun 28, 2005
        I can only tell you that John Howard has a file folder of groups wanting
        monuments, at least 15 at present, who now will have a precedent. I
        understand your point, but do not agree with it. How many monuments are
        at Normandy? Or is it important tot see what those brave soldiers
        faced? Let the restored/preserved be the monument!
        Tom Clemens

        Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
        Professor of History
        Hagerstown Community College


        >>> civilwar1@... 06/28/05 6:54 PM >>>
      • Brian Morris
        The reason there is a moratorium to begin with was to put a stop to political monuments being placed on these battlefields. Specifically it was in response to
        Message 3 of 23 , Jun 28, 2005
          The reason there is a moratorium to begin with was to put a stop to
          political monuments being placed on these battlefields. Specifically it was
          in response to the North Carolina monument and 11 Mississippi monuments near
          the Angle at Gettysburg that were placed in the wrong place and in direct
          violation of the rules created for monument placement at Gettysburg by the
          veterans who fought there. In the case of the North Carolina monument, it
          also tells a story that is a complete fiction. They are monuments to modern
          day politics more than anything connected to the battle, placed by
          politicians who used the campaigns to place them there for political gain.

          As for not opening a flood of monuments, there are as far as I know 15 new
          monuments, mostly from southern groups, currently proposed for Antietam
          alone if this goes through. I am sure that there are others that have not
          gone public. If that isn't a flood, I don't know what is. You know once we
          start seeing groups getting a monument put up for their favorite regiment at
          Antietam, every reenactment group is going to want one for their regiment
          and of course they'll get their congressman to support it because it's good
          for grabbing votes.

          Brian


          > I don't reply that much but as an avid civil war buff I like to listen to
          what others say. I think being against the monuments may be an over
          reation. I'm not to sure it will open any flood walls and have monuments
          pop up all over the place. He has one point and that is most people that
          visit a battle field look at the monuments for reference, information and a
          better understanding. These are the same people that donate lots of money
          for battlefield preservation. Without their support alot of historic turf
          would be now paved. I know I will get a lot of negative feedback but each
          has their opinion so let it fly.
          > ----- Original Message -----
          > From: Brian Downey
          > To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
          > Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2005 12:47 PM
          > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: New Hampshire officials want battlefield
          monument
          >
          >
          > > "I don't look at the grass. I don't look at the trees," Letourneau
          > > said about visiting battlefields. "I look at the monuments."
          >
          > This is just sad. In so many ways.
          >
          > [opinion, fwiw]
          > What's seems likely is that he and the other NH politicians are not
          > really thinking of the Boys of 1862 - just the voters of today. Their
          > jobs, I suppose ...
          >
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        • Stephen Recker
          Last night I was reading Taken at the Flood and came across a sentence that has me very confused. This is from p. 226. He stopped short of Vestal Gap in the
          Message 4 of 23 , Jun 30, 2005
            Last night I was reading "Taken at the Flood" and came across a
            sentence that has me very confused. This is from p. 226.

            'He stopped short of Vestal Gap in the Blue Ridge (Elk Ridge in
            Maryland) and the Short Hills (South Mountain in Maryland).'

            Now, I have always heard that South Mountain was the northern extension
            of the Blue Ridge. In McLaw's report, OR19, p852, he refers to Elk
            Ridge by name and refers to South Mountain as the Blue Ridge. Looking
            at a map, though, it looks like I agree with Joseph Harsh.

            Comments? Thanks.

            Stephen Recker
          • G E Mayers
            Dear Stephen, Both could be correct. Very respectfully, G E Gerry Mayers Confederate Signal Corps, Longstreet s Corps ... From: Stephen Recker
            Message 5 of 23 , Jun 30, 2005
              Dear Stephen,

              Both could be correct.

              Very respectfully,
              G E "Gerry" Mayers
              Confederate Signal Corps,
              Longstreet's Corps



              ----- Original Message -----
              From: "Stephen Recker" <recker@...>
              To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2005 8:41 AM
              Subject: [TalkAntietam] Blue Ridge Mountains...or not


              > Last night I was reading "Taken at the Flood" and came across a
              > sentence that has me very confused. This is from p. 226.
              >
              > 'He stopped short of Vestal Gap in the Blue Ridge (Elk Ridge in
              > Maryland) and the Short Hills (South Mountain in Maryland).'
              >
              > Now, I have always heard that South Mountain was the northern extension
              > of the Blue Ridge. In McLaw's report, OR19, p852, he refers to Elk
              > Ridge by name and refers to South Mountain as the Blue Ridge. Looking
              > at a map, though, it looks like I agree with Joseph Harsh.
              >
              > Comments? Thanks.
              >
              > Stephen Recker
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
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            • Stephen Recker
              Dear Gerry, i was afraid you would say something like that! Stephen
              Message 6 of 23 , Jun 30, 2005
                Dear Gerry,

                i was afraid you would say something like that!

                Stephen

                On Thursday, June 30, 2005, at 08:55 AM, G E Mayers wrote:

                > Dear Stephen,
                >
                > Both could be correct.
                >
                > Very respectfully,
                > G E "Gerry" Mayers
                > Confederate Signal Corps,
                > Longstreet's Corps
              • G E Mayers
                Stephen, Actually CW terminology was not as precise as we use today. However, South Mountain in MD is indeed considered part of the Blue Ridge, with Elk Ridge
                Message 7 of 23 , Jun 30, 2005
                  Stephen,

                  Actually CW terminology was not as precise as we use today. However, South
                  Mountain in MD is indeed considered part of the Blue Ridge, with Elk Ridge
                  more of an extension of the Blue Ridge.

                  Tom Clemens might be able to help you sort this out better, as he lives
                  nearby.

                  Very respectfully,
                  G E "Gerry" Mayers
                  Confederate Signal Corps,
                  Longstreet's Corps



                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: "Stephen Recker" <recker@...>
                  To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                  Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2005 8:59 AM
                  Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Blue Ridge Mountains...or not


                  > Dear Gerry,
                  >
                  > i was afraid you would say something like that!
                  >
                  > Stephen
                  >
                  > On Thursday, June 30, 2005, at 08:55 AM, G E Mayers wrote:
                  >
                  >> Dear Stephen,
                  >>
                  >> Both could be correct.
                  >>
                  >> Very respectfully,
                  >> G E "Gerry" Mayers
                  >> Confederate Signal Corps,
                  >> Longstreet's Corps
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
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                • Thomas Clemens
                  I believe the aqccount by Joe is correct. If you go to Weverton, the base of South Mountain and look acrossthe river there is only Short Hill. OTOH, if you
                  Message 8 of 23 , Jun 30, 2005
                    I believe the aqccount by Joe is correct. If you go to Weverton, the
                    base of South Mountain and look acrossthe river there is only Short
                    Hill. OTOH, if you go to Sandy Hook and look across you see Loudoun
                    Hts. which extends southward as the Blue Ridge. I think this is correct
                    but am away from maps and home right now.


                    Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
                    Professor of History
                    Hagerstown Community College


                    >>> recker@... 06/30/05 8:41 AM >>>
                  • Stephen Recker
                    What would be the best source for an overview of the correspondence between Lincoln and McClellan during the Maryland Campaign? Thanks. Stephen Recker
                    Message 9 of 23 , Jul 8, 2005
                      What would be the best source for an overview of the correspondence
                      between Lincoln and McClellan during the Maryland Campaign? Thanks.

                      Stephen Recker
                    • Harry Smeltzer
                      The best source would be the McClellan papers on microfilm. Apparently, the papers themselves have become hopelessly disordered. The selected (keep in mind, it
                      Message 10 of 23 , Jul 8, 2005
                        The best source would be the McClellan papers on microfilm.



                        Apparently, the papers themselves have become hopelessly disordered.



                        The selected (keep in mind, it is selected) correspondence in "The Civil War
                        Paper of George B.McClellan" are not all copied from original documents.
                        Much of the personal correspondence between the general and his wife are
                        copied from notes taken by McClellan regarding those letters, and sometimes
                        even notes of McClellan's notes taken by his daughter.



                        I would check the newer works by Rafuse and Beatie for the sources they
                        used.



                        Harry



                        -----Original Message-----
                        From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com] On
                        Behalf Of Stephen Recker
                        Sent: Friday, July 08, 2005 11:31 AM
                        To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: [TalkAntietam] Lincoln and McClellan during the Maryland Campaign



                        What would be the best source for an overview of the correspondence
                        between Lincoln and McClellan during the Maryland Campaign? Thanks.

                        Stephen Recker









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                      • richard@rcroker.com
                        The Civil War Papers of Geo. Brinton McClellan editied by Steven W. Sears ... From: Stephen Recker To:
                        Message 11 of 23 , Jul 8, 2005
                          The Civil War Papers of Geo. Brinton McClellan editied by Steven W. Sears
                          ----- Original Message -----
                          From: "Stephen Recker" <recker@...>
                          To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                          Sent: Friday, July 08, 2005 12:31 PM
                          Subject: [TalkAntietam] Lincoln and McClellan during the Maryland Campaign


                          > What would be the best source for an overview of the correspondence
                          > between Lincoln and McClellan during the Maryland Campaign? Thanks.
                          >
                          > Stephen Recker
                          >
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                        • Thomas Clemens
                          In addition to Harry s suggestions, look at Basler s Collected Works of Abraham lincoln and Vol. 19 pt. 2 of the ORs, which has correspondence. Tom C. Thomas
                          Message 12 of 23 , Jul 8, 2005
                            In addition to Harry's suggestions, look at Basler's "Collected Works of
                            Abraham lincoln and Vol. 19 pt. 2 of the ORs, which has correspondence.
                            Tom C.
                            Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
                            Professor of History
                            Hagerstown Community College


                            >>> hjs21@... 07/08/05 12:39 PM >>>
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