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Re: [TalkAntietam] Re: New Hampshire officials want battlefield monument

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  • G E Mayers
    Dear Brian, IF there be support for a single monument at the Sunken Road for all the CSA units which fought there, then to be fair, there should be also a
    Message 1 of 23 , Jun 28, 2005
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      Dear Brian,

      IF there be support for a single monument at the Sunken Road for all the CSA
      units which fought there, then to be fair, there should be also a single
      monument to all the Union units who fought there. However, since there are
      already monuments to the various Union units, I doubt such a thing will
      happen.

      Very respectfully,
      G E "Gerry" Mayers
      Confederate Signal Corps,
      Longstreet's Corps



      ----- Original Message -----
      From: "Brian Morris" <ironbrigade@...>
      To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2005 5:24 PM
      Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Re: New Hampshire officials want battlefield
      monument


      > There are several forces in the works here. The first is the political
      > forces behind this. By that I mean it sounds great on the campaign trail
      > to
      > say you helped build a monument to our fallen soldiers and sounds really
      > bad
      > to say you voted against a monument. So there is a lot of pressure to vote
      > for this simply so it can't be used as ammunition against you come
      > election
      > time. This is likely why my local representative will vote for it because
      > he
      > will likely be running against a Gulf War veteran and doesn't want to hand
      > him any ammunition.
      >
      > There are also some groups who feel that there are not enough Confederate
      > monuments on the Gettysburg and Antietam battlefields. I lurk on a
      > discussion group that can be best described as a lost cause group. They
      > want
      > this to pass through to pave the way for monuments to their favorite
      > Confederate regiment, general or whatever that they feel has been missing
      > all these years. There are already a number of monument ideas in the works
      > if this goes through, created from my understanding by the same artist set
      > to do the New Hampshire monument. I wonder how much money he will make if
      > all these monuments get approved?
      >
      > I think the first thing to expect from my understanding if the New
      > Hampshire
      > monument goes through are proposals for statues to Lee and Jackson at
      > Antietam. I have also heard that there is a group wanting either
      > individual
      > monuments or a single monument to the Confederate regiments at the Sunken
      > Road.
      >
      > Brian
      >
      >> What's seems likely is that he and the other NH politicians are not
      >> really thinking of the Boys of 1862 - just the voters of today. Their
      >> jobs, I suppose ...
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    • robert blama
      I don t reply that much but as an avid civil war buff I like to listen to what others say. I think being against the monuments may be an over reation. I m
      Message 2 of 23 , Jun 28, 2005
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        I don't reply that much but as an avid civil war buff I like to listen to what others say. I think being against the monuments may be an over reation. I'm not to sure it will open any flood walls and have monuments pop up all over the place. He has one point and that is most people that visit a battle field look at the monuments for reference, information and a better understanding. These are the same people that donate lots of money for battlefield preservation. Without their support alot of historic turf would be now paved. I know I will get a lot of negative feedback but each has their opinion so let it fly.
        ----- Original Message -----
        From: Brian Downey
        To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2005 12:47 PM
        Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: New Hampshire officials want battlefield monument


        > "I don't look at the grass. I don't look at the trees," Letourneau
        > said about visiting battlefields. "I look at the monuments."

        This is just sad. In so many ways.

        [opinion, fwiw]
        What's seems likely is that he and the other NH politicians are not
        really thinking of the Boys of 1862 - just the voters of today. Their
        jobs, I suppose ...










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      • Stephen Recker
        I ve been giving tours at Antietam lately and I hear a lot of people specifically marvel at how wonderful it is to see a pristine battlefield without modern
        Message 3 of 23 , Jun 28, 2005
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          I've been giving tours at Antietam lately and I hear a lot of people
          specifically marvel at how wonderful it is to see a pristine
          battlefield without modern obstructions. I have yet to hear one person
          lament that there are too few monuments.

          Stephen


          On Tuesday, June 28, 2005, at 06:54 PM, robert blama wrote:

          >
          > I don't reply that much but as an avid civil war buff I like to listen
          > to what others say. I think being against the monuments may be an
          > over reation. I'm not to sure it will open any flood walls and have
          > monuments pop up all over the place. He has one point and that is
          > most people that visit a battle field look at the monuments for
          > reference, information and a better understanding. These are the same
          > people that donate lots of money for battlefield preservation.
          > Without their support alot of historic turf would be now paved. I
          > know I will get a lot of negative feedback but each has their opinion
          > so let it fly.
          >
        • Thomas Clemens
          Brian, Exactly, he cannot see the forest for the trees. Tom Thomas G. Clemens D.A. Professor of History Hagerstown Community College
          Message 4 of 23 , Jun 28, 2005
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            Brian,
            Exactly, he cannot see the forest for the trees.
            Tom
            Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
            Professor of History
            Hagerstown Community College


            >>> bdowney@... 06/28/05 12:47 PM >>>
          • Thomas Clemens
            I can only tell you that John Howard has a file folder of groups wanting monuments, at least 15 at present, who now will have a precedent. I understand your
            Message 5 of 23 , Jun 28, 2005
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              I can only tell you that John Howard has a file folder of groups wanting
              monuments, at least 15 at present, who now will have a precedent. I
              understand your point, but do not agree with it. How many monuments are
              at Normandy? Or is it important tot see what those brave soldiers
              faced? Let the restored/preserved be the monument!
              Tom Clemens

              Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
              Professor of History
              Hagerstown Community College


              >>> civilwar1@... 06/28/05 6:54 PM >>>
            • Brian Morris
              The reason there is a moratorium to begin with was to put a stop to political monuments being placed on these battlefields. Specifically it was in response to
              Message 6 of 23 , Jun 28, 2005
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                The reason there is a moratorium to begin with was to put a stop to
                political monuments being placed on these battlefields. Specifically it was
                in response to the North Carolina monument and 11 Mississippi monuments near
                the Angle at Gettysburg that were placed in the wrong place and in direct
                violation of the rules created for monument placement at Gettysburg by the
                veterans who fought there. In the case of the North Carolina monument, it
                also tells a story that is a complete fiction. They are monuments to modern
                day politics more than anything connected to the battle, placed by
                politicians who used the campaigns to place them there for political gain.

                As for not opening a flood of monuments, there are as far as I know 15 new
                monuments, mostly from southern groups, currently proposed for Antietam
                alone if this goes through. I am sure that there are others that have not
                gone public. If that isn't a flood, I don't know what is. You know once we
                start seeing groups getting a monument put up for their favorite regiment at
                Antietam, every reenactment group is going to want one for their regiment
                and of course they'll get their congressman to support it because it's good
                for grabbing votes.

                Brian


                > I don't reply that much but as an avid civil war buff I like to listen to
                what others say. I think being against the monuments may be an over
                reation. I'm not to sure it will open any flood walls and have monuments
                pop up all over the place. He has one point and that is most people that
                visit a battle field look at the monuments for reference, information and a
                better understanding. These are the same people that donate lots of money
                for battlefield preservation. Without their support alot of historic turf
                would be now paved. I know I will get a lot of negative feedback but each
                has their opinion so let it fly.
                > ----- Original Message -----
                > From: Brian Downey
                > To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                > Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2005 12:47 PM
                > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: New Hampshire officials want battlefield
                monument
                >
                >
                > > "I don't look at the grass. I don't look at the trees," Letourneau
                > > said about visiting battlefields. "I look at the monuments."
                >
                > This is just sad. In so many ways.
                >
                > [opinion, fwiw]
                > What's seems likely is that he and the other NH politicians are not
                > really thinking of the Boys of 1862 - just the voters of today. Their
                > jobs, I suppose ...
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
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              • Stephen Recker
                Last night I was reading Taken at the Flood and came across a sentence that has me very confused. This is from p. 226. He stopped short of Vestal Gap in the
                Message 7 of 23 , Jun 30, 2005
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                  Last night I was reading "Taken at the Flood" and came across a
                  sentence that has me very confused. This is from p. 226.

                  'He stopped short of Vestal Gap in the Blue Ridge (Elk Ridge in
                  Maryland) and the Short Hills (South Mountain in Maryland).'

                  Now, I have always heard that South Mountain was the northern extension
                  of the Blue Ridge. In McLaw's report, OR19, p852, he refers to Elk
                  Ridge by name and refers to South Mountain as the Blue Ridge. Looking
                  at a map, though, it looks like I agree with Joseph Harsh.

                  Comments? Thanks.

                  Stephen Recker
                • G E Mayers
                  Dear Stephen, Both could be correct. Very respectfully, G E Gerry Mayers Confederate Signal Corps, Longstreet s Corps ... From: Stephen Recker
                  Message 8 of 23 , Jun 30, 2005
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                    Dear Stephen,

                    Both could be correct.

                    Very respectfully,
                    G E "Gerry" Mayers
                    Confederate Signal Corps,
                    Longstreet's Corps



                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: "Stephen Recker" <recker@...>
                    To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                    Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2005 8:41 AM
                    Subject: [TalkAntietam] Blue Ridge Mountains...or not


                    > Last night I was reading "Taken at the Flood" and came across a
                    > sentence that has me very confused. This is from p. 226.
                    >
                    > 'He stopped short of Vestal Gap in the Blue Ridge (Elk Ridge in
                    > Maryland) and the Short Hills (South Mountain in Maryland).'
                    >
                    > Now, I have always heard that South Mountain was the northern extension
                    > of the Blue Ridge. In McLaw's report, OR19, p852, he refers to Elk
                    > Ridge by name and refers to South Mountain as the Blue Ridge. Looking
                    > at a map, though, it looks like I agree with Joseph Harsh.
                    >
                    > Comments? Thanks.
                    >
                    > Stephen Recker
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
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                  • Stephen Recker
                    Dear Gerry, i was afraid you would say something like that! Stephen
                    Message 9 of 23 , Jun 30, 2005
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                      Dear Gerry,

                      i was afraid you would say something like that!

                      Stephen

                      On Thursday, June 30, 2005, at 08:55 AM, G E Mayers wrote:

                      > Dear Stephen,
                      >
                      > Both could be correct.
                      >
                      > Very respectfully,
                      > G E "Gerry" Mayers
                      > Confederate Signal Corps,
                      > Longstreet's Corps
                    • G E Mayers
                      Stephen, Actually CW terminology was not as precise as we use today. However, South Mountain in MD is indeed considered part of the Blue Ridge, with Elk Ridge
                      Message 10 of 23 , Jun 30, 2005
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                        Stephen,

                        Actually CW terminology was not as precise as we use today. However, South
                        Mountain in MD is indeed considered part of the Blue Ridge, with Elk Ridge
                        more of an extension of the Blue Ridge.

                        Tom Clemens might be able to help you sort this out better, as he lives
                        nearby.

                        Very respectfully,
                        G E "Gerry" Mayers
                        Confederate Signal Corps,
                        Longstreet's Corps



                        ----- Original Message -----
                        From: "Stephen Recker" <recker@...>
                        To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                        Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2005 8:59 AM
                        Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Blue Ridge Mountains...or not


                        > Dear Gerry,
                        >
                        > i was afraid you would say something like that!
                        >
                        > Stephen
                        >
                        > On Thursday, June 30, 2005, at 08:55 AM, G E Mayers wrote:
                        >
                        >> Dear Stephen,
                        >>
                        >> Both could be correct.
                        >>
                        >> Very respectfully,
                        >> G E "Gerry" Mayers
                        >> Confederate Signal Corps,
                        >> Longstreet's Corps
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
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                      • Thomas Clemens
                        I believe the aqccount by Joe is correct. If you go to Weverton, the base of South Mountain and look acrossthe river there is only Short Hill. OTOH, if you
                        Message 11 of 23 , Jun 30, 2005
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                          I believe the aqccount by Joe is correct. If you go to Weverton, the
                          base of South Mountain and look acrossthe river there is only Short
                          Hill. OTOH, if you go to Sandy Hook and look across you see Loudoun
                          Hts. which extends southward as the Blue Ridge. I think this is correct
                          but am away from maps and home right now.


                          Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
                          Professor of History
                          Hagerstown Community College


                          >>> recker@... 06/30/05 8:41 AM >>>
                        • Stephen Recker
                          What would be the best source for an overview of the correspondence between Lincoln and McClellan during the Maryland Campaign? Thanks. Stephen Recker
                          Message 12 of 23 , Jul 8, 2005
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                            What would be the best source for an overview of the correspondence
                            between Lincoln and McClellan during the Maryland Campaign? Thanks.

                            Stephen Recker
                          • Harry Smeltzer
                            The best source would be the McClellan papers on microfilm. Apparently, the papers themselves have become hopelessly disordered. The selected (keep in mind, it
                            Message 13 of 23 , Jul 8, 2005
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                              The best source would be the McClellan papers on microfilm.



                              Apparently, the papers themselves have become hopelessly disordered.



                              The selected (keep in mind, it is selected) correspondence in "The Civil War
                              Paper of George B.McClellan" are not all copied from original documents.
                              Much of the personal correspondence between the general and his wife are
                              copied from notes taken by McClellan regarding those letters, and sometimes
                              even notes of McClellan's notes taken by his daughter.



                              I would check the newer works by Rafuse and Beatie for the sources they
                              used.



                              Harry



                              -----Original Message-----
                              From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com] On
                              Behalf Of Stephen Recker
                              Sent: Friday, July 08, 2005 11:31 AM
                              To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                              Subject: [TalkAntietam] Lincoln and McClellan during the Maryland Campaign



                              What would be the best source for an overview of the correspondence
                              between Lincoln and McClellan during the Maryland Campaign? Thanks.

                              Stephen Recker









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                            • richard@rcroker.com
                              The Civil War Papers of Geo. Brinton McClellan editied by Steven W. Sears ... From: Stephen Recker To:
                              Message 14 of 23 , Jul 8, 2005
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                                The Civil War Papers of Geo. Brinton McClellan editied by Steven W. Sears
                                ----- Original Message -----
                                From: "Stephen Recker" <recker@...>
                                To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                                Sent: Friday, July 08, 2005 12:31 PM
                                Subject: [TalkAntietam] Lincoln and McClellan during the Maryland Campaign


                                > What would be the best source for an overview of the correspondence
                                > between Lincoln and McClellan during the Maryland Campaign? Thanks.
                                >
                                > Stephen Recker
                                >
                                >
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                              • Thomas Clemens
                                In addition to Harry s suggestions, look at Basler s Collected Works of Abraham lincoln and Vol. 19 pt. 2 of the ORs, which has correspondence. Tom C. Thomas
                                Message 15 of 23 , Jul 8, 2005
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                                  In addition to Harry's suggestions, look at Basler's "Collected Works of
                                  Abraham lincoln and Vol. 19 pt. 2 of the ORs, which has correspondence.
                                  Tom C.
                                  Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
                                  Professor of History
                                  Hagerstown Community College


                                  >>> hjs21@... 07/08/05 12:39 PM >>>
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