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New Hampshire officials want battlefield monument

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  • 128thpa@comcast.net
    Boy, does that say it all!! Ok, what can we do next? Paula ... Moron. ... From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
    Message 1 of 23 , Jun 28, 2005
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      Boy, does that say it all!! Ok, what can we do next?
      Paula

      -------------- Original message --------------
      Moron.



      -----Original Message-----
      From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com] On
      Behalf Of Stephen Recker
      Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2005 7:44 AM
      To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: [TalkAntietam] New Hampshire officials want battlefield monument




      "I don't look at the grass. I don't look at the trees," Letourneau said
      about visiting battlefields. "I look at the monuments."








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    • G E Mayers
      Dear Brian, IF there be support for a single monument at the Sunken Road for all the CSA units which fought there, then to be fair, there should be also a
      Message 2 of 23 , Jun 28, 2005
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        Dear Brian,

        IF there be support for a single monument at the Sunken Road for all the CSA
        units which fought there, then to be fair, there should be also a single
        monument to all the Union units who fought there. However, since there are
        already monuments to the various Union units, I doubt such a thing will
        happen.

        Very respectfully,
        G E "Gerry" Mayers
        Confederate Signal Corps,
        Longstreet's Corps



        ----- Original Message -----
        From: "Brian Morris" <ironbrigade@...>
        To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2005 5:24 PM
        Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Re: New Hampshire officials want battlefield
        monument


        > There are several forces in the works here. The first is the political
        > forces behind this. By that I mean it sounds great on the campaign trail
        > to
        > say you helped build a monument to our fallen soldiers and sounds really
        > bad
        > to say you voted against a monument. So there is a lot of pressure to vote
        > for this simply so it can't be used as ammunition against you come
        > election
        > time. This is likely why my local representative will vote for it because
        > he
        > will likely be running against a Gulf War veteran and doesn't want to hand
        > him any ammunition.
        >
        > There are also some groups who feel that there are not enough Confederate
        > monuments on the Gettysburg and Antietam battlefields. I lurk on a
        > discussion group that can be best described as a lost cause group. They
        > want
        > this to pass through to pave the way for monuments to their favorite
        > Confederate regiment, general or whatever that they feel has been missing
        > all these years. There are already a number of monument ideas in the works
        > if this goes through, created from my understanding by the same artist set
        > to do the New Hampshire monument. I wonder how much money he will make if
        > all these monuments get approved?
        >
        > I think the first thing to expect from my understanding if the New
        > Hampshire
        > monument goes through are proposals for statues to Lee and Jackson at
        > Antietam. I have also heard that there is a group wanting either
        > individual
        > monuments or a single monument to the Confederate regiments at the Sunken
        > Road.
        >
        > Brian
        >
        >> What's seems likely is that he and the other NH politicians are not
        >> really thinking of the Boys of 1862 - just the voters of today. Their
        >> jobs, I suppose ...
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      • robert blama
        I don t reply that much but as an avid civil war buff I like to listen to what others say. I think being against the monuments may be an over reation. I m
        Message 3 of 23 , Jun 28, 2005
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          I don't reply that much but as an avid civil war buff I like to listen to what others say. I think being against the monuments may be an over reation. I'm not to sure it will open any flood walls and have monuments pop up all over the place. He has one point and that is most people that visit a battle field look at the monuments for reference, information and a better understanding. These are the same people that donate lots of money for battlefield preservation. Without their support alot of historic turf would be now paved. I know I will get a lot of negative feedback but each has their opinion so let it fly.
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: Brian Downey
          To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2005 12:47 PM
          Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: New Hampshire officials want battlefield monument


          > "I don't look at the grass. I don't look at the trees," Letourneau
          > said about visiting battlefields. "I look at the monuments."

          This is just sad. In so many ways.

          [opinion, fwiw]
          What's seems likely is that he and the other NH politicians are not
          really thinking of the Boys of 1862 - just the voters of today. Their
          jobs, I suppose ...










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        • Stephen Recker
          I ve been giving tours at Antietam lately and I hear a lot of people specifically marvel at how wonderful it is to see a pristine battlefield without modern
          Message 4 of 23 , Jun 28, 2005
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            I've been giving tours at Antietam lately and I hear a lot of people
            specifically marvel at how wonderful it is to see a pristine
            battlefield without modern obstructions. I have yet to hear one person
            lament that there are too few monuments.

            Stephen


            On Tuesday, June 28, 2005, at 06:54 PM, robert blama wrote:

            >
            > I don't reply that much but as an avid civil war buff I like to listen
            > to what others say. I think being against the monuments may be an
            > over reation. I'm not to sure it will open any flood walls and have
            > monuments pop up all over the place. He has one point and that is
            > most people that visit a battle field look at the monuments for
            > reference, information and a better understanding. These are the same
            > people that donate lots of money for battlefield preservation.
            > Without their support alot of historic turf would be now paved. I
            > know I will get a lot of negative feedback but each has their opinion
            > so let it fly.
            >
          • Thomas Clemens
            Brian, Exactly, he cannot see the forest for the trees. Tom Thomas G. Clemens D.A. Professor of History Hagerstown Community College
            Message 5 of 23 , Jun 28, 2005
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              Brian,
              Exactly, he cannot see the forest for the trees.
              Tom
              Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
              Professor of History
              Hagerstown Community College


              >>> bdowney@... 06/28/05 12:47 PM >>>
            • Thomas Clemens
              I can only tell you that John Howard has a file folder of groups wanting monuments, at least 15 at present, who now will have a precedent. I understand your
              Message 6 of 23 , Jun 28, 2005
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                I can only tell you that John Howard has a file folder of groups wanting
                monuments, at least 15 at present, who now will have a precedent. I
                understand your point, but do not agree with it. How many monuments are
                at Normandy? Or is it important tot see what those brave soldiers
                faced? Let the restored/preserved be the monument!
                Tom Clemens

                Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
                Professor of History
                Hagerstown Community College


                >>> civilwar1@... 06/28/05 6:54 PM >>>
              • Brian Morris
                The reason there is a moratorium to begin with was to put a stop to political monuments being placed on these battlefields. Specifically it was in response to
                Message 7 of 23 , Jun 28, 2005
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                  The reason there is a moratorium to begin with was to put a stop to
                  political monuments being placed on these battlefields. Specifically it was
                  in response to the North Carolina monument and 11 Mississippi monuments near
                  the Angle at Gettysburg that were placed in the wrong place and in direct
                  violation of the rules created for monument placement at Gettysburg by the
                  veterans who fought there. In the case of the North Carolina monument, it
                  also tells a story that is a complete fiction. They are monuments to modern
                  day politics more than anything connected to the battle, placed by
                  politicians who used the campaigns to place them there for political gain.

                  As for not opening a flood of monuments, there are as far as I know 15 new
                  monuments, mostly from southern groups, currently proposed for Antietam
                  alone if this goes through. I am sure that there are others that have not
                  gone public. If that isn't a flood, I don't know what is. You know once we
                  start seeing groups getting a monument put up for their favorite regiment at
                  Antietam, every reenactment group is going to want one for their regiment
                  and of course they'll get their congressman to support it because it's good
                  for grabbing votes.

                  Brian


                  > I don't reply that much but as an avid civil war buff I like to listen to
                  what others say. I think being against the monuments may be an over
                  reation. I'm not to sure it will open any flood walls and have monuments
                  pop up all over the place. He has one point and that is most people that
                  visit a battle field look at the monuments for reference, information and a
                  better understanding. These are the same people that donate lots of money
                  for battlefield preservation. Without their support alot of historic turf
                  would be now paved. I know I will get a lot of negative feedback but each
                  has their opinion so let it fly.
                  > ----- Original Message -----
                  > From: Brian Downey
                  > To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                  > Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2005 12:47 PM
                  > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: New Hampshire officials want battlefield
                  monument
                  >
                  >
                  > > "I don't look at the grass. I don't look at the trees," Letourneau
                  > > said about visiting battlefields. "I look at the monuments."
                  >
                  > This is just sad. In so many ways.
                  >
                  > [opinion, fwiw]
                  > What's seems likely is that he and the other NH politicians are not
                  > really thinking of the Boys of 1862 - just the voters of today. Their
                  > jobs, I suppose ...
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
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                • Stephen Recker
                  Last night I was reading Taken at the Flood and came across a sentence that has me very confused. This is from p. 226. He stopped short of Vestal Gap in the
                  Message 8 of 23 , Jun 30, 2005
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                    Last night I was reading "Taken at the Flood" and came across a
                    sentence that has me very confused. This is from p. 226.

                    'He stopped short of Vestal Gap in the Blue Ridge (Elk Ridge in
                    Maryland) and the Short Hills (South Mountain in Maryland).'

                    Now, I have always heard that South Mountain was the northern extension
                    of the Blue Ridge. In McLaw's report, OR19, p852, he refers to Elk
                    Ridge by name and refers to South Mountain as the Blue Ridge. Looking
                    at a map, though, it looks like I agree with Joseph Harsh.

                    Comments? Thanks.

                    Stephen Recker
                  • G E Mayers
                    Dear Stephen, Both could be correct. Very respectfully, G E Gerry Mayers Confederate Signal Corps, Longstreet s Corps ... From: Stephen Recker
                    Message 9 of 23 , Jun 30, 2005
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                      Dear Stephen,

                      Both could be correct.

                      Very respectfully,
                      G E "Gerry" Mayers
                      Confederate Signal Corps,
                      Longstreet's Corps



                      ----- Original Message -----
                      From: "Stephen Recker" <recker@...>
                      To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                      Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2005 8:41 AM
                      Subject: [TalkAntietam] Blue Ridge Mountains...or not


                      > Last night I was reading "Taken at the Flood" and came across a
                      > sentence that has me very confused. This is from p. 226.
                      >
                      > 'He stopped short of Vestal Gap in the Blue Ridge (Elk Ridge in
                      > Maryland) and the Short Hills (South Mountain in Maryland).'
                      >
                      > Now, I have always heard that South Mountain was the northern extension
                      > of the Blue Ridge. In McLaw's report, OR19, p852, he refers to Elk
                      > Ridge by name and refers to South Mountain as the Blue Ridge. Looking
                      > at a map, though, it looks like I agree with Joseph Harsh.
                      >
                      > Comments? Thanks.
                      >
                      > Stephen Recker
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
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                    • Stephen Recker
                      Dear Gerry, i was afraid you would say something like that! Stephen
                      Message 10 of 23 , Jun 30, 2005
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                        Dear Gerry,

                        i was afraid you would say something like that!

                        Stephen

                        On Thursday, June 30, 2005, at 08:55 AM, G E Mayers wrote:

                        > Dear Stephen,
                        >
                        > Both could be correct.
                        >
                        > Very respectfully,
                        > G E "Gerry" Mayers
                        > Confederate Signal Corps,
                        > Longstreet's Corps
                      • G E Mayers
                        Stephen, Actually CW terminology was not as precise as we use today. However, South Mountain in MD is indeed considered part of the Blue Ridge, with Elk Ridge
                        Message 11 of 23 , Jun 30, 2005
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                          Stephen,

                          Actually CW terminology was not as precise as we use today. However, South
                          Mountain in MD is indeed considered part of the Blue Ridge, with Elk Ridge
                          more of an extension of the Blue Ridge.

                          Tom Clemens might be able to help you sort this out better, as he lives
                          nearby.

                          Very respectfully,
                          G E "Gerry" Mayers
                          Confederate Signal Corps,
                          Longstreet's Corps



                          ----- Original Message -----
                          From: "Stephen Recker" <recker@...>
                          To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                          Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2005 8:59 AM
                          Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Blue Ridge Mountains...or not


                          > Dear Gerry,
                          >
                          > i was afraid you would say something like that!
                          >
                          > Stephen
                          >
                          > On Thursday, June 30, 2005, at 08:55 AM, G E Mayers wrote:
                          >
                          >> Dear Stephen,
                          >>
                          >> Both could be correct.
                          >>
                          >> Very respectfully,
                          >> G E "Gerry" Mayers
                          >> Confederate Signal Corps,
                          >> Longstreet's Corps
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
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                        • Thomas Clemens
                          I believe the aqccount by Joe is correct. If you go to Weverton, the base of South Mountain and look acrossthe river there is only Short Hill. OTOH, if you
                          Message 12 of 23 , Jun 30, 2005
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                            I believe the aqccount by Joe is correct. If you go to Weverton, the
                            base of South Mountain and look acrossthe river there is only Short
                            Hill. OTOH, if you go to Sandy Hook and look across you see Loudoun
                            Hts. which extends southward as the Blue Ridge. I think this is correct
                            but am away from maps and home right now.


                            Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
                            Professor of History
                            Hagerstown Community College


                            >>> recker@... 06/30/05 8:41 AM >>>
                          • Stephen Recker
                            What would be the best source for an overview of the correspondence between Lincoln and McClellan during the Maryland Campaign? Thanks. Stephen Recker
                            Message 13 of 23 , Jul 8, 2005
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                              What would be the best source for an overview of the correspondence
                              between Lincoln and McClellan during the Maryland Campaign? Thanks.

                              Stephen Recker
                            • Harry Smeltzer
                              The best source would be the McClellan papers on microfilm. Apparently, the papers themselves have become hopelessly disordered. The selected (keep in mind, it
                              Message 14 of 23 , Jul 8, 2005
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                                The best source would be the McClellan papers on microfilm.



                                Apparently, the papers themselves have become hopelessly disordered.



                                The selected (keep in mind, it is selected) correspondence in "The Civil War
                                Paper of George B.McClellan" are not all copied from original documents.
                                Much of the personal correspondence between the general and his wife are
                                copied from notes taken by McClellan regarding those letters, and sometimes
                                even notes of McClellan's notes taken by his daughter.



                                I would check the newer works by Rafuse and Beatie for the sources they
                                used.



                                Harry



                                -----Original Message-----
                                From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com] On
                                Behalf Of Stephen Recker
                                Sent: Friday, July 08, 2005 11:31 AM
                                To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                                Subject: [TalkAntietam] Lincoln and McClellan during the Maryland Campaign



                                What would be the best source for an overview of the correspondence
                                between Lincoln and McClellan during the Maryland Campaign? Thanks.

                                Stephen Recker









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                              • richard@rcroker.com
                                The Civil War Papers of Geo. Brinton McClellan editied by Steven W. Sears ... From: Stephen Recker To:
                                Message 15 of 23 , Jul 8, 2005
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                                  The Civil War Papers of Geo. Brinton McClellan editied by Steven W. Sears
                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                  From: "Stephen Recker" <recker@...>
                                  To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                                  Sent: Friday, July 08, 2005 12:31 PM
                                  Subject: [TalkAntietam] Lincoln and McClellan during the Maryland Campaign


                                  > What would be the best source for an overview of the correspondence
                                  > between Lincoln and McClellan during the Maryland Campaign? Thanks.
                                  >
                                  > Stephen Recker
                                  >
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                                • Thomas Clemens
                                  In addition to Harry s suggestions, look at Basler s Collected Works of Abraham lincoln and Vol. 19 pt. 2 of the ORs, which has correspondence. Tom C. Thomas
                                  Message 16 of 23 , Jul 8, 2005
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                                    In addition to Harry's suggestions, look at Basler's "Collected Works of
                                    Abraham lincoln and Vol. 19 pt. 2 of the ORs, which has correspondence.
                                    Tom C.
                                    Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
                                    Professor of History
                                    Hagerstown Community College


                                    >>> hjs21@... 07/08/05 12:39 PM >>>
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