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[TalkAntietam] Smallpox (was: Where was JLC during the battle?)

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  • bdowney@aotw.org
    Hi Donna, Welcome to the group, it s good to see fresh activity. This is fascinating stuff about the 20th Maine and smallpox. Do you remember the source? A
    Message 1 of 29 , May 30, 2005
      Hi Donna,

      Welcome to the group, it's good to see fresh activity.

      This is fascinating stuff about the 20th Maine and smallpox. Do you remember the
      source? A fine anecdote, if true. I'd love to use it ... if it's documented reliably.

      Were smallpox inoculations common among the troops during the War? I've not seen
      mention of this before, but then, my memory goes sometimes ...

      Brian


      > I am new to this list.
      > I had read that the 20 ME had just received their inoculations for
      > small pox and were in isolation because the serum was bad, and
      > Chamberlain was with that group. I have no idea if that statement is
      > valid.
      > Donna
      >
      > -------------- Original message --------------
      > Where was Joshua Lawrence Chamberlain during the Battle of Antietam?
      > Thanks.
      >
      > Stephen Recker
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
      >
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    • richard@rcroker.com
      And speaking of inoculations -- I went to a lecture last week and this college professor said that on occasion inoculations were given by cutting the recipient
      Message 2 of 29 , May 30, 2005
        And speaking of inoculations --

        I went to a lecture last week and this college professor said that on
        occasion inoculations were given by cutting the recipient and covering the
        wound with a SCAB from an infected person! Okay -- all together now --
        YUCK!

        In actuality -- I guess that was pretty advanced science for the day.

        ----- Original Message -----
        From: "Donna" <runtoto@...>
        To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Monday, May 30, 2005 8:19 PM
        Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Where was JLC during the battle?


        > I am new to this list.
        > I had read that the 20 ME had just received their inoculations for small
        pox and were in isolation because the serum was bad, and Chamberlain was
        with that group. I have no idea if that statement is valid.
        > Donna
        >
        > -------------- Original message --------------
        > Where was Joshua Lawrence Chamberlain during the Battle of Antietam?
        > Thanks.
        >
        > Stephen Recker
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
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      • Donna
        Hi Brian Thanks for the welcome. My guess is that the inoculations were required. I went through the barracks in Trenton and the guide told us that George
        Message 3 of 29 , May 30, 2005
          Hi Brian Thanks for the welcome.
          My guess is that the inoculations were required. I went through the barracks in Trenton and the guide told us that George Washington required the troops to be inoculated in the Revolutionary War. I am sure it continued. I will look around and see if I can find anything credible about the story. It was just one of those things that just stuck in my mind.
          Donna
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: bdowney@...
          To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Monday, May 30, 2005 9:38 PM
          Subject: [TalkAntietam] Smallpox (was: Where was JLC during the battle?)


          Hi Donna,

          Welcome to the group, it's good to see fresh activity.

          This is fascinating stuff about the 20th Maine and smallpox. Do you remember the
          source? A fine anecdote, if true. I'd love to use it ... if it's documented reliably.

          Were smallpox inoculations common among the troops during the War? I've not seen
          mention of this before, but then, my memory goes sometimes ...

          Brian


          > I am new to this list.
          > I had read that the 20 ME had just received their inoculations for
          > small pox and were in isolation because the serum was bad, and
          > Chamberlain was with that group. I have no idea if that statement is
          > valid.
          > Donna
          >
          > -------------- Original message --------------
          > Where was Joshua Lawrence Chamberlain during the Battle of Antietam?
          > Thanks.
          >
          > Stephen Recker
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          >
          >
          > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
          > --------------------~--> In low income neighborhoods, 84% do not own
          > computers. At Network for Good, help bridge the Digital Divide!
          > http://us.click.yahoo.com/S.QlOD/3MnJAA/Zx0JAA/GmiolB/TM
          > --------------------------------------------------------------------~-
          > >
          >
          >
          >
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >









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          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Harry Smeltzer
          I ve heard this story as well, but for some reason associate it with Chancellorsville and not Antietam. Harry ... From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
          Message 4 of 29 , May 30, 2005
            I've heard this story as well, but for some reason associate it with
            Chancellorsville and not Antietam.



            Harry



            -----Original Message-----
            From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com] On
            Behalf Of Donna
            Sent: Monday, May 30, 2005 8:46 PM
            To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Smallpox (was: Where was JLC during the battle?)



            Hi Brian Thanks for the welcome.
            My guess is that the inoculations were required. I went through the barracks
            in Trenton and the guide told us that George Washington required the troops
            to be inoculated in the Revolutionary War. I am sure it continued. I will
            look around and see if I can find anything credible about the story. It was
            just one of those things that just stuck in my mind.
            Donna
            ----- Original Message -----
            From: bdowney@...
            To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Monday, May 30, 2005 9:38 PM
            Subject: [TalkAntietam] Smallpox (was: Where was JLC during the battle?)


            Hi Donna,

            Welcome to the group, it's good to see fresh activity.

            This is fascinating stuff about the 20th Maine and smallpox. Do you
            remember the
            source? A fine anecdote, if true. I'd love to use it ... if it's
            documented reliably.

            Were smallpox inoculations common among the troops during the War? I've
            not seen
            mention of this before, but then, my memory goes sometimes ...

            Brian


            > I am new to this list.
            > I had read that the 20 ME had just received their inoculations for
            > small pox and were in isolation because the serum was bad, and
            > Chamberlain was with that group. I have no idea if that statement is
            > valid.
            > Donna
            >
            > -------------- Original message --------------
            > Where was Joshua Lawrence Chamberlain during the Battle of Antietam?
            > Thanks.
            >
            > Stephen Recker
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
            >
            >
            > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
            > --------------------~--> In low income neighborhoods, 84% do not own
            > computers. At Network for Good, help bridge the Digital Divide!
            > http://us.click.yahoo.com/S.QlOD/3MnJAA/Zx0JAA/GmiolB/TM
            > --------------------------------------------------------------------~-
            > >
            >
            >
            >
            > Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >









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            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Donna
            I am wrong. The small pox inoculations were given to the 20th Maine prior to Chancellorsville not Antietam. Sorry for the confusion. Donna BTW. In the early
            Message 5 of 29 , May 30, 2005
              I am wrong. The small pox inoculations were given to the 20th Maine prior to Chancellorsville not Antietam. Sorry for the confusion.
              Donna

              BTW. In the early days, a person was inoculated in the following way. A thread was drawn through the pustule of an infected patient then drawn through the skin of a healthy patient. The science was the same as today, that the individual would develop a resistance to a given virus. Sometimes an individual developed the disease, but the numbers were definitely in the favor of inoculation.
              Donna
              > -------------- Original message --------------
              > Where was Joshua Lawrence Chamberlain during the Battle of Antietam?
              > Thanks.
              >
              > Stephen Recker
              >
              >
              >


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • G E Mayers
              Dear Donna, Do you live in NJ? I am about an hour north of Trenton and years ago went through the Old Barracks one December 266h when there was a re-creation
              Message 6 of 29 , May 30, 2005
                Dear Donna,

                Do you live in NJ? I am about an hour north of Trenton and years ago went
                through the Old Barracks one December 266h when there was a re-creation of
                part of the Battle of Trenton.

                As to JLC and 20th ME VI, their first actual battle was Fredericksburg. The
                20th ME was part of the overall reserve at Antietam of Porter's V Corps. As
                the 20th ME was a very green unit, I doubt Mac would have used them even if
                necessary.

                Very respectfully,
                G E "Gerry" Mayers
                Confederate Signal Corps,
                Longstreet's Corps



                ----- Original Message -----
                From: "Donna" <runtoto@...>
                To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                Sent: Monday, May 30, 2005 9:46 PM
                Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Smallpox (was: Where was JLC during the battle?)


                > Hi Brian Thanks for the welcome.
                > My guess is that the inoculations were required. I went through the
                > barracks in Trenton and the guide told us that George Washington required
                > the troops to be inoculated in the Revolutionary War. I am sure it
                > continued. I will look around and see if I can find anything credible
                > about the story. It was just one of those things that just stuck in my
                > mind.
                > Donna
                > ----- Original Message -----
                > From: bdowney@...
                > To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                > Sent: Monday, May 30, 2005 9:38 PM
                > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Smallpox (was: Where was JLC during the battle?)
                >
                >
                > Hi Donna,
                >
                > Welcome to the group, it's good to see fresh activity.
                >
                > This is fascinating stuff about the 20th Maine and smallpox. Do you
                > remember the
                > source? A fine anecdote, if true. I'd love to use it ... if it's
                > documented reliably.
                >
                > Were smallpox inoculations common among the troops during the War? I've
                > not seen
                > mention of this before, but then, my memory goes sometimes ...
                >
                > Brian
                >
                >
                > > I am new to this list.
                > > I had read that the 20 ME had just received their inoculations for
                > > small pox and were in isolation because the serum was bad, and
                > > Chamberlain was with that group. I have no idea if that statement is
                > > valid.
                > > Donna
                > >
                > > -------------- Original message --------------
                > > Where was Joshua Lawrence Chamberlain during the Battle of Antietam?
                > > Thanks.
                > >
                > > Stephen Recker
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                > > --------------------~--> In low income neighborhoods, 84% do not own
                > > computers. At Network for Good, help bridge the Digital Divide!
                > > http://us.click.yahoo.com/S.QlOD/3MnJAA/Zx0JAA/GmiolB/TM
                > > --------------------------------------------------------------------~-
                > > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                >
                > a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
                > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TalkAntietam/
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                > Service.
                >
                >
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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                >
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                >
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                >
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                >
                > a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
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              • Donna
                Gerry, I live about 40 mins east of Trenton. The old Barracks was fascinating. The medical talk was great and I never realized that there was actually a
                Message 7 of 29 , May 30, 2005
                  Gerry,
                  I live about 40 mins east of Trenton. The old Barracks was fascinating. The medical talk was great and I never realized that there was actually a science behind their methods. I would have loved to see the recreation. I have never been to the recreation of the crossing of the Delaware.

                  That makes a lot of sense on the 20th ME. Does this mean they didn't take any casualties until Fredericksburg?
                  Donna

                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: G E Mayers
                  To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Monday, May 30, 2005 10:06 PM
                  Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Smallpox (was: Where was JLC during the battle?)


                  Dear Donna,

                  Do you live in NJ? I am about an hour north of Trenton and years ago went
                  through the Old Barracks one December 266h when there was a re-creation of
                  part of the Battle of Trenton.

                  As to JLC and 20th ME VI, their first actual battle was Fredericksburg. The
                  20th ME was part of the overall reserve at Antietam of Porter's V Corps. As
                  the 20th ME was a very green unit, I doubt Mac would have used them even if
                  necessary.

                  Very respectfully,
                  G E "Gerry" Mayers
                  Confederate Signal Corps,
                  Longstreet's Corps



                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: "Donna" <runtoto@...>
                  To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                  Sent: Monday, May 30, 2005 9:46 PM
                  Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Smallpox (was: Where was JLC during the battle?)


                  > Hi Brian Thanks for the welcome.
                  > My guess is that the inoculations were required. I went through the
                  > barracks in Trenton and the guide told us that George Washington required
                  > the troops to be inoculated in the Revolutionary War. I am sure it
                  > continued. I will look around and see if I can find anything credible
                  > about the story. It was just one of those things that just stuck in my
                  > mind.
                  > Donna
                  > ----- Original Message -----
                  > From: bdowney@...
                  > To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                  > Sent: Monday, May 30, 2005 9:38 PM
                  > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Smallpox (was: Where was JLC during the battle?)
                  >
                  >
                  > Hi Donna,
                  >
                  > Welcome to the group, it's good to see fresh activity.
                  >
                  > This is fascinating stuff about the 20th Maine and smallpox. Do you
                  > remember the
                  > source? A fine anecdote, if true. I'd love to use it ... if it's
                  > documented reliably.
                  >
                  > Were smallpox inoculations common among the troops during the War? I've
                  > not seen
                  > mention of this before, but then, my memory goes sometimes ...
                  >
                  > Brian
                  >
                  >
                  > > I am new to this list.
                  > > I had read that the 20 ME had just received their inoculations for
                  > > small pox and were in isolation because the serum was bad, and
                  > > Chamberlain was with that group. I have no idea if that statement is
                  > > valid.
                  > > Donna
                  > >
                  > > -------------- Original message --------------
                  > > Where was Joshua Lawrence Chamberlain during the Battle of Antietam?
                  > > Thanks.
                  > >
                  > > Stephen Recker
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                  > > --------------------~--> In low income neighborhoods, 84% do not own
                  > > computers. At Network for Good, help bridge the Digital Divide!
                  > > http://us.click.yahoo.com/S.QlOD/3MnJAA/Zx0JAA/GmiolB/TM
                  > > --------------------------------------------------------------------~-
                  > > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  >
                  > a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
                  > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TalkAntietam/
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                  > Service.
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                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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                  >
                  >
                  >
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                  >
                  > a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
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                  >
                  >








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                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • G E Mayers
                  Dear Donna, Re 20th ME and Fredericksburg question. I do not recall from what I have read, mostly in Pullen s book, whether the 20th ME took casualties prior
                  Message 8 of 29 , May 30, 2005
                    Dear Donna,

                    Re 20th ME and Fredericksburg question. I do not recall from what I have
                    read, mostly in Pullen's book, whether the 20th ME took casualties prior to
                    Fredericksburg. However, Fredericksburg certainly was their baptism of fire
                    in an organized sense.

                    Very respectfully,
                    G E "Gerry" Mayers
                    Confederate Signal Corps,
                    Longstreet's Corps



                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: "Donna" <runtoto@...>
                    To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                    Sent: Monday, May 30, 2005 10:11 PM
                    Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Smallpox (was: Where was JLC during the battle?)


                    > Gerry,
                    > I live about 40 mins east of Trenton. The old Barracks was fascinating.
                    > The medical talk was great and I never realized that there was actually a
                    > science behind their methods. I would have loved to see the recreation. I
                    > have never been to the recreation of the crossing of the Delaware.
                    >
                    > That makes a lot of sense on the 20th ME. Does this mean they didn't take
                    > any casualties until Fredericksburg?
                    > Donna
                    >
                    > ----- Original Message -----
                    > From: G E Mayers
                    > To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                    > Sent: Monday, May 30, 2005 10:06 PM
                    > Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Smallpox (was: Where was JLC during the
                    > battle?)
                    >
                    >
                    > Dear Donna,
                    >
                    > Do you live in NJ? I am about an hour north of Trenton and years ago went
                    > through the Old Barracks one December 266h when there was a re-creation
                    > of
                    > part of the Battle of Trenton.
                    >
                    > As to JLC and 20th ME VI, their first actual battle was Fredericksburg.
                    > The
                    > 20th ME was part of the overall reserve at Antietam of Porter's V Corps.
                    > As
                    > the 20th ME was a very green unit, I doubt Mac would have used them even
                    > if
                    > necessary.
                    >
                    > Very respectfully,
                    > G E "Gerry" Mayers
                    > Confederate Signal Corps,
                    > Longstreet's Corps
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > ----- Original Message -----
                    > From: "Donna" <runtoto@...>
                    > To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                    > Sent: Monday, May 30, 2005 9:46 PM
                    > Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Smallpox (was: Where was JLC during the
                    > battle?)
                    >
                    >
                    > > Hi Brian Thanks for the welcome.
                    > > My guess is that the inoculations were required. I went through the
                    > > barracks in Trenton and the guide told us that George Washington
                    > required
                    > > the troops to be inoculated in the Revolutionary War. I am sure it
                    > > continued. I will look around and see if I can find anything credible
                    > > about the story. It was just one of those things that just stuck in my
                    > > mind.
                    > > Donna
                    > > ----- Original Message -----
                    > > From: bdowney@...
                    > > To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                    > > Sent: Monday, May 30, 2005 9:38 PM
                    > > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Smallpox (was: Where was JLC during the
                    > battle?)
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > Hi Donna,
                    > >
                    > > Welcome to the group, it's good to see fresh activity.
                    > >
                    > > This is fascinating stuff about the 20th Maine and smallpox. Do you
                    > > remember the
                    > > source? A fine anecdote, if true. I'd love to use it ... if it's
                    > > documented reliably.
                    > >
                    > > Were smallpox inoculations common among the troops during the War?
                    > I've
                    > > not seen
                    > > mention of this before, but then, my memory goes sometimes ...
                    > >
                    > > Brian
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > > I am new to this list.
                    > > > I had read that the 20 ME had just received their inoculations for
                    > > > small pox and were in isolation because the serum was bad, and
                    > > > Chamberlain was with that group. I have no idea if that statement
                    > is
                    > > > valid.
                    > > > Donna
                    > > >
                    > > > -------------- Original message --------------
                    > > > Where was Joshua Lawrence Chamberlain during the Battle of
                    > Antietam?
                    > > > Thanks.
                    > > >
                    > > > Stephen Recker
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                    > > > --------------------~--> In low income neighborhoods, 84% do not own
                    > > > computers. At Network for Good, help bridge the Digital Divide!
                    > > > http://us.click.yahoo.com/S.QlOD/3MnJAA/Zx0JAA/GmiolB/TM
                    > >
                    > > --------------------------------------------------------------------~-
                    > > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                    > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    > >
                    > > a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
                    > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TalkAntietam/
                    > >
                    > > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                    > > TalkAntietam-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                    > >
                    > > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                    > > Service.
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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                    > >
                    > > a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
                    > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TalkAntietam/
                    > >
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                    > Service.
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                    >
                    >
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                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
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                    > a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
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                  • Teej Smith
                    ... More than you probably wanted to know about smallpox inoculations. U.S. army regulation 1299 issued in 1863 As soon as a recruit joins any regiment or
                    Message 9 of 29 , May 30, 2005
                      Brian Downey wrote:


                      >
                      > Were smallpox inoculations common among the troops during the War? I've
                      > not seen
                      > mention of this before, but then, my memory goes sometimes ...

                      More than you probably wanted to know about smallpox inoculations. U.S.
                      army regulation 1299 issued in 1863 "As soon as a recruit joins any regiment
                      or station, he shall be examined by the medical officer, and vaccinated when
                      it is required. [Vaccination was required if there was no scar documenting
                      previous vaccination." This taken from "Civil War Medicine: Challenges and
                      Triumphs" by Allen Jay Bollet, M.D. According to Dr. Bollet this regulation
                      was not always enforced and that the soldier often feared the inoculation as
                      much as he feared the disease. Sometimes the serum used was ineffective or
                      as in the case of the 20th Maine, tainted. Often the soldiers inoculated
                      each other by using unsterilized knives dipped in the liquid from a lesion.
                      The result was often a severe local infection which, if it went to "blood
                      poisoning," could cause the need for amputation or even death. Apparently
                      the Confederate soldier was more likely to develop an infection because of
                      poor diet.
                      I have a letter from a Confederate lieutenant stationed in Tennessee in
                      which he told his sister he had received a smallpox vaccination and that it
                      had taken nearly three weeks for the soreness to go away enough so that he
                      raise his sabre.

                      Teej
                    • Stephen Recker
                      Tom, Tomorrow sounds great. Just name the time and place. That letter sounds like a great find. Thanks. Steve
                      Message 10 of 29 , May 31, 2005
                        Tom,

                        Tomorrow sounds great. Just name the time and place. That letter sounds
                        like a great find. Thanks.

                        Steve


                        On Monday, May 30, 2005, at 09:25 PM, Thomas Clemens wrote:

                        > Steve,
                        > I missed your initial query, but remind me the next time we're together
                        > (tomorrow?) to give you a copy of the typescript of JLC's letter home
                        > describing the march to Sharpsburg and the fight at Shepherdstown. Got
                        > it a while ago form a friend.
                        > Tom
                        >
                        > Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
                        > Professor of History
                        > Hagerstown Community College
                        >
                        >
                        >>>> recker@... 05/30/05 4:39 PM >>>
                        >
                      • richard@rcroker.com
                        I m not sure Mac gave a whit whether units had been tested or not. I seem to recall reading about several of Governor Curtain s Pennsylvania units being sent
                        Message 11 of 29 , May 31, 2005
                          I'm not sure Mac gave a whit whether units had been tested or not. I seem
                          to recall reading about several of Governor Curtain's Pennsylvania units
                          being sent against the Bloody Lane and the West Woods. The 128th PA, for
                          example, was not much more than a month old and got so confused and tangled
                          up trying to maneuver in the heat of battle that they were ordered to
                          attack, just to get them out of the way.

                          I think the 20th Maine was in Porter's Corps which was held in reserve all
                          day. Remember the momentous Porter quotation...
                          "...they are all of your army that remains between this point and
                          Washington. Remember, General. I command the last reserve of the last army
                          of the Republic." The history of TWO nations may have turned in that
                          moment.



                          Richard Croker


                          ----- Original Message -----
                          From: "Donna" <runtoto@...>
                          To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                          Sent: Monday, May 30, 2005 10:11 PM
                          Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Smallpox (was: Where was JLC during the battle?)


                          > Gerry,
                          > I live about 40 mins east of Trenton. The old Barracks was fascinating.
                          The medical talk was great and I never realized that there was actually a
                          science behind their methods. I would have loved to see the recreation. I
                          have never been to the recreation of the crossing of the Delaware.
                          >
                          > That makes a lot of sense on the 20th ME. Does this mean they didn't take
                          any casualties until Fredericksburg?
                          > Donna
                          >
                          > ----- Original Message -----
                          > From: G E Mayers
                          > To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                          > Sent: Monday, May 30, 2005 10:06 PM
                          > Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Smallpox (was: Where was JLC during the
                          battle?)
                          >
                          >
                          > Dear Donna,
                          >
                          > Do you live in NJ? I am about an hour north of Trenton and years ago
                          went
                          > through the Old Barracks one December 266h when there was a re-creation
                          of
                          > part of the Battle of Trenton.
                          >
                          > As to JLC and 20th ME VI, their first actual battle was Fredericksburg.
                          The
                          > 20th ME was part of the overall reserve at Antietam of Porter's V Corps.
                          As
                          > the 20th ME was a very green unit, I doubt Mac would have used them even
                          if
                          > necessary.
                          >
                          > Very respectfully,
                          > G E "Gerry" Mayers
                          > Confederate Signal Corps,
                          > Longstreet's Corps
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > ----- Original Message -----
                          > From: "Donna" <runtoto@...>
                          > To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                          > Sent: Monday, May 30, 2005 9:46 PM
                          > Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Smallpox (was: Where was JLC during the
                          battle?)
                          >
                          >
                          > > Hi Brian Thanks for the welcome.
                          > > My guess is that the inoculations were required. I went through the
                          > > barracks in Trenton and the guide told us that George Washington
                          required
                          > > the troops to be inoculated in the Revolutionary War. I am sure it
                          > > continued. I will look around and see if I can find anything credible
                          > > about the story. It was just one of those things that just stuck in my
                          > > mind.
                          > > Donna
                          > > ----- Original Message -----
                          > > From: bdowney@...
                          > > To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                          > > Sent: Monday, May 30, 2005 9:38 PM
                          > > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Smallpox (was: Where was JLC during the
                          battle?)
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > Hi Donna,
                          > >
                          > > Welcome to the group, it's good to see fresh activity.
                          > >
                          > > This is fascinating stuff about the 20th Maine and smallpox. Do you
                          > > remember the
                          > > source? A fine anecdote, if true. I'd love to use it ... if it's
                          > > documented reliably.
                          > >
                          > > Were smallpox inoculations common among the troops during the War?
                          I've
                          > > not seen
                          > > mention of this before, but then, my memory goes sometimes ...
                          > >
                          > > Brian
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > > I am new to this list.
                          > > > I had read that the 20 ME had just received their inoculations for
                          > > > small pox and were in isolation because the serum was bad, and
                          > > > Chamberlain was with that group. I have no idea if that statement
                          is
                          > > > valid.
                          > > > Donna
                          > > >
                          > > > -------------- Original message --------------
                          > > > Where was Joshua Lawrence Chamberlain during the Battle of
                          Antietam?
                          > > > Thanks.
                          > > >
                          > > > Stephen Recker
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          > > >
                          > > >
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                        • richard@rcroker.com
                          I just noticed Stephen s address -- so he obviously can chime in on the 128th PA. ... From: Stephen Recker To:
                          Message 12 of 29 , May 31, 2005
                            I just noticed Stephen's address -- so he obviously can chime in on the
                            128th PA.


                            ----- Original Message -----
                            From: "Stephen Recker" <recker@...>
                            To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                            Sent: Monday, May 30, 2005 4:39 PM
                            Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Where was JLC during the battle?


                            > Thanks all. Interesting stuff.
                            >
                            > Stephen
                            >
                            > On Monday, May 30, 2005, at 01:32 PM, 128thpa@... wrote:
                            >
                            > > Hi Teej! I think you mean LtCol. The Colonel of the 20th Me at
                            > > Antietam and from the start was Adelbert Ames. JLC received his
                            > > promotion to Colonel on May 20, 1863 after Ames was promoted to
                            > > BGeneral.
                            > >
                            > > Paula
                            > >
                            > > -------------- Original message --------------
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >> According to Trulock, "In the Hands of Providence", the 20th Maine was
                            > >> located in reserve protecting the middle bridge from the Union side.
                            > >> On
                            > >> Sept 18th they were by the lower bridge They actually faced their
                            > >> first
                            > >> real action at Shepardstown. I am sure others have more precise
                            > >> information.
                            > >
                            > > To add what Paula wrote, Chamberlain didn't even receive his
                            > > commission
                            > > as colonel of the 20th Me until August 8, 1862 which means he only had
                            > > been
                            > > in command for approximately five weeks before Antietam.
                            > >
                            > > Regards,
                            > > Teej
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
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                            > >
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                            > >
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                          • Harry Smeltzer
                            There were in fact quite a few untested Union regiments which saw action at Antietam; the 13th NJ and the 16th CT come to mind. Some performed alright,
                            Message 13 of 29 , May 31, 2005
                              There were in fact quite a few "untested" Union regiments which saw action
                              at Antietam; the 13th NJ and the 16th CT come to mind. Some performed
                              alright, others not so well.



                              By contrast, each and every Confederate infantry regiment at Antietam had
                              seen at least one major battle prior to the Maryland Campaign - 19% had been
                              in only one battle, 81% had been in two or more, and 60% had been in three
                              or more.



                              Harry



                              -----Original Message-----
                              From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com] On
                              Behalf Of richard@...
                              Sent: Tuesday, May 31, 2005 7:52 AM
                              To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                              Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Smallpox (was: Where was JLC during the battle?)



                              I'm not sure Mac gave a whit whether units had been tested or not. I seem
                              to recall reading about several of Governor Curtain's Pennsylvania units
                              being sent against the Bloody Lane and the West Woods. The 128th PA, for
                              example, was not much more than a month old and got so confused and tangled
                              up trying to maneuver in the heat of battle that they were ordered to
                              attack, just to get them out of the way.

                              I think the 20th Maine was in Porter's Corps which was held in reserve all
                              day. Remember the momentous Porter quotation...
                              "...they are all of your army that remains between this point and
                              Washington. Remember, General. I command the last reserve of the last army
                              of the Republic." The history of TWO nations may have turned in that
                              moment.



                              Richard Croker


                              ----- Original Message -----
                              From: "Donna" <runtoto@...>
                              To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                              Sent: Monday, May 30, 2005 10:11 PM
                              Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Smallpox (was: Where was JLC during the battle?)


                              > Gerry,
                              > I live about 40 mins east of Trenton. The old Barracks was fascinating.
                              The medical talk was great and I never realized that there was actually a
                              science behind their methods. I would have loved to see the recreation. I
                              have never been to the recreation of the crossing of the Delaware.
                              >
                              > That makes a lot of sense on the 20th ME. Does this mean they didn't take
                              any casualties until Fredericksburg?
                              > Donna
                              >
                              > ----- Original Message -----
                              > From: G E Mayers
                              > To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                              > Sent: Monday, May 30, 2005 10:06 PM
                              > Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Smallpox (was: Where was JLC during the
                              battle?)
                              >
                              >
                              > Dear Donna,
                              >
                              > Do you live in NJ? I am about an hour north of Trenton and years ago
                              went
                              > through the Old Barracks one December 266h when there was a re-creation
                              of
                              > part of the Battle of Trenton.
                              >
                              > As to JLC and 20th ME VI, their first actual battle was Fredericksburg.
                              The
                              > 20th ME was part of the overall reserve at Antietam of Porter's V Corps.
                              As
                              > the 20th ME was a very green unit, I doubt Mac would have used them even
                              if
                              > necessary.
                              >
                              > Very respectfully,
                              > G E "Gerry" Mayers
                              > Confederate Signal Corps,
                              > Longstreet's Corps
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > ----- Original Message -----
                              > From: "Donna" <runtoto@...>
                              > To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                              > Sent: Monday, May 30, 2005 9:46 PM
                              > Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Smallpox (was: Where was JLC during the
                              battle?)
                              >
                              >
                              > > Hi Brian Thanks for the welcome.
                              > > My guess is that the inoculations were required. I went through the
                              > > barracks in Trenton and the guide told us that George Washington
                              required
                              > > the troops to be inoculated in the Revolutionary War. I am sure it
                              > > continued. I will look around and see if I can find anything credible
                              > > about the story. It was just one of those things that just stuck in my
                              > > mind.
                              > > Donna
                              > > ----- Original Message -----
                              > > From: bdowney@...
                              > > To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                              > > Sent: Monday, May 30, 2005 9:38 PM
                              > > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Smallpox (was: Where was JLC during the
                              battle?)
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > Hi Donna,
                              > >
                              > > Welcome to the group, it's good to see fresh activity.
                              > >
                              > > This is fascinating stuff about the 20th Maine and smallpox. Do you
                              > > remember the
                              > > source? A fine anecdote, if true. I'd love to use it ... if it's
                              > > documented reliably.
                              > >
                              > > Were smallpox inoculations common among the troops during the War?
                              I've
                              > > not seen
                              > > mention of this before, but then, my memory goes sometimes ...
                              > >
                              > > Brian
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > > I am new to this list.
                              > > > I had read that the 20 ME had just received their inoculations for
                              > > > small pox and were in isolation because the serum was bad, and
                              > > > Chamberlain was with that group. I have no idea if that statement
                              is
                              > > > valid.
                              > > > Donna
                              > > >
                              > > > -------------- Original message --------------
                              > > > Where was Joshua Lawrence Chamberlain during the Battle of
                              Antietam?
                              > > > Thanks.
                              > > >
                              > > > Stephen Recker
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
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                              own
                              > > > computers. At Network for Good, help bridge the Digital Divide!
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                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              >


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                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • Stephen Recker
                              I have been reading the micro-history Disaster in the West Woods . It knocks Sumner for sending Sedgwick across the Cornfield into the West Woods in Brigade
                              Message 14 of 29 , May 31, 2005
                                I have been reading the micro-history "Disaster in the West Woods". It
                                knocks Sumner for sending Sedgwick across the Cornfield into the West
                                Woods in Brigade Front formation.

                                Not being a military guy myself, I was wondering what formation
                                would've been better. The book points out the deficiencies of the
                                chosen formation but doesn't offer an alternative. Any thoughts? Thanks.

                                Stephen Recker
                              • G E Mayers
                                Harry and Richard, IIRC, in Sounding the Shallows, Harsh has a table showing the number of battles the various divisions, etc had been in. Most impressive.
                                Message 15 of 29 , May 31, 2005
                                  Harry and Richard,

                                  IIRC, in Sounding the Shallows, Harsh has a table showing the number of
                                  battles the various divisions, etc had been in. Most impressive.

                                  Very respectfully,
                                  G E "Gerry" Mayers
                                  Confederate Signal Corps,
                                  Longstreet's Corps



                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                  From: "Harry Smeltzer" <hjs21@...>
                                  To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                                  Sent: Tuesday, May 31, 2005 9:24 AM
                                  Subject: RE: [TalkAntietam] Smallpox (was: Where was JLC during the battle?)


                                  > There were in fact quite a few "untested" Union regiments which saw action
                                  > at Antietam; the 13th NJ and the 16th CT come to mind. Some performed
                                  > alright, others not so well.
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > By contrast, each and every Confederate infantry regiment at Antietam had
                                  > seen at least one major battle prior to the Maryland Campaign - 19% had
                                  > been
                                  > in only one battle, 81% had been in two or more, and 60% had been in three
                                  > or more.
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > Harry
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > -----Original Message-----
                                  > From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com]
                                  > On
                                  > Behalf Of richard@...
                                  > Sent: Tuesday, May 31, 2005 7:52 AM
                                  > To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                                  > Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Smallpox (was: Where was JLC during the
                                  > battle?)
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > I'm not sure Mac gave a whit whether units had been tested or not. I seem
                                  > to recall reading about several of Governor Curtain's Pennsylvania units
                                  > being sent against the Bloody Lane and the West Woods. The 128th PA, for
                                  > example, was not much more than a month old and got so confused and
                                  > tangled
                                  > up trying to maneuver in the heat of battle that they were ordered to
                                  > attack, just to get them out of the way.
                                  >
                                  > I think the 20th Maine was in Porter's Corps which was held in reserve all
                                  > day. Remember the momentous Porter quotation...
                                  > "...they are all of your army that remains between this point and
                                  > Washington. Remember, General. I command the last reserve of the last
                                  > army
                                  > of the Republic." The history of TWO nations may have turned in that
                                  > moment.
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > Richard Croker
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > ----- Original Message -----
                                  > From: "Donna" <runtoto@...>
                                  > To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                                  > Sent: Monday, May 30, 2005 10:11 PM
                                  > Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Smallpox (was: Where was JLC during the
                                  > battle?)
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >> Gerry,
                                  >> I live about 40 mins east of Trenton. The old Barracks was fascinating.
                                  > The medical talk was great and I never realized that there was actually a
                                  > science behind their methods. I would have loved to see the recreation. I
                                  > have never been to the recreation of the crossing of the Delaware.
                                  >>
                                  >> That makes a lot of sense on the 20th ME. Does this mean they didn't take
                                  > any casualties until Fredericksburg?
                                  >> Donna
                                  >>
                                  >> ----- Original Message -----
                                  >> From: G E Mayers
                                  >> To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                                  >> Sent: Monday, May 30, 2005 10:06 PM
                                  >> Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Smallpox (was: Where was JLC during the
                                  > battle?)
                                  >>
                                  >>
                                  >> Dear Donna,
                                  >>
                                  >> Do you live in NJ? I am about an hour north of Trenton and years ago
                                  > went
                                  >> through the Old Barracks one December 266h when there was a re-creation
                                  > of
                                  >> part of the Battle of Trenton.
                                  >>
                                  >> As to JLC and 20th ME VI, their first actual battle was Fredericksburg.
                                  > The
                                  >> 20th ME was part of the overall reserve at Antietam of Porter's V
                                  >> Corps.
                                  > As
                                  >> the 20th ME was a very green unit, I doubt Mac would have used them
                                  >> even
                                  > if
                                  >> necessary.
                                  >>
                                  >> Very respectfully,
                                  >> G E "Gerry" Mayers
                                  >> Confederate Signal Corps,
                                  >> Longstreet's Corps
                                  >>
                                  >>
                                  >>
                                  >> ----- Original Message -----
                                  >> From: "Donna" <runtoto@...>
                                  >> To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                                  >> Sent: Monday, May 30, 2005 9:46 PM
                                  >> Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Smallpox (was: Where was JLC during the
                                  > battle?)
                                  >>
                                  >>
                                  >> > Hi Brian Thanks for the welcome.
                                  >> > My guess is that the inoculations were required. I went through the
                                  >> > barracks in Trenton and the guide told us that George Washington
                                  > required
                                  >> > the troops to be inoculated in the Revolutionary War. I am sure it
                                  >> > continued. I will look around and see if I can find anything credible
                                  >> > about the story. It was just one of those things that just stuck in
                                  >> my
                                  >> > mind.
                                  >> > Donna
                                  >> > ----- Original Message -----
                                  >> > From: bdowney@...
                                  >> > To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                                  >> > Sent: Monday, May 30, 2005 9:38 PM
                                  >> > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Smallpox (was: Where was JLC during the
                                  > battle?)
                                  >> >
                                  >> >
                                  >> > Hi Donna,
                                  >> >
                                  >> > Welcome to the group, it's good to see fresh activity.
                                  >> >
                                  >> > This is fascinating stuff about the 20th Maine and smallpox. Do you
                                  >> > remember the
                                  >> > source? A fine anecdote, if true. I'd love to use it ... if it's
                                  >> > documented reliably.
                                  >> >
                                  >> > Were smallpox inoculations common among the troops during the War?
                                  > I've
                                  >> > not seen
                                  >> > mention of this before, but then, my memory goes sometimes ...
                                  >> >
                                  >> > Brian
                                  >> >
                                  >> >
                                  >> > > I am new to this list.
                                  >> > > I had read that the 20 ME had just received their inoculations
                                  >> for
                                  >> > > small pox and were in isolation because the serum was bad, and
                                  >> > > Chamberlain was with that group. I have no idea if that statement
                                  > is
                                  >> > > valid.
                                  >> > > Donna
                                  >> > >
                                  >> > > -------------- Original message --------------
                                  >> > > Where was Joshua Lawrence Chamberlain during the Battle of
                                  > Antietam?
                                  >> > > Thanks.
                                  >> > >
                                  >> > > Stephen Recker
                                  >> > >
                                  >> > >
                                  >> > >
                                  >> > >
                                  >> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  >> > >
                                  >> > >
                                  >> > >
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                                • G E Mayers
                                  Stephen, What Sumner wanted Sedgwick to do would have worked if: 1. Proper recon had been done previously; 2. Flankers and skirmishers on both sides and in the
                                  Message 16 of 29 , May 31, 2005
                                    Stephen,

                                    What Sumner wanted Sedgwick to do would have worked if:

                                    1. Proper recon had been done previously;
                                    2. Flankers and skirmishers on both sides and in the front;
                                    3. While I suspect Sumner had Sedgwick use the proper interval spacing
                                    between the brigades, I think the brigade battle line would have been
                                    sufficient had enough room been there for maneuver.
                                    4. Other than the brigade battle line, perhaps marching in column front with
                                    flankers to each side and skirmishers in front might have worked.

                                    But we will never know.............

                                    Very respectfully,
                                    G E "Gerry" Mayers
                                    Confederate Signal Corps,
                                    Longstreet's Corps



                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                    From: "Stephen Recker" <recker@...>
                                    To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                                    Sent: Tuesday, May 31, 2005 10:39 AM
                                    Subject: [TalkAntietam] What if not Brigade Front?


                                    >I have been reading the micro-history "Disaster in the West Woods". It
                                    > knocks Sumner for sending Sedgwick across the Cornfield into the West
                                    > Woods in Brigade Front formation.
                                    >
                                    > Not being a military guy myself, I was wondering what formation
                                    > would've been better. The book points out the deficiencies of the
                                    > chosen formation but doesn't offer an alternative. Any thoughts? Thanks.
                                    >
                                    > Stephen Recker
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
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                                  • Thomas Clemens
                                    I know John was trying to get you for a tour @ 1:00 today, see you there? Thomas G. Clemens D.A. Professor of History Hagerstown Community College [Non-text
                                    Message 17 of 29 , May 31, 2005
                                      I know John was trying to get you for a tour @ 1:00 today, see you
                                      there?

                                      Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
                                      Professor of History
                                      Hagerstown Community College




                                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    • Stephen Recker
                                      I hadn t heard anything about that until I called John about something different and I guess he already handled it. Too bad. I had something I could ve
                                      Message 18 of 29 , May 31, 2005
                                        I hadn't heard anything about that until I called John about something
                                        different and I guess he already handled it. Too bad. I had something I
                                        could've cancelled but I have something else at 1pm today. See you
                                        later, I guess. Have a blast out there today. Gorgeous weather.

                                        Stephen




                                        On Tuesday, May 31, 2005, at 10:45 AM, Thomas Clemens wrote:

                                        > I know John was trying to get you for a tour @ 1:00 today, see you
                                        > there?
                                      • Stephen Bockmiller
                                        Tom... Any reference to Middletown in that letter? Steve Bockmiller ... __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam?
                                        Message 19 of 29 , May 31, 2005
                                          Tom...

                                          Any reference to Middletown in that letter?

                                          Steve Bockmiller

                                          --- Thomas Clemens <clemenst@...> wrote:
                                          > Steve,
                                          > I missed your initial query, but remind me the next
                                          > time we're together
                                          > (tomorrow?) to give you a copy of the typescript of
                                          > JLC's letter home
                                          > describing the march to Sharpsburg and the fight at
                                          > Shepherdstown. Got
                                          > it a while ago form a friend.
                                          > Tom
                                          >
                                          > Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
                                          > Professor of History
                                          > Hagerstown Community College
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > >>> recker@... 05/30/05 4:39 PM
                                          > >>>
                                          >
                                          >

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