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Re: [TalkAntietam] Where was JLC during the battle?

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  • Thomas Clemens
    Steve, I missed your initial query, but remind me the next time we re together (tomorrow?) to give you a copy of the typescript of JLC s letter home describing
    Message 1 of 29 , May 30, 2005
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      Steve,
      I missed your initial query, but remind me the next time we're together
      (tomorrow?) to give you a copy of the typescript of JLC's letter home
      describing the march to Sharpsburg and the fight at Shepherdstown. Got
      it a while ago form a friend.
      Tom

      Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
      Professor of History
      Hagerstown Community College


      >>> recker@... 05/30/05 4:39 PM >>>
    • bdowney@aotw.org
      Hi Donna, Welcome to the group, it s good to see fresh activity. This is fascinating stuff about the 20th Maine and smallpox. Do you remember the source? A
      Message 2 of 29 , May 30, 2005
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        Hi Donna,

        Welcome to the group, it's good to see fresh activity.

        This is fascinating stuff about the 20th Maine and smallpox. Do you remember the
        source? A fine anecdote, if true. I'd love to use it ... if it's documented reliably.

        Were smallpox inoculations common among the troops during the War? I've not seen
        mention of this before, but then, my memory goes sometimes ...

        Brian


        > I am new to this list.
        > I had read that the 20 ME had just received their inoculations for
        > small pox and were in isolation because the serum was bad, and
        > Chamberlain was with that group. I have no idea if that statement is
        > valid.
        > Donna
        >
        > -------------- Original message --------------
        > Where was Joshua Lawrence Chamberlain during the Battle of Antietam?
        > Thanks.
        >
        > Stephen Recker
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
        >
        >
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      • richard@rcroker.com
        And speaking of inoculations -- I went to a lecture last week and this college professor said that on occasion inoculations were given by cutting the recipient
        Message 3 of 29 , May 30, 2005
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          And speaking of inoculations --

          I went to a lecture last week and this college professor said that on
          occasion inoculations were given by cutting the recipient and covering the
          wound with a SCAB from an infected person! Okay -- all together now --
          YUCK!

          In actuality -- I guess that was pretty advanced science for the day.

          ----- Original Message -----
          From: "Donna" <runtoto@...>
          To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Monday, May 30, 2005 8:19 PM
          Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Where was JLC during the battle?


          > I am new to this list.
          > I had read that the 20 ME had just received their inoculations for small
          pox and were in isolation because the serum was bad, and Chamberlain was
          with that group. I have no idea if that statement is valid.
          > Donna
          >
          > -------------- Original message --------------
          > Where was Joshua Lawrence Chamberlain during the Battle of Antietam?
          > Thanks.
          >
          > Stephen Recker
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
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          >
        • Donna
          Hi Brian Thanks for the welcome. My guess is that the inoculations were required. I went through the barracks in Trenton and the guide told us that George
          Message 4 of 29 , May 30, 2005
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            Hi Brian Thanks for the welcome.
            My guess is that the inoculations were required. I went through the barracks in Trenton and the guide told us that George Washington required the troops to be inoculated in the Revolutionary War. I am sure it continued. I will look around and see if I can find anything credible about the story. It was just one of those things that just stuck in my mind.
            Donna
            ----- Original Message -----
            From: bdowney@...
            To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Monday, May 30, 2005 9:38 PM
            Subject: [TalkAntietam] Smallpox (was: Where was JLC during the battle?)


            Hi Donna,

            Welcome to the group, it's good to see fresh activity.

            This is fascinating stuff about the 20th Maine and smallpox. Do you remember the
            source? A fine anecdote, if true. I'd love to use it ... if it's documented reliably.

            Were smallpox inoculations common among the troops during the War? I've not seen
            mention of this before, but then, my memory goes sometimes ...

            Brian


            > I am new to this list.
            > I had read that the 20 ME had just received their inoculations for
            > small pox and were in isolation because the serum was bad, and
            > Chamberlain was with that group. I have no idea if that statement is
            > valid.
            > Donna
            >
            > -------------- Original message --------------
            > Where was Joshua Lawrence Chamberlain during the Battle of Antietam?
            > Thanks.
            >
            > Stephen Recker
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
            >
            >
            > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
            > --------------------~--> In low income neighborhoods, 84% do not own
            > computers. At Network for Good, help bridge the Digital Divide!
            > http://us.click.yahoo.com/S.QlOD/3MnJAA/Zx0JAA/GmiolB/TM
            > --------------------------------------------------------------------~-
            > >
            >
            >
            >
            > Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >









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            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Harry Smeltzer
            I ve heard this story as well, but for some reason associate it with Chancellorsville and not Antietam. Harry ... From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
            Message 5 of 29 , May 30, 2005
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              I've heard this story as well, but for some reason associate it with
              Chancellorsville and not Antietam.



              Harry



              -----Original Message-----
              From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com] On
              Behalf Of Donna
              Sent: Monday, May 30, 2005 8:46 PM
              To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Smallpox (was: Where was JLC during the battle?)



              Hi Brian Thanks for the welcome.
              My guess is that the inoculations were required. I went through the barracks
              in Trenton and the guide told us that George Washington required the troops
              to be inoculated in the Revolutionary War. I am sure it continued. I will
              look around and see if I can find anything credible about the story. It was
              just one of those things that just stuck in my mind.
              Donna
              ----- Original Message -----
              From: bdowney@...
              To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Monday, May 30, 2005 9:38 PM
              Subject: [TalkAntietam] Smallpox (was: Where was JLC during the battle?)


              Hi Donna,

              Welcome to the group, it's good to see fresh activity.

              This is fascinating stuff about the 20th Maine and smallpox. Do you
              remember the
              source? A fine anecdote, if true. I'd love to use it ... if it's
              documented reliably.

              Were smallpox inoculations common among the troops during the War? I've
              not seen
              mention of this before, but then, my memory goes sometimes ...

              Brian


              > I am new to this list.
              > I had read that the 20 ME had just received their inoculations for
              > small pox and were in isolation because the serum was bad, and
              > Chamberlain was with that group. I have no idea if that statement is
              > valid.
              > Donna
              >
              > -------------- Original message --------------
              > Where was Joshua Lawrence Chamberlain during the Battle of Antietam?
              > Thanks.
              >
              > Stephen Recker
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              >
              >
              > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
              > --------------------~--> In low income neighborhoods, 84% do not own
              > computers. At Network for Good, help bridge the Digital Divide!
              > http://us.click.yahoo.com/S.QlOD/3MnJAA/Zx0JAA/GmiolB/TM
              > --------------------------------------------------------------------~-
              > >
              >
              >
              >
              > Yahoo! Groups Links
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >









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              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Donna
              I am wrong. The small pox inoculations were given to the 20th Maine prior to Chancellorsville not Antietam. Sorry for the confusion. Donna BTW. In the early
              Message 6 of 29 , May 30, 2005
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                I am wrong. The small pox inoculations were given to the 20th Maine prior to Chancellorsville not Antietam. Sorry for the confusion.
                Donna

                BTW. In the early days, a person was inoculated in the following way. A thread was drawn through the pustule of an infected patient then drawn through the skin of a healthy patient. The science was the same as today, that the individual would develop a resistance to a given virus. Sometimes an individual developed the disease, but the numbers were definitely in the favor of inoculation.
                Donna
                > -------------- Original message --------------
                > Where was Joshua Lawrence Chamberlain during the Battle of Antietam?
                > Thanks.
                >
                > Stephen Recker
                >
                >
                >


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • G E Mayers
                Dear Donna, Do you live in NJ? I am about an hour north of Trenton and years ago went through the Old Barracks one December 266h when there was a re-creation
                Message 7 of 29 , May 30, 2005
                • 0 Attachment
                  Dear Donna,

                  Do you live in NJ? I am about an hour north of Trenton and years ago went
                  through the Old Barracks one December 266h when there was a re-creation of
                  part of the Battle of Trenton.

                  As to JLC and 20th ME VI, their first actual battle was Fredericksburg. The
                  20th ME was part of the overall reserve at Antietam of Porter's V Corps. As
                  the 20th ME was a very green unit, I doubt Mac would have used them even if
                  necessary.

                  Very respectfully,
                  G E "Gerry" Mayers
                  Confederate Signal Corps,
                  Longstreet's Corps



                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: "Donna" <runtoto@...>
                  To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                  Sent: Monday, May 30, 2005 9:46 PM
                  Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Smallpox (was: Where was JLC during the battle?)


                  > Hi Brian Thanks for the welcome.
                  > My guess is that the inoculations were required. I went through the
                  > barracks in Trenton and the guide told us that George Washington required
                  > the troops to be inoculated in the Revolutionary War. I am sure it
                  > continued. I will look around and see if I can find anything credible
                  > about the story. It was just one of those things that just stuck in my
                  > mind.
                  > Donna
                  > ----- Original Message -----
                  > From: bdowney@...
                  > To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                  > Sent: Monday, May 30, 2005 9:38 PM
                  > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Smallpox (was: Where was JLC during the battle?)
                  >
                  >
                  > Hi Donna,
                  >
                  > Welcome to the group, it's good to see fresh activity.
                  >
                  > This is fascinating stuff about the 20th Maine and smallpox. Do you
                  > remember the
                  > source? A fine anecdote, if true. I'd love to use it ... if it's
                  > documented reliably.
                  >
                  > Were smallpox inoculations common among the troops during the War? I've
                  > not seen
                  > mention of this before, but then, my memory goes sometimes ...
                  >
                  > Brian
                  >
                  >
                  > > I am new to this list.
                  > > I had read that the 20 ME had just received their inoculations for
                  > > small pox and were in isolation because the serum was bad, and
                  > > Chamberlain was with that group. I have no idea if that statement is
                  > > valid.
                  > > Donna
                  > >
                  > > -------------- Original message --------------
                  > > Where was Joshua Lawrence Chamberlain during the Battle of Antietam?
                  > > Thanks.
                  > >
                  > > Stephen Recker
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                  > > --------------------~--> In low income neighborhoods, 84% do not own
                  > > computers. At Network for Good, help bridge the Digital Divide!
                  > > http://us.click.yahoo.com/S.QlOD/3MnJAA/Zx0JAA/GmiolB/TM
                  > > --------------------------------------------------------------------~-
                  > > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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                  >
                  > a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
                  > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TalkAntietam/
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                • Donna
                  Gerry, I live about 40 mins east of Trenton. The old Barracks was fascinating. The medical talk was great and I never realized that there was actually a
                  Message 8 of 29 , May 30, 2005
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                    Gerry,
                    I live about 40 mins east of Trenton. The old Barracks was fascinating. The medical talk was great and I never realized that there was actually a science behind their methods. I would have loved to see the recreation. I have never been to the recreation of the crossing of the Delaware.

                    That makes a lot of sense on the 20th ME. Does this mean they didn't take any casualties until Fredericksburg?
                    Donna

                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: G E Mayers
                    To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Monday, May 30, 2005 10:06 PM
                    Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Smallpox (was: Where was JLC during the battle?)


                    Dear Donna,

                    Do you live in NJ? I am about an hour north of Trenton and years ago went
                    through the Old Barracks one December 266h when there was a re-creation of
                    part of the Battle of Trenton.

                    As to JLC and 20th ME VI, their first actual battle was Fredericksburg. The
                    20th ME was part of the overall reserve at Antietam of Porter's V Corps. As
                    the 20th ME was a very green unit, I doubt Mac would have used them even if
                    necessary.

                    Very respectfully,
                    G E "Gerry" Mayers
                    Confederate Signal Corps,
                    Longstreet's Corps



                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: "Donna" <runtoto@...>
                    To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                    Sent: Monday, May 30, 2005 9:46 PM
                    Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Smallpox (was: Where was JLC during the battle?)


                    > Hi Brian Thanks for the welcome.
                    > My guess is that the inoculations were required. I went through the
                    > barracks in Trenton and the guide told us that George Washington required
                    > the troops to be inoculated in the Revolutionary War. I am sure it
                    > continued. I will look around and see if I can find anything credible
                    > about the story. It was just one of those things that just stuck in my
                    > mind.
                    > Donna
                    > ----- Original Message -----
                    > From: bdowney@...
                    > To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                    > Sent: Monday, May 30, 2005 9:38 PM
                    > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Smallpox (was: Where was JLC during the battle?)
                    >
                    >
                    > Hi Donna,
                    >
                    > Welcome to the group, it's good to see fresh activity.
                    >
                    > This is fascinating stuff about the 20th Maine and smallpox. Do you
                    > remember the
                    > source? A fine anecdote, if true. I'd love to use it ... if it's
                    > documented reliably.
                    >
                    > Were smallpox inoculations common among the troops during the War? I've
                    > not seen
                    > mention of this before, but then, my memory goes sometimes ...
                    >
                    > Brian
                    >
                    >
                    > > I am new to this list.
                    > > I had read that the 20 ME had just received their inoculations for
                    > > small pox and were in isolation because the serum was bad, and
                    > > Chamberlain was with that group. I have no idea if that statement is
                    > > valid.
                    > > Donna
                    > >
                    > > -------------- Original message --------------
                    > > Where was Joshua Lawrence Chamberlain during the Battle of Antietam?
                    > > Thanks.
                    > >
                    > > Stephen Recker
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                    > > --------------------~--> In low income neighborhoods, 84% do not own
                    > > computers. At Network for Good, help bridge the Digital Divide!
                    > > http://us.click.yahoo.com/S.QlOD/3MnJAA/Zx0JAA/GmiolB/TM
                    > > --------------------------------------------------------------------~-
                    > > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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                    >
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                    > a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
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                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • G E Mayers
                    Dear Donna, Re 20th ME and Fredericksburg question. I do not recall from what I have read, mostly in Pullen s book, whether the 20th ME took casualties prior
                    Message 9 of 29 , May 30, 2005
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                      Dear Donna,

                      Re 20th ME and Fredericksburg question. I do not recall from what I have
                      read, mostly in Pullen's book, whether the 20th ME took casualties prior to
                      Fredericksburg. However, Fredericksburg certainly was their baptism of fire
                      in an organized sense.

                      Very respectfully,
                      G E "Gerry" Mayers
                      Confederate Signal Corps,
                      Longstreet's Corps



                      ----- Original Message -----
                      From: "Donna" <runtoto@...>
                      To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                      Sent: Monday, May 30, 2005 10:11 PM
                      Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Smallpox (was: Where was JLC during the battle?)


                      > Gerry,
                      > I live about 40 mins east of Trenton. The old Barracks was fascinating.
                      > The medical talk was great and I never realized that there was actually a
                      > science behind their methods. I would have loved to see the recreation. I
                      > have never been to the recreation of the crossing of the Delaware.
                      >
                      > That makes a lot of sense on the 20th ME. Does this mean they didn't take
                      > any casualties until Fredericksburg?
                      > Donna
                      >
                      > ----- Original Message -----
                      > From: G E Mayers
                      > To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                      > Sent: Monday, May 30, 2005 10:06 PM
                      > Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Smallpox (was: Where was JLC during the
                      > battle?)
                      >
                      >
                      > Dear Donna,
                      >
                      > Do you live in NJ? I am about an hour north of Trenton and years ago went
                      > through the Old Barracks one December 266h when there was a re-creation
                      > of
                      > part of the Battle of Trenton.
                      >
                      > As to JLC and 20th ME VI, their first actual battle was Fredericksburg.
                      > The
                      > 20th ME was part of the overall reserve at Antietam of Porter's V Corps.
                      > As
                      > the 20th ME was a very green unit, I doubt Mac would have used them even
                      > if
                      > necessary.
                      >
                      > Very respectfully,
                      > G E "Gerry" Mayers
                      > Confederate Signal Corps,
                      > Longstreet's Corps
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > ----- Original Message -----
                      > From: "Donna" <runtoto@...>
                      > To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                      > Sent: Monday, May 30, 2005 9:46 PM
                      > Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Smallpox (was: Where was JLC during the
                      > battle?)
                      >
                      >
                      > > Hi Brian Thanks for the welcome.
                      > > My guess is that the inoculations were required. I went through the
                      > > barracks in Trenton and the guide told us that George Washington
                      > required
                      > > the troops to be inoculated in the Revolutionary War. I am sure it
                      > > continued. I will look around and see if I can find anything credible
                      > > about the story. It was just one of those things that just stuck in my
                      > > mind.
                      > > Donna
                      > > ----- Original Message -----
                      > > From: bdowney@...
                      > > To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                      > > Sent: Monday, May 30, 2005 9:38 PM
                      > > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Smallpox (was: Where was JLC during the
                      > battle?)
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > Hi Donna,
                      > >
                      > > Welcome to the group, it's good to see fresh activity.
                      > >
                      > > This is fascinating stuff about the 20th Maine and smallpox. Do you
                      > > remember the
                      > > source? A fine anecdote, if true. I'd love to use it ... if it's
                      > > documented reliably.
                      > >
                      > > Were smallpox inoculations common among the troops during the War?
                      > I've
                      > > not seen
                      > > mention of this before, but then, my memory goes sometimes ...
                      > >
                      > > Brian
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > > I am new to this list.
                      > > > I had read that the 20 ME had just received their inoculations for
                      > > > small pox and were in isolation because the serum was bad, and
                      > > > Chamberlain was with that group. I have no idea if that statement
                      > is
                      > > > valid.
                      > > > Donna
                      > > >
                      > > > -------------- Original message --------------
                      > > > Where was Joshua Lawrence Chamberlain during the Battle of
                      > Antietam?
                      > > > Thanks.
                      > > >
                      > > > Stephen Recker
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                      > > > --------------------~--> In low income neighborhoods, 84% do not own
                      > > > computers. At Network for Good, help bridge the Digital Divide!
                      > > > http://us.click.yahoo.com/S.QlOD/3MnJAA/Zx0JAA/GmiolB/TM
                      > >
                      > > --------------------------------------------------------------------~-
                      > > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                      > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                      > >
                      > > a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
                      > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TalkAntietam/
                      > >
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                      > >
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                      > > Service.
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                      > >
                      > >
                      > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      > >
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                      > >
                      > >
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                    • Teej Smith
                      ... More than you probably wanted to know about smallpox inoculations. U.S. army regulation 1299 issued in 1863 As soon as a recruit joins any regiment or
                      Message 10 of 29 , May 30, 2005
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                        Brian Downey wrote:


                        >
                        > Were smallpox inoculations common among the troops during the War? I've
                        > not seen
                        > mention of this before, but then, my memory goes sometimes ...

                        More than you probably wanted to know about smallpox inoculations. U.S.
                        army regulation 1299 issued in 1863 "As soon as a recruit joins any regiment
                        or station, he shall be examined by the medical officer, and vaccinated when
                        it is required. [Vaccination was required if there was no scar documenting
                        previous vaccination." This taken from "Civil War Medicine: Challenges and
                        Triumphs" by Allen Jay Bollet, M.D. According to Dr. Bollet this regulation
                        was not always enforced and that the soldier often feared the inoculation as
                        much as he feared the disease. Sometimes the serum used was ineffective or
                        as in the case of the 20th Maine, tainted. Often the soldiers inoculated
                        each other by using unsterilized knives dipped in the liquid from a lesion.
                        The result was often a severe local infection which, if it went to "blood
                        poisoning," could cause the need for amputation or even death. Apparently
                        the Confederate soldier was more likely to develop an infection because of
                        poor diet.
                        I have a letter from a Confederate lieutenant stationed in Tennessee in
                        which he told his sister he had received a smallpox vaccination and that it
                        had taken nearly three weeks for the soreness to go away enough so that he
                        raise his sabre.

                        Teej
                      • Stephen Recker
                        Tom, Tomorrow sounds great. Just name the time and place. That letter sounds like a great find. Thanks. Steve
                        Message 11 of 29 , May 31, 2005
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                          Tom,

                          Tomorrow sounds great. Just name the time and place. That letter sounds
                          like a great find. Thanks.

                          Steve


                          On Monday, May 30, 2005, at 09:25 PM, Thomas Clemens wrote:

                          > Steve,
                          > I missed your initial query, but remind me the next time we're together
                          > (tomorrow?) to give you a copy of the typescript of JLC's letter home
                          > describing the march to Sharpsburg and the fight at Shepherdstown. Got
                          > it a while ago form a friend.
                          > Tom
                          >
                          > Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
                          > Professor of History
                          > Hagerstown Community College
                          >
                          >
                          >>>> recker@... 05/30/05 4:39 PM >>>
                          >
                        • richard@rcroker.com
                          I m not sure Mac gave a whit whether units had been tested or not. I seem to recall reading about several of Governor Curtain s Pennsylvania units being sent
                          Message 12 of 29 , May 31, 2005
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                            I'm not sure Mac gave a whit whether units had been tested or not. I seem
                            to recall reading about several of Governor Curtain's Pennsylvania units
                            being sent against the Bloody Lane and the West Woods. The 128th PA, for
                            example, was not much more than a month old and got so confused and tangled
                            up trying to maneuver in the heat of battle that they were ordered to
                            attack, just to get them out of the way.

                            I think the 20th Maine was in Porter's Corps which was held in reserve all
                            day. Remember the momentous Porter quotation...
                            "...they are all of your army that remains between this point and
                            Washington. Remember, General. I command the last reserve of the last army
                            of the Republic." The history of TWO nations may have turned in that
                            moment.



                            Richard Croker


                            ----- Original Message -----
                            From: "Donna" <runtoto@...>
                            To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                            Sent: Monday, May 30, 2005 10:11 PM
                            Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Smallpox (was: Where was JLC during the battle?)


                            > Gerry,
                            > I live about 40 mins east of Trenton. The old Barracks was fascinating.
                            The medical talk was great and I never realized that there was actually a
                            science behind their methods. I would have loved to see the recreation. I
                            have never been to the recreation of the crossing of the Delaware.
                            >
                            > That makes a lot of sense on the 20th ME. Does this mean they didn't take
                            any casualties until Fredericksburg?
                            > Donna
                            >
                            > ----- Original Message -----
                            > From: G E Mayers
                            > To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                            > Sent: Monday, May 30, 2005 10:06 PM
                            > Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Smallpox (was: Where was JLC during the
                            battle?)
                            >
                            >
                            > Dear Donna,
                            >
                            > Do you live in NJ? I am about an hour north of Trenton and years ago
                            went
                            > through the Old Barracks one December 266h when there was a re-creation
                            of
                            > part of the Battle of Trenton.
                            >
                            > As to JLC and 20th ME VI, their first actual battle was Fredericksburg.
                            The
                            > 20th ME was part of the overall reserve at Antietam of Porter's V Corps.
                            As
                            > the 20th ME was a very green unit, I doubt Mac would have used them even
                            if
                            > necessary.
                            >
                            > Very respectfully,
                            > G E "Gerry" Mayers
                            > Confederate Signal Corps,
                            > Longstreet's Corps
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > ----- Original Message -----
                            > From: "Donna" <runtoto@...>
                            > To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                            > Sent: Monday, May 30, 2005 9:46 PM
                            > Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Smallpox (was: Where was JLC during the
                            battle?)
                            >
                            >
                            > > Hi Brian Thanks for the welcome.
                            > > My guess is that the inoculations were required. I went through the
                            > > barracks in Trenton and the guide told us that George Washington
                            required
                            > > the troops to be inoculated in the Revolutionary War. I am sure it
                            > > continued. I will look around and see if I can find anything credible
                            > > about the story. It was just one of those things that just stuck in my
                            > > mind.
                            > > Donna
                            > > ----- Original Message -----
                            > > From: bdowney@...
                            > > To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                            > > Sent: Monday, May 30, 2005 9:38 PM
                            > > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Smallpox (was: Where was JLC during the
                            battle?)
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > Hi Donna,
                            > >
                            > > Welcome to the group, it's good to see fresh activity.
                            > >
                            > > This is fascinating stuff about the 20th Maine and smallpox. Do you
                            > > remember the
                            > > source? A fine anecdote, if true. I'd love to use it ... if it's
                            > > documented reliably.
                            > >
                            > > Were smallpox inoculations common among the troops during the War?
                            I've
                            > > not seen
                            > > mention of this before, but then, my memory goes sometimes ...
                            > >
                            > > Brian
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > > I am new to this list.
                            > > > I had read that the 20 ME had just received their inoculations for
                            > > > small pox and were in isolation because the serum was bad, and
                            > > > Chamberlain was with that group. I have no idea if that statement
                            is
                            > > > valid.
                            > > > Donna
                            > > >
                            > > > -------------- Original message --------------
                            > > > Where was Joshua Lawrence Chamberlain during the Battle of
                            Antietam?
                            > > > Thanks.
                            > > >
                            > > > Stephen Recker
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
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                          • richard@rcroker.com
                            I just noticed Stephen s address -- so he obviously can chime in on the 128th PA. ... From: Stephen Recker To:
                            Message 13 of 29 , May 31, 2005
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                              I just noticed Stephen's address -- so he obviously can chime in on the
                              128th PA.


                              ----- Original Message -----
                              From: "Stephen Recker" <recker@...>
                              To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                              Sent: Monday, May 30, 2005 4:39 PM
                              Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Where was JLC during the battle?


                              > Thanks all. Interesting stuff.
                              >
                              > Stephen
                              >
                              > On Monday, May 30, 2005, at 01:32 PM, 128thpa@... wrote:
                              >
                              > > Hi Teej! I think you mean LtCol. The Colonel of the 20th Me at
                              > > Antietam and from the start was Adelbert Ames. JLC received his
                              > > promotion to Colonel on May 20, 1863 after Ames was promoted to
                              > > BGeneral.
                              > >
                              > > Paula
                              > >
                              > > -------------- Original message --------------
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >> According to Trulock, "In the Hands of Providence", the 20th Maine was
                              > >> located in reserve protecting the middle bridge from the Union side.
                              > >> On
                              > >> Sept 18th they were by the lower bridge They actually faced their
                              > >> first
                              > >> real action at Shepardstown. I am sure others have more precise
                              > >> information.
                              > >
                              > > To add what Paula wrote, Chamberlain didn't even receive his
                              > > commission
                              > > as colonel of the 20th Me until August 8, 1862 which means he only had
                              > > been
                              > > in command for approximately five weeks before Antietam.
                              > >
                              > > Regards,
                              > > Teej
                              > >
                              > >
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                            • Harry Smeltzer
                              There were in fact quite a few untested Union regiments which saw action at Antietam; the 13th NJ and the 16th CT come to mind. Some performed alright,
                              Message 14 of 29 , May 31, 2005
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                                There were in fact quite a few "untested" Union regiments which saw action
                                at Antietam; the 13th NJ and the 16th CT come to mind. Some performed
                                alright, others not so well.



                                By contrast, each and every Confederate infantry regiment at Antietam had
                                seen at least one major battle prior to the Maryland Campaign - 19% had been
                                in only one battle, 81% had been in two or more, and 60% had been in three
                                or more.



                                Harry



                                -----Original Message-----
                                From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com] On
                                Behalf Of richard@...
                                Sent: Tuesday, May 31, 2005 7:52 AM
                                To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                                Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Smallpox (was: Where was JLC during the battle?)



                                I'm not sure Mac gave a whit whether units had been tested or not. I seem
                                to recall reading about several of Governor Curtain's Pennsylvania units
                                being sent against the Bloody Lane and the West Woods. The 128th PA, for
                                example, was not much more than a month old and got so confused and tangled
                                up trying to maneuver in the heat of battle that they were ordered to
                                attack, just to get them out of the way.

                                I think the 20th Maine was in Porter's Corps which was held in reserve all
                                day. Remember the momentous Porter quotation...
                                "...they are all of your army that remains between this point and
                                Washington. Remember, General. I command the last reserve of the last army
                                of the Republic." The history of TWO nations may have turned in that
                                moment.



                                Richard Croker


                                ----- Original Message -----
                                From: "Donna" <runtoto@...>
                                To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                                Sent: Monday, May 30, 2005 10:11 PM
                                Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Smallpox (was: Where was JLC during the battle?)


                                > Gerry,
                                > I live about 40 mins east of Trenton. The old Barracks was fascinating.
                                The medical talk was great and I never realized that there was actually a
                                science behind their methods. I would have loved to see the recreation. I
                                have never been to the recreation of the crossing of the Delaware.
                                >
                                > That makes a lot of sense on the 20th ME. Does this mean they didn't take
                                any casualties until Fredericksburg?
                                > Donna
                                >
                                > ----- Original Message -----
                                > From: G E Mayers
                                > To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                                > Sent: Monday, May 30, 2005 10:06 PM
                                > Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Smallpox (was: Where was JLC during the
                                battle?)
                                >
                                >
                                > Dear Donna,
                                >
                                > Do you live in NJ? I am about an hour north of Trenton and years ago
                                went
                                > through the Old Barracks one December 266h when there was a re-creation
                                of
                                > part of the Battle of Trenton.
                                >
                                > As to JLC and 20th ME VI, their first actual battle was Fredericksburg.
                                The
                                > 20th ME was part of the overall reserve at Antietam of Porter's V Corps.
                                As
                                > the 20th ME was a very green unit, I doubt Mac would have used them even
                                if
                                > necessary.
                                >
                                > Very respectfully,
                                > G E "Gerry" Mayers
                                > Confederate Signal Corps,
                                > Longstreet's Corps
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > ----- Original Message -----
                                > From: "Donna" <runtoto@...>
                                > To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                                > Sent: Monday, May 30, 2005 9:46 PM
                                > Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Smallpox (was: Where was JLC during the
                                battle?)
                                >
                                >
                                > > Hi Brian Thanks for the welcome.
                                > > My guess is that the inoculations were required. I went through the
                                > > barracks in Trenton and the guide told us that George Washington
                                required
                                > > the troops to be inoculated in the Revolutionary War. I am sure it
                                > > continued. I will look around and see if I can find anything credible
                                > > about the story. It was just one of those things that just stuck in my
                                > > mind.
                                > > Donna
                                > > ----- Original Message -----
                                > > From: bdowney@...
                                > > To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                                > > Sent: Monday, May 30, 2005 9:38 PM
                                > > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Smallpox (was: Where was JLC during the
                                battle?)
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > Hi Donna,
                                > >
                                > > Welcome to the group, it's good to see fresh activity.
                                > >
                                > > This is fascinating stuff about the 20th Maine and smallpox. Do you
                                > > remember the
                                > > source? A fine anecdote, if true. I'd love to use it ... if it's
                                > > documented reliably.
                                > >
                                > > Were smallpox inoculations common among the troops during the War?
                                I've
                                > > not seen
                                > > mention of this before, but then, my memory goes sometimes ...
                                > >
                                > > Brian
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > > I am new to this list.
                                > > > I had read that the 20 ME had just received their inoculations for
                                > > > small pox and were in isolation because the serum was bad, and
                                > > > Chamberlain was with that group. I have no idea if that statement
                                is
                                > > > valid.
                                > > > Donna
                                > > >
                                > > > -------------- Original message --------------
                                > > > Where was Joshua Lawrence Chamberlain during the Battle of
                                Antietam?
                                > > > Thanks.
                                > > >
                                > > > Stephen Recker
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > >
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                              • Stephen Recker
                                I have been reading the micro-history Disaster in the West Woods . It knocks Sumner for sending Sedgwick across the Cornfield into the West Woods in Brigade
                                Message 15 of 29 , May 31, 2005
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                                  I have been reading the micro-history "Disaster in the West Woods". It
                                  knocks Sumner for sending Sedgwick across the Cornfield into the West
                                  Woods in Brigade Front formation.

                                  Not being a military guy myself, I was wondering what formation
                                  would've been better. The book points out the deficiencies of the
                                  chosen formation but doesn't offer an alternative. Any thoughts? Thanks.

                                  Stephen Recker
                                • G E Mayers
                                  Harry and Richard, IIRC, in Sounding the Shallows, Harsh has a table showing the number of battles the various divisions, etc had been in. Most impressive.
                                  Message 16 of 29 , May 31, 2005
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                                    Harry and Richard,

                                    IIRC, in Sounding the Shallows, Harsh has a table showing the number of
                                    battles the various divisions, etc had been in. Most impressive.

                                    Very respectfully,
                                    G E "Gerry" Mayers
                                    Confederate Signal Corps,
                                    Longstreet's Corps



                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                    From: "Harry Smeltzer" <hjs21@...>
                                    To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                                    Sent: Tuesday, May 31, 2005 9:24 AM
                                    Subject: RE: [TalkAntietam] Smallpox (was: Where was JLC during the battle?)


                                    > There were in fact quite a few "untested" Union regiments which saw action
                                    > at Antietam; the 13th NJ and the 16th CT come to mind. Some performed
                                    > alright, others not so well.
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > By contrast, each and every Confederate infantry regiment at Antietam had
                                    > seen at least one major battle prior to the Maryland Campaign - 19% had
                                    > been
                                    > in only one battle, 81% had been in two or more, and 60% had been in three
                                    > or more.
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > Harry
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > -----Original Message-----
                                    > From: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com [mailto:TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com]
                                    > On
                                    > Behalf Of richard@...
                                    > Sent: Tuesday, May 31, 2005 7:52 AM
                                    > To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                                    > Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Smallpox (was: Where was JLC during the
                                    > battle?)
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > I'm not sure Mac gave a whit whether units had been tested or not. I seem
                                    > to recall reading about several of Governor Curtain's Pennsylvania units
                                    > being sent against the Bloody Lane and the West Woods. The 128th PA, for
                                    > example, was not much more than a month old and got so confused and
                                    > tangled
                                    > up trying to maneuver in the heat of battle that they were ordered to
                                    > attack, just to get them out of the way.
                                    >
                                    > I think the 20th Maine was in Porter's Corps which was held in reserve all
                                    > day. Remember the momentous Porter quotation...
                                    > "...they are all of your army that remains between this point and
                                    > Washington. Remember, General. I command the last reserve of the last
                                    > army
                                    > of the Republic." The history of TWO nations may have turned in that
                                    > moment.
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > Richard Croker
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > ----- Original Message -----
                                    > From: "Donna" <runtoto@...>
                                    > To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                                    > Sent: Monday, May 30, 2005 10:11 PM
                                    > Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Smallpox (was: Where was JLC during the
                                    > battle?)
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >> Gerry,
                                    >> I live about 40 mins east of Trenton. The old Barracks was fascinating.
                                    > The medical talk was great and I never realized that there was actually a
                                    > science behind their methods. I would have loved to see the recreation. I
                                    > have never been to the recreation of the crossing of the Delaware.
                                    >>
                                    >> That makes a lot of sense on the 20th ME. Does this mean they didn't take
                                    > any casualties until Fredericksburg?
                                    >> Donna
                                    >>
                                    >> ----- Original Message -----
                                    >> From: G E Mayers
                                    >> To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                                    >> Sent: Monday, May 30, 2005 10:06 PM
                                    >> Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Smallpox (was: Where was JLC during the
                                    > battle?)
                                    >>
                                    >>
                                    >> Dear Donna,
                                    >>
                                    >> Do you live in NJ? I am about an hour north of Trenton and years ago
                                    > went
                                    >> through the Old Barracks one December 266h when there was a re-creation
                                    > of
                                    >> part of the Battle of Trenton.
                                    >>
                                    >> As to JLC and 20th ME VI, their first actual battle was Fredericksburg.
                                    > The
                                    >> 20th ME was part of the overall reserve at Antietam of Porter's V
                                    >> Corps.
                                    > As
                                    >> the 20th ME was a very green unit, I doubt Mac would have used them
                                    >> even
                                    > if
                                    >> necessary.
                                    >>
                                    >> Very respectfully,
                                    >> G E "Gerry" Mayers
                                    >> Confederate Signal Corps,
                                    >> Longstreet's Corps
                                    >>
                                    >>
                                    >>
                                    >> ----- Original Message -----
                                    >> From: "Donna" <runtoto@...>
                                    >> To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                                    >> Sent: Monday, May 30, 2005 9:46 PM
                                    >> Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Smallpox (was: Where was JLC during the
                                    > battle?)
                                    >>
                                    >>
                                    >> > Hi Brian Thanks for the welcome.
                                    >> > My guess is that the inoculations were required. I went through the
                                    >> > barracks in Trenton and the guide told us that George Washington
                                    > required
                                    >> > the troops to be inoculated in the Revolutionary War. I am sure it
                                    >> > continued. I will look around and see if I can find anything credible
                                    >> > about the story. It was just one of those things that just stuck in
                                    >> my
                                    >> > mind.
                                    >> > Donna
                                    >> > ----- Original Message -----
                                    >> > From: bdowney@...
                                    >> > To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                                    >> > Sent: Monday, May 30, 2005 9:38 PM
                                    >> > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Smallpox (was: Where was JLC during the
                                    > battle?)
                                    >> >
                                    >> >
                                    >> > Hi Donna,
                                    >> >
                                    >> > Welcome to the group, it's good to see fresh activity.
                                    >> >
                                    >> > This is fascinating stuff about the 20th Maine and smallpox. Do you
                                    >> > remember the
                                    >> > source? A fine anecdote, if true. I'd love to use it ... if it's
                                    >> > documented reliably.
                                    >> >
                                    >> > Were smallpox inoculations common among the troops during the War?
                                    > I've
                                    >> > not seen
                                    >> > mention of this before, but then, my memory goes sometimes ...
                                    >> >
                                    >> > Brian
                                    >> >
                                    >> >
                                    >> > > I am new to this list.
                                    >> > > I had read that the 20 ME had just received their inoculations
                                    >> for
                                    >> > > small pox and were in isolation because the serum was bad, and
                                    >> > > Chamberlain was with that group. I have no idea if that statement
                                    > is
                                    >> > > valid.
                                    >> > > Donna
                                    >> > >
                                    >> > > -------------- Original message --------------
                                    >> > > Where was Joshua Lawrence Chamberlain during the Battle of
                                    > Antietam?
                                    >> > > Thanks.
                                    >> > >
                                    >> > > Stephen Recker
                                    >> > >
                                    >> > >
                                    >> > >
                                    >> > >
                                    >> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    >> > >
                                    >> > >
                                    >> > >
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                                  • G E Mayers
                                    Stephen, What Sumner wanted Sedgwick to do would have worked if: 1. Proper recon had been done previously; 2. Flankers and skirmishers on both sides and in the
                                    Message 17 of 29 , May 31, 2005
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                                      Stephen,

                                      What Sumner wanted Sedgwick to do would have worked if:

                                      1. Proper recon had been done previously;
                                      2. Flankers and skirmishers on both sides and in the front;
                                      3. While I suspect Sumner had Sedgwick use the proper interval spacing
                                      between the brigades, I think the brigade battle line would have been
                                      sufficient had enough room been there for maneuver.
                                      4. Other than the brigade battle line, perhaps marching in column front with
                                      flankers to each side and skirmishers in front might have worked.

                                      But we will never know.............

                                      Very respectfully,
                                      G E "Gerry" Mayers
                                      Confederate Signal Corps,
                                      Longstreet's Corps



                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                      From: "Stephen Recker" <recker@...>
                                      To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                                      Sent: Tuesday, May 31, 2005 10:39 AM
                                      Subject: [TalkAntietam] What if not Brigade Front?


                                      >I have been reading the micro-history "Disaster in the West Woods". It
                                      > knocks Sumner for sending Sedgwick across the Cornfield into the West
                                      > Woods in Brigade Front formation.
                                      >
                                      > Not being a military guy myself, I was wondering what formation
                                      > would've been better. The book points out the deficiencies of the
                                      > chosen formation but doesn't offer an alternative. Any thoughts? Thanks.
                                      >
                                      > Stephen Recker
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
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                                    • Thomas Clemens
                                      I know John was trying to get you for a tour @ 1:00 today, see you there? Thomas G. Clemens D.A. Professor of History Hagerstown Community College [Non-text
                                      Message 18 of 29 , May 31, 2005
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                                        I know John was trying to get you for a tour @ 1:00 today, see you
                                        there?

                                        Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
                                        Professor of History
                                        Hagerstown Community College




                                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      • Stephen Recker
                                        I hadn t heard anything about that until I called John about something different and I guess he already handled it. Too bad. I had something I could ve
                                        Message 19 of 29 , May 31, 2005
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                                          I hadn't heard anything about that until I called John about something
                                          different and I guess he already handled it. Too bad. I had something I
                                          could've cancelled but I have something else at 1pm today. See you
                                          later, I guess. Have a blast out there today. Gorgeous weather.

                                          Stephen




                                          On Tuesday, May 31, 2005, at 10:45 AM, Thomas Clemens wrote:

                                          > I know John was trying to get you for a tour @ 1:00 today, see you
                                          > there?
                                        • Stephen Bockmiller
                                          Tom... Any reference to Middletown in that letter? Steve Bockmiller ... __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam?
                                          Message 20 of 29 , May 31, 2005
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                                            Tom...

                                            Any reference to Middletown in that letter?

                                            Steve Bockmiller

                                            --- Thomas Clemens <clemenst@...> wrote:
                                            > Steve,
                                            > I missed your initial query, but remind me the next
                                            > time we're together
                                            > (tomorrow?) to give you a copy of the typescript of
                                            > JLC's letter home
                                            > describing the march to Sharpsburg and the fight at
                                            > Shepherdstown. Got
                                            > it a while ago form a friend.
                                            > Tom
                                            >
                                            > Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
                                            > Professor of History
                                            > Hagerstown Community College
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > >>> recker@... 05/30/05 4:39 PM
                                            > >>>
                                            >
                                            >

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