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Re: [TalkAntietam] Hagerstown Fence

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  • Thomas Clemens
    David, I share some of your concerns. SHAF offered over $8K to the NPs to replacethat fence. Monocacy just bought six rail and we offered to pay the
    Message 1 of 22 , Apr 7, 2005
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      David,
      I share some of your concerns. SHAF offered over $8K to the NPs to
      replacethat fence. Monocacy just bought six rail and we offered to pay
      the difference between five rail and six rail. We also asked for it to
      be placed close to the pavement to show the confining element of the
      turnpike as a factor in the battle.
      The problems are that the Hagerstown Pike throughthe battlefield is
      still a public-use roadway, and thus must have a shoulder for safett,
      etc. (Mumma Lane belongs soley to the NPS.) Also the NPS did not want
      to put six rail fence there, for reasons I don't fully understand. As a
      result we chose not to fund that portion of fence, but we gave the money
      to fund worm fence along Branch Ave. As always with the NPS, it is a
      compromise.

      And yes, resurfacing Hagerstown pike to its original look would be
      wonderful, but not practical at this point in time. Back in 1989 the
      GMP (General Management Plan) called for doing just that, creating a new
      access road and making the pike and Cornfield Ave. a walking-only path
      with a large plaza at the SW corner of the cornfield. Obviously that
      didn't happen either.

      And it is still my dream to one day remove all those ugly power lines
      through the heart of the fighting area. Steve, are you sure Sharpsburg
      had telegraph lines in 1862? I have never seen anyrecord of them
      existing, but on the other hand, that doesn't mean they didn't. My
      thought was that telegraph lines connected larger towns like Hagerstown,
      not farming communities like Sharpsburg. It would be fun to look at
      it.
      Tom Clemens




      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Stephen Recker
      Tom, Actually, I was no doubt thinking of the photos I have seen from later in that century. I know of no accounts of telegraph lines being there at the time
      Message 2 of 22 , Apr 7, 2005
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        Tom,

        Actually, I was no doubt thinking of the photos I have seen from later
        in that century. I know of no accounts of telegraph lines being there
        at the time of the battle.

        I agree it would be money well spent removing those phone lines. I have
        spent many hours airbrushing them out of photos.

        Stephen

        On Thursday, April 7, 2005, at 09:42 AM, Thomas Clemens wrote:

        > And it is still my dream to one day remove all those ugly power lines
        > through the heart of the fighting area. Steve, are you sure Sharpsburg
        > had telegraph lines in 1862? I have never seen any record of them
        > existing, but on the other hand, that doesn't mean they didn't. My
        > thought was that telegraph lines connected larger towns like
        > Hagerstown,
        > not farming communities like Sharpsburg. It would be fun to look at
        > it.
      • Stephen Recker
        I recently bought a postcard with a view of Bloody Lane when there was a superintendent s house and a store on it. This was a surprise to me. I had read the
        Message 3 of 22 , Apr 7, 2005
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          I recently bought a postcard with a view of Bloody Lane when there was
          a superintendent's house and a store on it. This was a surprise to me.
          I had read the stories in the park history book about the drunk,
          gun-wielding super that lived there, but hadn't seen a photo of his
          house. And I was certaily unaware of a store on the lane.

          Does anyone know of any close-up photos of those buildings or know when
          they were taken down? In the background of the postcard I can see what
          I believe is the VC being built. Thanks.

          Stephen Recker
        • G E Mayers
          Dear Stephen, I believe at one point there was a little snack stand somewhere near the Bloody Lane. Also, one post War photo shows a two story building
          Message 4 of 22 , Apr 7, 2005
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            Dear Stephen,

            I believe at one point there was a little snack stand somewhere near the
            Bloody Lane. Also, one post War photo shows a two story building abutting
            the fence on the Piper Farm property.

            I will send you what postcards I have here on file so you can review.

            Also, next time you are at Antietam NBP VC bookstore, pick up a copy of The
            Battlefield of Antietam, containing many vintage (turn of 20th century)
            photographs.

            Very respectfully,
            G E "Gerry" Mayers
            Confederate Signal Corps,
            Longstreet's Corps



            ----- Original Message -----
            From: "Stephen Recker" <recker@...>
            To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2005 10:07 AM
            Subject: [TalkAntietam] Bloody Lane structures


            >I recently bought a postcard with a view of Bloody Lane when there was
            > a superintendent's house and a store on it. This was a surprise to me.
            > I had read the stories in the park history book about the drunk,
            > gun-wielding super that lived there, but hadn't seen a photo of his
            > house. And I was certaily unaware of a store on the lane.
            >
            > Does anyone know of any close-up photos of those buildings or know when
            > they were taken down? In the background of the postcard I can see what
            > I believe is the VC being built. Thanks.
            >
            > Stephen Recker
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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            > a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
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            >
            >


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Stephen Recker
            Gerry, Many thanks. Stephen
            Message 5 of 22 , Apr 7, 2005
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              Gerry,

              Many thanks.

              Stephen

              On Thursday, April 7, 2005, at 10:18 AM, G E Mayers wrote:

              >
              > Dear Stephen,
              >
              > I believe at one point there was a little snack stand somewhere near
              > the
              > Bloody Lane. Also, one post War photo shows a two story building
              > abutting
              > the fence on the Piper Farm property.
              >
              > I will send you what postcards I have here on file so you can review.
              >
              > Also, next time you are at Antietam NBP VC bookstore, pick up a copy
              > of The
              > Battlefield of Antietam, containing many vintage (turn of 20th century)
              > photographs.
              >
              > Very respectfully,
              > G E "Gerry" Mayers
              > Confederate Signal Corps,
              > Longstreet's Corps
              >
            • G E Mayers
              Stephen, Did you get the postcards? If not, email me privately and I will send what I have. Very respectfully, G E Gerry Mayers Confederate Signal Corps,
              Message 6 of 22 , Apr 7, 2005
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                Stephen,

                Did you get the postcards? If not, email me privately and I will send what I
                have.

                Very respectfully,
                G E "Gerry" Mayers
                Confederate Signal Corps,
                Longstreet's Corps



                ----- Original Message -----
                From: "Stephen Recker" <recker@...>
                To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2005 10:44 AM
                Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Bloody Lane structures


                > Gerry,
                >
                > Many thanks.
                >
                > Stephen
                >
                > On Thursday, April 7, 2005, at 10:18 AM, G E Mayers wrote:
                >
                >>
                >> Dear Stephen,
                >>
                >> I believe at one point there was a little snack stand somewhere near
                >> the
                >> Bloody Lane. Also, one post War photo shows a two story building
                >> abutting
                >> the fence on the Piper Farm property.
                >>
                >> I will send you what postcards I have here on file so you can review.
                >>
                >> Also, next time you are at Antietam NBP VC bookstore, pick up a copy
                >> of The
                >> Battlefield of Antietam, containing many vintage (turn of 20th century)
                >> photographs.
                >>
                >> Very respectfully,
                >> G E "Gerry" Mayers
                >> Confederate Signal Corps,
                >> Longstreet's Corps
                >>
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                >
                > a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
                > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TalkAntietam/
                >
                > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                > TalkAntietam-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
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              • Thomas Clemens
                That makes sense, no poles or wires in any Garner photos. We were on the verge of a fund-raising project to do that when Allegany Power went into financial
                Message 7 of 22 , Apr 7, 2005
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                  That makes sense, no poles or wires in any Garner photos. We were on
                  the verge of a fund-raising project to do that when Allegany Power went
                  into financial turmoil and pulled out of the project. John Howard has
                  some funds allocated in a few years, and I would LOVE to start a
                  public/private match to fund their removal. It is pricey, about 1K per
                  foot! But worth every penny.
                  Would be very cool.
                  Tom Clemens

                  >>> recker@... 4/7/2005 10:03:33 AM >>>

                  Tom,

                  Actually, I was no doubt thinking of the photos I have seen from later

                  in that century. I know of no accounts of telegraph lines being there
                  at the time of the battle.

                  I agree it would be money well spent removing those phone lines. I have

                  spent many hours airbrushing them out of photos.

                  Stephen




                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Thomas Clemens
                  I don t know of photos, but remember the building. It sat amonst the trees in front ofthe 130th PA monument. It was log cabin, and they had a big stink about
                  Message 8 of 22 , Apr 7, 2005
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                    I don't know of photos, but remember the building. It sat amonst the
                    trees in front ofthe 130th PA monument. It was log cabin, and they had
                    a big stink about whether it was original or not to the battle. (Some
                    folks in Sharpsburg started a rumor it was there at the time.) It came
                    down in the late 70's I think. There was another house adjacent to the
                    Dunker Church that shared the same fate.
                    Tom C

                    >>> recker@... 4/7/2005 10:07:39 AM >>>

                    I recently bought a postcard with a view of Bloody Lane when there was

                    a superintendent's house and a store on it. This was a surprise to me.

                    I had read the stories in the park history book about the drunk,
                    gun-wielding super that lived there, but hadn't seen a photo of his
                    house. And I was certaily unaware of a store on the lane.

                    Does anyone know of any close-up photos of those buildings or know when

                    they were taken down? In the background of the postcard I can see what

                    I believe is the VC being built. Thanks.

                    Stephen Recker







                    Yahoo! Groups Links
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                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • G E Mayers
                    Tom Maybe The DOG, CWPT and other organizations might be willing to help. Very respectfully, G E Gerry Mayers Confederate Signal Corps, Longstreet s Corps
                    Message 9 of 22 , Apr 7, 2005
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                      Tom

                      Maybe The DOG, CWPT and other organizations might be willing to help.

                      Very respectfully,
                      G E "Gerry" Mayers
                      Confederate Signal Corps,
                      Longstreet's Corps



                      ----- Original Message -----
                      From: "Thomas Clemens" <clemenst@...>
                      To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                      Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2005 12:27 PM
                      Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Hagerstown Fence


                      > That makes sense, no poles or wires in any Garner photos. We were on
                      > the verge of a fund-raising project to do that when Allegany Power went
                      > into financial turmoil and pulled out of the project. John Howard has
                      > some funds allocated in a few years, and I would LOVE to start a
                      > public/private match to fund their removal. It is pricey, about 1K per
                      > foot! But worth every penny.
                      > Would be very cool.
                      > Tom Clemens
                      >
                      >>>> recker@... 4/7/2005 10:03:33 AM >>>
                      >
                      > Tom,
                      >
                      > Actually, I was no doubt thinking of the photos I have seen from later
                      >
                      > in that century. I know of no accounts of telegraph lines being there
                      > at the time of the battle.
                      >
                      > I agree it would be money well spent removing those phone lines. I have
                      >
                      > spent many hours airbrushing them out of photos.
                      >
                      > Stephen
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                      > Yahoo! Groups Links
                      >
                      > a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
                      > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TalkAntietam/
                      >
                      > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                      > TalkAntietam-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                      >
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                      >
                      >
                    • rotbaron@aol.com
                      Gerry, If you can email me the postcards, I d love to see them. Tom Shay ... From: G E Mayers To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thu,
                      Message 10 of 22 , Apr 7, 2005
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                        Gerry,
                        If you can email me the postcards, I'd love to see them.
                        Tom Shay

                        -----Original Message-----
                        From: G E Mayers <gerry1952@...>
                        To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                        Sent: Thu, 7 Apr 2005 10:49:49 -0400
                        Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Bloody Lane structures



                        Stephen,

                        Did you get the postcards? If not, email me privately and I will send what I
                        have.

                        Very respectfully,
                        G E "Gerry" Mayers
                        Confederate Signal Corps,
                        Longstreet's Corps



                        ----- Original Message -----
                        From: "Stephen Recker" <recker@...>
                        To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                        Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2005 10:44 AM
                        Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Bloody Lane structures


                        > Gerry,
                        >
                        > Many thanks.
                        >
                        > Stephen
                        >
                        > On Thursday, April 7, 2005, at 10:18 AM, G E Mayers wrote:
                        >
                        >>
                        >> Dear Stephen,
                        >>
                        >> I believe at one point there was a little snack stand somewhere near
                        >> the
                        >> Bloody Lane. Also, one post War photo shows a two story building
                        >> abutting
                        >> the fence on the Piper Farm property.
                        >>
                        >> I will send you what postcards I have here on file so you can review.
                        >>
                        >> Also, next time you are at Antietam NBP VC bookstore, pick up a copy
                        >> of The
                        >> Battlefield of Antietam, containing many vintage (turn of 20th century)
                        >> photographs.
                        >>
                        >> Very respectfully,
                        >> G E "Gerry" Mayers
                        >> Confederate Signal Corps,
                        >> Longstreet's Corps
                        >>
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                        > Yahoo! Groups Links
                        >
                        > a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
                        > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TalkAntietam/
                        >
                        > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                        > TalkAntietam-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                        >
                        > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
                        >
                        >






                        Yahoo! Groups Links






                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • G E Mayers
                        Tom, I think I might have found them on the NPS site. I will probably privately email them. They are turn of the century stuff though, so they are interesting
                        Message 11 of 22 , Apr 7, 2005
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                          Tom,

                          I think I might have found them on the NPS site. I will probably privately
                          email them.

                          They are turn of the century stuff though, so they are interesting from that
                          viewpoint.

                          Very respectfully,
                          G E "Gerry" Mayers
                          Confederate Signal Corps,
                          Longstreet's Corps



                          ----- Original Message -----
                          From: <rotbaron@...>
                          To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                          Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2005 3:18 PM
                          Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Bloody Lane structures


                          > Gerry,
                          > If you can email me the postcards, I'd love to see them.
                          > Tom Shay
                          >
                          > -----Original Message-----
                          > From: G E Mayers <gerry1952@...>
                          > To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                          > Sent: Thu, 7 Apr 2005 10:49:49 -0400
                          > Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Bloody Lane structures
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > Stephen,
                          >
                          > Did you get the postcards? If not, email me privately and I will send what
                          > I
                          > have.
                          >
                          > Very respectfully,
                          > G E "Gerry" Mayers
                          > Confederate Signal Corps,
                          > Longstreet's Corps
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > ----- Original Message -----
                          > From: "Stephen Recker" <recker@...>
                          > To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                          > Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2005 10:44 AM
                          > Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Bloody Lane structures
                          >
                          >
                          >> Gerry,
                          >>
                          >> Many thanks.
                          >>
                          >> Stephen
                          >>
                          >> On Thursday, April 7, 2005, at 10:18 AM, G E Mayers wrote:
                          >>
                          >>>
                          >>> Dear Stephen,
                          >>>
                          >>> I believe at one point there was a little snack stand somewhere near
                          >>> the
                          >>> Bloody Lane. Also, one post War photo shows a two story building
                          >>> abutting
                          >>> the fence on the Piper Farm property.
                          >>>
                          >>> I will send you what postcards I have here on file so you can review.
                          >>>
                          >>> Also, next time you are at Antietam NBP VC bookstore, pick up a copy
                          >>> of The
                          >>> Battlefield of Antietam, containing many vintage (turn of 20th century)
                          >>> photographs.
                          >>>
                          >>> Very respectfully,
                          >>> G E "Gerry" Mayers
                          >>> Confederate Signal Corps,
                          >>> Longstreet's Corps
                          >>>
                          >>
                          >>
                          >>
                          >>
                          >>
                          >>
                          >>
                          >>
                          >> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                          >> Yahoo! Groups Links
                          >>
                          >> a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
                          >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TalkAntietam/
                          >>
                          >> b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                          >> TalkAntietam-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                          >>
                          >> c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
                          >>
                          >>
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > Yahoo! Groups Links
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                          > Yahoo! Groups Links
                          >
                          > a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
                          > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TalkAntietam/
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                        • Stephen Recker
                          Are you talking about these? http://www.nps.gov/anti/postcards/Postcards.htm Stephen
                          Message 12 of 22 , Apr 7, 2005
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                            Are you talking about these?

                            http://www.nps.gov/anti/postcards/Postcards.htm

                            Stephen


                            On Thursday, April 7, 2005, at 03:21 PM, G E Mayers wrote:

                            >
                            > Tom,
                            >
                            > I think I might have found them on the NPS site. I will probably
                            > privately
                            > email them.
                            >
                            > They are turn of the century stuff though, so they are interesting
                            > from that
                            > viewpoint.
                            >
                            > Very respectfully,
                            > G E "Gerry" Mayers
                            > Confederate Signal Corps,
                            > Longstreet's Corps
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > ----- Original Message -----
                            > From: <rotbaron@...>
                            > To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                            > Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2005 3:18 PM
                            > Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Bloody Lane structures
                            >
                            >
                          • dickeyr46
                            I m new to the group, but have been watching and reading for some time. Please excuse my lengthy post, but your comment about telegraph lines peaked my
                            Message 13 of 22 , Apr 7, 2005
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                              I'm new to the group, but have been watching and reading for some
                              time. Please excuse my lengthy post, but your comment about telegraph
                              lines peaked my interest enough to join.

                              Several of Gardner's photos show telegraph poles, but none along
                              Hagerstown Pike, which I believe was the focal point of the original
                              comment. The wire is even visible in a few of the photos.

                              Several photos taken at the Middle Bridge show 3 telegraph poles. The
                              wire is visible in at least two. Catalog #583 is probably the best...
                              You can clearly see a pole at both banks of the creek at the south
                              side bridge wings. A third pole is visible in front of the Newcomer
                              house, this one on the north side of the road. I used high resolution
                              copies of the photo from the Library of Congress website. With a
                              little magnification, you can see the insulators on the poles and the
                              glint of sunlight from the wire that traces it from pole to pole. #610
                              is almost as good. Again you can see the three poles and the wire
                              emerging from behind the house roof in the right foreground to the
                              eastern most pole.

                              While Gardner's #582 focuses on the Newcomer mill, the house appears
                              in the left background with the pole clearly visible to its front.
                              #607 also shows the poles. The series of four Gardner took from the
                              west bank (# 572, 578, etc.) show the pole on the east bank above the
                              abutment.

                              Two of Gardner's photos taken in town show poles and wire. The photo
                              of the Lutheran Church, #596, shows the pole about midway between the
                              church and the first house to the right. It is on the bank of the
                              road, next to the picket fence. With some magnification, the wire is
                              visible on both sides of the pole.

                              The pole is not as easily picked out in #595 looking west down Main
                              Street, but it is there on the south side of the street. The right
                              side of this stereo is sharper. What had always seemed a hairline
                              crack or flaw in the plate is the wire… funny how that "flaw" seemed
                              to be on both halves of the stereo. Gardner must have been just a
                              little left of dead center under the wire when he took this one.
                              Looking just a little left of center at the top of the photo, a thin
                              black line moves down and to the left and ends at the pole. That's our
                              wire.

                              When was the telegraph put in? I don't know. Since all of the Middle
                              Bridge photos were made on Sept 22 and the 2 town photos were made on
                              Sept 21 or 22, McClellan had already moved his HQ from the Pry house
                              to west of town. Perhaps the telegraph was put in to support the new
                              location. Or, perhaps the telegraph had run from
                              Boonsboro-Keedysville-Sharpsburg all along.

                              --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, Stephen Recker <recker@v...> wrote:
                              > Tom,
                              >
                              > Actually, I was no doubt thinking of the photos I have seen from later
                              > in that century. I know of no accounts of telegraph lines being there
                              > at the time of the battle.
                              >
                            • G E Mayers
                              Yes, I think so! But also, there is a booklet you should still be able to purchase at Antietam NBP VC bookstore, which O C Reilly might originally been the
                              Message 14 of 22 , Apr 7, 2005
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                                Yes, I think so!

                                But also, there is a booklet you should still be able to purchase at
                                Antietam NBP VC bookstore, which O C Reilly might originally been the
                                publisher of. Very interesting pictures.

                                Very respectfully,
                                G E "Gerry" Mayers
                                Confederate Signal Corps,
                                Longstreet's Corps



                                ----- Original Message -----
                                From: "Stephen Recker" <recker@...>
                                To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                                Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2005 4:22 PM
                                Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Bloody Lane structures


                                > Are you talking about these?
                                >
                                > http://www.nps.gov/anti/postcards/Postcards.htm
                                >
                                > Stephen
                                >
                                >
                                > On Thursday, April 7, 2005, at 03:21 PM, G E Mayers wrote:
                                >
                                >>
                                >> Tom,
                                >>
                                >> I think I might have found them on the NPS site. I will probably
                                >> privately
                                >> email them.
                                >>
                                >> They are turn of the century stuff though, so they are interesting
                                >> from that
                                >> viewpoint.
                                >>
                                >> Very respectfully,
                                >> G E "Gerry" Mayers
                                >> Confederate Signal Corps,
                                >> Longstreet's Corps
                                >>
                                >>
                                >>
                                >> ----- Original Message -----
                                >> From: <rotbaron@...>
                                >> To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                                >> Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2005 3:18 PM
                                >> Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Bloody Lane structures
                                >>
                                >>
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                >
                                > a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TalkAntietam/
                                >
                                > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                > TalkAntietam-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                >
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                                >
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                              • Stephen Recker
                                This is really interesting. Thanks. Stephen
                                Message 15 of 22 , Apr 7, 2005
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                                  This is really interesting. Thanks.

                                  Stephen

                                  On Thursday, April 7, 2005, at 04:58 PM, dickeyr46 wrote:

                                  >
                                  >
                                  > I'm new to the group, but have been watching and reading for some
                                  > time. Please excuse my lengthy post, but your comment about telegraph
                                  > lines peaked my interest enough to join.
                                  >
                                  > Several of Gardner's photos show telegraph poles, but none along
                                  > Hagerstown Pike, which I believe was the focal point of the original
                                  > comment. The wire is even visible in a few of the photos.
                                  >
                                  > Several photos taken at the Middle Bridge show 3 telegraph poles. The
                                  > wire is visible in at least two. Catalog #583 is probably the best...
                                  > You can clearly see a pole at both banks of the creek at the south
                                  > side bridge wings. A third pole is visible in front of the Newcomer
                                  > house, this one on the north side of the road. I used high resolution
                                  > copies of the photo from the Library of Congress website. With a
                                  > little magnification, you can see the insulators on the poles and the
                                  > glint of sunlight from the wire that traces it from pole to pole. #610
                                  > is almost as good. Again you can see the three poles and the wire
                                  > emerging from behind the house roof in the right foreground to the
                                  > eastern most pole.
                                  >
                                  > While Gardner's #582 focuses on the Newcomer mill, the house appears
                                  > in the left background with the pole clearly visible to its front.
                                  > #607 also shows the poles. The series of four Gardner took from the
                                  > west bank (# 572, 578, etc.) show the pole on the east bank above the
                                  > abutment.
                                  >
                                  > Two of Gardner's photos taken in town show poles and wire. The photo
                                  > of the Lutheran Church, #596, shows the pole about midway between the
                                  > church and the first house to the right. It is on the bank of the
                                  > road, next to the picket fence. With some magnification, the wire is
                                  > visible on both sides of the pole.
                                  >
                                  > The pole is not as easily picked out in #595 looking west down Main
                                  > Street, but it is there on the south side of the street. The right
                                  > side of this stereo is sharper. What had always seemed a hairline
                                  > crack or flaw in the plate is the wire… funny how that "flaw" seemed
                                  > to be on both halves of the stereo. Gardner must have been just a
                                  > little left of dead center under the wire when he took this one.
                                  > Looking just a little left of center at the top of the photo, a thin
                                  > black line moves down and to the left and ends at the pole. That's our
                                  > wire.
                                  >
                                  > When was the telegraph put in? I don't know. Since all of the Middle
                                  > Bridge photos were made on Sept 22 and the 2 town photos were made on
                                  > Sept 21 or 22, McClellan had already moved his HQ from the Pry house
                                  > to west of town. Perhaps the telegraph was put in to support the new
                                  > location. Or, perhaps the telegraph had run from
                                  > Boonsboro-Keedysville-Sharpsburg all along.
                                  >
                                  > --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, Stephen Recker <recker@v...>
                                  > wrote:
                                  >> Tom,
                                  >>
                                  >> Actually, I was no doubt thinking of the photos I have seen from later
                                  >> in that century. I know of no accounts of telegraph lines being there
                                  >> at the time of the battle.
                                  >>
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                • richard@rcroker.com
                                  I LOVE the Bloody Lane photo! No tower, no monuments, no access road. It probably looks just like it did on September 15, 1862, back when it was called (I am
                                  Message 16 of 22 , Apr 8, 2005
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                                    I LOVE the Bloody Lane photo! No tower, no monuments, no access road. It
                                    probably looks just like it did on September 15, 1862, back when it was
                                    called (I am told) "Hog Trough Road."

                                    Richard Croker
                                    www.rcroker.com


                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                    From: "Stephen Recker" <recker@...>
                                    To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                                    Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2005 4:22 PM
                                    Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Bloody Lane structures


                                    >
                                    > Are you talking about these?
                                    >
                                    > http://www.nps.gov/anti/postcards/Postcards.htm
                                    >
                                    > Stephen
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > On Thursday, April 7, 2005, at 03:21 PM, G E Mayers wrote:
                                    >
                                    > >
                                    > > Tom,
                                    > >
                                    > > I think I might have found them on the NPS site. I will probably
                                    > > privately
                                    > > email them.
                                    > >
                                    > > They are turn of the century stuff though, so they are interesting
                                    > > from that
                                    > > viewpoint.
                                    > >
                                    > > Very respectfully,
                                    > > G E "Gerry" Mayers
                                    > > Confederate Signal Corps,
                                    > > Longstreet's Corps
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > > ----- Original Message -----
                                    > > From: <rotbaron@...>
                                    > > To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                                    > > Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2005 3:18 PM
                                    > > Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Bloody Lane structures
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                  • G E Mayers
                                    Dear Richard, The tower was put at its present site back in 1898, IIRC, by the War Dept. I think the view of the Bloody Lane did not go all the way up to the
                                    Message 17 of 22 , Apr 8, 2005
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                                      Dear Richard,

                                      The tower was put at its present site back in 1898, IIRC, by the War Dept. I
                                      think the view of the Bloody Lane did not go all the way up to the Tower or
                                      else the photo for the postcard was taken from the Tower.

                                      Very respectfully,
                                      G E "Gerry" Mayers
                                      Confederate Signal Corps,
                                      Longstreet's Corps



                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                      From: <richard@...>
                                      To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                                      Sent: Friday, April 08, 2005 7:01 AM
                                      Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Bloody Lane structures


                                      >I LOVE the Bloody Lane photo! No tower, no monuments, no access road. It
                                      > probably looks just like it did on September 15, 1862, back when it was
                                      > called (I am told) "Hog Trough Road."
                                      >
                                      > Richard Croker
                                      > www.rcroker.com
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > ----- Original Message -----
                                      > From: "Stephen Recker" <recker@...>
                                      > To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                                      > Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2005 4:22 PM
                                      > Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Bloody Lane structures
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >>
                                      >> Are you talking about these?
                                      >>
                                      >> http://www.nps.gov/anti/postcards/Postcards.htm
                                      >>
                                      >> Stephen
                                      >>
                                      >>
                                      >> On Thursday, April 7, 2005, at 03:21 PM, G E Mayers wrote:
                                      >>
                                      >> >
                                      >> > Tom,
                                      >> >
                                      >> > I think I might have found them on the NPS site. I will probably
                                      >> > privately
                                      >> > email them.
                                      >> >
                                      >> > They are turn of the century stuff though, so they are interesting
                                      >> > from that
                                      >> > viewpoint.
                                      >> >
                                      >> > Very respectfully,
                                      >> > G E "Gerry" Mayers
                                      >> > Confederate Signal Corps,
                                      >> > Longstreet's Corps
                                      >> >
                                      >> >
                                      >> >
                                      >> > ----- Original Message -----
                                      >> > From: <rotbaron@...>
                                      >> > To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                                      >> > Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2005 3:18 PM
                                      >> > Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Bloody Lane structures
                                      >> >
                                      >> >
                                      >>
                                      >>
                                      >>
                                      >>
                                      >>
                                      >>
                                      >> Yahoo! Groups Links
                                      >>
                                      >>
                                      >>
                                      >>
                                      >>
                                      >>
                                      >>
                                      >>
                                      >>
                                      >>
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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                                      >
                                    • Thomas Clemens
                                      Thanks, I had not thought of those photos when we were talking about these lines. I am not sure when that line went in, but will look into it. Thomas G.
                                      Message 18 of 22 , Apr 8, 2005
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        Thanks, I had not thought of those photos when we were talking about these lines. I am not sure when that line went in, but will look into it.


                                        Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
                                        Professor of History
                                        Hagerstown Community College



                                        >>> dickeyr46@... 4/7/2005 4:58:20 PM >>>


                                        I'm new to the group, but have been watching and reading for some
                                        time. Please excuse my lengthy post, but your comment about telegraph
                                        lines peaked my interest enough to join.

                                        Several of Gardner's photos show telegraph poles, but none along
                                        Hagerstown Pike, which I believe was the focal point of the original
                                        comment. The wire is even visible in a few of the photos.

                                        Several photos taken at the Middle Bridge show 3 telegraph poles. The
                                        wire is visible in at least two. Catalog #583 is probably the best...
                                        You can clearly see a pole at both banks of the creek at the south
                                        side bridge wings. A third pole is visible in front of the Newcomer
                                        house, this one on the north side of the road. I used high resolution
                                        copies of the photo from the Library of Congress website. With a
                                        little magnification, you can see the insulators on the poles and the
                                        glint of sunlight from the wire that traces it from pole to pole. #610
                                        is almost as good. Again you can see the three poles and the wire
                                        emerging from behind the house roof in the right foreground to the
                                        eastern most pole.

                                        While Gardner's #582 focuses on the Newcomer mill, the house appears
                                        in the left background with the pole clearly visible to its front.
                                        #607 also shows the poles. The series of four Gardner took from the
                                        west bank (# 572, 578, etc.) show the pole on the east bank above the
                                        abutment.

                                        Two of Gardner's photos taken in town show poles and wire. The photo
                                        of the Lutheran Church, #596, shows the pole about midway between the
                                        church and the first house to the right. It is on the bank of the
                                        road, next to the picket fence. With some magnification, the wire is
                                        visible on both sides of the pole.

                                        The pole is not as easily picked out in #595 looking west down Main
                                        Street, but it is there on the south side of the street. The right
                                        side of this stereo is sharper. What had always seemed a hairline
                                        crack or flaw in the plate is the wire* funny how that "flaw" seemed
                                        to be on both halves of the stereo. Gardner must have been just a
                                        little left of dead center under the wire when he took this one.
                                        Looking just a little left of center at the top of the photo, a thin
                                        black line moves down and to the left and ends at the pole. That's our
                                        wire.

                                        When was the telegraph put in? I don't know. Since all of the Middle
                                        Bridge photos were made on Sept 22 and the 2 town photos were made on
                                        Sept 21 or 22, McClellan had already moved his HQ from the Pry house
                                        to west of town. Perhaps the telegraph was put in to support the new
                                        location. Or, perhaps the telegraph had run from
                                        Boonsboro-Keedysville-Sharpsburg all along.

                                        --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, Stephen Recker <recker@v...> wrote:
                                        > Tom,
                                        >
                                        > Actually, I was no doubt thinking of the photos I have seen from later
                                        > in that century. I know of no accounts of telegraph lines being there
                                        > at the time of the battle.
                                        >










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