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Re: [TalkAntietam] Hagerstown Fence

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  • richard@rcroker.com
    Stephen -- I like your attitude. You make me laugh. Richard ... From: Stephen Recker To: Sent:
    Message 1 of 22 , Apr 6, 2005
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      Stephen --

      I like your attitude. You make me laugh.

      Richard
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: "Stephen Recker" <recker@...>
      To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Wednesday, April 06, 2005 9:47 PM
      Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Hagerstown Fence


      >
      > I was out there today taking photos of that exact fence, trying got
      > recreate the historical photo. Personally, I think the new fence is a
      > good thing. I guess you could make a case that it should've been
      > six-rail, but then you'd have to macadamize the road and switch the
      > phone lines for telegraph lines.
      >
      > Stephen Recker
      > Hagerstown, MD
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > On Wednesday, April 6, 2005, at 07:05 PM, david lutton wrote:
      >
      > >
      > > I recall some postings concerning the new fence installed along the
      > > Hagerstown pike. I was recently in Sharpsburg and was curious to see
      > > how this work progressed.
      > >
      > > I was really saddened to see the results. Not only is the fence
      > > inaccurate (if I can recall the Gardner photos, the fence in this
      > > area of the field was six rails high not five), but the new fence is
      > > not in its proper location. I understand that traffic in this area
      > > presents a special problem but if I recall there are fences on both
      > > sides of the road around the Mumma farm. So my basic question is if
      > > the fence could not be placed in it's historic location why put a
      > > fence there at all??
      > >
      > > With so many period fence lines and stone walls on the field that
      > > need attention why waste funds on a historically inaccurate project
      > > like this? Are Park Service funds so plentiful as to permit this
      > > cosmetic project? What was the rational for it? I think that those
      > > of us who are opposed to any new additions to the field such as new
      > > monuments should be equally opposed to any frivolous additions like
      > > this new fence.
      > >
      > > Battery B, 4th US played a significant role in this phase of the
      > > contest and this new "fence" placed litterly in front of one of the
      > > muzzles of the battery guns does them no service.
      > >
      > > Any comments?
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > Yahoo! Groups Links
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
    • Thomas Clemens
      David, I share some of your concerns. SHAF offered over $8K to the NPs to replacethat fence. Monocacy just bought six rail and we offered to pay the
      Message 2 of 22 , Apr 7, 2005
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        David,
        I share some of your concerns. SHAF offered over $8K to the NPs to
        replacethat fence. Monocacy just bought six rail and we offered to pay
        the difference between five rail and six rail. We also asked for it to
        be placed close to the pavement to show the confining element of the
        turnpike as a factor in the battle.
        The problems are that the Hagerstown Pike throughthe battlefield is
        still a public-use roadway, and thus must have a shoulder for safett,
        etc. (Mumma Lane belongs soley to the NPS.) Also the NPS did not want
        to put six rail fence there, for reasons I don't fully understand. As a
        result we chose not to fund that portion of fence, but we gave the money
        to fund worm fence along Branch Ave. As always with the NPS, it is a
        compromise.

        And yes, resurfacing Hagerstown pike to its original look would be
        wonderful, but not practical at this point in time. Back in 1989 the
        GMP (General Management Plan) called for doing just that, creating a new
        access road and making the pike and Cornfield Ave. a walking-only path
        with a large plaza at the SW corner of the cornfield. Obviously that
        didn't happen either.

        And it is still my dream to one day remove all those ugly power lines
        through the heart of the fighting area. Steve, are you sure Sharpsburg
        had telegraph lines in 1862? I have never seen anyrecord of them
        existing, but on the other hand, that doesn't mean they didn't. My
        thought was that telegraph lines connected larger towns like Hagerstown,
        not farming communities like Sharpsburg. It would be fun to look at
        it.
        Tom Clemens




        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Stephen Recker
        Tom, Actually, I was no doubt thinking of the photos I have seen from later in that century. I know of no accounts of telegraph lines being there at the time
        Message 3 of 22 , Apr 7, 2005
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          Tom,

          Actually, I was no doubt thinking of the photos I have seen from later
          in that century. I know of no accounts of telegraph lines being there
          at the time of the battle.

          I agree it would be money well spent removing those phone lines. I have
          spent many hours airbrushing them out of photos.

          Stephen

          On Thursday, April 7, 2005, at 09:42 AM, Thomas Clemens wrote:

          > And it is still my dream to one day remove all those ugly power lines
          > through the heart of the fighting area. Steve, are you sure Sharpsburg
          > had telegraph lines in 1862? I have never seen any record of them
          > existing, but on the other hand, that doesn't mean they didn't. My
          > thought was that telegraph lines connected larger towns like
          > Hagerstown,
          > not farming communities like Sharpsburg. It would be fun to look at
          > it.
        • Stephen Recker
          I recently bought a postcard with a view of Bloody Lane when there was a superintendent s house and a store on it. This was a surprise to me. I had read the
          Message 4 of 22 , Apr 7, 2005
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            I recently bought a postcard with a view of Bloody Lane when there was
            a superintendent's house and a store on it. This was a surprise to me.
            I had read the stories in the park history book about the drunk,
            gun-wielding super that lived there, but hadn't seen a photo of his
            house. And I was certaily unaware of a store on the lane.

            Does anyone know of any close-up photos of those buildings or know when
            they were taken down? In the background of the postcard I can see what
            I believe is the VC being built. Thanks.

            Stephen Recker
          • G E Mayers
            Dear Stephen, I believe at one point there was a little snack stand somewhere near the Bloody Lane. Also, one post War photo shows a two story building
            Message 5 of 22 , Apr 7, 2005
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              Dear Stephen,

              I believe at one point there was a little snack stand somewhere near the
              Bloody Lane. Also, one post War photo shows a two story building abutting
              the fence on the Piper Farm property.

              I will send you what postcards I have here on file so you can review.

              Also, next time you are at Antietam NBP VC bookstore, pick up a copy of The
              Battlefield of Antietam, containing many vintage (turn of 20th century)
              photographs.

              Very respectfully,
              G E "Gerry" Mayers
              Confederate Signal Corps,
              Longstreet's Corps



              ----- Original Message -----
              From: "Stephen Recker" <recker@...>
              To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2005 10:07 AM
              Subject: [TalkAntietam] Bloody Lane structures


              >I recently bought a postcard with a view of Bloody Lane when there was
              > a superintendent's house and a store on it. This was a surprise to me.
              > I had read the stories in the park history book about the drunk,
              > gun-wielding super that lived there, but hadn't seen a photo of his
              > house. And I was certaily unaware of a store on the lane.
              >
              > Does anyone know of any close-up photos of those buildings or know when
              > they were taken down? In the background of the postcard I can see what
              > I believe is the VC being built. Thanks.
              >
              > Stephen Recker
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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              >
              >


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Stephen Recker
              Gerry, Many thanks. Stephen
              Message 6 of 22 , Apr 7, 2005
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                Gerry,

                Many thanks.

                Stephen

                On Thursday, April 7, 2005, at 10:18 AM, G E Mayers wrote:

                >
                > Dear Stephen,
                >
                > I believe at one point there was a little snack stand somewhere near
                > the
                > Bloody Lane. Also, one post War photo shows a two story building
                > abutting
                > the fence on the Piper Farm property.
                >
                > I will send you what postcards I have here on file so you can review.
                >
                > Also, next time you are at Antietam NBP VC bookstore, pick up a copy
                > of The
                > Battlefield of Antietam, containing many vintage (turn of 20th century)
                > photographs.
                >
                > Very respectfully,
                > G E "Gerry" Mayers
                > Confederate Signal Corps,
                > Longstreet's Corps
                >
              • G E Mayers
                Stephen, Did you get the postcards? If not, email me privately and I will send what I have. Very respectfully, G E Gerry Mayers Confederate Signal Corps,
                Message 7 of 22 , Apr 7, 2005
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                  Stephen,

                  Did you get the postcards? If not, email me privately and I will send what I
                  have.

                  Very respectfully,
                  G E "Gerry" Mayers
                  Confederate Signal Corps,
                  Longstreet's Corps



                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: "Stephen Recker" <recker@...>
                  To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                  Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2005 10:44 AM
                  Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Bloody Lane structures


                  > Gerry,
                  >
                  > Many thanks.
                  >
                  > Stephen
                  >
                  > On Thursday, April 7, 2005, at 10:18 AM, G E Mayers wrote:
                  >
                  >>
                  >> Dear Stephen,
                  >>
                  >> I believe at one point there was a little snack stand somewhere near
                  >> the
                  >> Bloody Lane. Also, one post War photo shows a two story building
                  >> abutting
                  >> the fence on the Piper Farm property.
                  >>
                  >> I will send you what postcards I have here on file so you can review.
                  >>
                  >> Also, next time you are at Antietam NBP VC bookstore, pick up a copy
                  >> of The
                  >> Battlefield of Antietam, containing many vintage (turn of 20th century)
                  >> photographs.
                  >>
                  >> Very respectfully,
                  >> G E "Gerry" Mayers
                  >> Confederate Signal Corps,
                  >> Longstreet's Corps
                  >>
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  >
                  > a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
                  > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TalkAntietam/
                  >
                  > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                  > TalkAntietam-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                  >
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                  >
                  >
                • Thomas Clemens
                  That makes sense, no poles or wires in any Garner photos. We were on the verge of a fund-raising project to do that when Allegany Power went into financial
                  Message 8 of 22 , Apr 7, 2005
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                    That makes sense, no poles or wires in any Garner photos. We were on
                    the verge of a fund-raising project to do that when Allegany Power went
                    into financial turmoil and pulled out of the project. John Howard has
                    some funds allocated in a few years, and I would LOVE to start a
                    public/private match to fund their removal. It is pricey, about 1K per
                    foot! But worth every penny.
                    Would be very cool.
                    Tom Clemens

                    >>> recker@... 4/7/2005 10:03:33 AM >>>

                    Tom,

                    Actually, I was no doubt thinking of the photos I have seen from later

                    in that century. I know of no accounts of telegraph lines being there
                    at the time of the battle.

                    I agree it would be money well spent removing those phone lines. I have

                    spent many hours airbrushing them out of photos.

                    Stephen




                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Thomas Clemens
                    I don t know of photos, but remember the building. It sat amonst the trees in front ofthe 130th PA monument. It was log cabin, and they had a big stink about
                    Message 9 of 22 , Apr 7, 2005
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                      I don't know of photos, but remember the building. It sat amonst the
                      trees in front ofthe 130th PA monument. It was log cabin, and they had
                      a big stink about whether it was original or not to the battle. (Some
                      folks in Sharpsburg started a rumor it was there at the time.) It came
                      down in the late 70's I think. There was another house adjacent to the
                      Dunker Church that shared the same fate.
                      Tom C

                      >>> recker@... 4/7/2005 10:07:39 AM >>>

                      I recently bought a postcard with a view of Bloody Lane when there was

                      a superintendent's house and a store on it. This was a surprise to me.

                      I had read the stories in the park history book about the drunk,
                      gun-wielding super that lived there, but hadn't seen a photo of his
                      house. And I was certaily unaware of a store on the lane.

                      Does anyone know of any close-up photos of those buildings or know when

                      they were taken down? In the background of the postcard I can see what

                      I believe is the VC being built. Thanks.

                      Stephen Recker







                      Yahoo! Groups Links
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                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • G E Mayers
                      Tom Maybe The DOG, CWPT and other organizations might be willing to help. Very respectfully, G E Gerry Mayers Confederate Signal Corps, Longstreet s Corps
                      Message 10 of 22 , Apr 7, 2005
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                        Tom

                        Maybe The DOG, CWPT and other organizations might be willing to help.

                        Very respectfully,
                        G E "Gerry" Mayers
                        Confederate Signal Corps,
                        Longstreet's Corps



                        ----- Original Message -----
                        From: "Thomas Clemens" <clemenst@...>
                        To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                        Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2005 12:27 PM
                        Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Hagerstown Fence


                        > That makes sense, no poles or wires in any Garner photos. We were on
                        > the verge of a fund-raising project to do that when Allegany Power went
                        > into financial turmoil and pulled out of the project. John Howard has
                        > some funds allocated in a few years, and I would LOVE to start a
                        > public/private match to fund their removal. It is pricey, about 1K per
                        > foot! But worth every penny.
                        > Would be very cool.
                        > Tom Clemens
                        >
                        >>>> recker@... 4/7/2005 10:03:33 AM >>>
                        >
                        > Tom,
                        >
                        > Actually, I was no doubt thinking of the photos I have seen from later
                        >
                        > in that century. I know of no accounts of telegraph lines being there
                        > at the time of the battle.
                        >
                        > I agree it would be money well spent removing those phone lines. I have
                        >
                        > spent many hours airbrushing them out of photos.
                        >
                        > Stephen
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                        > Yahoo! Groups Links
                        >
                        > a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
                        > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TalkAntietam/
                        >
                        > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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                        >
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                        >
                      • rotbaron@aol.com
                        Gerry, If you can email me the postcards, I d love to see them. Tom Shay ... From: G E Mayers To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thu,
                        Message 11 of 22 , Apr 7, 2005
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                          Gerry,
                          If you can email me the postcards, I'd love to see them.
                          Tom Shay

                          -----Original Message-----
                          From: G E Mayers <gerry1952@...>
                          To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Thu, 7 Apr 2005 10:49:49 -0400
                          Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Bloody Lane structures



                          Stephen,

                          Did you get the postcards? If not, email me privately and I will send what I
                          have.

                          Very respectfully,
                          G E "Gerry" Mayers
                          Confederate Signal Corps,
                          Longstreet's Corps



                          ----- Original Message -----
                          From: "Stephen Recker" <recker@...>
                          To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                          Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2005 10:44 AM
                          Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Bloody Lane structures


                          > Gerry,
                          >
                          > Many thanks.
                          >
                          > Stephen
                          >
                          > On Thursday, April 7, 2005, at 10:18 AM, G E Mayers wrote:
                          >
                          >>
                          >> Dear Stephen,
                          >>
                          >> I believe at one point there was a little snack stand somewhere near
                          >> the
                          >> Bloody Lane. Also, one post War photo shows a two story building
                          >> abutting
                          >> the fence on the Piper Farm property.
                          >>
                          >> I will send you what postcards I have here on file so you can review.
                          >>
                          >> Also, next time you are at Antietam NBP VC bookstore, pick up a copy
                          >> of The
                          >> Battlefield of Antietam, containing many vintage (turn of 20th century)
                          >> photographs.
                          >>
                          >> Very respectfully,
                          >> G E "Gerry" Mayers
                          >> Confederate Signal Corps,
                          >> Longstreet's Corps
                          >>
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                          > Yahoo! Groups Links
                          >
                          > a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
                          > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TalkAntietam/
                          >
                          > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                          > TalkAntietam-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                          >
                          > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
                          >
                          >






                          Yahoo! Groups Links






                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • G E Mayers
                          Tom, I think I might have found them on the NPS site. I will probably privately email them. They are turn of the century stuff though, so they are interesting
                          Message 12 of 22 , Apr 7, 2005
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                            Tom,

                            I think I might have found them on the NPS site. I will probably privately
                            email them.

                            They are turn of the century stuff though, so they are interesting from that
                            viewpoint.

                            Very respectfully,
                            G E "Gerry" Mayers
                            Confederate Signal Corps,
                            Longstreet's Corps



                            ----- Original Message -----
                            From: <rotbaron@...>
                            To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                            Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2005 3:18 PM
                            Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Bloody Lane structures


                            > Gerry,
                            > If you can email me the postcards, I'd love to see them.
                            > Tom Shay
                            >
                            > -----Original Message-----
                            > From: G E Mayers <gerry1952@...>
                            > To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                            > Sent: Thu, 7 Apr 2005 10:49:49 -0400
                            > Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Bloody Lane structures
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > Stephen,
                            >
                            > Did you get the postcards? If not, email me privately and I will send what
                            > I
                            > have.
                            >
                            > Very respectfully,
                            > G E "Gerry" Mayers
                            > Confederate Signal Corps,
                            > Longstreet's Corps
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > ----- Original Message -----
                            > From: "Stephen Recker" <recker@...>
                            > To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                            > Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2005 10:44 AM
                            > Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Bloody Lane structures
                            >
                            >
                            >> Gerry,
                            >>
                            >> Many thanks.
                            >>
                            >> Stephen
                            >>
                            >> On Thursday, April 7, 2005, at 10:18 AM, G E Mayers wrote:
                            >>
                            >>>
                            >>> Dear Stephen,
                            >>>
                            >>> I believe at one point there was a little snack stand somewhere near
                            >>> the
                            >>> Bloody Lane. Also, one post War photo shows a two story building
                            >>> abutting
                            >>> the fence on the Piper Farm property.
                            >>>
                            >>> I will send you what postcards I have here on file so you can review.
                            >>>
                            >>> Also, next time you are at Antietam NBP VC bookstore, pick up a copy
                            >>> of The
                            >>> Battlefield of Antietam, containing many vintage (turn of 20th century)
                            >>> photographs.
                            >>>
                            >>> Very respectfully,
                            >>> G E "Gerry" Mayers
                            >>> Confederate Signal Corps,
                            >>> Longstreet's Corps
                            >>>
                            >>
                            >>
                            >>
                            >>
                            >>
                            >>
                            >>
                            >>
                            >> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                            >> Yahoo! Groups Links
                            >>
                            >> a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
                            >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TalkAntietam/
                            >>
                            >> b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                            >> TalkAntietam-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                            >>
                            >> c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
                            >>
                            >>
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > Yahoo! Groups Links
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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                            >
                            > a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
                            > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TalkAntietam/
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                          • Stephen Recker
                            Are you talking about these? http://www.nps.gov/anti/postcards/Postcards.htm Stephen
                            Message 13 of 22 , Apr 7, 2005
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                              Are you talking about these?

                              http://www.nps.gov/anti/postcards/Postcards.htm

                              Stephen


                              On Thursday, April 7, 2005, at 03:21 PM, G E Mayers wrote:

                              >
                              > Tom,
                              >
                              > I think I might have found them on the NPS site. I will probably
                              > privately
                              > email them.
                              >
                              > They are turn of the century stuff though, so they are interesting
                              > from that
                              > viewpoint.
                              >
                              > Very respectfully,
                              > G E "Gerry" Mayers
                              > Confederate Signal Corps,
                              > Longstreet's Corps
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > ----- Original Message -----
                              > From: <rotbaron@...>
                              > To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                              > Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2005 3:18 PM
                              > Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Bloody Lane structures
                              >
                              >
                            • dickeyr46
                              I m new to the group, but have been watching and reading for some time. Please excuse my lengthy post, but your comment about telegraph lines peaked my
                              Message 14 of 22 , Apr 7, 2005
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                                I'm new to the group, but have been watching and reading for some
                                time. Please excuse my lengthy post, but your comment about telegraph
                                lines peaked my interest enough to join.

                                Several of Gardner's photos show telegraph poles, but none along
                                Hagerstown Pike, which I believe was the focal point of the original
                                comment. The wire is even visible in a few of the photos.

                                Several photos taken at the Middle Bridge show 3 telegraph poles. The
                                wire is visible in at least two. Catalog #583 is probably the best...
                                You can clearly see a pole at both banks of the creek at the south
                                side bridge wings. A third pole is visible in front of the Newcomer
                                house, this one on the north side of the road. I used high resolution
                                copies of the photo from the Library of Congress website. With a
                                little magnification, you can see the insulators on the poles and the
                                glint of sunlight from the wire that traces it from pole to pole. #610
                                is almost as good. Again you can see the three poles and the wire
                                emerging from behind the house roof in the right foreground to the
                                eastern most pole.

                                While Gardner's #582 focuses on the Newcomer mill, the house appears
                                in the left background with the pole clearly visible to its front.
                                #607 also shows the poles. The series of four Gardner took from the
                                west bank (# 572, 578, etc.) show the pole on the east bank above the
                                abutment.

                                Two of Gardner's photos taken in town show poles and wire. The photo
                                of the Lutheran Church, #596, shows the pole about midway between the
                                church and the first house to the right. It is on the bank of the
                                road, next to the picket fence. With some magnification, the wire is
                                visible on both sides of the pole.

                                The pole is not as easily picked out in #595 looking west down Main
                                Street, but it is there on the south side of the street. The right
                                side of this stereo is sharper. What had always seemed a hairline
                                crack or flaw in the plate is the wire… funny how that "flaw" seemed
                                to be on both halves of the stereo. Gardner must have been just a
                                little left of dead center under the wire when he took this one.
                                Looking just a little left of center at the top of the photo, a thin
                                black line moves down and to the left and ends at the pole. That's our
                                wire.

                                When was the telegraph put in? I don't know. Since all of the Middle
                                Bridge photos were made on Sept 22 and the 2 town photos were made on
                                Sept 21 or 22, McClellan had already moved his HQ from the Pry house
                                to west of town. Perhaps the telegraph was put in to support the new
                                location. Or, perhaps the telegraph had run from
                                Boonsboro-Keedysville-Sharpsburg all along.

                                --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, Stephen Recker <recker@v...> wrote:
                                > Tom,
                                >
                                > Actually, I was no doubt thinking of the photos I have seen from later
                                > in that century. I know of no accounts of telegraph lines being there
                                > at the time of the battle.
                                >
                              • G E Mayers
                                Yes, I think so! But also, there is a booklet you should still be able to purchase at Antietam NBP VC bookstore, which O C Reilly might originally been the
                                Message 15 of 22 , Apr 7, 2005
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                                  Yes, I think so!

                                  But also, there is a booklet you should still be able to purchase at
                                  Antietam NBP VC bookstore, which O C Reilly might originally been the
                                  publisher of. Very interesting pictures.

                                  Very respectfully,
                                  G E "Gerry" Mayers
                                  Confederate Signal Corps,
                                  Longstreet's Corps



                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                  From: "Stephen Recker" <recker@...>
                                  To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                                  Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2005 4:22 PM
                                  Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Bloody Lane structures


                                  > Are you talking about these?
                                  >
                                  > http://www.nps.gov/anti/postcards/Postcards.htm
                                  >
                                  > Stephen
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > On Thursday, April 7, 2005, at 03:21 PM, G E Mayers wrote:
                                  >
                                  >>
                                  >> Tom,
                                  >>
                                  >> I think I might have found them on the NPS site. I will probably
                                  >> privately
                                  >> email them.
                                  >>
                                  >> They are turn of the century stuff though, so they are interesting
                                  >> from that
                                  >> viewpoint.
                                  >>
                                  >> Very respectfully,
                                  >> G E "Gerry" Mayers
                                  >> Confederate Signal Corps,
                                  >> Longstreet's Corps
                                  >>
                                  >>
                                  >>
                                  >> ----- Original Message -----
                                  >> From: <rotbaron@...>
                                  >> To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                                  >> Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2005 3:18 PM
                                  >> Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Bloody Lane structures
                                  >>
                                  >>
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                  >
                                  > a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                  > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TalkAntietam/
                                  >
                                  > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                  > TalkAntietam-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                  >
                                  > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
                                  >
                                  >
                                • Stephen Recker
                                  This is really interesting. Thanks. Stephen
                                  Message 16 of 22 , Apr 7, 2005
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                                    This is really interesting. Thanks.

                                    Stephen

                                    On Thursday, April 7, 2005, at 04:58 PM, dickeyr46 wrote:

                                    >
                                    >
                                    > I'm new to the group, but have been watching and reading for some
                                    > time. Please excuse my lengthy post, but your comment about telegraph
                                    > lines peaked my interest enough to join.
                                    >
                                    > Several of Gardner's photos show telegraph poles, but none along
                                    > Hagerstown Pike, which I believe was the focal point of the original
                                    > comment. The wire is even visible in a few of the photos.
                                    >
                                    > Several photos taken at the Middle Bridge show 3 telegraph poles. The
                                    > wire is visible in at least two. Catalog #583 is probably the best...
                                    > You can clearly see a pole at both banks of the creek at the south
                                    > side bridge wings. A third pole is visible in front of the Newcomer
                                    > house, this one on the north side of the road. I used high resolution
                                    > copies of the photo from the Library of Congress website. With a
                                    > little magnification, you can see the insulators on the poles and the
                                    > glint of sunlight from the wire that traces it from pole to pole. #610
                                    > is almost as good. Again you can see the three poles and the wire
                                    > emerging from behind the house roof in the right foreground to the
                                    > eastern most pole.
                                    >
                                    > While Gardner's #582 focuses on the Newcomer mill, the house appears
                                    > in the left background with the pole clearly visible to its front.
                                    > #607 also shows the poles. The series of four Gardner took from the
                                    > west bank (# 572, 578, etc.) show the pole on the east bank above the
                                    > abutment.
                                    >
                                    > Two of Gardner's photos taken in town show poles and wire. The photo
                                    > of the Lutheran Church, #596, shows the pole about midway between the
                                    > church and the first house to the right. It is on the bank of the
                                    > road, next to the picket fence. With some magnification, the wire is
                                    > visible on both sides of the pole.
                                    >
                                    > The pole is not as easily picked out in #595 looking west down Main
                                    > Street, but it is there on the south side of the street. The right
                                    > side of this stereo is sharper. What had always seemed a hairline
                                    > crack or flaw in the plate is the wire… funny how that "flaw" seemed
                                    > to be on both halves of the stereo. Gardner must have been just a
                                    > little left of dead center under the wire when he took this one.
                                    > Looking just a little left of center at the top of the photo, a thin
                                    > black line moves down and to the left and ends at the pole. That's our
                                    > wire.
                                    >
                                    > When was the telegraph put in? I don't know. Since all of the Middle
                                    > Bridge photos were made on Sept 22 and the 2 town photos were made on
                                    > Sept 21 or 22, McClellan had already moved his HQ from the Pry house
                                    > to west of town. Perhaps the telegraph was put in to support the new
                                    > location. Or, perhaps the telegraph had run from
                                    > Boonsboro-Keedysville-Sharpsburg all along.
                                    >
                                    > --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, Stephen Recker <recker@v...>
                                    > wrote:
                                    >> Tom,
                                    >>
                                    >> Actually, I was no doubt thinking of the photos I have seen from later
                                    >> in that century. I know of no accounts of telegraph lines being there
                                    >> at the time of the battle.
                                    >>
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                  • richard@rcroker.com
                                    I LOVE the Bloody Lane photo! No tower, no monuments, no access road. It probably looks just like it did on September 15, 1862, back when it was called (I am
                                    Message 17 of 22 , Apr 8, 2005
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      I LOVE the Bloody Lane photo! No tower, no monuments, no access road. It
                                      probably looks just like it did on September 15, 1862, back when it was
                                      called (I am told) "Hog Trough Road."

                                      Richard Croker
                                      www.rcroker.com


                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                      From: "Stephen Recker" <recker@...>
                                      To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                                      Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2005 4:22 PM
                                      Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Bloody Lane structures


                                      >
                                      > Are you talking about these?
                                      >
                                      > http://www.nps.gov/anti/postcards/Postcards.htm
                                      >
                                      > Stephen
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > On Thursday, April 7, 2005, at 03:21 PM, G E Mayers wrote:
                                      >
                                      > >
                                      > > Tom,
                                      > >
                                      > > I think I might have found them on the NPS site. I will probably
                                      > > privately
                                      > > email them.
                                      > >
                                      > > They are turn of the century stuff though, so they are interesting
                                      > > from that
                                      > > viewpoint.
                                      > >
                                      > > Very respectfully,
                                      > > G E "Gerry" Mayers
                                      > > Confederate Signal Corps,
                                      > > Longstreet's Corps
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > > ----- Original Message -----
                                      > > From: <rotbaron@...>
                                      > > To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                                      > > Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2005 3:18 PM
                                      > > Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Bloody Lane structures
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                    • G E Mayers
                                      Dear Richard, The tower was put at its present site back in 1898, IIRC, by the War Dept. I think the view of the Bloody Lane did not go all the way up to the
                                      Message 18 of 22 , Apr 8, 2005
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        Dear Richard,

                                        The tower was put at its present site back in 1898, IIRC, by the War Dept. I
                                        think the view of the Bloody Lane did not go all the way up to the Tower or
                                        else the photo for the postcard was taken from the Tower.

                                        Very respectfully,
                                        G E "Gerry" Mayers
                                        Confederate Signal Corps,
                                        Longstreet's Corps



                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                        From: <richard@...>
                                        To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                                        Sent: Friday, April 08, 2005 7:01 AM
                                        Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Bloody Lane structures


                                        >I LOVE the Bloody Lane photo! No tower, no monuments, no access road. It
                                        > probably looks just like it did on September 15, 1862, back when it was
                                        > called (I am told) "Hog Trough Road."
                                        >
                                        > Richard Croker
                                        > www.rcroker.com
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > ----- Original Message -----
                                        > From: "Stephen Recker" <recker@...>
                                        > To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                                        > Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2005 4:22 PM
                                        > Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Bloody Lane structures
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >>
                                        >> Are you talking about these?
                                        >>
                                        >> http://www.nps.gov/anti/postcards/Postcards.htm
                                        >>
                                        >> Stephen
                                        >>
                                        >>
                                        >> On Thursday, April 7, 2005, at 03:21 PM, G E Mayers wrote:
                                        >>
                                        >> >
                                        >> > Tom,
                                        >> >
                                        >> > I think I might have found them on the NPS site. I will probably
                                        >> > privately
                                        >> > email them.
                                        >> >
                                        >> > They are turn of the century stuff though, so they are interesting
                                        >> > from that
                                        >> > viewpoint.
                                        >> >
                                        >> > Very respectfully,
                                        >> > G E "Gerry" Mayers
                                        >> > Confederate Signal Corps,
                                        >> > Longstreet's Corps
                                        >> >
                                        >> >
                                        >> >
                                        >> > ----- Original Message -----
                                        >> > From: <rotbaron@...>
                                        >> > To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                                        >> > Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2005 3:18 PM
                                        >> > Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Bloody Lane structures
                                        >> >
                                        >> >
                                        >>
                                        >>
                                        >>
                                        >>
                                        >>
                                        >>
                                        >> Yahoo! Groups Links
                                        >>
                                        >>
                                        >>
                                        >>
                                        >>
                                        >>
                                        >>
                                        >>
                                        >>
                                        >>
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                        > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                        >
                                        > a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                        > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TalkAntietam/
                                        >
                                        > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                        > TalkAntietam-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                        >
                                        > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
                                        >
                                        >
                                      • Thomas Clemens
                                        Thanks, I had not thought of those photos when we were talking about these lines. I am not sure when that line went in, but will look into it. Thomas G.
                                        Message 19 of 22 , Apr 8, 2005
                                        • 0 Attachment
                                          Thanks, I had not thought of those photos when we were talking about these lines. I am not sure when that line went in, but will look into it.


                                          Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
                                          Professor of History
                                          Hagerstown Community College



                                          >>> dickeyr46@... 4/7/2005 4:58:20 PM >>>


                                          I'm new to the group, but have been watching and reading for some
                                          time. Please excuse my lengthy post, but your comment about telegraph
                                          lines peaked my interest enough to join.

                                          Several of Gardner's photos show telegraph poles, but none along
                                          Hagerstown Pike, which I believe was the focal point of the original
                                          comment. The wire is even visible in a few of the photos.

                                          Several photos taken at the Middle Bridge show 3 telegraph poles. The
                                          wire is visible in at least two. Catalog #583 is probably the best...
                                          You can clearly see a pole at both banks of the creek at the south
                                          side bridge wings. A third pole is visible in front of the Newcomer
                                          house, this one on the north side of the road. I used high resolution
                                          copies of the photo from the Library of Congress website. With a
                                          little magnification, you can see the insulators on the poles and the
                                          glint of sunlight from the wire that traces it from pole to pole. #610
                                          is almost as good. Again you can see the three poles and the wire
                                          emerging from behind the house roof in the right foreground to the
                                          eastern most pole.

                                          While Gardner's #582 focuses on the Newcomer mill, the house appears
                                          in the left background with the pole clearly visible to its front.
                                          #607 also shows the poles. The series of four Gardner took from the
                                          west bank (# 572, 578, etc.) show the pole on the east bank above the
                                          abutment.

                                          Two of Gardner's photos taken in town show poles and wire. The photo
                                          of the Lutheran Church, #596, shows the pole about midway between the
                                          church and the first house to the right. It is on the bank of the
                                          road, next to the picket fence. With some magnification, the wire is
                                          visible on both sides of the pole.

                                          The pole is not as easily picked out in #595 looking west down Main
                                          Street, but it is there on the south side of the street. The right
                                          side of this stereo is sharper. What had always seemed a hairline
                                          crack or flaw in the plate is the wire* funny how that "flaw" seemed
                                          to be on both halves of the stereo. Gardner must have been just a
                                          little left of dead center under the wire when he took this one.
                                          Looking just a little left of center at the top of the photo, a thin
                                          black line moves down and to the left and ends at the pole. That's our
                                          wire.

                                          When was the telegraph put in? I don't know. Since all of the Middle
                                          Bridge photos were made on Sept 22 and the 2 town photos were made on
                                          Sept 21 or 22, McClellan had already moved his HQ from the Pry house
                                          to west of town. Perhaps the telegraph was put in to support the new
                                          location. Or, perhaps the telegraph had run from
                                          Boonsboro-Keedysville-Sharpsburg all along.

                                          --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, Stephen Recker <recker@v...> wrote:
                                          > Tom,
                                          >
                                          > Actually, I was no doubt thinking of the photos I have seen from later
                                          > in that century. I know of no accounts of telegraph lines being there
                                          > at the time of the battle.
                                          >










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