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Re: [TalkAntietam] Hagerstown Fence

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  • Stephen Recker
    I was out there today taking photos of that exact fence, trying got recreate the historical photo. Personally, I think the new fence is a good thing. I guess
    Message 1 of 22 , Apr 6, 2005
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      I was out there today taking photos of that exact fence, trying got
      recreate the historical photo. Personally, I think the new fence is a
      good thing. I guess you could make a case that it should've been
      six-rail, but then you'd have to macadamize the road and switch the
      phone lines for telegraph lines.

      Stephen Recker
      Hagerstown, MD





      On Wednesday, April 6, 2005, at 07:05 PM, david lutton wrote:

      >
      > I recall some postings concerning the new fence installed along the
      > Hagerstown pike. I was recently in Sharpsburg and was curious to see
      > how this work progressed.
      >
      > I was really saddened to see the results. Not only is the fence
      > inaccurate (if I can recall the Gardner photos, the fence in this
      > area of the field was six rails high not five), but the new fence is
      > not in its proper location. I understand that traffic in this area
      > presents a special problem but if I recall there are fences on both
      > sides of the road around the Mumma farm. So my basic question is if
      > the fence could not be placed in it's historic location why put a
      > fence there at all??
      >
      > With so many period fence lines and stone walls on the field that
      > need attention why waste funds on a historically inaccurate project
      > like this? Are Park Service funds so plentiful as to permit this
      > cosmetic project? What was the rational for it? I think that those
      > of us who are opposed to any new additions to the field such as new
      > monuments should be equally opposed to any frivolous additions like
      > this new fence.
      >
      > Battery B, 4th US played a significant role in this phase of the
      > contest and this new "fence" placed litterly in front of one of the
      > muzzles of the battery guns does them no service.
      >
      > Any comments?
    • richard@rcroker.com
      Stephen -- I like your attitude. You make me laugh. Richard ... From: Stephen Recker To: Sent:
      Message 2 of 22 , Apr 6, 2005
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        Stephen --

        I like your attitude. You make me laugh.

        Richard
        ----- Original Message -----
        From: "Stephen Recker" <recker@...>
        To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Wednesday, April 06, 2005 9:47 PM
        Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Hagerstown Fence


        >
        > I was out there today taking photos of that exact fence, trying got
        > recreate the historical photo. Personally, I think the new fence is a
        > good thing. I guess you could make a case that it should've been
        > six-rail, but then you'd have to macadamize the road and switch the
        > phone lines for telegraph lines.
        >
        > Stephen Recker
        > Hagerstown, MD
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > On Wednesday, April 6, 2005, at 07:05 PM, david lutton wrote:
        >
        > >
        > > I recall some postings concerning the new fence installed along the
        > > Hagerstown pike. I was recently in Sharpsburg and was curious to see
        > > how this work progressed.
        > >
        > > I was really saddened to see the results. Not only is the fence
        > > inaccurate (if I can recall the Gardner photos, the fence in this
        > > area of the field was six rails high not five), but the new fence is
        > > not in its proper location. I understand that traffic in this area
        > > presents a special problem but if I recall there are fences on both
        > > sides of the road around the Mumma farm. So my basic question is if
        > > the fence could not be placed in it's historic location why put a
        > > fence there at all??
        > >
        > > With so many period fence lines and stone walls on the field that
        > > need attention why waste funds on a historically inaccurate project
        > > like this? Are Park Service funds so plentiful as to permit this
        > > cosmetic project? What was the rational for it? I think that those
        > > of us who are opposed to any new additions to the field such as new
        > > monuments should be equally opposed to any frivolous additions like
        > > this new fence.
        > >
        > > Battery B, 4th US played a significant role in this phase of the
        > > contest and this new "fence" placed litterly in front of one of the
        > > muzzles of the battery guns does them no service.
        > >
        > > Any comments?
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
      • Thomas Clemens
        David, I share some of your concerns. SHAF offered over $8K to the NPs to replacethat fence. Monocacy just bought six rail and we offered to pay the
        Message 3 of 22 , Apr 7, 2005
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          David,
          I share some of your concerns. SHAF offered over $8K to the NPs to
          replacethat fence. Monocacy just bought six rail and we offered to pay
          the difference between five rail and six rail. We also asked for it to
          be placed close to the pavement to show the confining element of the
          turnpike as a factor in the battle.
          The problems are that the Hagerstown Pike throughthe battlefield is
          still a public-use roadway, and thus must have a shoulder for safett,
          etc. (Mumma Lane belongs soley to the NPS.) Also the NPS did not want
          to put six rail fence there, for reasons I don't fully understand. As a
          result we chose not to fund that portion of fence, but we gave the money
          to fund worm fence along Branch Ave. As always with the NPS, it is a
          compromise.

          And yes, resurfacing Hagerstown pike to its original look would be
          wonderful, but not practical at this point in time. Back in 1989 the
          GMP (General Management Plan) called for doing just that, creating a new
          access road and making the pike and Cornfield Ave. a walking-only path
          with a large plaza at the SW corner of the cornfield. Obviously that
          didn't happen either.

          And it is still my dream to one day remove all those ugly power lines
          through the heart of the fighting area. Steve, are you sure Sharpsburg
          had telegraph lines in 1862? I have never seen anyrecord of them
          existing, but on the other hand, that doesn't mean they didn't. My
          thought was that telegraph lines connected larger towns like Hagerstown,
          not farming communities like Sharpsburg. It would be fun to look at
          it.
          Tom Clemens




          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Stephen Recker
          Tom, Actually, I was no doubt thinking of the photos I have seen from later in that century. I know of no accounts of telegraph lines being there at the time
          Message 4 of 22 , Apr 7, 2005
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            Tom,

            Actually, I was no doubt thinking of the photos I have seen from later
            in that century. I know of no accounts of telegraph lines being there
            at the time of the battle.

            I agree it would be money well spent removing those phone lines. I have
            spent many hours airbrushing them out of photos.

            Stephen

            On Thursday, April 7, 2005, at 09:42 AM, Thomas Clemens wrote:

            > And it is still my dream to one day remove all those ugly power lines
            > through the heart of the fighting area. Steve, are you sure Sharpsburg
            > had telegraph lines in 1862? I have never seen any record of them
            > existing, but on the other hand, that doesn't mean they didn't. My
            > thought was that telegraph lines connected larger towns like
            > Hagerstown,
            > not farming communities like Sharpsburg. It would be fun to look at
            > it.
          • Stephen Recker
            I recently bought a postcard with a view of Bloody Lane when there was a superintendent s house and a store on it. This was a surprise to me. I had read the
            Message 5 of 22 , Apr 7, 2005
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              I recently bought a postcard with a view of Bloody Lane when there was
              a superintendent's house and a store on it. This was a surprise to me.
              I had read the stories in the park history book about the drunk,
              gun-wielding super that lived there, but hadn't seen a photo of his
              house. And I was certaily unaware of a store on the lane.

              Does anyone know of any close-up photos of those buildings or know when
              they were taken down? In the background of the postcard I can see what
              I believe is the VC being built. Thanks.

              Stephen Recker
            • G E Mayers
              Dear Stephen, I believe at one point there was a little snack stand somewhere near the Bloody Lane. Also, one post War photo shows a two story building
              Message 6 of 22 , Apr 7, 2005
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                Dear Stephen,

                I believe at one point there was a little snack stand somewhere near the
                Bloody Lane. Also, one post War photo shows a two story building abutting
                the fence on the Piper Farm property.

                I will send you what postcards I have here on file so you can review.

                Also, next time you are at Antietam NBP VC bookstore, pick up a copy of The
                Battlefield of Antietam, containing many vintage (turn of 20th century)
                photographs.

                Very respectfully,
                G E "Gerry" Mayers
                Confederate Signal Corps,
                Longstreet's Corps



                ----- Original Message -----
                From: "Stephen Recker" <recker@...>
                To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2005 10:07 AM
                Subject: [TalkAntietam] Bloody Lane structures


                >I recently bought a postcard with a view of Bloody Lane when there was
                > a superintendent's house and a store on it. This was a surprise to me.
                > I had read the stories in the park history book about the drunk,
                > gun-wielding super that lived there, but hadn't seen a photo of his
                > house. And I was certaily unaware of a store on the lane.
                >
                > Does anyone know of any close-up photos of those buildings or know when
                > they were taken down? In the background of the postcard I can see what
                > I believe is the VC being built. Thanks.
                >
                > Stephen Recker
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                >
                > a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
                > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TalkAntietam/
                >
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                >
                >


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Stephen Recker
                Gerry, Many thanks. Stephen
                Message 7 of 22 , Apr 7, 2005
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                  Gerry,

                  Many thanks.

                  Stephen

                  On Thursday, April 7, 2005, at 10:18 AM, G E Mayers wrote:

                  >
                  > Dear Stephen,
                  >
                  > I believe at one point there was a little snack stand somewhere near
                  > the
                  > Bloody Lane. Also, one post War photo shows a two story building
                  > abutting
                  > the fence on the Piper Farm property.
                  >
                  > I will send you what postcards I have here on file so you can review.
                  >
                  > Also, next time you are at Antietam NBP VC bookstore, pick up a copy
                  > of The
                  > Battlefield of Antietam, containing many vintage (turn of 20th century)
                  > photographs.
                  >
                  > Very respectfully,
                  > G E "Gerry" Mayers
                  > Confederate Signal Corps,
                  > Longstreet's Corps
                  >
                • G E Mayers
                  Stephen, Did you get the postcards? If not, email me privately and I will send what I have. Very respectfully, G E Gerry Mayers Confederate Signal Corps,
                  Message 8 of 22 , Apr 7, 2005
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                    Stephen,

                    Did you get the postcards? If not, email me privately and I will send what I
                    have.

                    Very respectfully,
                    G E "Gerry" Mayers
                    Confederate Signal Corps,
                    Longstreet's Corps



                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: "Stephen Recker" <recker@...>
                    To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                    Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2005 10:44 AM
                    Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Bloody Lane structures


                    > Gerry,
                    >
                    > Many thanks.
                    >
                    > Stephen
                    >
                    > On Thursday, April 7, 2005, at 10:18 AM, G E Mayers wrote:
                    >
                    >>
                    >> Dear Stephen,
                    >>
                    >> I believe at one point there was a little snack stand somewhere near
                    >> the
                    >> Bloody Lane. Also, one post War photo shows a two story building
                    >> abutting
                    >> the fence on the Piper Farm property.
                    >>
                    >> I will send you what postcards I have here on file so you can review.
                    >>
                    >> Also, next time you are at Antietam NBP VC bookstore, pick up a copy
                    >> of The
                    >> Battlefield of Antietam, containing many vintage (turn of 20th century)
                    >> photographs.
                    >>
                    >> Very respectfully,
                    >> G E "Gerry" Mayers
                    >> Confederate Signal Corps,
                    >> Longstreet's Corps
                    >>
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                    > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    >
                    > a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
                    > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TalkAntietam/
                    >
                    > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                    > TalkAntietam-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                    >
                    > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
                    >
                    >
                  • Thomas Clemens
                    That makes sense, no poles or wires in any Garner photos. We were on the verge of a fund-raising project to do that when Allegany Power went into financial
                    Message 9 of 22 , Apr 7, 2005
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                      That makes sense, no poles or wires in any Garner photos. We were on
                      the verge of a fund-raising project to do that when Allegany Power went
                      into financial turmoil and pulled out of the project. John Howard has
                      some funds allocated in a few years, and I would LOVE to start a
                      public/private match to fund their removal. It is pricey, about 1K per
                      foot! But worth every penny.
                      Would be very cool.
                      Tom Clemens

                      >>> recker@... 4/7/2005 10:03:33 AM >>>

                      Tom,

                      Actually, I was no doubt thinking of the photos I have seen from later

                      in that century. I know of no accounts of telegraph lines being there
                      at the time of the battle.

                      I agree it would be money well spent removing those phone lines. I have

                      spent many hours airbrushing them out of photos.

                      Stephen




                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Thomas Clemens
                      I don t know of photos, but remember the building. It sat amonst the trees in front ofthe 130th PA monument. It was log cabin, and they had a big stink about
                      Message 10 of 22 , Apr 7, 2005
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                        I don't know of photos, but remember the building. It sat amonst the
                        trees in front ofthe 130th PA monument. It was log cabin, and they had
                        a big stink about whether it was original or not to the battle. (Some
                        folks in Sharpsburg started a rumor it was there at the time.) It came
                        down in the late 70's I think. There was another house adjacent to the
                        Dunker Church that shared the same fate.
                        Tom C

                        >>> recker@... 4/7/2005 10:07:39 AM >>>

                        I recently bought a postcard with a view of Bloody Lane when there was

                        a superintendent's house and a store on it. This was a surprise to me.

                        I had read the stories in the park history book about the drunk,
                        gun-wielding super that lived there, but hadn't seen a photo of his
                        house. And I was certaily unaware of a store on the lane.

                        Does anyone know of any close-up photos of those buildings or know when

                        they were taken down? In the background of the postcard I can see what

                        I believe is the VC being built. Thanks.

                        Stephen Recker







                        Yahoo! Groups Links
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                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • G E Mayers
                        Tom Maybe The DOG, CWPT and other organizations might be willing to help. Very respectfully, G E Gerry Mayers Confederate Signal Corps, Longstreet s Corps
                        Message 11 of 22 , Apr 7, 2005
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                          Tom

                          Maybe The DOG, CWPT and other organizations might be willing to help.

                          Very respectfully,
                          G E "Gerry" Mayers
                          Confederate Signal Corps,
                          Longstreet's Corps



                          ----- Original Message -----
                          From: "Thomas Clemens" <clemenst@...>
                          To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                          Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2005 12:27 PM
                          Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Hagerstown Fence


                          > That makes sense, no poles or wires in any Garner photos. We were on
                          > the verge of a fund-raising project to do that when Allegany Power went
                          > into financial turmoil and pulled out of the project. John Howard has
                          > some funds allocated in a few years, and I would LOVE to start a
                          > public/private match to fund their removal. It is pricey, about 1K per
                          > foot! But worth every penny.
                          > Would be very cool.
                          > Tom Clemens
                          >
                          >>>> recker@... 4/7/2005 10:03:33 AM >>>
                          >
                          > Tom,
                          >
                          > Actually, I was no doubt thinking of the photos I have seen from later
                          >
                          > in that century. I know of no accounts of telegraph lines being there
                          > at the time of the battle.
                          >
                          > I agree it would be money well spent removing those phone lines. I have
                          >
                          > spent many hours airbrushing them out of photos.
                          >
                          > Stephen
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                          > Yahoo! Groups Links
                          >
                          > a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
                          > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TalkAntietam/
                          >
                          > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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                          >
                        • rotbaron@aol.com
                          Gerry, If you can email me the postcards, I d love to see them. Tom Shay ... From: G E Mayers To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thu,
                          Message 12 of 22 , Apr 7, 2005
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                            Gerry,
                            If you can email me the postcards, I'd love to see them.
                            Tom Shay

                            -----Original Message-----
                            From: G E Mayers <gerry1952@...>
                            To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                            Sent: Thu, 7 Apr 2005 10:49:49 -0400
                            Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Bloody Lane structures



                            Stephen,

                            Did you get the postcards? If not, email me privately and I will send what I
                            have.

                            Very respectfully,
                            G E "Gerry" Mayers
                            Confederate Signal Corps,
                            Longstreet's Corps



                            ----- Original Message -----
                            From: "Stephen Recker" <recker@...>
                            To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                            Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2005 10:44 AM
                            Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Bloody Lane structures


                            > Gerry,
                            >
                            > Many thanks.
                            >
                            > Stephen
                            >
                            > On Thursday, April 7, 2005, at 10:18 AM, G E Mayers wrote:
                            >
                            >>
                            >> Dear Stephen,
                            >>
                            >> I believe at one point there was a little snack stand somewhere near
                            >> the
                            >> Bloody Lane. Also, one post War photo shows a two story building
                            >> abutting
                            >> the fence on the Piper Farm property.
                            >>
                            >> I will send you what postcards I have here on file so you can review.
                            >>
                            >> Also, next time you are at Antietam NBP VC bookstore, pick up a copy
                            >> of The
                            >> Battlefield of Antietam, containing many vintage (turn of 20th century)
                            >> photographs.
                            >>
                            >> Very respectfully,
                            >> G E "Gerry" Mayers
                            >> Confederate Signal Corps,
                            >> Longstreet's Corps
                            >>
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                            > Yahoo! Groups Links
                            >
                            > a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
                            > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TalkAntietam/
                            >
                            > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                            > TalkAntietam-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                            >
                            > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
                            >
                            >






                            Yahoo! Groups Links






                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • G E Mayers
                            Tom, I think I might have found them on the NPS site. I will probably privately email them. They are turn of the century stuff though, so they are interesting
                            Message 13 of 22 , Apr 7, 2005
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                              Tom,

                              I think I might have found them on the NPS site. I will probably privately
                              email them.

                              They are turn of the century stuff though, so they are interesting from that
                              viewpoint.

                              Very respectfully,
                              G E "Gerry" Mayers
                              Confederate Signal Corps,
                              Longstreet's Corps



                              ----- Original Message -----
                              From: <rotbaron@...>
                              To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                              Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2005 3:18 PM
                              Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Bloody Lane structures


                              > Gerry,
                              > If you can email me the postcards, I'd love to see them.
                              > Tom Shay
                              >
                              > -----Original Message-----
                              > From: G E Mayers <gerry1952@...>
                              > To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                              > Sent: Thu, 7 Apr 2005 10:49:49 -0400
                              > Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Bloody Lane structures
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > Stephen,
                              >
                              > Did you get the postcards? If not, email me privately and I will send what
                              > I
                              > have.
                              >
                              > Very respectfully,
                              > G E "Gerry" Mayers
                              > Confederate Signal Corps,
                              > Longstreet's Corps
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > ----- Original Message -----
                              > From: "Stephen Recker" <recker@...>
                              > To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                              > Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2005 10:44 AM
                              > Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Bloody Lane structures
                              >
                              >
                              >> Gerry,
                              >>
                              >> Many thanks.
                              >>
                              >> Stephen
                              >>
                              >> On Thursday, April 7, 2005, at 10:18 AM, G E Mayers wrote:
                              >>
                              >>>
                              >>> Dear Stephen,
                              >>>
                              >>> I believe at one point there was a little snack stand somewhere near
                              >>> the
                              >>> Bloody Lane. Also, one post War photo shows a two story building
                              >>> abutting
                              >>> the fence on the Piper Farm property.
                              >>>
                              >>> I will send you what postcards I have here on file so you can review.
                              >>>
                              >>> Also, next time you are at Antietam NBP VC bookstore, pick up a copy
                              >>> of The
                              >>> Battlefield of Antietam, containing many vintage (turn of 20th century)
                              >>> photographs.
                              >>>
                              >>> Very respectfully,
                              >>> G E "Gerry" Mayers
                              >>> Confederate Signal Corps,
                              >>> Longstreet's Corps
                              >>>
                              >>
                              >>
                              >>
                              >>
                              >>
                              >>
                              >>
                              >>
                              >> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                              >> Yahoo! Groups Links
                              >>
                              >> a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
                              >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TalkAntietam/
                              >>
                              >> b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                              >> TalkAntietam-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                              >>
                              >> c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
                              >>
                              >>
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > Yahoo! Groups Links
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                              > Yahoo! Groups Links
                              >
                              > a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
                              > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TalkAntietam/
                              >
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                            • Stephen Recker
                              Are you talking about these? http://www.nps.gov/anti/postcards/Postcards.htm Stephen
                              Message 14 of 22 , Apr 7, 2005
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                                Are you talking about these?

                                http://www.nps.gov/anti/postcards/Postcards.htm

                                Stephen


                                On Thursday, April 7, 2005, at 03:21 PM, G E Mayers wrote:

                                >
                                > Tom,
                                >
                                > I think I might have found them on the NPS site. I will probably
                                > privately
                                > email them.
                                >
                                > They are turn of the century stuff though, so they are interesting
                                > from that
                                > viewpoint.
                                >
                                > Very respectfully,
                                > G E "Gerry" Mayers
                                > Confederate Signal Corps,
                                > Longstreet's Corps
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > ----- Original Message -----
                                > From: <rotbaron@...>
                                > To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                                > Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2005 3:18 PM
                                > Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Bloody Lane structures
                                >
                                >
                              • dickeyr46
                                I m new to the group, but have been watching and reading for some time. Please excuse my lengthy post, but your comment about telegraph lines peaked my
                                Message 15 of 22 , Apr 7, 2005
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                                  I'm new to the group, but have been watching and reading for some
                                  time. Please excuse my lengthy post, but your comment about telegraph
                                  lines peaked my interest enough to join.

                                  Several of Gardner's photos show telegraph poles, but none along
                                  Hagerstown Pike, which I believe was the focal point of the original
                                  comment. The wire is even visible in a few of the photos.

                                  Several photos taken at the Middle Bridge show 3 telegraph poles. The
                                  wire is visible in at least two. Catalog #583 is probably the best...
                                  You can clearly see a pole at both banks of the creek at the south
                                  side bridge wings. A third pole is visible in front of the Newcomer
                                  house, this one on the north side of the road. I used high resolution
                                  copies of the photo from the Library of Congress website. With a
                                  little magnification, you can see the insulators on the poles and the
                                  glint of sunlight from the wire that traces it from pole to pole. #610
                                  is almost as good. Again you can see the three poles and the wire
                                  emerging from behind the house roof in the right foreground to the
                                  eastern most pole.

                                  While Gardner's #582 focuses on the Newcomer mill, the house appears
                                  in the left background with the pole clearly visible to its front.
                                  #607 also shows the poles. The series of four Gardner took from the
                                  west bank (# 572, 578, etc.) show the pole on the east bank above the
                                  abutment.

                                  Two of Gardner's photos taken in town show poles and wire. The photo
                                  of the Lutheran Church, #596, shows the pole about midway between the
                                  church and the first house to the right. It is on the bank of the
                                  road, next to the picket fence. With some magnification, the wire is
                                  visible on both sides of the pole.

                                  The pole is not as easily picked out in #595 looking west down Main
                                  Street, but it is there on the south side of the street. The right
                                  side of this stereo is sharper. What had always seemed a hairline
                                  crack or flaw in the plate is the wire… funny how that "flaw" seemed
                                  to be on both halves of the stereo. Gardner must have been just a
                                  little left of dead center under the wire when he took this one.
                                  Looking just a little left of center at the top of the photo, a thin
                                  black line moves down and to the left and ends at the pole. That's our
                                  wire.

                                  When was the telegraph put in? I don't know. Since all of the Middle
                                  Bridge photos were made on Sept 22 and the 2 town photos were made on
                                  Sept 21 or 22, McClellan had already moved his HQ from the Pry house
                                  to west of town. Perhaps the telegraph was put in to support the new
                                  location. Or, perhaps the telegraph had run from
                                  Boonsboro-Keedysville-Sharpsburg all along.

                                  --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, Stephen Recker <recker@v...> wrote:
                                  > Tom,
                                  >
                                  > Actually, I was no doubt thinking of the photos I have seen from later
                                  > in that century. I know of no accounts of telegraph lines being there
                                  > at the time of the battle.
                                  >
                                • G E Mayers
                                  Yes, I think so! But also, there is a booklet you should still be able to purchase at Antietam NBP VC bookstore, which O C Reilly might originally been the
                                  Message 16 of 22 , Apr 7, 2005
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    Yes, I think so!

                                    But also, there is a booklet you should still be able to purchase at
                                    Antietam NBP VC bookstore, which O C Reilly might originally been the
                                    publisher of. Very interesting pictures.

                                    Very respectfully,
                                    G E "Gerry" Mayers
                                    Confederate Signal Corps,
                                    Longstreet's Corps



                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                    From: "Stephen Recker" <recker@...>
                                    To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                                    Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2005 4:22 PM
                                    Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Bloody Lane structures


                                    > Are you talking about these?
                                    >
                                    > http://www.nps.gov/anti/postcards/Postcards.htm
                                    >
                                    > Stephen
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > On Thursday, April 7, 2005, at 03:21 PM, G E Mayers wrote:
                                    >
                                    >>
                                    >> Tom,
                                    >>
                                    >> I think I might have found them on the NPS site. I will probably
                                    >> privately
                                    >> email them.
                                    >>
                                    >> They are turn of the century stuff though, so they are interesting
                                    >> from that
                                    >> viewpoint.
                                    >>
                                    >> Very respectfully,
                                    >> G E "Gerry" Mayers
                                    >> Confederate Signal Corps,
                                    >> Longstreet's Corps
                                    >>
                                    >>
                                    >>
                                    >> ----- Original Message -----
                                    >> From: <rotbaron@...>
                                    >> To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                                    >> Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2005 3:18 PM
                                    >> Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Bloody Lane structures
                                    >>
                                    >>
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                    > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                    >
                                    > a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                    > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TalkAntietam/
                                    >
                                    > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                    > TalkAntietam-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                    >
                                    > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
                                    >
                                    >
                                  • Stephen Recker
                                    This is really interesting. Thanks. Stephen
                                    Message 17 of 22 , Apr 7, 2005
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      This is really interesting. Thanks.

                                      Stephen

                                      On Thursday, April 7, 2005, at 04:58 PM, dickeyr46 wrote:

                                      >
                                      >
                                      > I'm new to the group, but have been watching and reading for some
                                      > time. Please excuse my lengthy post, but your comment about telegraph
                                      > lines peaked my interest enough to join.
                                      >
                                      > Several of Gardner's photos show telegraph poles, but none along
                                      > Hagerstown Pike, which I believe was the focal point of the original
                                      > comment. The wire is even visible in a few of the photos.
                                      >
                                      > Several photos taken at the Middle Bridge show 3 telegraph poles. The
                                      > wire is visible in at least two. Catalog #583 is probably the best...
                                      > You can clearly see a pole at both banks of the creek at the south
                                      > side bridge wings. A third pole is visible in front of the Newcomer
                                      > house, this one on the north side of the road. I used high resolution
                                      > copies of the photo from the Library of Congress website. With a
                                      > little magnification, you can see the insulators on the poles and the
                                      > glint of sunlight from the wire that traces it from pole to pole. #610
                                      > is almost as good. Again you can see the three poles and the wire
                                      > emerging from behind the house roof in the right foreground to the
                                      > eastern most pole.
                                      >
                                      > While Gardner's #582 focuses on the Newcomer mill, the house appears
                                      > in the left background with the pole clearly visible to its front.
                                      > #607 also shows the poles. The series of four Gardner took from the
                                      > west bank (# 572, 578, etc.) show the pole on the east bank above the
                                      > abutment.
                                      >
                                      > Two of Gardner's photos taken in town show poles and wire. The photo
                                      > of the Lutheran Church, #596, shows the pole about midway between the
                                      > church and the first house to the right. It is on the bank of the
                                      > road, next to the picket fence. With some magnification, the wire is
                                      > visible on both sides of the pole.
                                      >
                                      > The pole is not as easily picked out in #595 looking west down Main
                                      > Street, but it is there on the south side of the street. The right
                                      > side of this stereo is sharper. What had always seemed a hairline
                                      > crack or flaw in the plate is the wire… funny how that "flaw" seemed
                                      > to be on both halves of the stereo. Gardner must have been just a
                                      > little left of dead center under the wire when he took this one.
                                      > Looking just a little left of center at the top of the photo, a thin
                                      > black line moves down and to the left and ends at the pole. That's our
                                      > wire.
                                      >
                                      > When was the telegraph put in? I don't know. Since all of the Middle
                                      > Bridge photos were made on Sept 22 and the 2 town photos were made on
                                      > Sept 21 or 22, McClellan had already moved his HQ from the Pry house
                                      > to west of town. Perhaps the telegraph was put in to support the new
                                      > location. Or, perhaps the telegraph had run from
                                      > Boonsboro-Keedysville-Sharpsburg all along.
                                      >
                                      > --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, Stephen Recker <recker@v...>
                                      > wrote:
                                      >> Tom,
                                      >>
                                      >> Actually, I was no doubt thinking of the photos I have seen from later
                                      >> in that century. I know of no accounts of telegraph lines being there
                                      >> at the time of the battle.
                                      >>
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                    • richard@rcroker.com
                                      I LOVE the Bloody Lane photo! No tower, no monuments, no access road. It probably looks just like it did on September 15, 1862, back when it was called (I am
                                      Message 18 of 22 , Apr 8, 2005
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        I LOVE the Bloody Lane photo! No tower, no monuments, no access road. It
                                        probably looks just like it did on September 15, 1862, back when it was
                                        called (I am told) "Hog Trough Road."

                                        Richard Croker
                                        www.rcroker.com


                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                        From: "Stephen Recker" <recker@...>
                                        To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                                        Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2005 4:22 PM
                                        Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Bloody Lane structures


                                        >
                                        > Are you talking about these?
                                        >
                                        > http://www.nps.gov/anti/postcards/Postcards.htm
                                        >
                                        > Stephen
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > On Thursday, April 7, 2005, at 03:21 PM, G E Mayers wrote:
                                        >
                                        > >
                                        > > Tom,
                                        > >
                                        > > I think I might have found them on the NPS site. I will probably
                                        > > privately
                                        > > email them.
                                        > >
                                        > > They are turn of the century stuff though, so they are interesting
                                        > > from that
                                        > > viewpoint.
                                        > >
                                        > > Very respectfully,
                                        > > G E "Gerry" Mayers
                                        > > Confederate Signal Corps,
                                        > > Longstreet's Corps
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > > ----- Original Message -----
                                        > > From: <rotbaron@...>
                                        > > To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                                        > > Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2005 3:18 PM
                                        > > Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Bloody Lane structures
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                      • G E Mayers
                                        Dear Richard, The tower was put at its present site back in 1898, IIRC, by the War Dept. I think the view of the Bloody Lane did not go all the way up to the
                                        Message 19 of 22 , Apr 8, 2005
                                        • 0 Attachment
                                          Dear Richard,

                                          The tower was put at its present site back in 1898, IIRC, by the War Dept. I
                                          think the view of the Bloody Lane did not go all the way up to the Tower or
                                          else the photo for the postcard was taken from the Tower.

                                          Very respectfully,
                                          G E "Gerry" Mayers
                                          Confederate Signal Corps,
                                          Longstreet's Corps



                                          ----- Original Message -----
                                          From: <richard@...>
                                          To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                                          Sent: Friday, April 08, 2005 7:01 AM
                                          Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Bloody Lane structures


                                          >I LOVE the Bloody Lane photo! No tower, no monuments, no access road. It
                                          > probably looks just like it did on September 15, 1862, back when it was
                                          > called (I am told) "Hog Trough Road."
                                          >
                                          > Richard Croker
                                          > www.rcroker.com
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > ----- Original Message -----
                                          > From: "Stephen Recker" <recker@...>
                                          > To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                                          > Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2005 4:22 PM
                                          > Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Bloody Lane structures
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >>
                                          >> Are you talking about these?
                                          >>
                                          >> http://www.nps.gov/anti/postcards/Postcards.htm
                                          >>
                                          >> Stephen
                                          >>
                                          >>
                                          >> On Thursday, April 7, 2005, at 03:21 PM, G E Mayers wrote:
                                          >>
                                          >> >
                                          >> > Tom,
                                          >> >
                                          >> > I think I might have found them on the NPS site. I will probably
                                          >> > privately
                                          >> > email them.
                                          >> >
                                          >> > They are turn of the century stuff though, so they are interesting
                                          >> > from that
                                          >> > viewpoint.
                                          >> >
                                          >> > Very respectfully,
                                          >> > G E "Gerry" Mayers
                                          >> > Confederate Signal Corps,
                                          >> > Longstreet's Corps
                                          >> >
                                          >> >
                                          >> >
                                          >> > ----- Original Message -----
                                          >> > From: <rotbaron@...>
                                          >> > To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                                          >> > Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2005 3:18 PM
                                          >> > Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Bloody Lane structures
                                          >> >
                                          >> >
                                          >>
                                          >>
                                          >>
                                          >>
                                          >>
                                          >>
                                          >> Yahoo! Groups Links
                                          >>
                                          >>
                                          >>
                                          >>
                                          >>
                                          >>
                                          >>
                                          >>
                                          >>
                                          >>
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                          > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                          >
                                          > a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                          > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TalkAntietam/
                                          >
                                          > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                          > TalkAntietam-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                          >
                                          > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
                                          >
                                          >
                                        • Thomas Clemens
                                          Thanks, I had not thought of those photos when we were talking about these lines. I am not sure when that line went in, but will look into it. Thomas G.
                                          Message 20 of 22 , Apr 8, 2005
                                          • 0 Attachment
                                            Thanks, I had not thought of those photos when we were talking about these lines. I am not sure when that line went in, but will look into it.


                                            Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
                                            Professor of History
                                            Hagerstown Community College



                                            >>> dickeyr46@... 4/7/2005 4:58:20 PM >>>


                                            I'm new to the group, but have been watching and reading for some
                                            time. Please excuse my lengthy post, but your comment about telegraph
                                            lines peaked my interest enough to join.

                                            Several of Gardner's photos show telegraph poles, but none along
                                            Hagerstown Pike, which I believe was the focal point of the original
                                            comment. The wire is even visible in a few of the photos.

                                            Several photos taken at the Middle Bridge show 3 telegraph poles. The
                                            wire is visible in at least two. Catalog #583 is probably the best...
                                            You can clearly see a pole at both banks of the creek at the south
                                            side bridge wings. A third pole is visible in front of the Newcomer
                                            house, this one on the north side of the road. I used high resolution
                                            copies of the photo from the Library of Congress website. With a
                                            little magnification, you can see the insulators on the poles and the
                                            glint of sunlight from the wire that traces it from pole to pole. #610
                                            is almost as good. Again you can see the three poles and the wire
                                            emerging from behind the house roof in the right foreground to the
                                            eastern most pole.

                                            While Gardner's #582 focuses on the Newcomer mill, the house appears
                                            in the left background with the pole clearly visible to its front.
                                            #607 also shows the poles. The series of four Gardner took from the
                                            west bank (# 572, 578, etc.) show the pole on the east bank above the
                                            abutment.

                                            Two of Gardner's photos taken in town show poles and wire. The photo
                                            of the Lutheran Church, #596, shows the pole about midway between the
                                            church and the first house to the right. It is on the bank of the
                                            road, next to the picket fence. With some magnification, the wire is
                                            visible on both sides of the pole.

                                            The pole is not as easily picked out in #595 looking west down Main
                                            Street, but it is there on the south side of the street. The right
                                            side of this stereo is sharper. What had always seemed a hairline
                                            crack or flaw in the plate is the wire* funny how that "flaw" seemed
                                            to be on both halves of the stereo. Gardner must have been just a
                                            little left of dead center under the wire when he took this one.
                                            Looking just a little left of center at the top of the photo, a thin
                                            black line moves down and to the left and ends at the pole. That's our
                                            wire.

                                            When was the telegraph put in? I don't know. Since all of the Middle
                                            Bridge photos were made on Sept 22 and the 2 town photos were made on
                                            Sept 21 or 22, McClellan had already moved his HQ from the Pry house
                                            to west of town. Perhaps the telegraph was put in to support the new
                                            location. Or, perhaps the telegraph had run from
                                            Boonsboro-Keedysville-Sharpsburg all along.

                                            --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, Stephen Recker <recker@v...> wrote:
                                            > Tom,
                                            >
                                            > Actually, I was no doubt thinking of the photos I have seen from later
                                            > in that century. I know of no accounts of telegraph lines being there
                                            > at the time of the battle.
                                            >










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