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Hagerstown Fence

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  • david lutton
    I recall some postings concerning the new fence installed along the Hagerstown pike. I was recently in Sharpsburg and was curious to see how this work
    Message 1 of 22 , Apr 6, 2005
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      I recall some postings concerning the new fence installed along the Hagerstown pike. I was recently in Sharpsburg and was curious to see how this work progressed.

      I was really saddened to see the results. Not only is the fence inaccurate (if I can recall the Gardner photos, the fence in this area of the field was six rails high not five), but the new fence is not in its proper location. I understand that traffic in this area presents a special problem but if I recall there are fences on both sides of the road around the Mumma farm. So my basic question is if the fence could not be placed in it's historic location why put a fence there at all??

      With so many period fence lines and stone walls on the field that need attention why waste funds on a historically inaccurate project like this? Are Park Service funds so plentiful as to permit this cosmetic project? What was the rational for it? I think that those of us who are opposed to any new additions to the field such as new monuments should be equally opposed to any frivolous additions like this new fence.

      Battery B, 4th US played a significant role in this phase of the contest and this new "fence" placed litterly in front of one of the muzzles of the battery guns does them no service.

      Any comments?


      David Lutton
      Hollidaysburg Pa

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • richard@rcroker.com
      They were actually some pretty famous rails. The point of Gibbon manning the gun himself, turning the screw himself, was to aim the cannon almost directly
      Message 2 of 22 , Apr 6, 2005
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        They were actually some pretty famous rails. The point of Gibbon manning
        the gun himself, turning the screw himself, was to aim the cannon almost
        directly into the ground so that the cannister pellets would graze the
        ground and bounce up into the faces of Hood's Texans taking dirt, rocks and
        splinters from the rails along with them. Did the trick.
        And then there's Little Johnnie Cook, but that's a story for another day.


        ----- Original Message -----
        From: "david lutton" <dunkerch@...>
        To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Wednesday, April 06, 2005 7:05 PM
        Subject: [TalkAntietam] Hagerstown Fence


        >
        > I recall some postings concerning the new fence installed along the
        Hagerstown pike. I was recently in Sharpsburg and was curious to see how
        this work progressed.
        >
        > I was really saddened to see the results. Not only is the fence
        inaccurate (if I can recall the Gardner photos, the fence in this area of
        the field was six rails high not five), but the new fence is not in its
        proper location. I understand that traffic in this area presents a special
        problem but if I recall there are fences on both sides of the road around
        the Mumma farm. So my basic question is if the fence could not be placed
        in it's historic location why put a fence there at all??
        >
        > With so many period fence lines and stone walls on the field that need
        attention why waste funds on a historically inaccurate project like this?
        Are Park Service funds so plentiful as to permit this cosmetic project?
        What was the rational for it? I think that those of us who are opposed to
        any new additions to the field such as new monuments should be equally
        opposed to any frivolous additions like this new fence.
        >
        > Battery B, 4th US played a significant role in this phase of the contest
        and this new "fence" placed litterly in front of one of the muzzles of the
        battery guns does them no service.
        >
        > Any comments?
        >
        >
        > David Lutton
        > Hollidaysburg Pa
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
        >
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        > Yahoo! Groups Links
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      • Stephen Recker
        I was out there today taking photos of that exact fence, trying got recreate the historical photo. Personally, I think the new fence is a good thing. I guess
        Message 3 of 22 , Apr 6, 2005
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          I was out there today taking photos of that exact fence, trying got
          recreate the historical photo. Personally, I think the new fence is a
          good thing. I guess you could make a case that it should've been
          six-rail, but then you'd have to macadamize the road and switch the
          phone lines for telegraph lines.

          Stephen Recker
          Hagerstown, MD





          On Wednesday, April 6, 2005, at 07:05 PM, david lutton wrote:

          >
          > I recall some postings concerning the new fence installed along the
          > Hagerstown pike. I was recently in Sharpsburg and was curious to see
          > how this work progressed.
          >
          > I was really saddened to see the results. Not only is the fence
          > inaccurate (if I can recall the Gardner photos, the fence in this
          > area of the field was six rails high not five), but the new fence is
          > not in its proper location. I understand that traffic in this area
          > presents a special problem but if I recall there are fences on both
          > sides of the road around the Mumma farm. So my basic question is if
          > the fence could not be placed in it's historic location why put a
          > fence there at all??
          >
          > With so many period fence lines and stone walls on the field that
          > need attention why waste funds on a historically inaccurate project
          > like this? Are Park Service funds so plentiful as to permit this
          > cosmetic project? What was the rational for it? I think that those
          > of us who are opposed to any new additions to the field such as new
          > monuments should be equally opposed to any frivolous additions like
          > this new fence.
          >
          > Battery B, 4th US played a significant role in this phase of the
          > contest and this new "fence" placed litterly in front of one of the
          > muzzles of the battery guns does them no service.
          >
          > Any comments?
        • richard@rcroker.com
          Stephen -- I like your attitude. You make me laugh. Richard ... From: Stephen Recker To: Sent:
          Message 4 of 22 , Apr 6, 2005
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            Stephen --

            I like your attitude. You make me laugh.

            Richard
            ----- Original Message -----
            From: "Stephen Recker" <recker@...>
            To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Wednesday, April 06, 2005 9:47 PM
            Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Hagerstown Fence


            >
            > I was out there today taking photos of that exact fence, trying got
            > recreate the historical photo. Personally, I think the new fence is a
            > good thing. I guess you could make a case that it should've been
            > six-rail, but then you'd have to macadamize the road and switch the
            > phone lines for telegraph lines.
            >
            > Stephen Recker
            > Hagerstown, MD
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > On Wednesday, April 6, 2005, at 07:05 PM, david lutton wrote:
            >
            > >
            > > I recall some postings concerning the new fence installed along the
            > > Hagerstown pike. I was recently in Sharpsburg and was curious to see
            > > how this work progressed.
            > >
            > > I was really saddened to see the results. Not only is the fence
            > > inaccurate (if I can recall the Gardner photos, the fence in this
            > > area of the field was six rails high not five), but the new fence is
            > > not in its proper location. I understand that traffic in this area
            > > presents a special problem but if I recall there are fences on both
            > > sides of the road around the Mumma farm. So my basic question is if
            > > the fence could not be placed in it's historic location why put a
            > > fence there at all??
            > >
            > > With so many period fence lines and stone walls on the field that
            > > need attention why waste funds on a historically inaccurate project
            > > like this? Are Park Service funds so plentiful as to permit this
            > > cosmetic project? What was the rational for it? I think that those
            > > of us who are opposed to any new additions to the field such as new
            > > monuments should be equally opposed to any frivolous additions like
            > > this new fence.
            > >
            > > Battery B, 4th US played a significant role in this phase of the
            > > contest and this new "fence" placed litterly in front of one of the
            > > muzzles of the battery guns does them no service.
            > >
            > > Any comments?
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > Yahoo! Groups Links
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          • Thomas Clemens
            David, I share some of your concerns. SHAF offered over $8K to the NPs to replacethat fence. Monocacy just bought six rail and we offered to pay the
            Message 5 of 22 , Apr 7, 2005
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              David,
              I share some of your concerns. SHAF offered over $8K to the NPs to
              replacethat fence. Monocacy just bought six rail and we offered to pay
              the difference between five rail and six rail. We also asked for it to
              be placed close to the pavement to show the confining element of the
              turnpike as a factor in the battle.
              The problems are that the Hagerstown Pike throughthe battlefield is
              still a public-use roadway, and thus must have a shoulder for safett,
              etc. (Mumma Lane belongs soley to the NPS.) Also the NPS did not want
              to put six rail fence there, for reasons I don't fully understand. As a
              result we chose not to fund that portion of fence, but we gave the money
              to fund worm fence along Branch Ave. As always with the NPS, it is a
              compromise.

              And yes, resurfacing Hagerstown pike to its original look would be
              wonderful, but not practical at this point in time. Back in 1989 the
              GMP (General Management Plan) called for doing just that, creating a new
              access road and making the pike and Cornfield Ave. a walking-only path
              with a large plaza at the SW corner of the cornfield. Obviously that
              didn't happen either.

              And it is still my dream to one day remove all those ugly power lines
              through the heart of the fighting area. Steve, are you sure Sharpsburg
              had telegraph lines in 1862? I have never seen anyrecord of them
              existing, but on the other hand, that doesn't mean they didn't. My
              thought was that telegraph lines connected larger towns like Hagerstown,
              not farming communities like Sharpsburg. It would be fun to look at
              it.
              Tom Clemens




              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Stephen Recker
              Tom, Actually, I was no doubt thinking of the photos I have seen from later in that century. I know of no accounts of telegraph lines being there at the time
              Message 6 of 22 , Apr 7, 2005
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                Tom,

                Actually, I was no doubt thinking of the photos I have seen from later
                in that century. I know of no accounts of telegraph lines being there
                at the time of the battle.

                I agree it would be money well spent removing those phone lines. I have
                spent many hours airbrushing them out of photos.

                Stephen

                On Thursday, April 7, 2005, at 09:42 AM, Thomas Clemens wrote:

                > And it is still my dream to one day remove all those ugly power lines
                > through the heart of the fighting area. Steve, are you sure Sharpsburg
                > had telegraph lines in 1862? I have never seen any record of them
                > existing, but on the other hand, that doesn't mean they didn't. My
                > thought was that telegraph lines connected larger towns like
                > Hagerstown,
                > not farming communities like Sharpsburg. It would be fun to look at
                > it.
              • Stephen Recker
                I recently bought a postcard with a view of Bloody Lane when there was a superintendent s house and a store on it. This was a surprise to me. I had read the
                Message 7 of 22 , Apr 7, 2005
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                  I recently bought a postcard with a view of Bloody Lane when there was
                  a superintendent's house and a store on it. This was a surprise to me.
                  I had read the stories in the park history book about the drunk,
                  gun-wielding super that lived there, but hadn't seen a photo of his
                  house. And I was certaily unaware of a store on the lane.

                  Does anyone know of any close-up photos of those buildings or know when
                  they were taken down? In the background of the postcard I can see what
                  I believe is the VC being built. Thanks.

                  Stephen Recker
                • G E Mayers
                  Dear Stephen, I believe at one point there was a little snack stand somewhere near the Bloody Lane. Also, one post War photo shows a two story building
                  Message 8 of 22 , Apr 7, 2005
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                    Dear Stephen,

                    I believe at one point there was a little snack stand somewhere near the
                    Bloody Lane. Also, one post War photo shows a two story building abutting
                    the fence on the Piper Farm property.

                    I will send you what postcards I have here on file so you can review.

                    Also, next time you are at Antietam NBP VC bookstore, pick up a copy of The
                    Battlefield of Antietam, containing many vintage (turn of 20th century)
                    photographs.

                    Very respectfully,
                    G E "Gerry" Mayers
                    Confederate Signal Corps,
                    Longstreet's Corps



                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: "Stephen Recker" <recker@...>
                    To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                    Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2005 10:07 AM
                    Subject: [TalkAntietam] Bloody Lane structures


                    >I recently bought a postcard with a view of Bloody Lane when there was
                    > a superintendent's house and a store on it. This was a surprise to me.
                    > I had read the stories in the park history book about the drunk,
                    > gun-wielding super that lived there, but hadn't seen a photo of his
                    > house. And I was certaily unaware of a store on the lane.
                    >
                    > Does anyone know of any close-up photos of those buildings or know when
                    > they were taken down? In the background of the postcard I can see what
                    > I believe is the VC being built. Thanks.
                    >
                    > Stephen Recker
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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                    >


                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Stephen Recker
                    Gerry, Many thanks. Stephen
                    Message 9 of 22 , Apr 7, 2005
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                      Gerry,

                      Many thanks.

                      Stephen

                      On Thursday, April 7, 2005, at 10:18 AM, G E Mayers wrote:

                      >
                      > Dear Stephen,
                      >
                      > I believe at one point there was a little snack stand somewhere near
                      > the
                      > Bloody Lane. Also, one post War photo shows a two story building
                      > abutting
                      > the fence on the Piper Farm property.
                      >
                      > I will send you what postcards I have here on file so you can review.
                      >
                      > Also, next time you are at Antietam NBP VC bookstore, pick up a copy
                      > of The
                      > Battlefield of Antietam, containing many vintage (turn of 20th century)
                      > photographs.
                      >
                      > Very respectfully,
                      > G E "Gerry" Mayers
                      > Confederate Signal Corps,
                      > Longstreet's Corps
                      >
                    • G E Mayers
                      Stephen, Did you get the postcards? If not, email me privately and I will send what I have. Very respectfully, G E Gerry Mayers Confederate Signal Corps,
                      Message 10 of 22 , Apr 7, 2005
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                        Stephen,

                        Did you get the postcards? If not, email me privately and I will send what I
                        have.

                        Very respectfully,
                        G E "Gerry" Mayers
                        Confederate Signal Corps,
                        Longstreet's Corps



                        ----- Original Message -----
                        From: "Stephen Recker" <recker@...>
                        To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                        Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2005 10:44 AM
                        Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Bloody Lane structures


                        > Gerry,
                        >
                        > Many thanks.
                        >
                        > Stephen
                        >
                        > On Thursday, April 7, 2005, at 10:18 AM, G E Mayers wrote:
                        >
                        >>
                        >> Dear Stephen,
                        >>
                        >> I believe at one point there was a little snack stand somewhere near
                        >> the
                        >> Bloody Lane. Also, one post War photo shows a two story building
                        >> abutting
                        >> the fence on the Piper Farm property.
                        >>
                        >> I will send you what postcards I have here on file so you can review.
                        >>
                        >> Also, next time you are at Antietam NBP VC bookstore, pick up a copy
                        >> of The
                        >> Battlefield of Antietam, containing many vintage (turn of 20th century)
                        >> photographs.
                        >>
                        >> Very respectfully,
                        >> G E "Gerry" Mayers
                        >> Confederate Signal Corps,
                        >> Longstreet's Corps
                        >>
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                        > Yahoo! Groups Links
                        >
                        > a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
                        > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TalkAntietam/
                        >
                        > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                        > TalkAntietam-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                        >
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                      • Thomas Clemens
                        That makes sense, no poles or wires in any Garner photos. We were on the verge of a fund-raising project to do that when Allegany Power went into financial
                        Message 11 of 22 , Apr 7, 2005
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                          That makes sense, no poles or wires in any Garner photos. We were on
                          the verge of a fund-raising project to do that when Allegany Power went
                          into financial turmoil and pulled out of the project. John Howard has
                          some funds allocated in a few years, and I would LOVE to start a
                          public/private match to fund their removal. It is pricey, about 1K per
                          foot! But worth every penny.
                          Would be very cool.
                          Tom Clemens

                          >>> recker@... 4/7/2005 10:03:33 AM >>>

                          Tom,

                          Actually, I was no doubt thinking of the photos I have seen from later

                          in that century. I know of no accounts of telegraph lines being there
                          at the time of the battle.

                          I agree it would be money well spent removing those phone lines. I have

                          spent many hours airbrushing them out of photos.

                          Stephen




                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • Thomas Clemens
                          I don t know of photos, but remember the building. It sat amonst the trees in front ofthe 130th PA monument. It was log cabin, and they had a big stink about
                          Message 12 of 22 , Apr 7, 2005
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                            I don't know of photos, but remember the building. It sat amonst the
                            trees in front ofthe 130th PA monument. It was log cabin, and they had
                            a big stink about whether it was original or not to the battle. (Some
                            folks in Sharpsburg started a rumor it was there at the time.) It came
                            down in the late 70's I think. There was another house adjacent to the
                            Dunker Church that shared the same fate.
                            Tom C

                            >>> recker@... 4/7/2005 10:07:39 AM >>>

                            I recently bought a postcard with a view of Bloody Lane when there was

                            a superintendent's house and a store on it. This was a surprise to me.

                            I had read the stories in the park history book about the drunk,
                            gun-wielding super that lived there, but hadn't seen a photo of his
                            house. And I was certaily unaware of a store on the lane.

                            Does anyone know of any close-up photos of those buildings or know when

                            they were taken down? In the background of the postcard I can see what

                            I believe is the VC being built. Thanks.

                            Stephen Recker







                            Yahoo! Groups Links
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                            TalkAntietam-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                            Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.




                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • G E Mayers
                            Tom Maybe The DOG, CWPT and other organizations might be willing to help. Very respectfully, G E Gerry Mayers Confederate Signal Corps, Longstreet s Corps
                            Message 13 of 22 , Apr 7, 2005
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                              Tom

                              Maybe The DOG, CWPT and other organizations might be willing to help.

                              Very respectfully,
                              G E "Gerry" Mayers
                              Confederate Signal Corps,
                              Longstreet's Corps



                              ----- Original Message -----
                              From: "Thomas Clemens" <clemenst@...>
                              To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                              Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2005 12:27 PM
                              Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Hagerstown Fence


                              > That makes sense, no poles or wires in any Garner photos. We were on
                              > the verge of a fund-raising project to do that when Allegany Power went
                              > into financial turmoil and pulled out of the project. John Howard has
                              > some funds allocated in a few years, and I would LOVE to start a
                              > public/private match to fund their removal. It is pricey, about 1K per
                              > foot! But worth every penny.
                              > Would be very cool.
                              > Tom Clemens
                              >
                              >>>> recker@... 4/7/2005 10:03:33 AM >>>
                              >
                              > Tom,
                              >
                              > Actually, I was no doubt thinking of the photos I have seen from later
                              >
                              > in that century. I know of no accounts of telegraph lines being there
                              > at the time of the battle.
                              >
                              > I agree it would be money well spent removing those phone lines. I have
                              >
                              > spent many hours airbrushing them out of photos.
                              >
                              > Stephen
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                              > Yahoo! Groups Links
                              >
                              > a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
                              > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TalkAntietam/
                              >
                              > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                              > TalkAntietam-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                              >
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                              >
                              >
                            • rotbaron@aol.com
                              Gerry, If you can email me the postcards, I d love to see them. Tom Shay ... From: G E Mayers To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thu,
                              Message 14 of 22 , Apr 7, 2005
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                                Gerry,
                                If you can email me the postcards, I'd love to see them.
                                Tom Shay

                                -----Original Message-----
                                From: G E Mayers <gerry1952@...>
                                To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                                Sent: Thu, 7 Apr 2005 10:49:49 -0400
                                Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Bloody Lane structures



                                Stephen,

                                Did you get the postcards? If not, email me privately and I will send what I
                                have.

                                Very respectfully,
                                G E "Gerry" Mayers
                                Confederate Signal Corps,
                                Longstreet's Corps



                                ----- Original Message -----
                                From: "Stephen Recker" <recker@...>
                                To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                                Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2005 10:44 AM
                                Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Bloody Lane structures


                                > Gerry,
                                >
                                > Many thanks.
                                >
                                > Stephen
                                >
                                > On Thursday, April 7, 2005, at 10:18 AM, G E Mayers wrote:
                                >
                                >>
                                >> Dear Stephen,
                                >>
                                >> I believe at one point there was a little snack stand somewhere near
                                >> the
                                >> Bloody Lane. Also, one post War photo shows a two story building
                                >> abutting
                                >> the fence on the Piper Farm property.
                                >>
                                >> I will send you what postcards I have here on file so you can review.
                                >>
                                >> Also, next time you are at Antietam NBP VC bookstore, pick up a copy
                                >> of The
                                >> Battlefield of Antietam, containing many vintage (turn of 20th century)
                                >> photographs.
                                >>
                                >> Very respectfully,
                                >> G E "Gerry" Mayers
                                >> Confederate Signal Corps,
                                >> Longstreet's Corps
                                >>
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                >
                                > a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TalkAntietam/
                                >
                                > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                > TalkAntietam-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                >
                                > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
                                >
                                >






                                Yahoo! Groups Links






                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              • G E Mayers
                                Tom, I think I might have found them on the NPS site. I will probably privately email them. They are turn of the century stuff though, so they are interesting
                                Message 15 of 22 , Apr 7, 2005
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                                  Tom,

                                  I think I might have found them on the NPS site. I will probably privately
                                  email them.

                                  They are turn of the century stuff though, so they are interesting from that
                                  viewpoint.

                                  Very respectfully,
                                  G E "Gerry" Mayers
                                  Confederate Signal Corps,
                                  Longstreet's Corps



                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                  From: <rotbaron@...>
                                  To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                                  Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2005 3:18 PM
                                  Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Bloody Lane structures


                                  > Gerry,
                                  > If you can email me the postcards, I'd love to see them.
                                  > Tom Shay
                                  >
                                  > -----Original Message-----
                                  > From: G E Mayers <gerry1952@...>
                                  > To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                                  > Sent: Thu, 7 Apr 2005 10:49:49 -0400
                                  > Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Bloody Lane structures
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > Stephen,
                                  >
                                  > Did you get the postcards? If not, email me privately and I will send what
                                  > I
                                  > have.
                                  >
                                  > Very respectfully,
                                  > G E "Gerry" Mayers
                                  > Confederate Signal Corps,
                                  > Longstreet's Corps
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > ----- Original Message -----
                                  > From: "Stephen Recker" <recker@...>
                                  > To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                                  > Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2005 10:44 AM
                                  > Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Bloody Lane structures
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >> Gerry,
                                  >>
                                  >> Many thanks.
                                  >>
                                  >> Stephen
                                  >>
                                  >> On Thursday, April 7, 2005, at 10:18 AM, G E Mayers wrote:
                                  >>
                                  >>>
                                  >>> Dear Stephen,
                                  >>>
                                  >>> I believe at one point there was a little snack stand somewhere near
                                  >>> the
                                  >>> Bloody Lane. Also, one post War photo shows a two story building
                                  >>> abutting
                                  >>> the fence on the Piper Farm property.
                                  >>>
                                  >>> I will send you what postcards I have here on file so you can review.
                                  >>>
                                  >>> Also, next time you are at Antietam NBP VC bookstore, pick up a copy
                                  >>> of The
                                  >>> Battlefield of Antietam, containing many vintage (turn of 20th century)
                                  >>> photographs.
                                  >>>
                                  >>> Very respectfully,
                                  >>> G E "Gerry" Mayers
                                  >>> Confederate Signal Corps,
                                  >>> Longstreet's Corps
                                  >>>
                                  >>
                                  >>
                                  >>
                                  >>
                                  >>
                                  >>
                                  >>
                                  >>
                                  >> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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                                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
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                                • Stephen Recker
                                  Are you talking about these? http://www.nps.gov/anti/postcards/Postcards.htm Stephen
                                  Message 16 of 22 , Apr 7, 2005
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                                    Are you talking about these?

                                    http://www.nps.gov/anti/postcards/Postcards.htm

                                    Stephen


                                    On Thursday, April 7, 2005, at 03:21 PM, G E Mayers wrote:

                                    >
                                    > Tom,
                                    >
                                    > I think I might have found them on the NPS site. I will probably
                                    > privately
                                    > email them.
                                    >
                                    > They are turn of the century stuff though, so they are interesting
                                    > from that
                                    > viewpoint.
                                    >
                                    > Very respectfully,
                                    > G E "Gerry" Mayers
                                    > Confederate Signal Corps,
                                    > Longstreet's Corps
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > ----- Original Message -----
                                    > From: <rotbaron@...>
                                    > To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                                    > Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2005 3:18 PM
                                    > Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Bloody Lane structures
                                    >
                                    >
                                  • dickeyr46
                                    I m new to the group, but have been watching and reading for some time. Please excuse my lengthy post, but your comment about telegraph lines peaked my
                                    Message 17 of 22 , Apr 7, 2005
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      I'm new to the group, but have been watching and reading for some
                                      time. Please excuse my lengthy post, but your comment about telegraph
                                      lines peaked my interest enough to join.

                                      Several of Gardner's photos show telegraph poles, but none along
                                      Hagerstown Pike, which I believe was the focal point of the original
                                      comment. The wire is even visible in a few of the photos.

                                      Several photos taken at the Middle Bridge show 3 telegraph poles. The
                                      wire is visible in at least two. Catalog #583 is probably the best...
                                      You can clearly see a pole at both banks of the creek at the south
                                      side bridge wings. A third pole is visible in front of the Newcomer
                                      house, this one on the north side of the road. I used high resolution
                                      copies of the photo from the Library of Congress website. With a
                                      little magnification, you can see the insulators on the poles and the
                                      glint of sunlight from the wire that traces it from pole to pole. #610
                                      is almost as good. Again you can see the three poles and the wire
                                      emerging from behind the house roof in the right foreground to the
                                      eastern most pole.

                                      While Gardner's #582 focuses on the Newcomer mill, the house appears
                                      in the left background with the pole clearly visible to its front.
                                      #607 also shows the poles. The series of four Gardner took from the
                                      west bank (# 572, 578, etc.) show the pole on the east bank above the
                                      abutment.

                                      Two of Gardner's photos taken in town show poles and wire. The photo
                                      of the Lutheran Church, #596, shows the pole about midway between the
                                      church and the first house to the right. It is on the bank of the
                                      road, next to the picket fence. With some magnification, the wire is
                                      visible on both sides of the pole.

                                      The pole is not as easily picked out in #595 looking west down Main
                                      Street, but it is there on the south side of the street. The right
                                      side of this stereo is sharper. What had always seemed a hairline
                                      crack or flaw in the plate is the wire… funny how that "flaw" seemed
                                      to be on both halves of the stereo. Gardner must have been just a
                                      little left of dead center under the wire when he took this one.
                                      Looking just a little left of center at the top of the photo, a thin
                                      black line moves down and to the left and ends at the pole. That's our
                                      wire.

                                      When was the telegraph put in? I don't know. Since all of the Middle
                                      Bridge photos were made on Sept 22 and the 2 town photos were made on
                                      Sept 21 or 22, McClellan had already moved his HQ from the Pry house
                                      to west of town. Perhaps the telegraph was put in to support the new
                                      location. Or, perhaps the telegraph had run from
                                      Boonsboro-Keedysville-Sharpsburg all along.

                                      --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, Stephen Recker <recker@v...> wrote:
                                      > Tom,
                                      >
                                      > Actually, I was no doubt thinking of the photos I have seen from later
                                      > in that century. I know of no accounts of telegraph lines being there
                                      > at the time of the battle.
                                      >
                                    • G E Mayers
                                      Yes, I think so! But also, there is a booklet you should still be able to purchase at Antietam NBP VC bookstore, which O C Reilly might originally been the
                                      Message 18 of 22 , Apr 7, 2005
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                                        Yes, I think so!

                                        But also, there is a booklet you should still be able to purchase at
                                        Antietam NBP VC bookstore, which O C Reilly might originally been the
                                        publisher of. Very interesting pictures.

                                        Very respectfully,
                                        G E "Gerry" Mayers
                                        Confederate Signal Corps,
                                        Longstreet's Corps



                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                        From: "Stephen Recker" <recker@...>
                                        To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                                        Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2005 4:22 PM
                                        Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Bloody Lane structures


                                        > Are you talking about these?
                                        >
                                        > http://www.nps.gov/anti/postcards/Postcards.htm
                                        >
                                        > Stephen
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > On Thursday, April 7, 2005, at 03:21 PM, G E Mayers wrote:
                                        >
                                        >>
                                        >> Tom,
                                        >>
                                        >> I think I might have found them on the NPS site. I will probably
                                        >> privately
                                        >> email them.
                                        >>
                                        >> They are turn of the century stuff though, so they are interesting
                                        >> from that
                                        >> viewpoint.
                                        >>
                                        >> Very respectfully,
                                        >> G E "Gerry" Mayers
                                        >> Confederate Signal Corps,
                                        >> Longstreet's Corps
                                        >>
                                        >>
                                        >>
                                        >> ----- Original Message -----
                                        >> From: <rotbaron@...>
                                        >> To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                                        >> Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2005 3:18 PM
                                        >> Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Bloody Lane structures
                                        >>
                                        >>
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                        > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                        >
                                        > a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                        > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TalkAntietam/
                                        >
                                        > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                        > TalkAntietam-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                        >
                                        > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
                                        >
                                        >
                                      • Stephen Recker
                                        This is really interesting. Thanks. Stephen
                                        Message 19 of 22 , Apr 7, 2005
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                                          This is really interesting. Thanks.

                                          Stephen

                                          On Thursday, April 7, 2005, at 04:58 PM, dickeyr46 wrote:

                                          >
                                          >
                                          > I'm new to the group, but have been watching and reading for some
                                          > time. Please excuse my lengthy post, but your comment about telegraph
                                          > lines peaked my interest enough to join.
                                          >
                                          > Several of Gardner's photos show telegraph poles, but none along
                                          > Hagerstown Pike, which I believe was the focal point of the original
                                          > comment. The wire is even visible in a few of the photos.
                                          >
                                          > Several photos taken at the Middle Bridge show 3 telegraph poles. The
                                          > wire is visible in at least two. Catalog #583 is probably the best...
                                          > You can clearly see a pole at both banks of the creek at the south
                                          > side bridge wings. A third pole is visible in front of the Newcomer
                                          > house, this one on the north side of the road. I used high resolution
                                          > copies of the photo from the Library of Congress website. With a
                                          > little magnification, you can see the insulators on the poles and the
                                          > glint of sunlight from the wire that traces it from pole to pole. #610
                                          > is almost as good. Again you can see the three poles and the wire
                                          > emerging from behind the house roof in the right foreground to the
                                          > eastern most pole.
                                          >
                                          > While Gardner's #582 focuses on the Newcomer mill, the house appears
                                          > in the left background with the pole clearly visible to its front.
                                          > #607 also shows the poles. The series of four Gardner took from the
                                          > west bank (# 572, 578, etc.) show the pole on the east bank above the
                                          > abutment.
                                          >
                                          > Two of Gardner's photos taken in town show poles and wire. The photo
                                          > of the Lutheran Church, #596, shows the pole about midway between the
                                          > church and the first house to the right. It is on the bank of the
                                          > road, next to the picket fence. With some magnification, the wire is
                                          > visible on both sides of the pole.
                                          >
                                          > The pole is not as easily picked out in #595 looking west down Main
                                          > Street, but it is there on the south side of the street. The right
                                          > side of this stereo is sharper. What had always seemed a hairline
                                          > crack or flaw in the plate is the wire… funny how that "flaw" seemed
                                          > to be on both halves of the stereo. Gardner must have been just a
                                          > little left of dead center under the wire when he took this one.
                                          > Looking just a little left of center at the top of the photo, a thin
                                          > black line moves down and to the left and ends at the pole. That's our
                                          > wire.
                                          >
                                          > When was the telegraph put in? I don't know. Since all of the Middle
                                          > Bridge photos were made on Sept 22 and the 2 town photos were made on
                                          > Sept 21 or 22, McClellan had already moved his HQ from the Pry house
                                          > to west of town. Perhaps the telegraph was put in to support the new
                                          > location. Or, perhaps the telegraph had run from
                                          > Boonsboro-Keedysville-Sharpsburg all along.
                                          >
                                          > --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, Stephen Recker <recker@v...>
                                          > wrote:
                                          >> Tom,
                                          >>
                                          >> Actually, I was no doubt thinking of the photos I have seen from later
                                          >> in that century. I know of no accounts of telegraph lines being there
                                          >> at the time of the battle.
                                          >>
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                        • richard@rcroker.com
                                          I LOVE the Bloody Lane photo! No tower, no monuments, no access road. It probably looks just like it did on September 15, 1862, back when it was called (I am
                                          Message 20 of 22 , Apr 8, 2005
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                                            I LOVE the Bloody Lane photo! No tower, no monuments, no access road. It
                                            probably looks just like it did on September 15, 1862, back when it was
                                            called (I am told) "Hog Trough Road."

                                            Richard Croker
                                            www.rcroker.com


                                            ----- Original Message -----
                                            From: "Stephen Recker" <recker@...>
                                            To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                                            Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2005 4:22 PM
                                            Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Bloody Lane structures


                                            >
                                            > Are you talking about these?
                                            >
                                            > http://www.nps.gov/anti/postcards/Postcards.htm
                                            >
                                            > Stephen
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > On Thursday, April 7, 2005, at 03:21 PM, G E Mayers wrote:
                                            >
                                            > >
                                            > > Tom,
                                            > >
                                            > > I think I might have found them on the NPS site. I will probably
                                            > > privately
                                            > > email them.
                                            > >
                                            > > They are turn of the century stuff though, so they are interesting
                                            > > from that
                                            > > viewpoint.
                                            > >
                                            > > Very respectfully,
                                            > > G E "Gerry" Mayers
                                            > > Confederate Signal Corps,
                                            > > Longstreet's Corps
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > > ----- Original Message -----
                                            > > From: <rotbaron@...>
                                            > > To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                                            > > Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2005 3:18 PM
                                            > > Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Bloody Lane structures
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                          • G E Mayers
                                            Dear Richard, The tower was put at its present site back in 1898, IIRC, by the War Dept. I think the view of the Bloody Lane did not go all the way up to the
                                            Message 21 of 22 , Apr 8, 2005
                                            • 0 Attachment
                                              Dear Richard,

                                              The tower was put at its present site back in 1898, IIRC, by the War Dept. I
                                              think the view of the Bloody Lane did not go all the way up to the Tower or
                                              else the photo for the postcard was taken from the Tower.

                                              Very respectfully,
                                              G E "Gerry" Mayers
                                              Confederate Signal Corps,
                                              Longstreet's Corps



                                              ----- Original Message -----
                                              From: <richard@...>
                                              To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                                              Sent: Friday, April 08, 2005 7:01 AM
                                              Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Bloody Lane structures


                                              >I LOVE the Bloody Lane photo! No tower, no monuments, no access road. It
                                              > probably looks just like it did on September 15, 1862, back when it was
                                              > called (I am told) "Hog Trough Road."
                                              >
                                              > Richard Croker
                                              > www.rcroker.com
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > ----- Original Message -----
                                              > From: "Stephen Recker" <recker@...>
                                              > To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                                              > Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2005 4:22 PM
                                              > Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Bloody Lane structures
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >>
                                              >> Are you talking about these?
                                              >>
                                              >> http://www.nps.gov/anti/postcards/Postcards.htm
                                              >>
                                              >> Stephen
                                              >>
                                              >>
                                              >> On Thursday, April 7, 2005, at 03:21 PM, G E Mayers wrote:
                                              >>
                                              >> >
                                              >> > Tom,
                                              >> >
                                              >> > I think I might have found them on the NPS site. I will probably
                                              >> > privately
                                              >> > email them.
                                              >> >
                                              >> > They are turn of the century stuff though, so they are interesting
                                              >> > from that
                                              >> > viewpoint.
                                              >> >
                                              >> > Very respectfully,
                                              >> > G E "Gerry" Mayers
                                              >> > Confederate Signal Corps,
                                              >> > Longstreet's Corps
                                              >> >
                                              >> >
                                              >> >
                                              >> > ----- Original Message -----
                                              >> > From: <rotbaron@...>
                                              >> > To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                                              >> > Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2005 3:18 PM
                                              >> > Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Bloody Lane structures
                                              >> >
                                              >> >
                                              >>
                                              >>
                                              >>
                                              >>
                                              >>
                                              >>
                                              >> Yahoo! Groups Links
                                              >>
                                              >>
                                              >>
                                              >>
                                              >>
                                              >>
                                              >>
                                              >>
                                              >>
                                              >>
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                              > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                              >
                                              > a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                              > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TalkAntietam/
                                              >
                                              > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                              > TalkAntietam-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                              >
                                              > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
                                              >
                                              >
                                            • Thomas Clemens
                                              Thanks, I had not thought of those photos when we were talking about these lines. I am not sure when that line went in, but will look into it. Thomas G.
                                              Message 22 of 22 , Apr 8, 2005
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                                                Thanks, I had not thought of those photos when we were talking about these lines. I am not sure when that line went in, but will look into it.


                                                Thomas G. Clemens D.A.
                                                Professor of History
                                                Hagerstown Community College



                                                >>> dickeyr46@... 4/7/2005 4:58:20 PM >>>


                                                I'm new to the group, but have been watching and reading for some
                                                time. Please excuse my lengthy post, but your comment about telegraph
                                                lines peaked my interest enough to join.

                                                Several of Gardner's photos show telegraph poles, but none along
                                                Hagerstown Pike, which I believe was the focal point of the original
                                                comment. The wire is even visible in a few of the photos.

                                                Several photos taken at the Middle Bridge show 3 telegraph poles. The
                                                wire is visible in at least two. Catalog #583 is probably the best...
                                                You can clearly see a pole at both banks of the creek at the south
                                                side bridge wings. A third pole is visible in front of the Newcomer
                                                house, this one on the north side of the road. I used high resolution
                                                copies of the photo from the Library of Congress website. With a
                                                little magnification, you can see the insulators on the poles and the
                                                glint of sunlight from the wire that traces it from pole to pole. #610
                                                is almost as good. Again you can see the three poles and the wire
                                                emerging from behind the house roof in the right foreground to the
                                                eastern most pole.

                                                While Gardner's #582 focuses on the Newcomer mill, the house appears
                                                in the left background with the pole clearly visible to its front.
                                                #607 also shows the poles. The series of four Gardner took from the
                                                west bank (# 572, 578, etc.) show the pole on the east bank above the
                                                abutment.

                                                Two of Gardner's photos taken in town show poles and wire. The photo
                                                of the Lutheran Church, #596, shows the pole about midway between the
                                                church and the first house to the right. It is on the bank of the
                                                road, next to the picket fence. With some magnification, the wire is
                                                visible on both sides of the pole.

                                                The pole is not as easily picked out in #595 looking west down Main
                                                Street, but it is there on the south side of the street. The right
                                                side of this stereo is sharper. What had always seemed a hairline
                                                crack or flaw in the plate is the wire* funny how that "flaw" seemed
                                                to be on both halves of the stereo. Gardner must have been just a
                                                little left of dead center under the wire when he took this one.
                                                Looking just a little left of center at the top of the photo, a thin
                                                black line moves down and to the left and ends at the pole. That's our
                                                wire.

                                                When was the telegraph put in? I don't know. Since all of the Middle
                                                Bridge photos were made on Sept 22 and the 2 town photos were made on
                                                Sept 21 or 22, McClellan had already moved his HQ from the Pry house
                                                to west of town. Perhaps the telegraph was put in to support the new
                                                location. Or, perhaps the telegraph had run from
                                                Boonsboro-Keedysville-Sharpsburg all along.

                                                --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, Stephen Recker <recker@v...> wrote:
                                                > Tom,
                                                >
                                                > Actually, I was no doubt thinking of the photos I have seen from later
                                                > in that century. I know of no accounts of telegraph lines being there
                                                > at the time of the battle.
                                                >










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