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Re: [TalkAntietam] Questions about Antietam

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  • NJ Rebel
    Dear Tom, Good questions.... See some of my thoughts below......... I remain, Your Humble and Obdt. Servant, G. E. Gerry Mayers Corporal, Confederate Signal
    Message 1 of 6 , Sep 17, 2004
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      Dear Tom,

      Good questions.... See some of my thoughts below.........

      I remain,
      Your Humble and Obdt. Servant,
      G. E. "Gerry" Mayers
      Corporal,
      Confederate Signal Corps,
      Longstreet's Corps

      "It is Well that WAR is so Terrible;
      else we shall grow too fond of it."
      --Robert E. Lee

      ----- Original Message -----
      From: <rotbaron@...>
      To: <talkantietam@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Friday, September 17, 2004 8:48 PM
      Subject: [TalkAntietam] Questions about Antietam


      > Here are a few of the many questions about Antietam that I still ponder....
      >
      > Exactly what is the story with AP Hill's men wearing blue? Did a few or many
      > rebs wear blue or is this merely the stuff of legend only?

      I think some of this might be legend, but it is clearly true that some of A P Hill's men did indeed wezr blue on that day.

      >
      > Did AP Hll's men actually display the US Flag (Stars & Stripes)?
      >

      Good question. But I think to do so would be to risk being fired upon by their own men as they came up......

      > Did right flank of Irish Brigade reach Roulette Lane? Did their left flank go
      > beyond the Tower?

      I think this one depends on who you read and talk to. I am inclined to believe the right flank of the Irish Brigade did indeed reach the lane, if not very close to it. As to whether the left flank went beyond the Tower, I do not know. Some writers claim the brigade actually conformed itself to the bend in the road at the spot where the Tower now stands. Other say the left flank of the Brigade extended about three quarters down the Sunken Road from the Roulette Lane..........

      >
      > Did Caldwell truly hide behind haystack? How was his conduct that day?

      Hard to tell if Caldwell truly did show the yellow feather on that day. But it is pretty clear that Richardson was not amused by Caldwell's behavior, or so some say.

      >
      > Were a significant number of Rebs actually in The Cornfield as Hooker's dawn
      > attack began?

      What is a significant number? From what I have read, it appears (IIR) that Lawton's men were the ones hidden in the corn as Hooker's lead brigades came up.

      >
      > When did Burnside finally revert back to command of IX Corps and not Right
      > Wing?

      Did he ever revert back to command of the IX Corps during the battle?
      >
      > Some books really emphasize a counterattack by Rodes that reached near the
      > Roulette Farm. Just how serious was this attack?

      If you mean the counterattack which went across the Mumma fields (roughly the area just to the east of the present day Visitor Center (looking at the Visitor Center from today's parking lot), IIRC it came pretty close. Again, IIRC, this counterattach was pretty easily shunted aside. OTOH, the attack by Irwin's brigade on the Union side was also chewed up pretty bad (this at about 1 to 2 pm IIRC).

      >
      > Tom Shay
      >
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
    • richard@rcroker.com
      My information is that the blue unis were contraband from Harpers Ferry. As for Burnside, Sept 16 Hooker s Corps, I Corps I think, was removed from his wing
      Message 2 of 6 , Sep 17, 2004
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        My information is that the blue unis were contraband from Harpers Ferry.

        As for Burnside, Sept 16 Hooker's Corps, I Corps I think, was removed from
        his wing and Hooker given independent command. Burnside was not demoted,
        but was left to command a "wing" that had only one Corps in it. This is why
        Cox remained in command of the Corps -- because Burnside continued to view
        himself as a wing commander. This explanation sounds a little jumbled, but
        it all makes perfectly good sense considering old Sideburns frame of mind.

        ----- Original Message -----
        From: "NJ Rebel" <gerry1952@...>
        To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Friday, September 17, 2004 9:31 PM
        Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Questions about Antietam


        > Dear Tom,
        >
        >
        >
        > Good questions.... See some of my thoughts below.........
        >
        >
        >
        > I remain,
        >
        > Your Humble and Obdt. Servant,
        >
        > G. E. "Gerry" Mayers
        >
        > Corporal,
        >
        > Confederate Signal Corps,
        >
        > Longstreet's Corps
        >
        >
        >
        > "It is Well that WAR is so Terrible;
        >
        > else we shall grow too fond of it."
        >
        > --Robert E. Lee
        >
        >
        >
        > ----- Original Message -----
        >
        > From: <rotbaron@...>
        >
        > To: <talkantietam@yahoogroups.com>
        >
        > Sent: Friday, September 17, 2004 8:48 PM
        >
        > Subject: [TalkAntietam] Questions about Antietam
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > > Here are a few of the many questions about Antietam that I still
        ponder....
        >
        > >
        >
        > > Exactly what is the story with AP Hill's men wearing blue? Did a few or
        many
        >
        > > rebs wear blue or is this merely the stuff of legend only?
        >
        >
        >
        > I think some of this might be legend, but it is clearly true that some of
        A P Hill's men did indeed wezr blue on that day.
        >
        >
        >
        > >
        >
        > > Did AP Hll's men actually display the US Flag (Stars & Stripes)?
        >
        > >
        >
        >
        >
        > Good question. But I think to do so would be to risk being fired upon by
        their own men as they came up......
        >
        >
        >
        > > Did right flank of Irish Brigade reach Roulette Lane? Did their left
        flank go
        >
        > > beyond the Tower?
        >
        >
        >
        > I think this one depends on who you read and talk to. I am inclined to
        believe the right flank of the Irish Brigade did indeed reach the lane, if
        not very close to it. As to whether the left flank went beyond the Tower, I
        do not know. Some writers claim the brigade actually conformed itself to the
        bend in the road at the spot where the Tower now stands. Other say the left
        flank of the Brigade extended about three quarters down the Sunken Road from
        the Roulette Lane..........
        >
        >
        >
        > >
        >
        > > Did Caldwell truly hide behind haystack? How was his conduct that day?
        >
        >
        >
        > Hard to tell if Caldwell truly did show the yellow feather on that day.
        But it is pretty clear that Richardson was not amused by Caldwell's
        behavior, or so some say.
        >
        >
        >
        > >
        >
        > > Were a significant number of Rebs actually in The Cornfield as Hooker's
        dawn
        >
        > > attack began?
        >
        >
        >
        > What is a significant number? From what I have read, it appears (IIR) that
        Lawton's men were the ones hidden in the corn as Hooker's lead brigades came
        up.
        >
        >
        >
        > >
        >
        > > When did Burnside finally revert back to command of IX Corps and not
        Right
        >
        > > Wing?
        >
        >
        >
        > Did he ever revert back to command of the IX Corps during the battle?
        >
        > >
        >
        > > Some books really emphasize a counterattack by Rodes that reached near
        the
        >
        > > Roulette Farm. Just how serious was this attack?
        >
        >
        >
        > If you mean the counterattack which went across the Mumma fields (roughly
        the area just to the east of the present day Visitor Center (looking at the
        Visitor Center from today's parking lot), IIRC it came pretty close. Again,
        IIRC, this counterattach was pretty easily shunted aside. OTOH, the attack
        by Irwin's brigade on the Union side was also chewed up pretty bad (this at
        about 1 to 2 pm IIRC).
        >
        >
        >
        > >
        >
        > > Tom Shay
        >
        > >
        >
        > >
        >
        > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
        > >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
      • rotbaron@aol.com
        Gerry, My further comments to your responses are in caps below (except Carman in lower case): ============================== Q: Did AP Hll s men actually
        Message 3 of 6 , Sep 17, 2004
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          Gerry,

          My further comments to your responses are in caps below (except Carman in
          lower case):

          ==============================
          Q: Did AP Hll's men actually display the US Flag (Stars & Stripes)?
          Good question. But I think to do so would be to risk being fired upon by
          their own men as they came up......

          LT. COL.CURTIS OF 4TH RI DESCRIBES: "AS THE ENEMY SHOWED THE NATIONAL FLAG
          [STARS AND STRIPES]..." Source: Murfin's The Gleam of Bayonets Pg 284

          ==============================
          Q: Were a significant number of Rebs actually in The Cornfield as Hooker's
          dawn attack began?
          What is a significant number? From what I have read, it appears (IIR) that
          Lawton's men were the ones hidden in the corn as Hooker's lead brigades came up.

          LAWTON'S DIVISION FORMED ON JONES' EXTREME RIGHT WITH HIS OWN AND TRIMBLE'S
          BRIGADES TO THE EXTREME RIGHT ASTRIDE THE SMOKETOWN ROAD FACING A NORTHEASTERLY
          DIRECTION."

          CARMAN NOTES AS FOLLOWS:

          Lawton's Brigade, commanded by Colonel Marcellus Douglass, 13th Georgia, had
          six Georgia regiments--the 13th, 26th, 31st, 38th, 60th, and 61st--numbering
          1150 men. When first in position, and until the battle had fairly opened, the
          left of the brigade was about 120 yards east of the Hagerstown road, and the
          three left regiments--the 26th, 38th, and 61st, in order named from left to
          right-- from 225 to 230 yards south of the Miller cornfield and practically
          parallel to it; the right wing of the brigade was refused and faced northeast. The
          31st Georgia was thrown to the front and left of the right wing, and to within
          120 yards of the, its right about 100 yards from the East Woods fence. When
          taking position, during the night of the 16th, two companies of the 31st, under
          command of Lieutenant W.H. Harrison, were advanced as pickets 50 feet into the
          corn, their right at the edge of the East Woods, their left extending to the
          Hagerstown road. Before daybreak of the 17th Harrison inadvertently stumbled
          upon the Union picket line, a few shots were fired, Harrison was captured, and
          his pickets were withdrawn from the corn and formed along its south border.
          The ground held by the brigade was somewhat lower than the cornfield, and, in
          nearly its entire length, was covered by low stone ledges, and small
          protuberances, which afforded some protection and, in places, a rail fence was thrown
          down and piled as a breastwork. In other places there was no protection, either
          of rock-ledge, inequality of the ground, or fence rails, but as the action
          progressed and the line rapidly thinned, those exposed positions were abandoned
          for the sheltered ones.

          ==============================
          Q: Some books really emphasize a counterattack by Rodes that reached near the
          Roulette Farm. Just how serious was this attack?

          WHEN RODES' UNIDENTIFIED TROOPS (TWO BRIGADES) REACHED THE ROULETTE FARM...
          Source: Murfin's The Gleam of Bayonets Pg 256

          Tom Shay


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • NJ Rebel
          Dear Tom, I was going strictly from memory....... thanks. I remain, Your Humble and Obdt. Servant, G. E. Gerry Mayers Corporal, Confederate Signal Corps,
          Message 4 of 6 , Sep 18, 2004
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            Dear Tom,

            I was going strictly from memory....... thanks.
            I remain,
            Your Humble and Obdt. Servant,
            G. E. "Gerry" Mayers
            Corporal,
            Confederate Signal Corps,
            Longstreet's Corps

            "It is Well that WAR is so Terrible;
            else we shall grow too fond of it."
            --Robert E. Lee

            ----- Original Message -----
            From: <rotbaron@...>
            To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Friday, September 17, 2004 10:17 PM
            Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam] Questions about Antietam


            > Gerry,
            >
            > My further comments to your responses are in caps below (except Carman in
            > lower case):
            >
            > ==============================
            > Q: Did AP Hll's men actually display the US Flag (Stars & Stripes)?
            > Good question. But I think to do so would be to risk being fired upon by
            > their own men as they came up......
            >
            > LT. COL.CURTIS OF 4TH RI DESCRIBES: "AS THE ENEMY SHOWED THE NATIONAL FLAG
            > [STARS AND STRIPES]..." Source: Murfin's The Gleam of Bayonets Pg 284
            >
            > ==============================
            > Q: Were a significant number of Rebs actually in The Cornfield as Hooker's
            > dawn attack began?
            > What is a significant number? From what I have read, it appears (IIR) that
            > Lawton's men were the ones hidden in the corn as Hooker's lead brigades came up.
            >
            > LAWTON'S DIVISION FORMED ON JONES' EXTREME RIGHT WITH HIS OWN AND TRIMBLE'S
            > BRIGADES TO THE EXTREME RIGHT ASTRIDE THE SMOKETOWN ROAD FACING A NORTHEASTERLY
            > DIRECTION."
            >
            > CARMAN NOTES AS FOLLOWS:
            >
            > Lawton's Brigade, commanded by Colonel Marcellus Douglass, 13th Georgia, had
            > six Georgia regiments--the 13th, 26th, 31st, 38th, 60th, and 61st--numbering
            > 1150 men. When first in position, and until the battle had fairly opened, the
            > left of the brigade was about 120 yards east of the Hagerstown road, and the
            > three left regiments--the 26th, 38th, and 61st, in order named from left to
            > right-- from 225 to 230 yards south of the Miller cornfield and practically
            > parallel to it; the right wing of the brigade was refused and faced northeast. The
            > 31st Georgia was thrown to the front and left of the right wing, and to within
            > 120 yards of the, its right about 100 yards from the East Woods fence. When
            > taking position, during the night of the 16th, two companies of the 31st, under
            > command of Lieutenant W.H. Harrison, were advanced as pickets 50 feet into the
            > corn, their right at the edge of the East Woods, their left extending to the
            > Hagerstown road. Before daybreak of the 17th Harrison inadvertently stumbled
            > upon the Union picket line, a few shots were fired, Harrison was captured, and
            > his pickets were withdrawn from the corn and formed along its south border.
            > The ground held by the brigade was somewhat lower than the cornfield, and, in
            > nearly its entire length, was covered by low stone ledges, and small
            > protuberances, which afforded some protection and, in places, a rail fence was thrown
            > down and piled as a breastwork. In other places there was no protection, either
            > of rock-ledge, inequality of the ground, or fence rails, but as the action
            > progressed and the line rapidly thinned, those exposed positions were abandoned
            > for the sheltered ones.
            >
            > ==============================
            > Q: Some books really emphasize a counterattack by Rodes that reached near the
            > Roulette Farm. Just how serious was this attack?
            >
            > WHEN RODES' UNIDENTIFIED TROOPS (TWO BRIGADES) REACHED THE ROULETTE FARM...
            > Source: Murfin's The Gleam of Bayonets Pg 256
            >
            > Tom Shay
            >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
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          • Bud Wilkinson
            One of Tom s questions concerns whether the right flank of the Irish Brigade reached as far as Roulette Lane. I don t believe that it did. It is my
            Message 5 of 6 , Sep 18, 2004
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              One of Tom's questions concerns whether the right flank of the Irish
              Brigade reached as far as Roulette Lane. I don't believe that it did.

              It is my understanding that the Irish Brigade came in on the left of the
              8th Ohio. The 8th was situated with it's right flank anchored at Roulette
              Lane. In "The Valiant Hours" by Thomas Galwey(Stackpole, 1961) he twice
              mentions that the Irish Brigade moves in on the left of the 8th. At the
              time, Galwey was a Sgt. in Co. B of the 8th OVI. Both his statements and
              his drawn map indicate the position of the 8th at the Lane.

              Galwey was an Irish born resident of Cleveland at the time of the
              war. Most of the men in Co. B of the 8th were of Irish birth or
              heritage. These men apparently had a great relationship with those in the
              Irish Brigade.

              The Valiant Hours is a great read, but also a bit hard to find. I haven't
              read my copy about 5 years, so I guess it's about time to dust it off read
              it again for the 4th time.

              Bud Wilkinson
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