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Re: [TalkAntietam]

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  • Tim Reese
    You re more than welcome, Mary. GBM was indeed on the move that day, at least until he reached Frederick. The overwhelming outpouring of relief and welcome
    Message 1 of 2 , Jul 11, 2004
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      You're more than welcome, Mary. GBM was indeed on the move that day, at least until he reached Frederick. The overwhelming outpouring of relief and welcome from the citizenry no doubt compelled him to opt for an HQ outside of town to avoid being inundated. I'm trying to determine where exactly.

      Throughout his literary career Sears has played fast and loose with source citation, hence consistent errors. The Gettysburg book was no better nor worse than those preceding. Dimitri Rotov (The Civil War Bookshelf website) accurately characterizes him as a "mass-market storyteller." I must concur. In a November email exchange he pleaded that he is not an academic historian. In reply I retorted that neither am I, but we can endeavor to get our facts straight. It's called intellectual honesty.

      A common excuse for GBM's protracted length of time in studying/reacting to the Lost Order is the purported distance between where it was found and where his HQ were. See http://home.earthlink.net/~tjreesecg/id3.html for the former. As circumstances become more clear GBM's locale would shed further light on the sequence of events in consideration of time frame.

      Truth is that thanks to Sears, and others of his ilk, the Md. campaign has been grossly misunderstood in many key respects. Storytellers naturally need a protagonist and antagonist around which to build their stories. GBM obviously and routinely serves as the latter, a whipping boy to blame for campaign happenstance. Complex questions deserve more than simplistic answers. In time the whole picture will look far different than what we've been led to believe.

      Now, if I could only pinpoint his HQ of the 13th...

      Tim
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: Mary Hawthorne
      To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: 7/11/2004 6:47:11 PM
      Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam]


      Thanks Tim. After I wrote that reply I thought to myself that you may have
      wanted a specific location like a house or what ever. This may sound kind of
      funny knowing GBM, but could the lack of a specific locale be because he was
      on the move? As for Sears, I hear his one on Gettysburg is loaded with
      mistakes. I am relatively new in studying positions of troops and really
      need to get the perspective of other historians as well. As to the study of
      where the order was found, yes that is intriguing!
      Mary
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: "Tim Reese" <tjreesecg@...>
      To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Sunday, July 11, 2004 6:28 PM
      Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam]


      > Hi Mary,
      >
      > Thanks for the input. The Lincoln telegram you refer to was not sent
      almost immediately after McClellan received the Lost Order. It was in fact
      sent twelve hours later at midnight. See
      http://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/P?mal:7:./temp/~ammem_D8Mf:: for digital
      photo of original document. Also see AotW article at
      http://aotw.org/exhibit.php?exhibit_id=358 for corrected 9/13 scenario. All
      too often Sears is inexcusably sloppy with his sources, this being a salient
      example.
      >
      > We know GBM established HQ outside Frederick on the 13th, but where? It is
      my hope that someone out there knows of an obscure reference citing a
      specific locale: house, farm or whatever. This established, one can then
      measure the distance between that and the order's point of discovery at the
      southeast edge of town. Intriguing, don't you think?
      >
      > Tim
      > ----- Original Message -----
      > From: Mary Hawthorne
      > To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
      > Sent: 7/11/2004 5:53:19 PM
      > Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam]
      >
      >
      > According to Stephen Sears in "Landscape Turned Red" oh page 113,
      MacCellan
      > replied to Lincoln about a previous communication from Frederick, MD. His
      > reply to Lincoln was almost immediately after receiving the "lost order"
      > Mary
      > ----- Original Message -----
      > From: "Tim Reese" <tjreesecg@...>
      > To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
      > Sent: Sunday, July 11, 2004 5:24 PM
      > Subject: [TalkAntietam]
      >
      >
      > > Here's a brain teaser for all you devotees. Where were McClellan's
      > headquarters located on Saturday, September 13, 1862, the day he acquired
      > the "Lost Order"? The general had moved toward Frederick, MD via the
      > National Turnpike and was conversing with several businessmen of that city
      > when the order was brought to him. I don't claim to know the locale. Maybe
      > someone out there does.
      > >
      > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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    • Jeff Beckner (PWC Magazine)
      Except that Mac s reputation had already been establish long before Sears birth, of course. Which doesn t excuse, of course, any sloppiness on Sears part,
      Message 2 of 2 , Jul 12, 2004
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        Except that Mac's reputation had already been establish long before
        Sears' birth, of course.

        Which doesn't excuse, of course, any sloppiness on Sears' part, but it's
        not like he created some myth about Little Mac.

        -----Original Message-----
        From: Tim Reese [mailto:tjreesecg@...]
        Sent: Sunday, July 11, 2004 6:11 PM
        To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam]

        You're more than welcome, Mary. GBM was indeed on the move that day, at
        least until he reached Frederick. The overwhelming outpouring of relief
        and welcome from the citizenry no doubt compelled him to opt for an HQ
        outside of town to avoid being inundated. I'm trying to determine where
        exactly.

        Throughout his literary career Sears has played fast and loose with
        source citation, hence consistent errors. The Gettysburg book was no
        better nor worse than those preceding. Dimitri Rotov (The Civil War
        Bookshelf website) accurately characterizes him as a "mass-market
        storyteller." I must concur. In a November email exchange he pleaded
        that he is not an academic historian. In reply I retorted that neither
        am I, but we can endeavor to get our facts straight. It's called
        intellectual honesty.

        A common excuse for GBM's protracted length of time in studying/reacting
        to the Lost Order is the purported distance between where it was found
        and where his HQ were. See http://home.earthlink.net/~tjreesecg/id3.html
        for the former. As circumstances become more clear GBM's locale would
        shed further light on the sequence of events in consideration of time
        frame.

        Truth is that thanks to Sears, and others of his ilk, the Md. campaign
        has been grossly misunderstood in many key respects. Storytellers
        naturally need a protagonist and antagonist around which to build their
        stories. GBM obviously and routinely serves as the latter, a whipping
        boy to blame for campaign happenstance. Complex questions deserve more
        than simplistic answers. In time the whole picture will look far
        different than what we've been led to believe.

        Now, if I could only pinpoint his HQ of the 13th...

        Tim
        ----- Original Message -----
        From: Mary Hawthorne
        To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: 7/11/2004 6:47:11 PM
        Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam]


        Thanks Tim. After I wrote that reply I thought to myself that you may
        have
        wanted a specific location like a house or what ever. This may sound
        kind of
        funny knowing GBM, but could the lack of a specific locale be because he
        was
        on the move? As for Sears, I hear his one on Gettysburg is loaded with
        mistakes. I am relatively new in studying positions of troops and really
        need to get the perspective of other historians as well. As to the study
        of
        where the order was found, yes that is intriguing!
        Mary
        ----- Original Message -----
        From: "Tim Reese" <tjreesecg@...>
        To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Sunday, July 11, 2004 6:28 PM
        Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam]


        > Hi Mary,
        >
        > Thanks for the input. The Lincoln telegram you refer to was not sent
        almost immediately after McClellan received the Lost Order. It was in
        fact
        sent twelve hours later at midnight. See
        http://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/P?mal:7:./temp/~ammem_D8Mf:: for
        digital
        photo of original document. Also see AotW article at
        http://aotw.org/exhibit.php?exhibit_id=358 for corrected 9/13 scenario.
        All
        too often Sears is inexcusably sloppy with his sources, this being a
        salient
        example.
        >
        > We know GBM established HQ outside Frederick on the 13th, but where?
        It is
        my hope that someone out there knows of an obscure reference citing a
        specific locale: house, farm or whatever. This established, one can then
        measure the distance between that and the order's point of discovery at
        the
        southeast edge of town. Intriguing, don't you think?
        >
        > Tim
        > ----- Original Message -----
        > From: Mary Hawthorne
        > To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
        > Sent: 7/11/2004 5:53:19 PM
        > Subject: Re: [TalkAntietam]
        >
        >
        > According to Stephen Sears in "Landscape Turned Red" oh page 113,
        MacCellan
        > replied to Lincoln about a previous communication from Frederick, MD.
        His
        > reply to Lincoln was almost immediately after receiving the "lost
        order"
        > Mary
        > ----- Original Message -----
        > From: "Tim Reese" <tjreesecg@...>
        > To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
        > Sent: Sunday, July 11, 2004 5:24 PM
        > Subject: [TalkAntietam]
        >
        >
        > > Here's a brain teaser for all you devotees. Where were McClellan's
        > headquarters located on Saturday, September 13, 1862, the day he
        acquired
        > the "Lost Order"? The general had moved toward Frederick, MD via the
        > National Turnpike and was conversing with several businessmen of that
        city
        > when the order was brought to him. I don't claim to know the locale.
        Maybe
        > someone out there does.
        > >
        > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > Yahoo! Groups Links
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
        > ADVERTISEMENT
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        > To visit your group on the web, go to:
        > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TalkAntietam/
        >
        > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
        > TalkAntietam-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
        >
        > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >








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