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Interrogating a witness tree

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  • Brian Morris
    Found this website recently that purports to show witness trees to certain Civil War battles. Some I know are correct such as the Baltimore St. Sycamores and
    Message 1 of 9 , Jun 30, 2004
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      Found this website recently that purports to show witness trees to certain
      Civil War battles. Some I know are correct such as the Baltimore St.
      Sycamores and Locust tree in the Cemetery in Gettysburg but the website also
      makes claims about the White Oaks at the Copse of Trees which I know are not
      old enough to be witness trees.
      http://www.bivouacbooks.com/bbv2i1s4.htm

      For the Antietam Battlefirld they show a picture of the Sycamore that sits
      alongside the Burnside Bridge and then show a picture taken shortly after
      the battle that shows a tree in that same area. OK, I'm not a big tree
      expert here but I've stood next to that tree by the Burnside Bridge and it
      does not strike me as a 140+ year old tree. Just because there was a tree in
      that general location in 1862 doesn't make the one there in 2004 the very
      same tree.

      Is that tree next to the bridge a witness tree or do we have someone jumping
      to conclusions here based off of two trees being in a similar area 140 years
      apart?

      Brian
    • Brian Morris
      I might be wrong on that. Looking at the pictures that I took of the bridge and that tree from my trip last April, the tree definately looks much older than I
      Message 2 of 9 , Jun 30, 2004
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        I might be wrong on that. Looking at the pictures that I took of the bridge
        and that tree from my trip last April, the tree definately looks much older
        than I remember and how it looks in the photo on the website.

        Brian

        > Found this website recently that purports to show witness trees to certain
        > Civil War battles. Some I know are correct such as the Baltimore St.
        > Sycamores and Locust tree in the Cemetery in Gettysburg but the website
        also
        > makes claims about the White Oaks at the Copse of Trees which I know are
        not
        > old enough to be witness trees.
        > http://www.bivouacbooks.com/bbv2i1s4.htm
        >
        > For the Antietam Battlefirld they show a picture of the Sycamore that sits
        > alongside the Burnside Bridge and then show a picture taken shortly after
        > the battle that shows a tree in that same area. OK, I'm not a big tree
        > expert here but I've stood next to that tree by the Burnside Bridge and it
        > does not strike me as a 140+ year old tree. Just because there was a tree
        in
        > that general location in 1862 doesn't make the one there in 2004 the very
        > same tree.
        >
        > Is that tree next to the bridge a witness tree or do we have someone
        jumping
        > to conclusions here based off of two trees being in a similar area 140
        years
        > apart?
        >
        > Brian
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
      • tjrhys62
        Hi Brian, Looks like the Burnside s Bridge sycamore may very well be a witness tree, judging by specs found at http://www.2020site.org/trees/sycamore.html Have
        Message 3 of 9 , Jun 30, 2004
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          Hi Brian,

          Looks like the Burnside's Bridge sycamore may very well be a witness
          tree, judging by specs found at
          http://www.2020site.org/trees/sycamore.html Have a look.

          However, documenting such things seems impossible aside from locale.
          The tree depicted in the postwar (Forbes?) engraving, compared to
          current size and breadth, strongly suggests a logical growth
          progession.

          Suffice it to say that odds are more in favor of it being the real
          thing. If it could only talk... despite recent injury.

          Tim

          --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, "Brian Morris"
          <ironbrigade@k...> wrote:
          > Found this website recently that purports to show witness trees to
          certain
          > Civil War battles. Some I know are correct such as the Baltimore
          St.
          > Sycamores and Locust tree in the Cemetery in Gettysburg but the
          website also
          > makes claims about the White Oaks at the Copse of Trees which I
          know are not
          > old enough to be witness trees.
          > http://www.bivouacbooks.com/bbv2i1s4.htm
          >
          > For the Antietam Battlefirld they show a picture of the Sycamore
          that sits
          > alongside the Burnside Bridge and then show a picture taken
          shortly after
          > the battle that shows a tree in that same area. OK, I'm not a big
          tree
          > expert here but I've stood next to that tree by the Burnside
          Bridge and it
          > does not strike me as a 140+ year old tree. Just because there was
          a tree in
          > that general location in 1862 doesn't make the one there in 2004
          the very
          > same tree.
          >
          > Is that tree next to the bridge a witness tree or do we have
          someone jumping
          > to conclusions here based off of two trees being in a similar area
          140 years
          > apart?
          >
          > Brian
        • Brian Morris
          Here s a better and closer picture of the tree. This is a section cut out of one of the pictures I took of the bridge (I take high resolution pictures and then
          Message 4 of 9 , Jun 30, 2004
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            Here's a better and closer picture of the tree. This is a section cut out of
            one of the pictures I took of the bridge (I take high resolution pictures
            and then resize them down later) in April.
            http://www.kswader.com/judi/civilwar/witnesstree.jpg

            As you can see, the tree looks much older than it does in any of the other
            pictures. I'm tending to think this one could very well be a witness tree
            now that I'm looking at these pictures I took with the tree in them.

            Brian



            > Hi Brian,
            >
            > Looks like the Burnside's Bridge sycamore may very well be a witness
            > tree, judging by specs found at
            > http://www.2020site.org/trees/sycamore.html Have a look.
            >
            > However, documenting such things seems impossible aside from locale.
            > The tree depicted in the postwar (Forbes?) engraving, compared to
            > current size and breadth, strongly suggests a logical growth
            > progession.
            >
            > Suffice it to say that odds are more in favor of it being the real
            > thing. If it could only talk... despite recent injury.
            >
            > Tim
            >
            > --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, "Brian Morris"
            > <ironbrigade@k...> wrote:
            > > Found this website recently that purports to show witness trees to
            > certain
            > > Civil War battles. Some I know are correct such as the Baltimore
            > St.
            > > Sycamores and Locust tree in the Cemetery in Gettysburg but the
            > website also
            > > makes claims about the White Oaks at the Copse of Trees which I
            > know are not
            > > old enough to be witness trees.
            > > http://www.bivouacbooks.com/bbv2i1s4.htm
            > >
            > > For the Antietam Battlefirld they show a picture of the Sycamore
            > that sits
            > > alongside the Burnside Bridge and then show a picture taken
            > shortly after
            > > the battle that shows a tree in that same area. OK, I'm not a big
            > tree
            > > expert here but I've stood next to that tree by the Burnside
            > Bridge and it
            > > does not strike me as a 140+ year old tree. Just because there was
            > a tree in
            > > that general location in 1862 doesn't make the one there in 2004
            > the very
            > > same tree.
            > >
            > > Is that tree next to the bridge a witness tree or do we have
            > someone jumping
            > > to conclusions here based off of two trees being in a similar area
            > 140 years
            > > apart?
            > >
            > > Brian
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
          • tjrhys62
            I think you have a winner. Next time I m over there (15 minutes away) I ll take a closer look. Tim ... cut out of ... pictures ... the other ... witness tree
            Message 5 of 9 , Jun 30, 2004
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              I think you have a winner. Next time I'm over there (15 minutes
              away) I'll take a closer look.

              Tim

              --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, "Brian Morris"
              <ironbrigade@k...> wrote:
              > Here's a better and closer picture of the tree. This is a section
              cut out of
              > one of the pictures I took of the bridge (I take high resolution
              pictures
              > and then resize them down later) in April.
              > http://www.kswader.com/judi/civilwar/witnesstree.jpg
              >
              > As you can see, the tree looks much older than it does in any of
              the other
              > pictures. I'm tending to think this one could very well be a
              witness tree
              > now that I'm looking at these pictures I took with the tree in
              them.
              >
              > Brian
              >
              >
              >
              > > Hi Brian,
              > >
              > > Looks like the Burnside's Bridge sycamore may very well be a
              witness
              > > tree, judging by specs found at
              > > http://www.2020site.org/trees/sycamore.html Have a look.
              > >
              > > However, documenting such things seems impossible aside from
              locale.
              > > The tree depicted in the postwar (Forbes?) engraving, compared to
              > > current size and breadth, strongly suggests a logical growth
              > > progession.
              > >
              > > Suffice it to say that odds are more in favor of it being the
              real
              > > thing. If it could only talk... despite recent injury.
              > >
              > > Tim
              > >
              > > --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, "Brian Morris"
              > > <ironbrigade@k...> wrote:
              > > > Found this website recently that purports to show witness
              trees to
              > > certain
              > > > Civil War battles. Some I know are correct such as the
              Baltimore
              > > St.
              > > > Sycamores and Locust tree in the Cemetery in Gettysburg but the
              > > website also
              > > > makes claims about the White Oaks at the Copse of Trees which I
              > > know are not
              > > > old enough to be witness trees.
              > > > http://www.bivouacbooks.com/bbv2i1s4.htm
              > > >
              > > > For the Antietam Battlefirld they show a picture of the
              Sycamore
              > > that sits
              > > > alongside the Burnside Bridge and then show a picture taken
              > > shortly after
              > > > the battle that shows a tree in that same area. OK, I'm not a
              big
              > > tree
              > > > expert here but I've stood next to that tree by the Burnside
              > > Bridge and it
              > > > does not strike me as a 140+ year old tree. Just because there
              was
              > > a tree in
              > > > that general location in 1862 doesn't make the one there in
              2004
              > > the very
              > > > same tree.
              > > >
              > > > Is that tree next to the bridge a witness tree or do we have
              > > someone jumping
              > > > to conclusions here based off of two trees being in a similar
              area
              > > 140 years
              > > > apart?
              > > >
              > > > Brian
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > Yahoo! Groups Links
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
            • Rawlings, Kevin
              Tim and Brian, It is a witness tree as it has been in (a tree witness protection program, haha, could not resist)a historic tree program (I can t recall the
              Message 6 of 9 , Jun 30, 2004
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                Tim and Brian,

                It is a witness tree as it has been in (a tree witness protection program,
                haha, could not resist)a historic tree program (I can't recall the proper
                name right off the bat, but I was working for the Civil War Trust at the
                time.)that they have made seedlings from. Some years back I was involved in
                a promotional picture with Tom Clemens and Tom Lively as Union and
                Confederate soldiers planting a new "cloned" tree for this historical tree
                prgram that also featured treelings from other historic sites, civil war and
                earlier eras. I have a flier from that program buried in my files somewhere.

                Kevin Rawlings

                -----Original Message-----
                From: tjrhys62 [mailto:tjreesecg@...]
                Sent: Wednesday, June 30, 2004 3:25 PM
                To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Interrogating a witness tree


                I think you have a winner. Next time I'm over there (15 minutes
                away) I'll take a closer look.

                Tim

                --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, "Brian Morris"
                <ironbrigade@k...> wrote:
                > Here's a better and closer picture of the tree. This is a section
                cut out of
                > one of the pictures I took of the bridge (I take high resolution
                pictures
                > and then resize them down later) in April.
                > http://www.kswader.com/judi/civilwar/witnesstree.jpg
                >
                > As you can see, the tree looks much older than it does in any of
                the other
                > pictures. I'm tending to think this one could very well be a
                witness tree
                > now that I'm looking at these pictures I took with the tree in
                them.
                >
                > Brian
                >
                >
                >
                > > Hi Brian,
                > >
                > > Looks like the Burnside's Bridge sycamore may very well be a
                witness
                > > tree, judging by specs found at
                > > http://www.2020site.org/trees/sycamore.html Have a look.
                > >
                > > However, documenting such things seems impossible aside from
                locale.
                > > The tree depicted in the postwar (Forbes?) engraving, compared to
                > > current size and breadth, strongly suggests a logical growth
                > > progession.
                > >
                > > Suffice it to say that odds are more in favor of it being the
                real
                > > thing. If it could only talk... despite recent injury.
                > >
                > > Tim
                > >
                > > --- In TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com, "Brian Morris"
                > > <ironbrigade@k...> wrote:
                > > > Found this website recently that purports to show witness
                trees to
                > > certain
                > > > Civil War battles. Some I know are correct such as the
                Baltimore
                > > St.
                > > > Sycamores and Locust tree in the Cemetery in Gettysburg but the
                > > website also
                > > > makes claims about the White Oaks at the Copse of Trees which I
                > > know are not
                > > > old enough to be witness trees.
                > > > http://www.bivouacbooks.com/bbv2i1s4.htm
                > > >
                > > > For the Antietam Battlefirld they show a picture of the
                Sycamore
                > > that sits
                > > > alongside the Burnside Bridge and then show a picture taken
                > > shortly after
                > > > the battle that shows a tree in that same area. OK, I'm not a
                big
                > > tree
                > > > expert here but I've stood next to that tree by the Burnside
                > > Bridge and it
                > > > does not strike me as a 140+ year old tree. Just because there
                was
                > > a tree in
                > > > that general location in 1862 doesn't make the one there in
                2004
                > > the very
                > > > same tree.
                > > >
                > > > Is that tree next to the bridge a witness tree or do we have
                > > someone jumping
                > > > to conclusions here based off of two trees being in a similar
                area
                > > 140 years
                > > > apart?
                > > >
                > > > Brian
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >






                Yahoo! Groups Links
              • James Madison
                Thanks for the information guys. I ll be there next week somtime and be sure to give that tree a little more attention. Outside of the general topography of
                Message 7 of 9 , Jun 30, 2004
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                  Thanks for the information guys. I'll be there next week somtime and
                  be sure to give that tree a little more attention. Outside of the
                  general topography of the of the battle grounds are their any other
                  significent natural features that remain?
                • robert blama
                  That is the same tree A tree 140 yrs old does not have to be that big ... From: Brian Morris To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, June 30, 2004
                  Message 8 of 9 , Jun 30, 2004
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                    That is the same tree A tree 140 yrs old does not have to be that big
                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: Brian Morris
                    To: TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Wednesday, June 30, 2004 2:33 PM
                    Subject: [TalkAntietam] Interrogating a witness tree


                    Found this website recently that purports to show witness trees to certain
                    Civil War battles. Some I know are correct such as the Baltimore St.
                    Sycamores and Locust tree in the Cemetery in Gettysburg but the website also
                    makes claims about the White Oaks at the Copse of Trees which I know are not
                    old enough to be witness trees.
                    http://www.bivouacbooks.com/bbv2i1s4.htm

                    For the Antietam Battlefirld they show a picture of the Sycamore that sits
                    alongside the Burnside Bridge and then show a picture taken shortly after
                    the battle that shows a tree in that same area. OK, I'm not a big tree
                    expert here but I've stood next to that tree by the Burnside Bridge and it
                    does not strike me as a 140+ year old tree. Just because there was a tree in
                    that general location in 1862 doesn't make the one there in 2004 the very
                    same tree.

                    Is that tree next to the bridge a witness tree or do we have someone jumping
                    to conclusions here based off of two trees being in a similar area 140 years
                    apart?

                    Brian







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                  • richard@rcroker.com
                    Speaking of witness trees -- I live close the the Kennesaw Mountain National Battlefield Park where they tell you to look high in the trees and you can see odd
                    Message 9 of 9 , Jun 30, 2004
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                      Speaking of witness trees -- I live close the the Kennesaw Mountain National
                      Battlefield Park where they tell you to look high in the trees and you can
                      see odd branching -- where it has split into four or five limbs where you
                      might only expect to see two. They say that the deformity is a result of
                      being struck by cannon fire at a very young age.

                      Richard Croker
                      ----- Original Message -----
                      From: "James Madison" <jamesmadison_1999@...>
                      To: <TalkAntietam@yahoogroups.com>
                      Sent: Wednesday, June 30, 2004 4:05 PM
                      Subject: [TalkAntietam] Re: Interrogating a witness tree


                      > Thanks for the information guys. I'll be there next week somtime and
                      > be sure to give that tree a little more attention. Outside of the
                      > general topography of the of the battle grounds are their any other
                      > significent natural features that remain?
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Yahoo! Groups Links
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
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